Ministering to homospirituals

[PeterJens]

I agree guys the gospel appears simple.

But let me put one simple point. Simple by the way. The way you understand everything, literally everything goes through the filter of your brain, the readers and no one elses. It takes out what it does not like and adds in a background that is comfortable.

At each point the next step appears easy, but which is it? Look at this website, these simple ideas when planted in peoples hearts bring such variation. Sexual license. I am under grace so it does not matter who I have contact with.
I am under law, so one look, in the wrong way and I deserve death. I am perfect because I do not knowingly sin. I am a sinner because I stumble every now and then, and am very aware of my weaknesses. Everyone must know the trinity or they are lost. Without the emotional zap of the Holy Spirit it is just religion, failed hypocracy.

I am alone and empty and the Lord sounds nice, but no one cares. I follow Jesus but if God takes my child, that is too much. I hate my family because God told me I had to. Marriage is for life, even if abusive. Rape is ok if it is your wife.
Hell is eternal torture, where you are roasted screaming alive.

I could go through each statement and give you my perspective but it would not be short. All the above have been talked about, and the difference of opinion is vast. So it takes a lot of growth to take this on.

As a dad I smacked my kids. Rarely, and probably now I would not, but it showed for different people some things are terrible trauma, while others, like a day playing a rough game.

Why am I saying this? Because we need to take seriously we are the product of our life history, and that makes us come out with simple one off conclusions, which get jolted when we meet people from another background, who we then miss-understand and easily say, "they have a demon" rather than, that is interesting, why do you think like that?

 

[Reborn]

I've seen that about 1 John 1:8, a passage where John is addressing believers, which sticks out like a sore thumb, could not be more plain. Many, many times it's clear some don't understand painfully clear scripture, and one must wonder why,

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That's what l call the "big guns."

I'm think all of 1Corinthians 2, sums it up nicely.

 

[Chica]

Thats a good question. One thing that strikes me tho and I know it is true in my own life is that if I am protesting something too much or fighting against circumstance to much it tells me that my soul is stirred up and I am not resting in Jesus.

And yes..... I am aware of the irony here.

Another option is just flat out not knowing what Scripture says. For some around here their posts are such a tangle of idiousy there is no way to make sense of it.

 

[Utah]

Most Rep is not given to those who have a good reputation here, it based upon ego driven- treasure hunting.

What's really funny is the ego driven homospirituals have actually said they're not into the rep thing.

 

[Willie-T]

I do not doubt what you are saying, but what made you feel you had not met Jesus before but now have?

I put this in context, because in my walk with the Lord, I have found great joy is seeing His life in the most unusual situations, so I have not had this exclusive experience, but rather a changing from one point to grace to another, so it interests me you seem to be testifying to a significant break with your past.

VERY significant.

I was a "Christian" by means of mental assent and obtained knowledge... logical deduction, if you will. I was raised a Baptist, and absorbed many of their esoteric hang-ups. Then I "doubled-down", and joined the Church of Christ for my graduate work, where I got even "sounder" and "sounder" and "sounder" , sinking into the indoctrination of man's religion, and our perceived necessity to act, be, and look a certain way, in order to qualify as a "TRUE" Christian.

Then, after decades of this solid" teaching and living, a series of events had my wife and me looking for a church to attend that would match our expanding awareness of why Jesus walked this Earth. We probably attended two dozen different churches, of several denominations... even stayed at some for half a year, or so.... (One, Calvinistic place, about three years.)

I actually ran across The Vineyard because of all the naysayers I saw calling it a "cult." This piqued my interest (admittedly, just my humanistic desire for sensationalism kicking in... I wanted to make fun of them, too) But, as it turned out, when I got past all the "Haters" online, I found their genuine website. Dang! They seemed to read the Bible the same way I did, and believed in many of the same things I had come to understand as God's will. We had to go see for ourselves.

Well, there is only ONE Vineyard in all of the huge city I live in... it was a no-brainer as to which one to check out.

So we went....... and almost decided to never darken their doors again.

As "fate?" would have it, they were having a guest "band" and the leader was the preacher that day. Uggg! I hated it. My wife hated it. But something kept telling us to go back. We did. What a difference!

I think God might have been saying to us stuck-in-the-past worshipers of religion, "You ready to see why I sent My Son... or are you satisfied with the same sort of thing the Jews had perfected for themselves?" We were ready.

