Which laws are and are not valid?

[just-us-2]

If God is a graceful God, which we know HE is, - full of grace – why do some of you think HE would dispense something to us that is totally opposite in the entity of His “Law”? That makes no sense whatsoever.

It was by His grace that He gave the law to reveal our transgressions – if He hadn’t we would all be destined for eternity in hell.

Point your finger toward the law as a scapegoat and your eternity is in jeopardy. Hebrews 4:1 (NAS) Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
It is high time our doctrines place the blame of failure on us where it belongs instead of on God’s law. It is man/human nature who messes up the works, NOT the law God gave to man.

I certainly hope that those who reject the law as given to Moses, for whatever reason will learn that “He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.” Deuteronomy 8:3 (NAS) And for those of you who don’t like the law, Jesus says exactly the same thing in Luke 4:4 and Matthew 4:4 “But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD."
All = everything, not a percentage of anything no matter how large that percentage might be.

If you truly have the indwelling Spirit, you will understand this. If you cannot understand, then you need to beseech Almighty God for the new life He offers because your born-again experience was vain. The carnal mind cannot understand spiritual things. Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Elin]

If God is a graceful God, which we know HE is, - full of grace – why do some of you think HE would dispense something to us that is totally opposite in the entity of His “Law”? That makes no sense whatsoever.

See Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Eph 2:15; Heb 7:18-19.

 

[just-me]

See Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Eph 2:15; Heb 7:18-19.

Matthew 22:37-40
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

What is it that you do not understand about the law recorded in Exodus 20:13-14, Leviticus 5:16, Deuteronomy 5:17-18, Deuteronomy 6:1-6, and Leviticus 19:11-18

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:5

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:18

Thou shalt not kill.Thou shalt not commit adultery. Exodus 20:13-14

Thou shalt not kill.Neither shalt thou commit adultery. Deuteronomy 5:17-18

And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him. Leviticus 5:16

What is it that you are unable to understand that the law revealed the enmity that is destroyed, recorded in Ephesians 2:15
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity (not the law) thereby: Ephesians 2:16

What is it that you refuse to comprehend that Hebrews 7:18-19 is not degrading the law, but revealing the human carnality unable to be righteous within itself? Are you bent on pointing toward God's ineffectiveness rather than our own failures? Are you convinced that God gave the law so we could minister salvation by its annihilation rather than put to death the old man, (woman) and our own failures?

First things first. Sin is revealed by the law, and then sin is destroyed through Christ, not the law that reveals what is necessary to be destroyed. Stop pointing an accusing finger toward God's words, and direct your rhetoric and quoted verses toward the real enemy, and the real sin that is in the world.

 

[Elin]

If God is a graceful God, which we know HE is, - full of grace – why do some of you think HE would dispense something to us that is totally opposite in the entity of His “Law”? That makes no sense whatsoever.

See Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Eph 2:15; Heb 7:18-19.

Matthew 22:37-40
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[SUP]40[/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

What is it that you do not understand about the law
recorded in Exodus 20:13-14, Leviticus 5:16, Deuteronomy 5:17-18, Deuteronomy 6:1-6, and Leviticus 19:11-18

I understand it all. . .in Mt 22:40.

 

[just-us-2]

See Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Eph 2:15; Heb 7:18-19.

Okay, I have looked these scriptures up. There is nothing in any of them that tells us that God decided that His original plan wasn’t good enough so He nullified it, nor is there anything that says we do not have to live by EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God. They are all great scriptures of course, but I don’t see where any of them give us permission to ignore some of what God in His infinite grace gave to mankind. I do know that people often rwad the Ephesians 2:15 as the law being killed but it was the enmity that was destroyed.
MT 22:37-40
37 He told him, "`You are to love ADONAI your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.'
38 This is the greatest and most important mitzvah.
39 And a second is similar to it, `You are to love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 All of the Torah and the Prophets are dependent on these two mitzvot."
Ro 13:8, 9, 10;
8 Don't owe anyone anything - except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah.
9 For the commandments, "Don't commit adultery," "Don't murder," "Don't steal," "Don't covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
10 Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah.
Eph 2:15
15 by destroying in his own body the enmity occasioned by the Torah, with its commands set forth in the form of ordinances. He did this in order to create in union with himself from the two groups a single new humanity and thus make shalom,

Heb 7:18-19
18 Thus, on the one hand, the earlier rule is set aside because of its weakness and inefficacy
19 (for the Torah did not bring anything to the goal); and, on the other hand, a hope of something better is introduced, through which we are drawing near to God.

 

[Elin]

Okay, I have looked these scriptures up. There is nothing in any of them that tells us that God decided that His original plan wasn’t good enough so He nullified it, nor is there anything that says we do not have to live by EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God. They are all great scriptures of course, but I don’t see where any of them give us permission to ignore some of what God in His infinite grace gave to mankind. I do know that
people often read the Ephesians 2:15 as the law being killed but it was the enmity that was destroyed.

You don't understand Eph 2:11-16.

