When does the rapture occur?

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GaryA

Guest
People who get caught up in forming [ the idea in their mind of ] how they want to respond to what is being said to them - even before they "hear and understand" what is being said to them - are destined to live out a one-way monologue ( what is in their mind only - i.e. - the meaning of both sides of the conversation comes from their own mind ) instead of having an actual conversation with another person - and accomplishing a true exchange of ideas...
In effect, they "have a conversation with another person" in their own mind -- where they can control the outcome - make it "lean" in the direction they want it to go -- thereby shaping the meaning of each side of the "conversation" to fit the result they desire. Thus, the meaning and intentions of the other person become definable by the person who is having this kind of "conversation" in their mind. Everything in the entire "conversation" is wrapped around a central premise ( i.e. - "I'm right! You're wrong!" ) to acheive this result. Nothing else matters...
 
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GaryA

Guest
You are ascribing offence to some really mild stuff.
"Oops! Missed again..." :p

I am not offended. I do not offend that easily.

I am saying:

"A much better discussion may be had if those who only seem to be interested in 'winning' would change their attitude and focus to something more apt to lending itself to having a good and useful exchange of ideas that would be more edifying."

( Whew - that was a mouthful! :eek: )

:)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Daniel 7:

[SUP]13[/SUP] I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the
Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. [SUP]14[/SUP] And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


I believe that the phrase 'Ancient of days' refers specifically to the Father.
I agree 100%.

I believe that "they come together" at the Second Coming of Christ. If they did not, "sit at my right hand" would cease... ;)
That is certainly a possibility. This would mean Christ returns before the Day of the Lord assuming a literal day. But the Day of the Lord could also last 1,000 years.

Another possibility is that God pours out His wrath making the earth Christ's footstool at which point Christ is permitted to come for His Second Coming. Christ then reigns for 1,000 years on earth with His ELECT. At the end of the 1,000 years then the Father returns with everyone else (1 Thes 4:13-17). This puts the rapture at the very end with the resurrection and judgment. This is the scenario which I think fits best. Otherwise Elin is correct and there is no 1,000 year earthly millennial reign of Christ, God and Christ would reign together on earth. And if they are together on earth for the 1,000 years, who is coming down in the city at the end? Is heaven empty?
 
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GaryA

Guest
This would mean Christ returns before the Day of the Lord assuming a literal day. But the Day of the Lord could also last 1,000 years.
The 'Day of the Lord' is both - 1000 years - and - the first day of that 1000 years.

Christ returns on that first day.

:)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
You guys have a non point.

shooting blanks once again.
How so?

Between affliction and after that tribulation is the Tribulation. Read between those words and you see nothing but evil, not divine wrath. God does not come to deceive. God does not need to shorten His own days of torment to spare His Elect. He shortens Satan's wrath to spare His Elect.

after that tribulation is where you have God's Wrath being poured out. The timing is confirmed at the Sixth Seal.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,991
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LOL. I live in Henderson neighbor:D:D.
My best friend Jerry Daugherty used to live in Henderson. We are in Fallon up here near TOP GUN SCHOOL. Love to see and hear those birds flying.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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How many times will Jesus return in clouds?

:)
I see one. If he is on earth reigning for 1,000 years then GOD comes down at the end (after the Mil), why can't Christ be with those who are alive and remaining to ascend back up into the "clouds" to meet all the Saints coming down with God? Christ said he will "raise them up" so He raises them up and everyone meets in the sky.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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The 'Day of the Lord' is both - 1000 years - and - the first day of that 1000 years.

Christ returns on that first day.

:)
This is my view as well. Its the only thing that seems to work and ties it all together. Christ has lot of enemies to defeat plus He has to reign before the last enemy, death, is defeated.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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My best friend Jerry Daugherty used to live in Henderson. We are in Fallon up here near TOP GUN SCHOOL. Love to see and hear those birds flying.
Nice. My college buddy was a Top Gun Instructor. He's since retired and works in the Pentagon.
 
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flob

Guest
why can't Christ be with those who are alive and remaining to ascend back up into the "clouds" to meet all the Saints coming down with God?
Because God is in Christ, and God is Christ.
Zech 14:3-4; Acts 1:9-11; John 1:1-2
 
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flob

Guest
Fails? We're talking about God here. The New Testament (and OT) God. God within Christ. He's always been in the Son,
and now He's embodied, forever, permanently, in the Human, Jesus. They don't have separate bodies. Separate Comings.
It's His people who join Him, Them, above, to return with Christ. Because now He has His counterpart, Gen 2:24; Rv 22:17
 
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GaryA

Guest
I see one -- at the time of the Second Coming of Christ - before the 1000-year reign...


