Is Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) a total joke?

[jamie26301]

well no matter what anyone thinks of the suggestion you make in your first paragraph and defend in most of the remainder of your post...this is -not- what the theistic evolutionists i mentioned are claiming...

I never meant that they did ... only that to make a dogmatic assertion EITHER WAY, is a little presumptuous. There is only a few verses in all the Gospels that I can recall referring to Genesis.

and in response to your last paragraph...if jesus 'lacked understanding' and spoke from his lack of understanding...then he would have been lying or crazy when he said he only says what he hears from his father... there is just no way to legitimate the heretical notion that jesus was ignorant or mistaken about anything...

So, is the modern Christian lying or crazy when we say we receive a word or revelation from God? We are far from sinless or perfect, however.

And perfect knowledge is not the same, imo, as being sinless in character and deed. One can grow in knowledge... if Jesus Himself grew in understanding (Luke 2:52), then are we to say that when He started His ministry, He ceased the need to learn anymore? Why pray to God all night, then? It would seem to me that His wisdom and knowledge was always growing, as ours. There would be no need to continue to communicate with God, if He innately knew everything. The night came that He was betrayed, and yet He still struggled, even ASKED to be removed from what He stated before (seemingly with great confidence) that He would do. So... He wavered in faith? He doubted? That's debatable. But what seems rather clear is that to say He was all knowing while in flesh, as He would be in Heaven, is a stretch. And when you say He wasn't all knowing, you open the possibility for there to be some things He did not know (perhaps they just aren't relevant to why He came? He used Genesis to make a point about frivolous divorce, not to help people understand something about Himself.)

I'm not trying to say one has to believe one way or the other. Just seems that with such perfect knowledge and prophetic vision strips Him of the humanity He came to wear.

 

[MarcR]

Absolutely false.

Old earth creationists hold to a view that posits long but finite yoms rather than 24 hour yoms. The sequence IS the same. The Day-Age construct preserves the general sequence of events as portrayed in the text and is not merely a response to Charles Darwin and evolutionary science noting that from ancient times there was recognition among Bible scholars that the word "day" could mean an extended period of time.

Old earth creationists are NOT changing the order of the days to make them fit with a naturalist view. That's a false assertion. You apparently don't understand the views properly. I recommend you visit repositories where they are defined, such as the Archives & Manuscript Repository for the Continuing Presbyterian Church and learn what they actually are (PCA Historical Center: Search Results).

NOT SO! Most old earth creationists believe that Genesis chapter 1 describes 6 literal days of re-creation after a cataclysmic upheaval with a gap in time between verse 1 and verse 2 and/or between verse 2 and verse 3.



I believe that when Scripture ans 'science' are in conflict, Scripture is always correct.

I believe that there many distinct differences between science and 'science', which I define as science under the influence of secular humanism (an atheistic religion).

I believe that when a reading of Scripture, in the original languages, (which is consistent with common usage) reconciles Scripture with science; that reading should at least be considered.

In Genesis chapter 1, we are told:

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

At first God created the heavens and and the earth.

וְהָאָ֗רֶץ הָיתָ֥ה תֹ֨הוּ֙ וָבֹ֔הוּ וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ עַל־ פְּנִ֧י תה֑וֺם ֿוְר֣וּחַ ֿאֱלֹהִ֗ים ֿמְרַחֶ֖פֶת ֿעַל־ פְּנֵ֥יֿ ֿהַמָּֽיִם׃ֿ


Sometime later the earth was (a) desolation and (a) waste; and darkness was upon the face of the waters, and. the Spirit of God moved upon the face face of the deep.

וַיֹּא֥מֶר אֱלֹהִ֖ים יְהִ֣י א֑וֺרוַֽיְהִי־ אֽוֺר


Sometime later God said, let there be light; and there was light.


This suggests but does not demand a gap in time between verse 1 and verse2; and/ or between verse 2 and verse 3; and allows but does not demand that the 6 day creation narative, which begins with verse 3 is recreation after a cataclysmic upheaval; perhaps engendered by the fall of Satan.

