The Role of the Woman

[CeileDe]

Yeah you are right I apologize for the sarcasm.

 

[Misty77]

Anyone saying how women "get everything" in a divorce is crap. THOSE women are the ones who filed first and got good attorneys while their husbands tried to represent themselves in court. If a man gets the attorney and the wife represents herself, then SHE is going to get screwed over.

It all comes down to the attorneys, and the legal world is a "boys club" except in some progressive pockets. Any objection that soon-to-be-ex-wives have is chalked up to being "emotional mothers"; and abuse allegations are rarely, if ever, believed.

Of course every state has different laws, and each county has different dynamics within their courts so we can find stories backing up either side.

I'll agree that an abused man is almost always going to get shafted, and anyone who decides not to get an attorney in divorce proceedings is going to get steamrolled in court. And single moms garner more sympathy from charitable organizations, but we are also more targeted in hate-filled tirades as seductresses out to destroy innocent men's lives and wallets.

The truth is that divorced and single moms are more likely to end up in poverty while men are more able to quickly recover as though they never lost anything. Women usually end up bearing the brunt of the child rearing. Sure, about 19% of the men's salary will go to child support; but they get a free pass for the time, energy, and emotional cost it takes to raise that child. They also get to have less cost-of-living expenses, not worry about the commute to day care or the cost of baby-sitters if they want to do something other than work and go home, and generally have more free time for relaxation and self-improvement. All of the monetary and physical toll of that extra room, electricity, food, gas, wear-and-tear on the car, time spent doing homework, trips to the doctor/dentist/tutor/barber, keeping the kid in clothes that fit and are clean, and incessant reminders to brush hair/teeth or finish homework/chores--it adds up beyond what the 19% covers. And in Texas at least, there is a cap on that 19% so if the ex husband earns real money, it's not shared with his kid.

My kid and I are stuck with debt that his dad racked up. We lived paycheck to paycheck until I had to quit working 9 to 5 to address my son's learning issues. We live in home that I am grateful for but needs a lot of repairs and in a neighborhood that we'll call "ghetto-adjacent." His dad is debt free, lives in a gorgeous big house, and won't pay for a dime over child support. Any clothes or gifts that he buys for my kid aren't allowed to come home with him. He has replaced us with a new wife and a new kid in a new house in an upper class neighborhood. If this is a feminist system, it's a pretty bad one.

 

[Misty77]

What's actually happening, in reality, Misty is that older women, who waited for all the reasons you listed, are increasingly going at motherhood alone because men increasingly are choosing not to marry them.

"The birth rate among older, single moms has reached a record high — even as the overall births for unmarried women in the United States has declined.

Researchers noted that the overall birth rate among single moms in the country is gradually declining after peaking in the last 2000s.

At the same time, there has been a sharp 48 percent increase over the past decade in the birth rate for unwed women between the ages of 35 to 39: For every 1,000 single women aged 35 to 39, there were 31 births in 2012 compared to 21 births in 2002. Among moms ages 40 to 44, the rate increased 29 percent over the past five years, to 7 per 1,000 births in 2012."

CDC Brief: Products - Data Briefs - Number 152 - May 2014

Men are not attracted to entering into a legal contract that renders them powerless and carries potentially devastating consequences up to and including incarceration in the nation's penal system so they can live with a feminist who's already been with scores of men and now is ready to "settle down."

So, these older women are going out and deliberately getting pregnant to have a child outside of marriage before their fertility clock stops.

You are looking at stats that include women who aren't the believers that you would potentially be marrying. You are talking about the culture at large. I was addressing the women who are in the church who want a bio family in the more traditional sense.

 

[Utah]

[h=1]Willie Carson of Houston, Texas has had his wages garnished for some 13 years because he was erroneously included on a girl's birth certificate[/h]

• The girl's mother has now written to authorities and now Carson's 401K is no longer frozen and he no longer must pay child support
• However, Texas law requires Carson must still pay his $21,000 unpaid support and any interest accrued after the termination date

Read more: DNA proves man isn't girl's father but he must pay support anyway | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Misty77]

Willie Carson of Houston, Texas has had his wages garnished for some 13 years because he was erroneously included on a girl's birth certificate

• The girl's mother has now written to authorities and now Carson's 401K is no longer frozen and he no longer must pay child support
• However, Texas law requires Carson must still pay his $21,000 unpaid support and any interest accrued after the termination date

Read more: DNA proves man isn't girl's father but he must pay support anyway | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

That's an example of the Office of the Attorney General being poorly run and inefficient. I can guarantee you that just as many moms are being screwed over as dads are. It took 6 months for them to finally process our new orders last year. I spent several days on the phone, a couple of days in their offices, and eventually called random people at the exes employer until I found someone to process the withholding order for us (no exaggeration). Basically, I had to do their job for them.

