God loves the sinner and hates the sin.

[kennethcadwell]

Yes, what they don't want to hear is that Jesus defined repentance for us. That the Ninevites shall rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. We know that the Ninevites turned from their evil and wicked ways as a part of their repentance at the end of Jonah chapter 3. But will they see that? It is my prayer that they do.

I pray that they will see what true repentance means to, but unfortunately I have talked to many on here that have been lead so badly that they believer repentance means to only change in mind from unbelief to belief.
Some of them have even gone as far as say repentance has nothing to do with sin, and they do this because they want to cling to that false gospel of saved no matter how they walk/act/treat others badly.....

There are way to many scriptures that show how a person walks and acts determines if they are saved, even if they want to take and place salvation first then actions second which is not biblical, then you can still see a saved person will act accordingly to what the scriptures say.

A person can not continue to walk carnally minded as Paul was showing he walked in Romans 7 and have eternal life to, for Paul then says and shows in Romans 8 you have to walk spiritually minded for there to be no condemnation. Apostle John shows the exact same teaching in his epistle in chapters 2-4, that how a person walks shows if they have eternal life abiding in them. It is amazing that even though those passages are clear cut to where a elementary school child could read and understand, they are still denied by others of what they say or twisted by them......

 

[Jason0047]

Where's 1 John 1:8 ?

1 John 1:8 is in context to 1 John 1:7. So you cannot take it out of context. 1 John 1:7 is saying if we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth. This is the same thing that 1 John 2:4 says (in the next chapter but with different words). For it says, he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. Scripture says sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Let me ask you: How can you keep God's Commands (laws) by not being a liar and yet also break them at the same time as you supposedly think in 1 John 1:8?

Oh, wait. Let me guess. You believe you sin in the flesh but you do not sin in the spirit (Because Jesus paid all your sins spiritually: Past, Present, and Future). But that does not make sense because it is still a denial of 1 John 2:4 which says he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:8 is written as a warning to the brethren about the false gnostic belief that sin did not exist whatsoever. This is similar to what the Christian Scientists today believe. I know because I know someone who believed this when I was younger. They do not believe sin exists. This is essentially the heresy that John is trying to expose. Hence, why he tells the believer to confess their sin, if sin happens to arise in their life. But John does not want them to sin, though. He tells them in 1 John 2:1 to.... "sin not." Do you believe John when he says those words?

 

[Jason0047]

I pray that they will see what true repentance means to, but unfortunately I have talked to many on here that have been lead so badly that they believer repentance means to only change in mind from unbelief to belief.
Some of them have even gone as far as say repentance has nothing to do with sin, and they do this because they want to cling to that false gospel of saved no matter how they walk/act/treat others badly.....

There are way to many scriptures that show how a person walks and acts determines if they are saved, even if they want to take and place salvation first then actions second which is not biblical, then you can still see a saved person will act accordingly to what the scriptures say.

A person can not continue to walk carnally minded as Paul was showing he walked in Romans 7 and have eternal life to, for Paul then says and shows in Romans 8 you have to walk spiritually minded for there to be no condemnation. Apostle John shows the exact same teaching in his epistle in chapters 2-4, that how a person walks shows if they have eternal life abiding in them. It is amazing that even though those passages are clear cut to where a elementary school child could read and understand, they are still denied by others of what they say or twisted by them......

I agree my brother. But I still hope. For love hopes all things and it endures all things. It may seem hopeless. But I think we should never stop praying for them (Which I am sure you will agree). For we should continue to love and never give up on that. In fact, we should pray for them tonight. In fact, I call upon all brothers and sisters who are hearing this message to pray for those here this very night to pray for those who cannot see what the Bible is clearly saying in regards to it's many warnings. That way the light of the glorious gospel may shine unto them in love and truth. I ask my fellow brothers and sisters to call upon God to open their eyes to the truth. Let their be an awakening. I pray this so as to glorify Jesus Christ and His goodness.

Anyways, peace and love be unto you my brother.
And I do hope things are going well for you.

 

[SarahM777]

Are you saying the sin must stop otherwise it is rebellion, is that correct? I would agree with that. Not sure what you are trying to say different.

Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved? Some here believe that.
Do you believe future sin is forgiven you? Some here believe that.
Do you believe you will forever be a slave to your sin in this life? Most here believe that.
Do you believe you can be out of fellowship and still be saved? Alot of folks here believe that.
Do you believe 1 John 1:8 says you must have sin in your life otherwise you are lying? Alot of folks here believe that.
Do you believe that you can just generally live a holy life but it is okay if you sin those types of sins that lead unto death (Like lying, lusting, hating, etc.)?

