Spoken to a rebellious people who were offering sacrifices along with their disobedience. . .
Which laws are and are not valid?
- Thread starter Matthew4Jesus
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
This world is in such a mess because of one thing only--unbelief.
The law has been made void for justification/salvation, Christ is the reason and
that does not cause spiritual adultery.
More diversion of the NT gospel. . .
What harlot. . .the one caused by salvation by grace in Jesus Christ?
It is all rooted in simple unbelief in Jesus Christ.
There is a reason that we still have it written form for our understanding, and instruction in righteousness. If it wasn't important, do we actually believe that God would have preserved it with the rest of His holy Word? [/quote]
Yes, the law of God is the law of Christ for the new covenant (1Co 9:20-21; Mt 22:37-39; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8),
the observance of which fulfills all the law of God (Mt 22:40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).
It's not complicated. . .
Last edited:
Yes. . .when the word of God is "advocating". . .
Or when, in fact, they were not offering sacrifices in their disobedience when Samuel said this.
Your reason for objecting to the Scriptural facts? . . .you don't like context?
[FONT="]1Cor [/FONT][FONT="]4[/FONT]
[FONT="]1.[/FONT][FONT="] Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 2. Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 3. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 4. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 5. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 6. And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [to] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think [of men] above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 7. For who maketh thee to differ [from another]? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive [it], why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received [it]?[/FONT]
[FONT="] 8. Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 9. For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 10. We [are] fools for Christ's sake, but ye [are] wise in Christ; we [are] weak, but ye [are] strong; ye [are] honourable, but we [are] despised.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 11. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;[/FONT]
[FONT="] 12. And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:[/FONT]
[FONT="] 13. Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, [and are] the offscouring of all things unto this day.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 14. I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn [you].[/FONT]
[FONT="] 15. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 16. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 17. For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 18. Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 19. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 20. For the kingdom of God [is] not in word, but in power.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 21. What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and [in] the spirit of meekness?[/FONT]
[FONT="]1.[/FONT][FONT="] Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 2. Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 3. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 4. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 5. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 6. And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [to] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think [of men] above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 7. For who maketh thee to differ [from another]? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive [it], why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received [it]?[/FONT]
[FONT="] 8. Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 9. For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 10. We [are] fools for Christ's sake, but ye [are] wise in Christ; we [are] weak, but ye [are] strong; ye [are] honourable, but we [are] despised.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 11. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;[/FONT]
[FONT="] 12. And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:[/FONT]
[FONT="] 13. Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, [and are] the offscouring of all things unto this day.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 14. I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn [you].[/FONT]
[FONT="] 15. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 16. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 17. For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 18. Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 19. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 20. For the kingdom of God [is] not in word, but in power.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 21. What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and [in] the spirit of meekness?[/FONT]
You are not making any sense at all. I am afraid serious interaction with you is made impossible by your arguing words and meaning when the meaning is clear to any who know the Lord. Is it that you hate Jews? Just asking. Your attitude indicates you just may. Jesus was a Jew, and He is King of the Jews. He is my King. Does this translate as your hating mealso? I hope not. God bless you with pa more understanding heart and mind....amen.
What Samuel is saying is just as valid this moment as it ever has been. Do not dispute the Word of God. He is speaking to all of us.
What Samuel is saying is just as valid this moment as it ever has been. Do not dispute the Word of God. He is speaking to all of us.
The big difference in the validity of the law is whether we adhere to it by works without faith, or establish it by faith. Relating this to salvation, and growing in grace, is dependent upon our response to an Almighty God that cares for us and loves us. In either case the law doesn't disappear, but it is up to us how to properly utilize its instructions in righteousness by the Holy Spirit.
Are you one of those folksy believers who proudly declares,
"Hate sin, but love the sinner?"
I sure am.
It is a good clean feeling to be this way is it not?
Wait a minute! Sin is breaking the law!