 

[JFSurvivor]

Honestly who cares who's being screwed over more? How hard is it to see women not as submissive little housewives but as equal warriors of Christ? Yes this is a mans world in society but so what?? Women are equal in Christ. Isn't that how God would want women to be treated??

 

[Misty77]

Honestly who cares who's being screwed over more? How hard is it to see women not as submissive little housewives but as equal warriors of Christ? Yes this is a mans world in society but so what?? Women are equal in Christ. Isn't that how God would want women to be treated??

I completely agree, but be careful that you don't burn out trying to change minds that aren't willing to budge.

 

[psychomom]

Misty, i just wanted to tell you i'm sorry for your situation.

it's hard for me to see it as a 'men v women' thing, though.

to me, it looks more like typical human greed and selfishness---sin.
both genders are all too good at those traits.

 

[ember]

No I do not believe I am. Your response, generates this:Thank you for standing up for me here. And the problem with that response, is that it indicates a personal attack when none was made. cmarieh does not want to have an actual discussion...she would like to simply accept and then defend the op which is indefensable

It does not matter what her feelings are...neither God nor the devil are going to care...now God cares about her personally, but He will not allow His word to be twisted to mean something it does not mean no matter who feels bad or wants to use it as an excuse

Ok 1) you're being a little harsh. I can understand you saying this to someone with thicker skin but from what I have seen she's not that great with words and she seems a little sensitive (that was just the impression I got) so consider your audience. You can say the same thing in a completely different way.


2) I see what you are saying about submission and I agree with you but like I said, consider your audience. You will be much more effective if you do.

Cmariah,

Submission does not mean you don't get a voice. I think it's admirable that you submit yourself to everyone but don't hurt yourself or think badly of yourself in the process. If you feel called to submit to everyone go for it but please do so in a healthy manner.

Also don't let your future spouse make ALL the decisions by himself. Not only is that not fair to you but that puts a MASSIVE burden on him. If he decides not to take it seriously you could be in real trouble. If he does take it seriously he could easily get worn out from the constant pressure and anxiety. Yes, men have feelings too. They also get anxious. You have a brain so use it. I would suggest reading the book of Esther. She used her brain and was very blessed for it. You can use yours too. Now don't be like "my way or the highway" but you can be like "I'm sorry I don't agree with you. let's work to come to a decision we BOTH agree on." There's a thread in the family forum called "listening time" that I think would do you good.

JF...you appear to be doing one on one counselling here...which is fine and appropriate IMO...but this is a general thread for anyone here to reply in..and I am actually still writing with regard to the op..I am not picking on someone or taking feelings into disregard.

 

[CeileDe]

I completely agree, but be careful that you don't burn out trying to change minds that aren't willing to budge.

I agree. Christians have been debating this for years and all it causes is bitterness. It is best to just leave it alone.

 

[JFSurvivor]

I completely agree, but be careful that you don't burn out trying to change minds that aren't willing to budge.

Thanks!

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

What's harsh and extreme is blaming me for another person's feelings. Am I responsible for everything anyone I meet feels? No. Am I responsible for the behavior of everyone I know? No.

But do you blame men for everything a woman feels, thinks, and does (unless you consider it positive, of course, because you're hypocritical that way and exercise a double standard)? Apparently, yes you do.

My guess is that she has issues inside of her with being unmarried in our present married-centric Christian culture that have zero to do with me.

It may take two to tango but we did NOT tango rendering your idiom false.

Hey I know, using your logic, let's release all the criminals from prison because they aren't responsible for their criminal feelings and criminal behaviors. It's obviously someone else's fault.

It takes two to tango. What did you to make her fall in love with you? That was kinda harsh...

 

[JFSurvivor]

What's harsh and extreme is blaming me for another person's feelings. Am I responsible for everything anyone I meet feels? No. Am I responsible for the behavior of everyone I know? No.

But do you blame men for everything a woman feels, thinks, and does (unless you consider it positive, of course, because you're hypocritical that way and exercise a double standard)? Apparently, yes you do.

My guess is that she has issues inside of her with being unmarried in our present married-centric Christian culture that have zero to do with me.

It may take two to tango but we did NOT tango rendering your idiom false.

But you went immediately to blaming me for the feelings of another because I'm a man and she's a woman. How feminist of you. Hey I know, using your logic, let's release all the criminals from prison because they aren't responsible for their criminal feelings and criminal behaviors. It's obviously someone else's fault.

It's pretty extreme for a woman to be like "I love you! marry me!" and it takes A LOT to get to that point so you were either leading her on or you do not know ANYTHING about women.

 

[JFSurvivor]

explosion in 3...2...*grabs popcorn*...

