Is Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) a total joke?

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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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If it was just local I have a few verses that don’t makesense to me.
Gen 6-17 17"Behold,I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all fleshin which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on theearth shall perish.
This sounds like EVERYTHING on earth withthe breath of life was going to die.


Or everything known to Noah? The word erets can mean earth (world), earth known to man, area of land, local area. The question is not what we think of as the earth but what did Noah think of as 'the earth', Certainly he did not think of the globe. Thus the flood could be on the 'earth' as seen by Noah .

Everything that contained the breath of life', was also as known to Noah. Nothing that he knew of would survive.


Then, Gen 7:4

4"Forafter seven more days, I will send rain on the earth forty days and fortynights; and I will blot out from the face of the land every living thing that Ihave made.
The face of which land? The land known to Noah. The thought is not of a 'local flood', that would be too limiting. It was of a vast flood. 'Worldwide' as far as ancient man was concerned. But no thought for example of Australia.

Again I don’t get “local” from this, but I do get that these two can be made to fit the “his whole world” argument.
More than local, but less than we think of as global. It was Noah's whole land that would be affected.

I don’tsee how this could be interpreted that way though Gen 7:19-23
19Thewater prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountainseverywhere under the heavens were covered.


In other words as far as Noah could see looking in all directions all he could see was water.

Consider that in those early days the landscape may have been fairly flat. the mountains may not have been huge. Great changes may later have been wrought by 'the fountains of the great deep' breaking up. We need not think of the world having the landscape it has today.

20Thewater prevailed fifteen cubits higher, and the mountains were covered. 21Allflesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and everyswarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind; 22ofall that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of thespirit of life, died.
If at that time the world was relatively flat, and the mountains relatively small, and the oceanic valleys much less in depth, there was certainly sufficient water to cover 'the whole land'. And everything know to man. all in which was the breath of life, died. (What was the point of flooding Australia and America if mankind had not reached there?)

I just do not see how a local flood could cover the mountains,and again to me, it seems clear that EVERY living thing on dry land with thebreath of life was killed.
see above.

Please don’t take this as me trying to be aknow-it-all, I am honestly curious how you get a local flood out of this.
I don't get what you would call 'a local flood'. I get a vast flood which covered everywhere known to man, one which was carried down in folk lore. But that is different from a global flood.

Thanks in advance for your view (if you decide to share it of course, and evenif not thanks anyway).
That's ok. I just happen to think that we should think in terms of the thought of men of that day instead of reading modern geography into it.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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Or everything known to Noah? The word erets can mean earth (world), earth known to man, area of land, local area. The question is not what we think of as the earth but what did Noah think of as 'the earth', Certainly he did not think of the globe. Thus the flood could be on the 'earth' as seen by Noah .

Makes logical sense I guess, and by local, I really meant it more like what you are saying a somewhat limited flood, not just like what we see all the time on the news, not that small. I guess that as long as every man alive lived in that area it would explain the flood myths found in cultures all around the world too, well it would have to even if it was worldwide because they all had to originate from Noah’s family anyway. I guess the only thing that is still hard to put in that type of flood for me is it covering the mountains, but I can also agree that it was a completely different landscape and lower mountains could be a very viable explanation. I see where you're coming from and how it all adds up for to hold this view. Thank you for taking the time to answer my curiosity brother.
 
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More than local, but less than we think of as global. It was Noah's whole land that would be affected.

(What was the point of flooding Australia and America if mankind had not reached there?)

So America was not affected by the Flood so you say.

All those dinosaurs found in the Hell Creek Formation in Montana and the Dakotas didn't die in the Flood.

Many of those dinosaurs didn't die at the same time.

But they all died millions of years ago.

Do you agree with that?

If not, what part don't you agree with?
 
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LOL....I think some may think that because they don't really understand that the issues that some have are really just small matters when one understands the powerful way this Greek record of the Old Testament bears witness and agreement to the Hebrew-Aramaic text...and many don't understand that some copies, such a the Vatican copy, has some errors. But other copies are excellent sources of understand the intention of Gods Word.
So, you are saying that Codex Vaticanus has errors it would appear.

Codex Alexandrinus doesn't?

What about Codex Sinaiticus?

And the Masoretic Text contains no errors?

What about the Samaritan Torah?

Which of these manuscripts is correct?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
So, you are saying that Codex Vaticanus has errors it would appear.

Codex Alexandrinus doesn't?

What about Codex Sinaiticus?

And the Masoretic Text contains no errors?

What about the Samaritan Torah?

Which of these manuscripts is correct?
Well you might find some small differences between all these, knowing the Samaritan text are clearly written in the error of the Samaritians...where they agree they only bear witness to the truth that God has preserved.

I personally always look to the oldest accepted text...and believe the Alexandrian type text to be more dependable.
 
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You know I didn't like Kent Hovind much until I started reading and responding to this thread? GO Dr Dino...hope he runs for president :)
Well, having a convicted felon like Dr. Dino as president would be a first.

But I doubt a ticket with a YEC on it could win. There are not enough voters who believe the 6,000-year-old world nonsense to elect such a ticket.

Sarah Palin was the last YEC on the ticket and look what that did for the Republicans.

It gave us Obama.

Thanks a lot, YECs.
 
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I've said this before. Many Seventh-Day Adventists hold to the biblical creation beliefs, but they themselves didn't come up with it. That's a false belief that the SDA were instrumental in either birthing it or bringing it into the mainstream. It's you who needs to go and do your research. Not me.
Yes, you said it before and it was refuted before.

And you didn't respond when it was refuted.

You just spout the same nonsense over and over and do not defend your position.

