Does God Hate The Unsaved?

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G

Gr8grace

Guest
So . . . and God's wrath poured out in the Great Tribulation at the end will be much greater than any anger he has ever let loose or ever known. He is angry and disappointed with mankind and he is going to show them a thing or two!

Just because my anger does not extend or come close to God's anger doesn't change the fact that his wrath is anger.
Gods wrath, Is justice and grace actually. While He is Just in His dealings with mankind, there is also grace involved. Some people will not believe until they are at the end of themselves. And for many they won't humble themselves until impending physical death is at their doorstep.

Crisis evangelism.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
I wonder why it is God has provided prachers, teachers, apostles, workers of miracles, and most of all His Word in pring, in the Flesh, and in the Holy spirit if mankind has no free will? Curious is it not?

My next question is simple, why are peope coming to Bible discussion to tell all they have no free will? What is the Bible for if not to pursuade individuals of God's ways, plans, and our future with Him?

I chose Jesus Christ after the Father heard my pleas for help, and the Father brought me to Jesus Christ. Another curious thought on this; Jesus comes from the Hebrew, Help of God.........Salvation of God. What a coincidence! My, my!
I will to go swim down to the bottom of the ocean. Since, you're saying our will is free, I should be able to do that simply because I will it, right?

No? Why not? Ohhhh, so will is connected to our nature and, by nature, we do not have the skills to swim that far or deep.

Same deal, except I add one adjective to describe that nature -- sin nature.

Why would sin nature freely choose God? It's against our nature!

Can we? Unlike choosing to swim down to the bottom of the ocean, we surely could choose God. And because of that, we are most culpable for our sins. BUT, in sin nature, apart from God's super nature overcoming our sin nature, we never will, because honestly? Those sins we did in darkness were all kinds of so-much-more-important-than-God to us, and God would just interfere.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
It seems that we equate Gods anger with ours.... only His temper tantrum is on a cosmic scale where ours would be chucking the tv remote across the room. Gods anger and wrath and hatred isn't like ours. We can't imagine the full depth of Gods character with our finite little minds.

On a side note...I believe that when God says He can have nothing to do with darkness. I think it really means that darkness vaporizes to nothingness in His presence.
Really good thing Jesus came and died for some of us ex-darkness lovers. :)
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Hate has a context. There is righteousness indignation. The Lord must not be confused with a hater, one who hates like the world hates, for whatever reason, a world where hate is a motivator, a driving force and, as if, means to an end, hate a way of life and conduct, rooted in love of self.

Psalms 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

There is that hatred which is just, a Godly anger which is well founded and directed, against evildoers, as righteousness necessarily implies consequences and justice against evil. There is indignation of offenses that can be horrific to us, even unregenerates with that black little heart, so what about how offensive to Holy God? These things are a matter of great indignation to Him, and we'd already be cinders in history, were it not for His very longsuffering.

The big enchilda, though, is that God is not willing that any should perish, though the time comes He will execute justice, this not the same as going to war to rip somebody off, and is not about some lust to do harm, God all about the higher precept of love. If people can't see this love proven by the Lord Jesus redeeming us from sin by His terrible suffering, we who did not love Him first, love Him at all, then there's no hope for such a fool, who can't see that God is, truly, love. He is punished for our sin, then even has to draw us to Him by His Spirit, as we're too wicked, blind and stupid, to even listen to the gospel, on our own! Somebody who has to do everything for you, while you are yet evil and hating Him every offensive day, this to save you: that's not ordinary love. Spit at and trample that love, who'd not be angry? Who'd suffer such fools forever, damaging most everything they touch? Certainly not a Holy God. You can thank Him that He doesn't wink at evil, because, if He did, you could trust nothing.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
Maybe I am just not understanding but why would you want to remember every sin you ever did for eternity? . . . God has already cast them as far as the east is from the west . . . Psalm 103:12

How can there be "no sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain" if we have to sit around and remember our own iniquities?

Just asking . . :)
I'm still trying to figure that one out on a different level. My sorrow is knowing Mom, and probably Dad, and possibly my whole blood family won't be rejoicing in heaven. (No answer there. I really want to know how there will be no sorrow there.)
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
You are going to have to teach me someday how you ask questions nicely. You and Marc. :)
If they ever teach classes, I'm hoping you don't get to be the only student. I need a seat. lol
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
When he didn't throw them(The garments) back in Gods face!:D

And I cannot give you a scripture that clearly says Adam Chose God. It is what I deduce from scripture.
Ya know something? I was completely discombobulated after being raped, so the rapists offered me a ride home and I took it. Trust me, that did NOT mean I chose them! It meant I took the opportunity (too lightly but I did) to do the one and only thing I wanted to do right then -- go home without being so absolutely lost.

Just because we take something freely offered doesn't have to be anything deeper than we wanted that thing. In that case, Adam and Eve felt guilty and were feeling shame for the first time ever, so took what was offered -- clothes. Definitely not evidence that they chose God then.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Now that is a scary thought! But we will be living in a place "wherein dwelleth righteousness" for eternity - hopefully that makes a difference. Maybe there will be no such thing as "pride" this time around.

Adam and Eve . . . . Genesis 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. They made a choice after being tempted and they made the wrong choice.
I think this touches on a good point.
There won't be pride in heaven due to our changed nature, not a matter of free will per se, but of a changed nature and unprovoked by our flesh.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
So . . . and God's wrath poured out in the Great Tribulation at the end will be much greater than any anger he has ever let loose or ever known. He is angry and disappointed with mankind and he is going to show them a thing or two!