It is noteworthy that the word בָּרָ֣א created does not appear again until verse 21; and all occurrences of the word יַּ֣עַשׂ translated made, in the intervening verses, can also be tramslated: called forth, made manifest, or allowed to be seen.


This allows for the sun, moon, and stars; and the original earth to be part of a previous creation.

In verse 21 we see that God created aquatic animals and birds after their kind on the fifth day; and verse 24 tells us that God created land animals other than birds after their kind on the sixth day. By common usage, kind can not be translated less narrowly than family; but it can be translated more narrowly if you are so inclined. This allows all members of the dog family: wolves, coyotes, dingoes, dholes, hyenas, jackels, etc. to have come from the same ancestral parents. It also allows for Noah to have taken one pair or seven individuals of each land dwelling zoological family onto the ark.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Yes so! Most old earth creationists adhere to the day-age view which posits long but finite yoms rather than 24 hour yoms. The sequence IS the same. The yoms are long and sequential so there's no need for gaps between them. The day-age interpretation is literal and fully supported by the linguistic data.

The Day-Age construct preserves the general sequence of events as portrayed in the biblical text. I recommend you visit repositories where these views are defined, such as the Archives & Manuscript Repository for the Continuing Presbyterian Church and see for yourself (PCA Historical Center: Search Results).

NOT SO! Most old earth creationists believe that Genesis chapter 1 describes 6 literal days of re-creation after a cataclysmic upheaval with a gap in time between verse 1 and verse 2 and/or between verse 2 and verse 3.

 

[MarcR]

Yes so! Most old earth creationists adhere to the day-age view which posits long but finite yoms rather than 24 hour yoms. The sequence IS the same. The yoms are long and sequential so there's no need for gaps between them. The day-age interpretation is literal and fully supported by the linguistic data.

The Day-Age construct preserves the general sequence of events as portrayed in the biblical text. I recommend you visit repositories where these views are defined, such as the Archives & Manuscript Repository for the Continuing Presbyterian Church and see for yourself (PCA Historical Center: Search Results).

While it is true that the Hebrew word 'yom' can mean either a literal day or an indefinite period of time; indefinite periods of time do not have evening and morning. Even if you try to take evening and morning as poetic that doesn't work because the light follows the darkness contrary to the poetic figure.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Read 'A Brief Explanation of the Hebrew Text of the First Chapter of Genesis as it Relates to the Age of the Earth Question' by ancient Hebrew scholar Dr. Rodney Whitefield.

For more information and a deeper study read 'Reading Genesis One.'

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

They do in Genesis and do so for a purpose. Ancient Hebrews most often marked 24-hour days with "evening to evening" and occasionally with "morning to morning." Old Testament authors exclusively designated the passing of a 24-hour day in one of these two ways.

However, the "and was evening, and was morning" expression in Genesis 1 is unique. The repeated word-for-word translation of the Hebrew text used in Genesis 1 for the six creation yoms-"and was evening, and was morning" demarks.

Obtain the resource I shared from Amazon and read the study on page 79 titled 'More About "Evening" and "Morning".' This ancient Hebrew scholar specifically and completely refutes your assertion in that careful analytical study.

While it is true that the Hebrew word 'yom' can mean either a literal day or an indefinite period of time; indefinite periods of time do not have evening and morning. Even if you try to take evening and morning as poetic that doesn't work because the light follows the darkness contrary to the poetic figure.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Oh, here's interesting pictures I found:

 

[kedge]

Whilst i have a sense of joy in dialogue with others over origins of all natural phenomena and theories of the universe and the natural world's existence i wish no longer to engage in dialogue in this particular thread, reasons being is because Mr Hovind is in the spotlight for all the possible wrong reasons. The problem with Mr Hovind's case is that he is potentially bringing God into disrepute, the other problem is that no one really knows the truth about Mr Hovind's personal case, Mr Hovinds case has been under the spotlight of corruption and Christianity and its adherents is best advised not to be seen to promote the possibility of any corruption and draw the attention of such individuals.