Henry Morris, founder of one of your favorite YEC organizations, Institute for Creation, got his flood geology from Seventh-Day Adventist George McCready Price, who got his flood geology from fellow Seventh-Day Adventist Ellen G. White. Henry Morris is responsible for starting the modern YEC movement, which has become a cult.

Your YEC buddy popeye provided the link to this article, so thank him:

Henry Morris' Deception

Please note in the article, among other things:

"Morris and Whitcomb repackaged Prices’ discarded flood geology creationism into something that the fundamentalist and evangelical community finally embraced. The Genesis Flood was an instant success with 29 reprints and sales in excess of 200,000 by the 1980’s. It became the scientific support and justification for the belief in young earth creationism, especially since this movement was named creation science. One reason for its success, besides the more refined methods of persuasion in the book, is because Morris came from the mainline Baptist community rather than the fringe Seventh-day Adventist community as did Price. This made it more palatable for mainstream evangelicals. Morris and Whitcomb seemed to have predicted this Christian bias. In The Genesis Flood they do not credit George McCready Price’s work, The New Geology (1923), as being their single most influential resource. Again, The Genesis Flood is merely an updated version of The New Geology."

 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Well, having a convicted felon like Dr. Dino as president would be a first.

But I doubt a ticket with a YEC on it could win. There are not enough voters who believe the 6,000-year-old world nonsense to elect such a ticket.

Sarah Palin was the last YEC on the ticket and look what that did for the Republicans.

It gave us Obama.

Thanks a lot, YECs.
LOL ...you just cant stand to be wrong...can you?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
LOL . . . what are you talking about?
Its clear you cant have an honest discussion on any issue because you just have to pretend to be right...you cant stand being wrong and when others show you your errors in logic you just refuse to accept it.
 
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Its clear you cant have an honest discussion on any issue because you just have to pretend to be right...you cant stand being wrong and when others show you your errors in logic you just refuse to accept it.
Again, what exactly are you talking about?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Again, what exactly are you talking about?
It don't do no good to try and have a reasonable discussion with you about evidence and what is provable or even what is unclear...you think your right...even when its clear, you are wrong or at least in part in error. That's what Im talking about :)
 
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It don't do no good to try and have a reasonable discussion with you about evidence and what is provable or even what is unclear...you think your right...even when its clear, you are wrong or at least in part in error. That's what Im talking about :)
In order to make a statement like that, one should have at least several examples.

And your several examples are what, exactly?
 
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Well you might find some small differences between all these, knowing the Samaritan text are clearly written in the error of the Samaritians...where they agree they only bear witness to the truth that God has preserved.

I personally always look to the oldest accepted text...and believe the Alexandrian type text to be more dependable.
Isn't the Codex Vatinicas older than the Codex Alexandrinus?

And the Dead Sea Scrolls are older than both?

And your statement regarding you looking to the oldest accept text, you relegate the Masoretic Text to the bottom of the list then?
 
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The primary authority is the Hebrew text.
What makes you so sure about that?

The Greek manuscripts of the OT are around 900 years older than the Hebrew manuscripts.

Mitspa has said that oldest is bestest.

What say you?

You both can't be right.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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What makes you so sure about that?

The Greek manuscripts of the OT are around 900 years older than the Hebrew manuscripts.

Mitspa has said that oldest is bestest.

What say you?

You both can't be right.
Because OT Scripture was written in Hebrew with a little Aramaic. The Massoretic text is not perfect, but it is almost certainly based on the Temple texts. These were copied with extreme care and much attention was paid to ensuring their accuracy.
The discovery of Isaiah B at Qumran demonstrates how accurate it is.

The LXX is to some extent a mishmash. Some was carefully translated. Other parts not so carefully. And other parts were added to, although why we do not know on what basis. Its copying was not so carefully controlled. And we do not know how and when it may have been altered. Its provenance (the Egypt of Philo) counts against its full reliability. Egypt was less literalistic.

Thus we are wisest to take the MT as nearer to the original.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Isn't the Codex Vatinicas older than the Codex Alexandrinus?

And the Dead Sea Scrolls are older than both?

And your statement regarding you looking to the oldest accept text, you relegate the Masoretic Text to the bottom of the list then?
Yes and this sources are amazing in there agreement....They are the oldest and most reliable text...But the Alexandrian text type are generally considered the earliest and includes more than just the Codex Alexandrinus.

As Far as the Masoretic Text... It seems the most reliable source to those who have studied the issue..and again these text are amazing in there agreement with each other...and any difference is almost always explainable among honest believers seeking the truth.
 
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Its clear you cant have an honest discussion on any issue because you just have to pretend to be right...you cant stand being wrong and when others show you your errors in logic you just refuse to accept it.
I'm waiting patiently for you to justify this statement with the numerous examples you must be able to cite.
 
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I asked you to prove that Jesus use the LXX. when you have done that (or have admitted that you were wrong) then I will deal with your other questions.
This is your post #890.

You answered one of my questions in your post #898 where you said that the Apostles used the Greek manuscripts with discernment.

Before I go into proof that Jesus used the Greek manuscripts, why would you, it would appear, think that the Apostles used the Greek manuscripts but Jesus didn't?

I would think that the Apostles would have followed Jesus' example with respect to this issue.
 
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I don't get what you would call 'a local flood'. I get a vast flood which covered everywhere known to man, one which was carried down in folk lore. But that is different from a global flood.

Your statement above is from your post #901.

I asked you some questions in my post #903, which you did not respond to.

You likely are too busy bashing Catholics over on the "Catholic Heresy (for the record) thread.

I can't believe Jimbone, who also posted on that thread, didn't rebuke you for criticizing other Christians like you did.

You know, like he did me over and over and again and again on this thread.

In fact, that's about all he did.