If he is on earth reigning for 1,000 years then GOD comes down at the end (after the Mil), why can't Christ be with those who are alive and remaining to ascend back up into the "clouds" to meet all the Saints coming down with God? Christ said he will "raise them up" so He raises them up and everyone meets in the sky.
Because -- it is Christ who everyone is "going to meet" in the air... ;)

:)
 
May 26, 2015
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The rapture occurred when Michael the Prince of the Sanctuary stood up at the end of the Appointed times of the nations when there was war in the heavens and World War on the earth covering a period of thirty years [1914-1945].

So those waiting for it have missed it!

Durin this period, Michael [Christ] along with his army; cast Satan out of heaven and down to the vicinity of the earth where he now remains causing trouble and strife around the planet. The scriptural confirmation for this is found at Revelation 12:7-12.

Since then, we are now moving rapidly towards the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21) which unless cut short no flesh will be saved! However, these days will be cut short when the Prince of the Sanctuary who is waiting patiently, receives the signal from Almighty God and brings the tribulation to an end; thereby establishing his thousand year judgement period and the resurrection of all mankind who has died since Adam.

Then shall be fulfilled the prayer: "Let your kingdom came and let your will be done on earth."

So under God's heavenly kingdom all will once more be restored globally, as first intended in Eden.

Alexander
 
May 30, 2015
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The rapture occurred when Michael the Prince of the Sanctuary stood up at the end of the Appointed times of the nations when there was war in the heavens and World War on the earth covering a period of thirty years [1914-1945].

So those waiting for it have missed it!

Durin this period, Michael [Christ] along with his army; cast Satan out of heaven and down to the vicinity of the earth where he now remains causing trouble and strife around the planet. The scriptural confirmation for this is found at Revelation 12:7-12.

Since then, we are now moving rapidly towards the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21) which unless cut short no flesh will be saved! However, these days will be cut short when the Prince of the Sanctuary who is waiting patiently, receives the signal from Almighty God and brings the tribulation to an end; thereby establishing his thousand year judgement period and the resurrection of all mankind who has died since Adam.

Then shall be fulfilled the prayer: "Let your kingdom came and let your will be done on earth."

So under God's heavenly kingdom all will once more be restored globally, as first intended in Eden.

Alexander

Hilarious.

Encore! Encore!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,991
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A couple of things to comment on here. Yes we have the lesson of the Trinity but we also have infinite examples of each member of the Trinity carrying out different roles independently. We do not see the word, "God or Father" used interchangeably with "Jesus, Christ, or Son of Man" or with the "Holy Spirit." In other words, when Christ was crucified, we do not see any of the writers of the Gospel switch between Christ and God. None of them put the Father on the Cross and none put the Holy Spirit on the Cross. Each member of the Trinity is called out by name when they are mentioned and they are never interchanged although we are frequently reminded that they collectively are all ONE GOD. That said, you can not transpose the word "GOD" in 1 Thes 4:14 into "JESUS." These are two separate events. Both the Lamb and God the Father are mentioned separately throughout Rev 20-22.

Rev 20:4-6 would seem to be saying that Christ rules only with the Tribulation Saints (those beheaded) and that the rest of the dead do not live again until the 1,000 years are over. If that's the case, then you have Christ returning with a select group while everyone else remains in heaven. The idea of a select group i.e., the martyred of the GT, sorta has a similar connotation to an ELECT group, does it not? It is the ELECT gathered by Christ.

I see significant differences in descriptions between the Return of Christ and the Return of God. Out of necessity, both return to earth certainly by the time of the new earth because both are said to be dwelling with us in the new city on the new earth. So both Father and Son are returning. The question I have is do they return together or at different times? The evidence suggests that the Father returns before the Son which contradicts everything all of us have been taught and believe. However, if you align scripture as I did a few posts back it does appear to support this notion. It also supports the oft repeated phrase, "Sit at my right hand until I have made your enemies your footstool." This phrase appears 6 times in the Bible so it must have importance and it must be a concrete fact.

Psalm 110:1

The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

Matthew 22:44
‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”’?

Hebrews 1:13
But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?

I have always taken this to mean that God will pour out His wrath before Christ is to return. I still do but let's look at the original psalm by David in full context because it is then referenced 5 times later.

110 The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!


[SUP]3 [/SUP]Your people shall be volunteers
In the day of Your power;
In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning,
You have the dew of Your youth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”


[SUP]5 [/SUP]The Lord is at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall execute the heads of many countries.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.




In 2 Thes 1 Paul introduces the concept of a "rest" being given to those suffering when Christ is revealed in heaven. The "rest" the persecuted receive is with "us" (meaning Paul and others). Where are they resting?

WOW, your theology was scrambled in an high speed blender.

I cannot believe you missed these verses:

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

John 14:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him,
"Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father;
so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us
the word of reconciliation.

Hebrews 1:8 (NRSV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.