Two enmities were destroyed by abolishing the law in the flesh of Christ:
1) between Jew and Gentile because of the defilement laws
2) between the one body (of Jew and Gentile) and God because of the curse of the law.

MT 22:37-40
37 He told him, "`You are to love ADONAI your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.'
38 This is the greatest and most important mitzvah.
39 And a second is similar to it, `You are to love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 All of the Torah and the Prophets are dependent on these two mitzvot."

Ro 13:8, 9, 10;
8 Don't owe anyone anything - except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah.
9 For the commandments, "Don't commit adultery," "Don't murder," "Don't steal," "Don't covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
10 Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah.

Eph 2:15
15 by destroying in his own body the enmity occasioned by the Torah, with its commands set forth in the form of ordinances. He did this in order to create in union with himself from the two groups a single new humanity and thus make shalom,

Faulty translation of the original language of Eph 2:15 where
the law is abolished and
the enmity is destroyed, and
there is no "occasioned by the law".

You will never correctly understand the NT using your faulty translation of its original language.

Heb 7:18-19
18 Thus, on the one hand, the earlier rule is set aside because of its weakness and inefficacy
19 (for the Torah did not bring anything to the goal);
and, on the other hand, a hope of something better is introduced, through which we are drawing near to God.

That "something better" is the new covenant founded on better promises and with a better mediator than the Sinaitic covenant.

 

[just-us-2]

You don't understand Eph 2:11-16.

Two enmities were destroyed by abolishing the law in the flesh of Christ:
1) between Jew and Gentile because of the defilement laws
2) between the one body (of Jew and Gentile) and God because of the curse of the law.


Faulty translation of the original language of Eph 2:15 where
the law is abolished and
the enmity is destroyed, and
there is no "occasioned by the law".

You will never correctly understand the NT using your faulty translation of its original language.


That "something better" is the new covenant founded on better promises and with a better mediator than the Sinaitic covenant.

I understand Ephesians 2 very well and feel obliged to pass my opinion as you did: You do not understand either Ephesians 2:11-16 nor do you understand the “something better” calling it a “new” covenant.
Furthermore, I am not using a “faulty” translation of the original scriptures. That statement you made reminds me of the conversation Jesus had with the Jews in John 8:43-45.
Since it is impossible to carry on a good edifying conversation with you because of your arrogant attitude, I will say only this:
2 Timothy 2:23
23 But stay away from stupid and ignorant controversies - you know that they lead to fights,

Romans 14:1
Now as for a person whose trust is weak, welcome him - but not to get into arguments over opinions.

 

[Biblelogic01]

Some here believe the NT teaches revelation of the OT, when it's actually the OT helps teach revelation in the NT.

Kind of like math, you have to learn Algebra 1 before learning Algebra 2 or calculus or something like that that is beyond Algebra 1.

Unless the public school systems are teaching it backwards :/

 

[KohenMatt]

Some here believe the NT teaches revelation of the OT, when it's actually the OT helps teach revelation in the NT.

Kind of like math, you have to learn Algebra 1 before learning Algebra 2 or calculus or something like that that is beyond Algebra 1.

Unless the public school systems are teaching it backwards :/

I would say it's both, actually. But I do agree that the OT brings a whole lot of revelation to the NT. Understanding the OT is essential to understanding the NT. As well as vice versa.

 

[Marian29]

Hi there, I'll keep my question brief.

There are many laws in the Old Testament, how do we differentiate between the laws we follow, and those we do not?

i.e. Wearing Mixed Fibers etc.

Any answers from scripture will be very helpful,

Matthew.

We must look at the law, not only as a whole, but also for its aspects - ceremonial, civil, moral, dietary etc ... When Jesus died on the cross, he paid the debts that you and I had to the Law, however we are not free to disregard our parents, so that in Ephesians, Paul says that this is a valid command. That is, it took a moral aspect of the Law given by God, and showed that this moral aspect of the Law is eternally valid for people of all ages.

 

[yaright]

I have heard this interpretation of the wine and the skins many times. My original understanding of the wine was life previous to Jesus Christ. AFter we accept Jesus Christ, we ae served the better wine, that is the life of Christ in us.

We are made new because of Christ. His Holy Spirit leads us to all truth.

As for obeying God; no one may say in truth that disobedience is of the Holy Spirit. Now, Jesus Christ has demonsstrated and taugth us just how to be obedient, but we cannot be obedient withouut the Holy Spirit conveyingthis truth to us. It is one of those mysteries that everyone seems to explain, that is, being obedient yet living in grace.

The complete understanding of this is learning from the Master, believing Him and doing as He teaches. God bless all who do His word, amen..-.

I would like to add a little bit. The grapes (having been crushed) are God's people being called; maybe you've read about a white horse stomping through grapes like the blood of men. The wedding of the lamb (and the church He calls His own), reveals first what is common among men; but the latter speaks of the richer understanding of wedding feast; it is not a common celebration. What I have shared, and what you have given witness to are two of many facets of understanding this parable of the wedding feast given on a personal level.