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The people being severely screwed over care. Nobody said women were "submissive little housewives" in this thread except you. It's a feminist controlled society, you've got it completely backwards and I can prove it with empirical data (statistics, studies, etc...). Men and women have the same Imago Dei intrinsic value in or out of Christ but in Christ it is ultimately restored rendering it exponentially more valuable. I have yet to see you even allude to the treatment of men other than to blame them for everything you negatively perceive with respect to women both real and imagined.

Honestly who cares who's being screwed over more? How hard is it to see women not as submissive little housewives but as equal warriors of Christ? Yes this is a mans world in society but so what?? Women are equal in Christ. Isn't that how God would want women to be treated??

 

[Misty77]

Misty, i just wanted to tell you i'm sorry for your situation.

it's hard for me to see it as a 'men v women' thing, though.

to me, it looks more like typical human greed and selfishness---sin.
both genders are all too good at those traits.

It is definitely a "human" problem, but we can't ignore the part that gender dynamics play into this. We don't fit the stereotype since I am now "curvier" than he is. I don't fit the frail image of a victim, and the x is not a big man. Coming from Independent Fundamental Baptist churches (where he was a preacher), traditional gender roles very much defined our family. More conservative groups try to hold tightly to traditional gender roles even when they aren't working, and more progressive groups tend to ignore the legitimate differences and specific issues for each gender.

The very fact that I am female in a patriarchal subculture made me more susceptible to abuse and less likely to fight or leave than secular women. Because I don't fit the gender stereotype, I didn't garner the sympathy that society unconsciously gives tinier, quieter, frailer women. I was more at risk to be abused and less likely for it to be noticed.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

You just keep making false assertions. It's like you're a false assertion generator, and interestingly, they're all aimed at demonizing males and excusing females.

The answer is much less dramatic. She was just one member of a small group fellowship that I attended for a couple of years. I never held her hand, I never bought her a present, I never kissed her, I never promised her anything, etc... Sometimes I would give her a friendly hug and listen to her. That was all.

I live in a county with almost ten million people in which I'm surrounded by millions and millions of people all with their own thinking styles, beliefs, personalities, feelings, etc... and whom are at all sorts of stages in their life. All sorts of scenarios occur here.

Your assertions about me are false and I've corrected them. If you keep making false assertions about me in which you seek to blame me for the behaviors of others then I'm going to call you a liar for the simple fact that you will be lying.

It's pretty extreme for a woman to be like "I love you! marry me!" and it takes A LOT to get to that point so you were either leading her on or you do not know ANYTHING about women.

 

[JFSurvivor]

The people being severely screwed over care. Nobody said women were "submissive little housewives" in this thread except you. It's a feminist controlled society, you've got it completely backwards and I can prove it with empirical data (statistics, studies, etc...). Men and women have the same Imago Dei intrinsic value in or out of Christ but in Christ it is ultimately restored rendering it exponentially more valuable. I have yet to see you even allude to the treatment of men other than to blame them for everything you negatively perceive with respect to women both real and imagined.

1) have you ever needed an escort to go to a certian part of town for fear of men?

2) Have you been used or looked upon as an object for another mans sexual pleasures? Did it happen in public? Is it considered socially acceptable for them to do that?

3) have you ever been told that you're not as smart as the other sex?

4) have you ever had to choose between having a family and your career?

5) when was the last time you were told to be quiet? When was the last time you were called bossy?

6) have you ever felt ugly? Like repulsive? have you ever cried yourself to sleep at night because you believe a man will never love you?

7) have you ever been told that you're too emotional?

8) is your gender used as an insult?

9) when was the last time you heard a "man joke" or were "man shamed"

 

[Misty77]

JF and AoK:

It's becoming increasingly clear that you two come from very different backgrounds and from opposite genders, even different generations. Of course you are going to look at these issues from completely different angles and process the information using different criteria. As far as scriptural understanding, I don't think you are as far apart as you may seem to be.

But your experiences in your particular parts of our culture are nothing alike. I think we would do well to not make suppositions for each other since our social circles seem to not overlap.

 

[CeileDe]

1) have you ever needed an escort to go to a certian part of town for fear of men?

2) Have you been used or looked upon as an object for another mans sexual pleasures? Did it happen in public? Is it considered socially acceptable for them to do that?

3) have you ever been told that you're not as smart as the other sex?

4) have you ever had to choose between having a family and your career?

5) when was the last time you were told to be quiet? When was the last time you were called bossy?

6) have you ever felt ugly? Like repulsive? have you ever cried yourself to sleep at night because you believe a man will never love you?

7) have you ever been told that you're too emotional?

8) is your gender used as an insult?

9) when was the last time you heard a "man joke" or were "man shamed"

Wow, you are all full of bitterness? You do know God loves you right?