I do hope if you make the declaration of hating sin, you ae not a law breaker, otherwise this would make you a hypo.......
Don't be that way. Hate sin, but love the sinner. Be a child of obedience. Do not be a child of disobedience as we all were before coming to Jesus Chrst.
I know this is ok because you hate sin, but love me! You see, unlike many believers, I know I am not yet perfected, and I hate sin, especially when I sin.
obey God. H elikes obedient children. I like obedient family...............
"Hate sin, but love the sinner?"
I sure am.
It is a good clean feeling to be this way is it not?
Wait a minute! Sin is breaking the law!
I do hope if you make the declaration of hating sin, you ae not a law breaker, otherwise this would make you a hypo.......
Don't be that way. Hate sin, but love the sinner. Be a child of obedience. Do not be a child of disobedience as we all were before coming to Jesus Chrst.
I know this is ok because you hate sin, but love me! You see, unlike many believers, I know I am not yet perfected, and I hate sin, especially when I sin.
obey God. H elikes obedient children. I like obedient family...............
Does subtle diversion of the NT gospel make one a Jew? . . .and I don't hate them, or anyone else--that's not my business, that's God's business.
That's called "playing the Jew (victim) card."
Agreed. . .Obedience is always better than sacrifices offered with disobedience.
Geeze, is this thread still going?
Read your Bibles, people!
Not one jot or tittle can pass until all is fulfilled.
Jesus said He came to fulfill.
Either He did, and jots and tittles did pass (sacrifices and any part of the Law requiring the Temple and priesthood), or He lied.
We can see that jots and tittles did pass (no Temple standing and no Levitical Priesthood practicing).
The Law, however, still stands to condemn those who do not keep it, pointing them to Christ and His Work, the only hope for righteousness apart from the Law (see entire letters to Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, Galatians, and Hebrews).
So while the Law is fading and will soon pass away (jots and tittles have passed, the remainder will pass at the end of the age), it still serves a purpose - to point unbelievers to Christ.
What about those in Christ?
We have died to the Law (see Rom. 7:4-6, Gal. 2:19-21).
Those in Christ have no relationship to or with the Law whatsoever - we're DEAD to it.
We approach God via a new and living way, a better way built on better promises, via a New, Perfect, and Permanent High Priest from a different tribe (Heb. chapters 7-10).
We are to be led by the Spirit and not by the Law, and the Spirit will not lead us into sin (Gal. 5).
That should be the end of the thread.
But I'm guessing it won't be . . .
-JGIG
Read your Bibles, people!
Not one jot or tittle can pass until all is fulfilled.
Jesus said He came to fulfill.
Either He did, and jots and tittles did pass (sacrifices and any part of the Law requiring the Temple and priesthood), or He lied.
We can see that jots and tittles did pass (no Temple standing and no Levitical Priesthood practicing).
The Law, however, still stands to condemn those who do not keep it, pointing them to Christ and His Work, the only hope for righteousness apart from the Law (see entire letters to Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, Galatians, and Hebrews).
So while the Law is fading and will soon pass away (jots and tittles have passed, the remainder will pass at the end of the age), it still serves a purpose - to point unbelievers to Christ.
What about those in Christ?
We have died to the Law (see Rom. 7:4-6, Gal. 2:19-21).
Those in Christ have no relationship to or with the Law whatsoever - we're DEAD to it.
We approach God via a new and living way, a better way built on better promises, via a New, Perfect, and Permanent High Priest from a different tribe (Heb. chapters 7-10).
We are to be led by the Spirit and not by the Law, and the Spirit will not lead us into sin (Gal. 5).
That should be the end of the thread.
But I'm guessing it won't be . . .