 

[JackH]

Whilst i have a sense of joy in dialogue with others over origins of all natural phenomena and theories of the universe and the natural world's existence i wish no longer to engage in dialogue in this particular thread, reasons being is because Mr Hovind is in the spotlight for all the possible wrong reasons. The problem with Mr Hovind's case is that he is potentially bringing God into disrepute, the other problem is that no one really knows the truth about Mr Hovind's personal case, Mr Hovinds case has been under the spotlight of corruption and Christianity and its adherents is best advised not to be seen to promote the possibility of any corruption and draw the attention of such individuals.

Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) did not bring God into disrepute.

He brought himself into disrepute.

What do you mean no one knows the truth about Mr. Hovind's (interesting you call him Mr. rather than Dr.) personal case?

He was convicted on 58 counts.

Many of the counts involved illegal structuring of cash transactions. Among other things he did was repeatedly withdraw $9,500 so as to avoid the scrutiny that comes with transactions over $10,000.

Former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert was just indicted for doing something similar. He allegedly withdrew over $1 million in $10,000 increments, allegedly to pay off a blackmailer. I suspect Hastert will get a prison sentence also.

 

[JackH]

Oh, here's interesting pictures I found:

Those pics should have Dr. Dino saying:

"I haven't filed a tax return in 30 years!"

Like he bragged on his internet broadcasts and in an interview with the New York Times.

 

[JackH]

She plagiarized it from others and then lied about it as having come from her pretending that she learned it from God in her heretical visions.

But JackH's post is correct. Price certainly was influenced by White and Morris was influenced by Price. It's not an all or nothing proposition Rachel as you keep asserting.

Wikipedia gets this right citing Numbers, Ronald (November 30, 2006). The Creationists: From Scientific Creationism to Intelligent Design, Expanded Edition. Harvard University Press. ISBN 0-674-02339-0:

"Price's ideas were borrowed again in the early 1960s by Henry M. Morris and John Whitcomb in their book The Genesis Flood, a work that skeptic Martin Gardner calls "the most significant attack on evolution...since the Scopes trial". Morris, in his 1984 book History of Modern Creationism, spoke glowingly of Price's logic and writing style, and referred to reading The New Geology as "a life-changing experience for me".

Rachel, you are wrong.

Yes, the evidence is overwhelming that the modern Young Earth Creationist cult as we know it today was heavily influenced by Seventh-Day Adventists and Henry Morris got much of his flood geology from George McCready Price.

Of course, one can readily see why YECs would like to obscure that fact.

Dr. Dino (Hovind) did the same via Henry Morris via George McCready Price.

 

[JackH]

2...there is a lack of -direct- evidence that dinosaurs and humans coexisted...for example the claims of overlapping human and dinosaur trackways or 'out of place artifacts' that are always dubious or unverifiable... however one evidence that dinosaur fossils are significantly younger than the 65 million to 250 million year date conventionally assigned to mesozoic strata is the presence of intact soft tissue being discovered in a small but increasing number of dinosaur fossils...

Are you saying that there is credible evidence that soft tissue in dinosaur bones has been discovered that "proves" dinosaurs coexisted with humans or that dinosaur fossils are thousands rather than millions of years old?

If so, please cite specifically, with links, who makes this claim.

 

[jamie26301]

3...a particularly intriguing evidence i have learned about supporting the idea of a global flood is the orthocone nautiloid fossils found in grand canyon strata...they are concentrated in a single relatively thin layer but distributed across a geographical area of possibly hundreds of miles... the nautiloid shells are preferentially pointed in a particular direction which suggests that they were influenced by a widespread current...however roughly one in seven of the nautiloids are found pointing downwards...implying that their burial was rapid enough that they were entombed in place before the current was able to push many of them over... these characteristics suggest an underwater 'mass kill' of huge numbers of nautiloids...the type of thing you would expect from noah's flood...