You are confusing sins of rebellion with the other sins that are not listed.

So if you die with out repenting of your unknown of which you HAVE NOT been convicted of will you be saved?

The cross is a past fact. All sin was forgiven at the cross which is past,present and future,but it must applied in the present when we do sin.

Wrong question. The real question is are they in belief or unbelief?

Nope don't believe that,but I also know we have sins that we DO NOT KNOW WE ARE DOING. We do not love perfectly yet 100 % of the time and anything that is not out of perfect love is sin.

Did you not read what I said on this question? Again those are sins out of rebellion to God's laws. Rebellion is a form of hatred and unbelief and NO ONE WILL BE SAVED IN UNBELIEF. Love can not rebel. Love CAN NOT SIN.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You are confusing sins of rebellion with the other sins that are not listed.

So if you die with out repenting of your unknown of which you HAVE NOT been convicted of will you be saved?

The cross is a past fact. All sin was forgiven at the cross which is past,present and future,but it must applied in the present when we do sin.

Wrong question. The real question is are they in belief or unbelief?

Nope don't believe that,but I also know we have sins that we DO NOT KNOW WE ARE DOING. We do not love perfectly yet 100 % of the time and anything that is not out of perfect love is sin.

Did you not read what I said on this question? Again those are sins out of rebellion to God's laws. Rebellion is a form of hatred and unbelief and NO ONE WILL BE SAVED IN UNBELIEF. Love can not rebel. Love CAN NOT SIN.

The problem I see is that to many people are caught up in what I call a name it and claim it gospel message when it comes to sin.............

Nowhere in the bible does it state you have to know every single one of your sins by name in order to repent of it.
Lord Jesus and King David both give us prayers that shows a standard of how to pray for forgiveness, and both of them do not call out and say the sins by name. David even asks forgiveness for secret sins that he was not aware of doing;


[h=1]Psalm 19:12-13New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]12 Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression.

 

[SarahM777]

The problem I see is that to many people are caught up in what I call a name it and claim it gospel message when it comes to sin.............

Nowhere in the bible does it state you have to know every single one of your sins by name in order to repent of it.
Lord Jesus and King David both give us prayers that shows a standard of how to pray for forgiveness, and both of them do not call out and say the sins by name. David even asks forgiveness for secret sins that he was not aware of doing;


Psalm 19:12-13New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression.

The hard part I always had with it was the fact that too often it leaves one TRAPPED in sin,and we are left powerless and helpless to overcome it. God gave us what we needed to overcome sin and the devil. (But our problem is now we don't always walk in the spirit and we do stumble at times)

 

[kennethcadwell]

The hard part I always had with it was the fact that too often it leaves one TRAPPED in sin,and we are left powerless and helpless to overcome it. God gave us what we needed to overcome sin and the devil. (But our problem is now we don't always walk in the spirit and we do stumble at times)

Yes all believers do stumble at times which is why Apostle John says that if and when we do sin again we have an advocate with the Father in the Lord Jesus Christ that if you confess that sin you will be forgiven of it.

That is the difference between a true believer and one who is stuck under a false doctrine teaching, that rather or not they confess their future sins for forgiveness. A true believer will because they will be convicted by the Spirit that will lead them to continue to repent of their wrongs, as David continued to ask for forgiveness.

We are molded by the Holy Spirit unto perfection, it is not an over night transformation.
This is what John was referring to when he was talking about sins that lead to death and sins that do not lead to death. John was not saying some sins are acceptable and some are not. What John was saying is that sins that a believer is still struggling with in stopping but has repented of are those that do not lead to death. This is because not all sins are handled the same in every believer, as some struggle to stop certain sins as fast as others do.

If a person teaches that when you repent you automatically stop committing that sin from minute one or you are still unforgiven is teaching an overly self-righteous doctrine that is just as wrong as the easy-believism doctrine. For a believer can not walk however they want in the faith, and you also can not place yourself as better then others..........

 

[psalm6819]

Are you saying the sin must stop otherwise it is rebellion, is that correct? I would agree with that. Not sure what you are trying to say different (than what I am saying on that point).

Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved? Some here believe that.
Do you believe future sin is forgiven you? Some here believe that.
Do you believe you will forever be a slave to your sin in this life? Most here believe that.
Do you believe you can be out of fellowship and still be saved? Alot of folks here believe that.
Do you believe 1 John 1:8 says you must have sin in your life otherwise you are lying? Alot of folks here believe that.
Do you believe that you can just generally live a holy life but it is okay if you sin those types of sins that lead unto death (Like lying, lusting, hating, etc.)?
Do you believe repentance is a change of mind? Or do you believe repentance involves admitting sin (1 John 1:9) and forsaking it? (1 John 1:7).
(Please take note that a new convert merely has to admit they are a sinner; If they sin again, they need to confess their sin in order to be forgiven of it.).
Do you believe you have to confess sin in order to be forgiven of it so as to be saved?
Do you believe you have to forsake sin to be saved?

Answering these questons (as painful as it may be for you) will help me to know what you believe and where you are coming from.

You must, you must, you must, you must, you must exactly what part does Jesus play in this? is His grace insufficient?

Do you have children? do you understand that love overwhelms and overcomes? that no matter what they do your heart yearns to comfort and protect them???

If your child disobeys and touches the hot stove you don't turn on the oven and burn them worse

You put ointment on, comfort them. They realize your admonitions are to protect not control and are in agreement not rebellion.

Obedience stemming from trust and love not fear.

We have reverence for the Lord not craven fear.

God's love melts hardness of heart not threats.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Seriously. Is that it? Is that all you got? A wrong understanding on just one verse like 1 John 1:8? Surely Scripture would bear testimony of this truth elsewhere, no? But see, according to the context, such a view that you will always abide in sin (as per the wrong understanding on 1 John 1:8) cannot be supported. For 1 John 2:4 says he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. So if one is always in sin, then they are breaking God's Commands which means they are a liar and the truth is not in them. This is also repeated in 1 John 1:6, that says he that says he has fellowship with him and walks in darkness is a liar and the truth is not in him. Also, John tells the brethen to... "sin not."

See, the OSAS proponent's belief today is very similar to the gnostic belief. The difference is that the gnostic did not believe they could sin. I know this first hand because I remember growing up hearing about this type of false belief when I was younger. It was called "Christian Science." It denied the existence of "sin." We see this today with the OSAS proponent but yet they do a slight of hand magic trick to make it appear like they are obeying that verse but it is from a wrong perspective, though. In other words, the OSAS proponent believes that 1 John 1:8 says they sin physically in the flesh, but yet in the spirit their sin is automatically forgiven because Jesus paid the price for their sins: past, present, and future.

But that is not what 1 John 1:8 is saying. Nowhere does it say anything like that in 1 John chapters 1-5. It is all imaginary. 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren about these false gnostics belief whereby they denied the existence of "sin" .... sort of like the Christian Science people deny the existence of sin. This is why John says to ... "sin not." But if you do sin, you have an advocate named Jesus Christ that you can go to (1 John 2:1) whereby you can confess your sins so as to be forgiven of your sins (1 John 1:9). So the true believer does not deny sin if sin does happen to arise in their life. The gnostic belief is exposed by the fact John says.... if we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. This is a denial of sin's existence. Which is also what the OSAS proponent does but yet, they cover their bases by saying they sin physically but yet not spiritually. This is also a gnostic belief. That flesh is all bad and spirit is good. Jesus entered the flesh of sinful man and He still has a physical body right now. There is no glorified body. He still has the same flesh that we do. For if He did not, then He could not raise us from the dead like He was risen from the dead. It's why He took on our sins in His body.

I love how you guys like to twist and turn things.

John said, if we (we would include himself) say that we have no *the verb is ACTIVE VERB meaning it is ongoing at this time, and to reiterate it is now not past. it is also PRESENT TENSE) sin. we decieve ourselves. and there is no truth in us.

You can not twist that to say anything else. To try to do so is to distort what John said. Who gives you the right to change the meaning of someones words. just to suit your own fancy?

You have already proved your a liar and a deceiver, now your a manipulator (manipulating someone words to make him say something he did not)


But hey, Again, if you do not want to truly repent. thats on your eternal soul. not mine, I already KNOW where I am going (which is why I have faith, if I did not know where I was going, I would have zero hope. without hope. I can have no faith.)