We immediately joined a "Grace" book study group. My eyes opened like I had never even known Christianity before. Two months into the study, I had a stroke that the doctors said should have killed me on the spot. But, in the hospital, where I was for a month, they never did a thing to me. No pills, no shots, no operation... nothing. Just "studied" me.

Well, about half way through the month, I was reading in bed (had the room to myself) somewhere after midnight, when I became aware of a "presence" sitting in the chair at the foot of my bed. Never really "saw" Him, nor had a verbal conversation with Him, but we shared three nights of just an "understood" sort of relating. And that was it.

From that night, forward, I knew that I had finally found what I thought I already had for all those years (three decades)

 

[JesusIsAll]

We are supposed to judge others by their fruits. I don't think this is the condemnatory type of judgement but just the see things as they are kind of judgement.

"Judge not" is an old Satanic straw man they try to morph into some notion the believer is to have no judgement, one would suppose must check their morals, their brains and their spirits at the door, when the admonition in scripture involves unrighteous judgement. "Don't shine a light on my lies. That's not Christ-like!" Well, duh, Matthew 23.

 

[Chica]

You guys. It makes me feel all warm all over. The thing you are suffering from is being way to serious, and I mean way to serious or should I say, way toooo serious.

Let me give an example. Because you said ....... you have a demon ....... only the pharisees could say that ...... legalism is your middle name ......... you do not even, sorry, EVEN believe Jesus is God, and call yourself a christian ...... huh.

Now anyone from any approximately christian background can come here. Without any filter on what the community believes or thinks. The first thing you read is a few sentences and wow, they are .......

But is that not why you are here to listen to this breadth of opinion, not filtered by denomination, experience, age, background. It is brilliant, a gift, something to learn from.

I once started asking people in a church I was visiting what they believed. Some thought Jesus was great, others reincarnation was probably true, some that they like the social life, others liked the emotional songs. It is only when neutral opportunity comes along you start to hear the true reality and not the pulpit filtered accepted version.

The guys in the corner often have something good to say, in one small area, but they are so alone, they do not see it is actually not that important, but in their mind it is. But they need as much love and help as anyone, and some might actually be right. What you will discover is the body of Christ only knows one consistent thing, they love Jesus.

I suppose the truth is you learn how well that is true for yourself depending on how you treat the rest of us poor souls.

By the way I might sound like I am mouthing off, I am just thinking aloud, and i could be as wrong as the last mental case from the hospital, but it helps my serious condition of being madly in love with the Lord.

Are you serious?

 

[Willie-T]

"Judge not" is an old Satanic straw man they try to morph into some notion the believer is to have no judgement, one would suppose must check their morals, their brains and their spirits at the door, when the admonition in scripture involves unrighteous judgement. "Don't shine a light on my lies. That's not Christ-like!" Well, duh, Matthew 23.

But, really, should it be, "I'll show everyone where you are wrong!" or should it be "Let me show you the "rightness" of Jesus."

 

[JesusIsAll]

Are you serious?

..... .....

 

[Sirk]

I agree guys the gospel appears simple.

I never said that the gospel "appears" simple. I said that it IS simple. Faith in Christ is a gift and it is enough to save us from what we truly deserve.

 

[Chica]

I use "you" tooooo many times. I have read on threads one person saying to another "You do not even believe Jesus is God ..."

If one starts to simply take peoples theology apart, one will find most of us have variations on what the incarnation meant.
Language does that to one, when one say a particular point, it is a summary which actually means different things to each reader.

One guy argued God, the trinity was present with every part of the Godhead. Another that God was truly just a man, though with an essential nature of God, another he was fully God as a man like a vessel. The problem is these are often words to describe thoughts, or language, which people may or may not hold to.

One guy suggested you could not be saved until you accepted the concept of the trinity.

What I am trying to get at, this forum is a way of exploring other peoples ideas, but that is all they are. Some will be spiritually wrong, up the creek, some nuts, some with very difficult backgrounds, but it is a good place to neutrally hear what is being said.

Some ideas like the little gods heresy is more spread than you might imagine, by people who I would suggest are not actually christian any more. Until we gain the tools of engagement, we can be very ignorant to the real battle that is raging in the church and the world.

I have found engagement changed the legitimacy of various positions held in the muslim community, which is critical to changing peoples understanding at a life, justice and social level, and not to become hijacked by the extreme right in politics, which is a dangerous road to walk down. Some parts of the "christian" church are just as dangerous if given the right agenda.