-JGIG
D
dalconn
Guest
Jesus said all the law and the prophets hang on the first two commandments, love the Lord with all of your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself (matthew 22:40)
doesn't sound to complicated to me
doesn't sound to complicated to me
C
conniek
Guest
You are correct. Jesus did say that all the law and the prophets hang on the first two commandments, love the Lord with all of your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:40). If you love God then you will obey His 1st 4 commandments and if you love your neighbor you will obey the last 6 of His commandments. 
Jesus said all the law and the prophets hang on the first two commandments, love the Lord with all of your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself (matthew 22:40)
doesn't sound to complicated to me
It is good you know these words, but rote alone is not sufficient.
Now think about this. If all of the law and the prophets hang on the two great laws of love, they are there with the two great laws of love. A reminder, those two great laws of love are counted within the teachings of the law from Moses.
The difference is knowing by the teaching of Jesus Christ just how the laws are to be obeyed.
Here are ñsome hints. There is no longer p a temple of stone, for we are the living stones of the Temple with Jesus Christ the Head and the Corner Sone.. Jesus Christ made all foods received with thanksgiving clean Jesus Christ came to forgive, not to condemn. Jesus Christ desires mercy and not sacrifice..
Just following those hints alone are more than sufficient to be obedient in the grace of God, for you will not be condemned by any law or command, you will just be wiser and obedient. I hope this helps you. Remember Jesus Christ teachyes this and more.
God bless all the children of obedience in Jesus Christ today and forever, amen.
Now think about this. If all of the law and the prophets hang on the two great laws of love, they are there with the two great laws of love. A reminder, those two great laws of love are counted within the teachings of the law from Moses.
The difference is knowing by the teaching of Jesus Christ just how the laws are to be obeyed.
Here are ñsome hints. There is no longer p a temple of stone, for we are the living stones of the Temple with Jesus Christ the Head and the Corner Sone.. Jesus Christ made all foods received with thanksgiving clean Jesus Christ came to forgive, not to condemn. Jesus Christ desires mercy and not sacrifice..
Just following those hints alone are more than sufficient to be obedient in the grace of God, for you will not be condemned by any law or command, you will just be wiser and obedient. I hope this helps you. Remember Jesus Christ teachyes this and more.
God bless all the children of obedience in Jesus Christ today and forever, amen.
You are correct. Jesus did say that all the law and the prophets hang on the first two commandments, love the Lord with all of your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:40). If you love God then you will obey His 1st 4 commandments and if you love your neighbor you will obey the last 6 of His commandments.
Y
yaright
Guest
Well, if 100 christians gave the perfect answer, none of them would be the same. Jesus said He came to fulfill the laws and words of the prophets; and not one jot or tittle of the law would pass before they are fulfilled. However, the way we interpret law and the way Jesus teaches it from within, can look so different that to even find the law Jesus is fulfilling at any given moment on the path to the cross He walked is counter-intuitive. So, the best witness I have today is read the New Testament and pay close attention to the things Jesus said and did; because with every step He took and every word He spoke is the fulfillment of law. One more thing, examine all of it as if you are the one who is wearing the shoes to whom He is speaking. If you want to know who you are and why you are that way in God's sight, keep those questions on your mind as you follow Jesus; and you will find, Jesus does teach those who follow Him.
Jesus said,
Mat 5:17
Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heavenandearth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
Mat 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20
For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The grammar says the law remains. Also, you may ask yourself why does Jesus continue advising all that their righteousnous must exceed that of the Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven?
Do not assume on your salvation, work it out with fear and trembling. So many Christians can be wrong, but the Lord is always spot on.
The reason jesus said your righteousness must exceed the Pharisees is because when you look to the literal letter and hinge heaven on obedience to it, you become full of hypocrisy, wickedness and everything unclean on the inside, and you ignore the love of God in the process. Matt 23
explains it
explains it
You have used the law and the prophets as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ's first advent, but you discard the prophets words of His second advent on th eclouds, when all who pierced Him shall look upone Him.
There is much more of teh prophets yet to be fulfilled..
There is much more of teh prophets yet to be fulfilled..