But you do not take the word faith at face value either, or the word hope. or the word eternal. or the terms present tense active.

so how can we listen to you anyway?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As long as we live in the flesh we are subject to sin.
It is not what we want , it is not what God wants, but while the Spirit is saved and sinless, the flesh is not.
I hate sin. Every beliver I know or have know hates sin.
We try very hard to control the flesh and not sin. But unlike you we confess that we fail. Sometimes the flesh wins.
God wants us to be sinless, but He knows that because of us living in sinful flesh we will fail.
That is why he convicts us, chastises us, leads us to confess and forgives.
But He will never take back His promise of eternal life just because I fail from time to time.
Jason you are not sinless. You have lied about people on CC and have NEVER admitted it.
Jason you are deceiving yourself and calling God a lier when you say you do not sin.
I have placed my hope for eternal life in the hand of Jesus Christ and He said NO MAN can take me out of His hand. Not Satan, not you and not me.
I trust my Savior. You do not trust Him. You believe He is not strong enough to keep you. When He said Everlasting Life you do not believe Him.

I really feel sorry for you and other who limit the power of Jesus to keep you saved and think you must help him by living a sinless life.
While I pray that God will close you mouth, I also pray that you will see the power of my Savior.

His problem is (and those like him have the same problem) they do not understand what sin is.

They think it is not doing certain things. they have their own defenition of sin, and refuse to acknowledge Gods defenition of sin. Thus they have mae up their own righteousness. and have rjected the righteousness of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are sins that lead unto death and there are sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). Sins that do not lead unto death would be hidden or secret faults (Psalm 19:12) like breaking the speed limit or not taking out the trash last week. For he to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin. However, sins unto death are those sins that Paul lists several times in the New Testament that will cause a person not to inherit the Kingdom of God. Such sins would be lying, adultery, theft, murder, hate, and drunkenness, etc. They are called sins unto death because Paul says if you do these things, you will die (in Romans) and John says in Revelation 21:8 that these types of sins will lead one to experience the Second Death (Which is the Lake of Fire). Sins unto death have to be confessed and forsaken (See 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7).

Where do you come up with this religion?

Death means death in that passage.

If I go on a drinking binge, and get killed in a car accident because I was stupid enough to drive, I have sinned a sin unto death.

There are no differing degrees of sin in Gods eyes. James said yuo break THE LEAST of the commands (ALL OF THEM< NOT JUST THE TEN) You are found GUILTY OF THE WHOLE LAW.

What is the penalty for this? Cursed is he who does not CONFIRM and OBEY all the words of this law.

Your problem is, you do not realise your still under a curse. the cross of Christ is meaningless to you. thus it is powerless to you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You must, you must, you must, you must, you must exactly what part does Jesus play in this? is His grace insufficient?

Do you have children? do you understand that love overwhelms and overcomes? that no matter what they do your heart yearns to comfort and protect them???

If your child disobeys and touches the hot stove you don't turn on the oven and burn them worse

You put ointment on, comfort them. They realize your admonitions are to protect not control and are in agreement not rebellion.

Obedience stemming from trust and love not fear.

We have reverence for the Lord not craven fear.

God's love melts hardness of heart not threats.

Amazing is it not?

They claim you MUST MUST MUST, but in the same breath, they are not trying to earn salvation.

sounds like the true definition of being blinded by the heart with a hardened heart (they start to believe their own foolishness)

 

[psalm6819]

My voice is gentle as I can this Jason, what is your perception/idea/understanding of God's love?

I refer to your heart, how you feel He relates to you. Please do not quote acripture but in your own words

 

[MarcR]

Jason has been corrected often enough that anyone open to the truth will see his error.


Apart from an occasional reminder for the benefit of new-comers, Jason's rant is unworthy of a response.

 

[tribesman]

While I believe God gets angry at the sinner, I do not believe God actually hates them. How could He? He created them. Does it make logical sense to hate that which you create? God angry? Yes. They have a free will choice to do good. But to sit there and smash your train set you just built and scream "I hate you Mr Choo Choo train!" is not exactly the concept of God that I see. God is love. One needs to first understand that before even reading your Bible.

Maybe you think of hatred as something that american so called "hate groups" are propagating. God's hatred is not of such nature. God's wrath (hatred, anger) is holy, real and revealed from heaven "against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom.1:18). Or as it is written:

Psalm 5

[5] The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

You see here? Not only iniquity in and by itself but the men who work such. Take notice that the reprobates who will not repent and believe the gospel, the wrath (not love) of God abideth, remains, on such souls.

John.3

[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

There are several more scriptures which indicates that God indeed does have hatred against men, against real people. What is counted among the things which God hates are "A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren" (Prov.6:17-19). Body parts! Those things spoken of here are all seated on the bodies of men!