I have an honest inquiry: can you explain this farther? If it rained and rained for 40 days/nights, how does that secure almost instant fossils and set them in place, when after some time the water reamines, and then later drained? If the current pushed them over, so there was only one current, one way, all over the earth?

I'm really ignorant on this - I was hoping you'd help me understand how the waters pressure and current, given the nature of gradual rain setting it, and then it draining, would preserve such fossils.

 

[jamie26301]

If the Bible can be proven to be true - and that's what this movement is about, it seems, is proving the Bible is literal history - then what does one need faith for? Isn't that teaching people to evaluate the spiritual based on what they can see?

Just reposting from way back on page 2. What say y'all?

 

[wincam]

Are you saying that there is credible evidence that soft tissue in dinosaur bones has been discovered that "proves" dinosaurs coexisted with humans or that dinosaur fossils are thousands rather than millions of years old?

If so, please cite specifically, with links, who makes this claim.

Dinosaurs were found buried alongside and along with modern animals, birds and plants and even humans - some must have known but it seems this massive cover up has been uncovered - see www.TheGrandExperiment.com/livingfossils by Dr.Carl Werner - wincam

 

[JackH]

Yawn.

This is like the fourth time you have posted this in this thread.

You have also posted it in numerous other threads and started this thread about it:

http://christianchat.com/conspiracy...-forum/113770-uncovered-massive-cover-up.html

If you want to discuss this, fine, but don't just post it over and over and ignore questions and comments about it.

That's about as lame as a three-legged dog.

Now, if you want to discuss this, go back on this thread and answer the questions I asked you.

 

[JackH]

I'm back. And para-church organizations, such as creation organizations, exist to practically address specific issues. They are not "churches" in the sense of a local assembly or collection of local assemblies (commonly referred to as a "Church" or a "denomination") and it's ignorant and incorrect of Huffington to attempt to treat them as if they were.

AIG and Huffington are both non-churches from the standpoint of what constitutes a New Testament local assembly or collection of such and exist to accomplish a specific mission as per their respective mission statements.

If it's immoral and wrong for AIG to engage in education, rather than heroin addict recovery, than it's immoral and wrong for Huffington do likewise.

This brought to mind that Ken Ham and AIG have sued the state of Kentucky. They want the financial burden to build this Ham's Ark replica of Noah's original to fall on the taxpayer.

For info on same:

https://www.au.org/church-state/may-2015-church-state/featured/time-for-an-intervention

And in case you want to work there you have to agree to the Hamster's statement of faith as per this from the article:

The statement of faith required anyone who wanted to work at Ark Encounter to affirm their belief that homosexuality is a sin on par with bestiality and incest, that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that the Bible is literally true. Anyone who doesn’t agree with those statements would not be considered for a job.

I wonder what the YECs posting here think about that.

What say you, YECs?

 

[Mitspa]

Don't care much for Kent Hovind's doctrine ...bad theology ...but I love the way he calls out all the evolution nonsense lol

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Personally, Kent Hovind deviates so far from the standard YEC model that I don't view him as a legitimate YEC source. I go to AIG or ICR for that.

But I do view Kent Hovind as an ongoing source of great entertainment. Free Kent! I can hardly wait to see what will happen next. It's a "Christian" reality show unfolding in real time. In fact, I want Kent to have his own reality show on cable television. *grin*.

Don't care much for Kent Hovind's doctrine ...bad theology ...but I love the way he calls out all the evolution nonsense lol

 

[Crypto]

While it is true that the Hebrew word 'yom' can mean either a literal day or an indefinite period of time; indefinite periods of time do not have evening and morning. Even if you try to take evening and morning as poetic that doesn't work because the light follows the darkness contrary to the poetic figure.

You are right, and Exodus 20:8-11 agrees with a literal day rather than long periods of time...

[FONT=&quot]9[/FONT] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [FONT=&quot]10[/FONT] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: [FONT=&quot]11[/FONT] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Ex 20:9-11 (KJV)