 

[JaumeJ]

When the Lord, God, teaches us, we cannot be surpeised if there are multiple lessons in the same words. This we see as soon as the Holy Spirit enters into us.

Now, knowing this as true does not mean each person understands all the meanings, so I thank you for sharing your understanding with my grain of sand. What you say is beautiful, and, I believe, true.

God bless you always, amen.

I would like to add a little bit. The grapes (having been crushed) are God's people being called; maybe you've read about a white horse stomping through grapes like the blood of men. The wedding of the lamb (and the church He calls His own), reveals first what is common among men; but the latter speaks of the richer understanding of wedding feast; it is not a common celebration. What I have shared, and what you have given witness to are two of many facets of understanding this parable of the wedding feast given on a personal level.

 

[Elin]

Heb 7:18-19
18 Thus, on the one hand, the earlier rule is set aside because of its weakness and inefficacy
19 (for the Torah did not bring anything to the goal);
and, on the other hand, a hope of something better is introduced, through which we are drawing near to God.

That "something better" is the new covenant founded on better promises and with a better mediator than the Sinaitic covenant.

I understand Ephesians 2 very well and feel obliged to pass my opinion as you did: You do not understand either Ephesians 2:11-16
nor do you understand the “something better” (Heb 7:19) calling it a “new” covenant.

The veil of Moses again. . .

I'm not the one calling it a new covenant, the word of God in Heb 7:22-24 calls it that.

Eph 2:15
15 by destroying in his own body the enmity occasioned by the Torah, with its commands set forth in the form of ordinances. He did this in order to create in union with himself from the two groups a single new humanity and thus make shalom,

Faulty translation of the original language of Eph 2:15 where. . .there is no "occasioned by" in the text.

Furthermore, I am not using a “faulty” translation of the original scriptures.

The record speaks for itself. . .

There is no "occasioned by" in the original language of the text.

Since it is impossible to carry on a good edifying conversation with you

That requires knowledge of the NT gospel presented in the NT word of God written.
Your deceptive subtle diversion to the false HRM gospel cannot possibly edify. . .it is deception.

I will say only this:

2 Timothy 2:23
23 But stay away from stupid and ignorant controversies -

Romans 14:1
not to get into arguments over opinions.

I heartily recommend it. . .and am looking forward to it.

 

[Elin]

Some here believe the NT teaches revelation of the OT, when it's actually the OT helps teach revelation in the NT.

Some here don't realize that the OT is the NT concealed, while the NT is the OT revealed.

Kind of like math, you have to learn Algebra 1 before learning Algebra 2 or calculus or something like that that is beyond Algebra 1.

Wrong analogy. . .

Kind of like Biblical symbolic teaching in parables and prophetic riddles.

 

[Elin]

I would say it's both, actually. But I do agree that the OT brings a whole lot of revelation to the NT. Understanding the OT is essential to understanding the NT.

That's the nature of progressive revelation--from the old to the new.

As well as vice versa.

 

[just-us-2]

Your deceptive subtle diversion to the false HRM gospel cannot possibly edify. . .it is deception.

Are you assuming I know something about HRM? It is people like you who brought it to my attention. Your accusations are false, as usual.
2 Timothy 3:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Timothy 2:23
23 But stay away from stupid and ignorant controversies - you know that they lead to fights,

Romans 14:1
Now as for a person whose trust is weak, welcome him - but not to get into arguments over opinions.

I heartily recommend it. . .and am looking forward to it.

If you are looking so forward to it, why did you even reply to my last post? That makes no sense…unless…oh, I get it! You are the proud owner of Narcissistic Personality Disorder! I thought you were just obsessed with having the last word but now that I know the symptoms of NPD, I see why you are such a toxic person.

Then there is the related OCD toxic person: “If you have a toxic person in your life, cut them lose. Not because you’re selfish and you can’t handle the pressure, but because you have to stay strong for yourself and many others.
Life is too hard and too short to be dealing with negative souls. Pray for them because you want them to be happy and more pleasant to be around. But do so from a distance.” (Cut Toxic People Loose | The OCD Diaries)


Now, if you reply to this post I will know that you are not a woman of your word, since you said...

I heartily recommend it. . .and am looking forward to it.

Deuteronomy 23:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.
Matthew 5:33 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Matthew 5:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
James 5:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

 

[Elin]

Are you assuming I know something about HRM?

Yes. . .the Aramaic text thing is HRM.

I heartily recommend it. . .and am looking forward to it

If you are looking so forward to it, why did you even reply to my last post?

That statement an be understood in more than one way. . .you have chosen the wrong way.

Who said they were going to respond no more?

 

[just-us-2]

Yes. . .the Aramaic text thing is HRM.

And where did I say anything about Aramaic in my last post?

 

[Elin]

And where did I say anything about Aramaic in my last post?

Am I limited to your last post, or may I include your household?

 

[just-us-2]

I refuse to play your imagination games.