So it appears that God's hatred is not just against sin itself, it is also against impenitent and proud sinners. Sinners who are condemned to soul and body to destruction in hell, by God. Let noone therefore be drifted away into sophistry (such as "God loves the sinner and hates the sin") but rather keep on with what the word of God says about the matter even if they have a hard time of understanding it and it does not seem to "make sense" to their own understanding.

 

[Reborn]

1 John 1:8 is in context to 1 John 1:7. So you cannot take it out of context. 1 John 1:7 is saying if we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth. This is the same thing that 1 John 2:4 says (in the next chapter but with different words). For it says, he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. Scripture says sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Let me ask you: How can you keep God's Commands (laws) by not being a liar and yet also break them at the same time as you supposedly think in 1 John 1:8?

Oh, wait. Let me guess. You believe you sin in the flesh but you do not sin in the spirit (Because Jesus paid all your sins spiritually: Past, Present, and Future). But that does not make sense because it is still a denial of 1 John 2:4 which says he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:8 is written as a warning to the brethren about the false gnostic belief that sin did not exist whatsoever. This is similar to what the Christian Scientists today believe. I know because I know someone who believed this when I was younger. They do not believe sin exists. This is essentially the heresy that John is trying to expose. Hence, why he tells the believer to confess their sin, if sin happens to arise in their life. But John does not want them to sin, though. He tells them in 1 John 2:1 to.... "sin not." Do you believe John when he says those words?

I understand. You believe the forum is doomed for believing a Christian can, and will sin.

I can't speak for anyone else, all l can do is live and tackle todays issues.
I recognize that l'm not perfect, nor will l ever be.
I'm also realistic and l know l sin, l pray that He forgives me, and l believe He searches my heart and knows that l'm being honest when l repent.
I'm not so focused on future sins, just battling present ones.

That's all l can tell you. I'm sorry that you feel that the Lord isn't about love and a relationship with His Children, and more like a Drill instructor.
I have peace inside. By reading what you post ,you really seem to lack that.

You should let God guide you, and not those sites you copy and paste from,....... it really is an amazing feeling.

 

[Sirk]

I understand. You believe the forum is doomed for believing a Christian can, and will sin.

I can't speak for anyone else, all l can do is live and tackle todays issues.
I recognize that l'm not perfect, nor will l ever be.
I'm also realistic and l know l sin, l pray that He forgives me, and l believe He searches my heart and knows that l'm being honest when l repent.
I'm not so focused on future sins, just battling present ones.

That's all l can tell you. I'm sorry that you feel that the Lord isn't about love and a relationship with His Children, and more like a Drill instructor.
I have peace inside. By reading what you post ,you really seem to lack that.

You should let God guide you, and not those sites you copy and paste from,....... it really is an amazing feeling.

I get the compression that he reads something on the internet and then adopts it as his own....

 

[Reborn]

I get the compression that he reads something on the internet and then adopts it as his own....

I know.

He tackles the Bible like its a cookbook.

 

[Rosesrock]

I know.

He tackles the Bible like its a cookbook.

He's lonely and hungry for acceptance. He wants attention and gets it through negative reaction. Sad. He's not ignorant to what he does. But what he doesn't realize is for many it strengthens what we already know to be true.

 

[Tankman131]

I find it crazy that people expect believers to stop sinning before they convert.

First off that puts all the power in man's hands not God's, and man has shown he is fallen and fails all the time.
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Eph 2.8–9
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rom 7.7–10
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Gal 3.23-26
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rom 8.29
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Phil 1.6
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Phil 2.13
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb 13.20-21
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Heb 13.20-21
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5:17
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+john+1:8-10&version=NASB

God calls us to him in his love and mercy. He does not preach to the perfect (or self-proclaimed perfect) of this world. He spoke to adulterers, tax collectors, thieves, etc. he also knows they wont be perfect until the old man has completely died and we put on the new man. He tells us to go and sin no more, but he knew we would and we will. He even knew Peter would deny him three times outside the garden of gethsemane. When David went deep into sin for a while, he prayed in the psalms, restore to me the joy of your salvation. He didnt pray for God to restore his salvation, but the joy of it.

God is working in us and desires for us to stop sinning. If a "christian" does not desire to stop sinning, then they do not really believe. God calls us to stop sinning, but he knows until we are fully transformed we will fail.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+7