If one starts to simply take peoples theology apart, one will find most of us have variations on what the incarnation meant.
Language does that to one, when one say a particular point, it is a summary which actually means different things to each reader.

That's the main problem that some have on this forum, too much what they think and not enough scriptural reference.

 

[JesusIsAll]

But, really, should it be, "I'll show everyone where you are wrong!" or should it be "Let me show you the "rightness" of Jesus."

It's about every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, rightly divided. As to those who have rejected the rightness of Jesus, in their face, every waking day, one must conclude a demonstration of the rightness of Jesus, and He alone, holds no water with them.

 

[Willie-T]

It's about every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, rightly divided. As to those who have rejected the rightness of Jesus, in their face, every waking day, one must conclude a demonstration of the rightness of Jesus, and He alone, holds no water with them.

I sure hope I misunderstood what you just, so cryptically, wrote.

 

[Utah]

Thank you, but I believe I'm only, as you point out, stating things a lot of us see, all the time, pretty much just putting together the obvious we've most all commented on, from time to time. The only thought I've maybe articulated today that's not said much is how (and probably hadn't said it well, yet!) you come here with peaceful Bible understanding, and you leave assaulted, if you read much, at all. Willie-T was saying the same thing about simplicity. The truth is simple. It's perversion of truth that's complex, this why the perverters have to ramble on so much. You can't find their claims in harmonious exegesis, or let the Bible speak for itself, so you have to lay on the doctrines of men, and devils.

You know what's cool about Willie? He seems to be a bridge between folks with differing views. Sharing in a direct, straight forward manner with gentle understanding. I'd like to possess that gift but as for now I'm still turning over tables in the Temple against the Pharisees.

 

[PeterJens]

I remember something that made sense to me recently.

I love the Lord, and love is the key concept I follow in following Jesus.
So a christian says to me, "Oh, that is so victorian, old school, the times have changed we are beyond all that."

So I thought, who is this person. I pushed a few emotional buttons. "Do not try of analyse me, I am not falling for that"

It then struck me, they believed christianity failed, was merely religion, being nice above a cold heart, putting on a show, with nice meetings etc, but actually just intellectual assent. No the truth was being zapped by the holy spirit, emotional expression, elation, signs and wonders. That is where the power is.

So I was speaking a different language. The Lord broke into my heart and made himself real, showing my need and His supply. So the words have meaning depending on experience. I was told I did not walk with Jesus but satan. Why? I do not understand, because to deny Jesus and his love speaking you your heart is to deny the gospel.

Now if I can understand them and their language as well as myself, who has the Spirit of God? Language is odd in this way and certainly not simple.

 

[Willie-T]

That's the main problem that some have on this forum, too much what they think and not enough scriptural reference.

I truth, every single thing you, or I, or anyone else, believes the Bible really says is strictly a matter of interpretation.

 

[Chica]

Unfortunately, there is an us and them, which scripture speaks of, wheat and tares, false prophets, devils as angels of light. Would agree it's sad to get caught up in, very much, anyway, but it's an ugly reality. People should be careful, and lies should be refuted. There are those who are seriously perverting truth here, though, when it comes to all the repetition, it would be better not to engage it, as there are a few here who are just trolling. As long as there are people to bicker the same, worn bicker with, they will be here, as long they are being fed.

As long as there are people to bicker the same, worn bicker with, they will be here, as long they are being fed.

You got that right!

 

[Utah]

What's really funny is the ego driven homospirituals have actually said they're not into the rep thing.

On another note, I wear my infraction 1/0 (0) with honor. It shows my imperfection and the grace afforded me to still be part of this family. See how that works? Grace -- its a beautiful thing.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I never said that the gospel "appears" simple. I said that it IS simple. Faith in Christ is a gift and it is enough to save us from what we truly deserve.

Exactly. God is not the author of confusion. What part of this is not understood?

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

And the Spirit-filled see this, increasingly so of the word of God. I'm not confused. Ezekiel can get a little complicated, Revelation once was, but the Bible I know is not twisted into knots or of inaccessible truth, the longer I live, the simpler that truth. No need to, for instance, have "theories" of atonement. I get it, doesn't require an encyclopedia, and truth doesn't come in Baskin Robbins flavors.

 

[Rosesrock]

On another note, I wear my infraction 1/0 (0) with honor. It shows my imperfection and the grace afforded me to still be part of this family. See how that works? Grace -- its a beautiful thing.

I blame Adam rofl.....grace is awesome...we all come from the same place called sin