Just because my anger does not extend or come close to God's anger doesn't change the fact that his wrath is anger.
Sorry, you just spoke French to me. (Well, you didn't, but it's so far removed from what I know it might as well have been. lol) The Great Tribulation was a few Caesars and Egyptian rulers trying to wipe out Christianity by killing every Christian for 200 years. At least, that was the great one talked about by John. (More here but in smaller quantities of killing Christians.) Because that's how I believe, I can't think of that as God's wrath, so can't answer your question. (Thus, you might as well be speaking French, because I don't understand French either. lol)

On the humorous side, Ha! Now whatcha gonna do since I simply can't figure out how to respond to that example? LOL
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Sorry, you just spoke French to me. (Well, you didn't, but it's so far removed from what I know it might as well have been. lol) The Great Tribulation was a few Caesars and Egyptian rulers trying to wipe out Christianity by killing every Christian for 200 years. At least, that was the great one talked about by John. (More here but in smaller quantities of killing Christians.) Because that's how I believe, I can't think of that as God's wrath, so can't answer your question. (Thus, you might as well be speaking French, because I don't understand French either. lol)

On the humorous side, Ha! Now whatcha gonna do since I simply can't figure out how to respond to that example? LOL
[Crossnote] kicks Lynn out of the classroom for speaking Martian. LOL
 
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No. God doesn't hate us. He sent his son to save us.
...while we were yet sinners...

[h=1]Romans 5:8New American Standard Bible (NASB)[/h]8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Who are/is the "us" in this verse?


[h=1]Acts 17:30[/h]"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,..."

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]While the "us" in Romans 5:8 refers to those who have heard the call of Jesus, that same call has gone out to "all people everywhere" (Acts 17:30)

[/FONT]Jesus loved all men everywhere, throughout all of time, when He laid down His life, otherwise we are all doomed. Now if Jesus loved all men when He laid down His life, we can be certain that Our Father feels the same way, for Jesus Himself said that He was one with His Father. (look it up)

Peter gives us this:

"
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." (2Pet 3:9) And who did Peter write to? "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:"
(2Pet 1:1)

Peter wrote to all who have responded to that call that went out to all people everywhere, as cited in Acts 17:30.

So, does God hate all people everywhere for whom He laid down His life?

No!! Something is wrong with the "hate" verses. Not what has been written, but with the way we understand them.

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]God has demonstrated His love for us when He revealed this: (Gen 22:15-19)

[/FONT]15 Then the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven,16 and said, “By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your [e]seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your [f]seed shall possess the gate of [g]their enemies. 18 In your [h]seed all the nations of the earth shall [i]be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Not in Abraham, but in his Seed, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed. Abraham's seed was in our Messiah, who demonstrated God's love when He laid down His life for us, while we were yet "sinners"!! Whom God hates so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die for us while we were yet sinners??

Can you not see the contradiction here? I'll simply close with saying the "hate" verses must be understood in some other way. The problem is not with God's word, but with the way we are understanding it. (See: [/FONT]https://answersingenesis.org/archaeology/ "How long were the Israelites in Egypt?" by David Wright)[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)] (NASB)[/COLOR][/FONT]


Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation


 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Maybe I am just not understanding but why would you want to remember every sin you ever did for eternity? . . . God has already cast them as far as the east is from the west . . . Psalm 103:12

How can there be "no sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain" if we have to sit around and remember our own iniquities?

Just asking . . :)

who said I wanted to? Sorry if you misunderstood me. When we meet God. I think we will KNOW how truly sinful we are. I do not think we even know today how truly sinful we are.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
God came to us. It is the idea that God does not come to some men, but He does to others is my beef. Not the debate of man can or can't go to God.

When God comes to a man and He will. Man can reject Him.
The nation of Israel and Judas is proof of this. Amen.

Matthew 23:37[ Jesus Laments over Jerusalem ] “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are going to have to teach me someday how you ask questions nicely. You and aMarc. :)

I hear ya, I feel even when I try to be nice, I sound like I am being mean..lol
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm sorry, EG. I probably should not have posted that, since it is a pet peeve. My dad briefly taught etymology and philology at Columbia; and made me aware of different approaches to lexicography. I have a dim view of redefining words to fit our point of view. I would be much more comfortable if that were a legitimate definition of the word; but it is not!

There is simply no context in scripture in which that deffinition fits, IMO, and I have been reading (as opposed to learning to read) Hebrew for about 70 years.
Thats ok. we will have to disagree. It is not a salvic issue and not worth getting angry over, agree??

When God says we are to love all people. yet at the same time say if we do not HATE them, then we can not be his.. then I have an issue, is God being decisive and confusing, or is God saying something which our language can not properly interpret.

The context of the passage is the enemy of Israel who God took away their land. Because he loved Israel. It Does not mean God HATED these people. He did it to PROTECT the people he loved more.

we see examples of this in our everyday lives if we have kids (all parents have their special kid they hold above others)
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
The nation of Israel and Judas is proof of this. Amen.

Matthew 23:37[ Jesus Laments over Jerusalem ] “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
And Jesus even marveled at the fact that some didn't believe. Why would he wonder or marvel about their unbelief if He knew they couldn't?

5And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6And he marveled because of their unbelief.And he went about among the villages teaching.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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when he decided to come out and not continue to hide from God.
You mean when he was found out and called out by God?

Genesis 3:9-10 (KJV)
9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG,

I specifically said, in my post, that the Greek miseo ( Lk 16) does lend itself to the connotation of love less; but the Hebrew saw nee tiy does not. This is the same word used to say that Esau despised his birthright.
As I said, I have seen numerous examples where it does I do not relate my studying to one lexicon. Anyone can be biased, even if we trust them, they are just men, I like to look at a few.

and again, not worth arguing over either.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You mean when he was found out and called out by God?

Genesis 3:9-10 (KJV)
9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
yep. But he was still in a fallen state. the animal had not been sacrificed yet.. God had to show them the err of their ways. and expose their sin.