Young Earth Creation. Does it matter what you believe?

[JackH]

OEC is an attempt to make to so called science that will prove that God is a fairy tail, and not make science speak for itself.

That is an incredibly absurd statement.

So now you are calling OECs. like Hugh Ross for example, heretics?

Is that what you are doing?

Everybody is a heretic who doesn't believe in a 6,000 world, that dinosaurs coexisted with humans, and that there was a global flood 4,000 to 5,000 years ago?

Science does speak for itself.

But you YECs are not listening.

 

[crossnote]

Yawn.

Do you find a 6,000 world, dinosaurs coexisting with humans, and a global flood 4,000 to 5,000 years ago in science books used in public schools?

Do you find evidence of a 6,000 world, dinosaurs coexisting with humans, and a global flood 4,000 to 5,000 years ago at your major museums like the Smithsonian and Carnegie?

Do you find research papers in reputable scientific journals with evidence of a 6,000 world, dinosaurs coexisting with humans, and a global flood 4,000 to 5,000 years ago?

NO, NO, NO.

And the reason why, according to most of you YECs, is some grand conspiracy.

But then, you probably believe Dr. Dino when he said the U.S. government was behind 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombings.

YEC pseudoscience is lame as a three-legged dog.

It's God's Word I believe and unbiased science. It's your perogative to hold to pseudo science which contradicts Scripture.

 

[Tankman131]

I called you a disrespectful youth, because you have been very disrespectful to older folks on other threads, not because you back OEC. When I was talking about the false prophets wearing lab coasts I was referring to evolutionists, secular humanists, and Atheists.

COme to full age.

Older people? Its the internet how am i supposed to know someones age? Let alone the truthfulness of claimed age?

 

[JackH]

It's God's Word I believe and unbiased science. It's your perogative to hold to pseudo science which contradicts Scripture.

What have major federal court decisions said about your YEC pseudoscience?

 

[Tankman131]

It's God's Word I believe and unbiased science. It's your perogative to hold to pseudo science which contradicts Scripture.

Im curious as to how you guys qualify psuedoscience, because ive seen it used very incorrectly lately. Depending on what you are claiming is psuedoscience i may agree with you or may ask how you could possibly back up the claim.

 

[Tankman131]

What have major federal court decisions said about your YEC pseudoscience?

Jack you have the issue of being an idiot in how you treat people and how you think YECs are dumb. Yecs can hold asinine antiscience views but that doesnt mean all YECs are antiscience. Dont pull the same crap tintin was pulling earlier by saying scientists are all naturalists.

If everyone would try to treat the other with respect, consider each others arguments, and move on then this thread might not have to be a bash war

 

[crossnote]

I don't know about the death part or what folk mean about that?, although i have heard some say that the first man adam knew what death was because he may have observed plant life,animals, creatures dying, also adam may have observed spiders eating their prey and maybe even other creatures eating other creatures, so adam could have known what death was before sin. Maybe it is possible that the universe, the sun, stars, planets and their moons and of course planet earth itself is indeed very old?, maybe it is possible that plant life, man, animals are less than ten thousand years old?

Romans 8:20-21 (NET)
20 For the creation was subjected to futility – not willingly but because of God who subjected it – in hope
21 that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of decay into the glorious freedom of God’s children.

So through Adam's sin creation suffered not before.

 

[JackH]

Older people? Its the internet how am i supposed to know someones age? Let alone the truthfulness of claimed age?

You forgot to tell him that you are a French model. Bon jour.

What are those lab coasts he is yapping about?

Please point out to him that OECs are not evolutionists.

And there are many Christians who do not believe that the world is 6,000 years old, dinosaurs coexisted with humans, and there was a global flood 4,000 to 5,000 years ago.

And said Christians can back that up with Scripture.

 

[crossnote]

Im curious as to how you guys qualify psuedoscience, because ive seen it used very incorrectly lately. Depending on what you are claiming is psuedoscience i may agree with you or may ask how you could possibly back up the claim.

True Science sticks with what it observes. Pseudo science injects it's presuppositions into the mix and turns theory into 'fact' where all along it should be theory...it should be called 'agenda science'.

 

[JackH]

Romans 8:20-21 (NET)
20 For the creation was subjected to futility – not willingly but because of God who subjected it – in hope
21 that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of decay into the glorious freedom of God’s children.

So through Adam's sin creation suffered not before.

Of course, there are those who do not agree with you, and back it up with Scripture:

Reasons To Believe : Animal Death Before the Fall: What Does the Bible Say?

 

[crossnote]

You forgot to tell him that you are a French model. Bon jour.

What are those lab coasts he is yapping about?

Please point out to him that OECs are not evolutionists.

And there are many Christians who do not believe that the world is 6,000 years old, dinosaurs coexisted with humans, and there was a global flood 4,000 to 5,000 years ago.

And said Christians can back that up with Scripture.

proves nada. There are 'christians' who deny the Jesus is God in the flesh.

 

[JackH]

True Science sticks with what it observes. Pseudo science injects it's presuppositions into the mix and turns theory into 'fact' where all along it should be theory...it should be called 'agenda science'.

True science is found in museums like the Smithsonian and Carnegie.

Pseudoscience is found at Dr. Dino's (Kent Hovind) Dinosaur Adventure Land (until it was shut down by the government when Dr. Dino went to prison) and Ken Ham's Creation Museum in Kentucky where he is now building Ham's Ark (full-size replica of Noah's original).

Oh, and Ham is now bragging he is going to rock the world and prove dinosaur bones are thousands as opposed to millions of years old.

Can't wait for that farce.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't know about the death part or what folk mean about that?, although i have heard some say that the first man adam knew what death was because he may have observed plant life,animals, creatures dying, also adam may have observed spiders eating their prey and maybe even other creatures eating other creatures, so adam could have known what death was before sin. Maybe it is possible that the universe, the sun, stars, planets and their moons and of course planet earth itself is indeed very old?, maybe it is possible that plant life, man, animals are less than ten thousand years old?

Nothing in scripture states Adam saw death, so if you hear that it is outside the word of God. Scripture states, death and decay was a result of the fall which was the result of sin.

That is the issue we aught to have with the gap theory (it is the flaw which Got me to question it.

 

[crossnote]

Of course, there are those who do not agree with you, and back it up with Scripture:

Reasons To Believe : Animal Death Before the Fall: What Does the Bible Say?

Irons is simply wrong in reference to saying Rom 8:20-21 is speaking of the non human aspects of creation and using that as an argument against YEC. Sure, it is speaking both of the non human and human parts of creation's fall caused by Adam's sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is an incredibly absurd statement.

So now you are calling OECs. like Hugh Ross for example, heretics?

Is that what you are doing?

Everybody is a heretic who doesn't believe in a 6,000 world, that dinosaurs coexisted with humans, and that there was a global flood 4,000 to 5,000 years ago?

Science does speak for itself.

But you YECs are not listening.

No more obsurb that your arguments.

lol. No, Your OECs are not listening, Your stuck in your mindset, and nothing will change your mind. I came to the light, because I opened my mind, or I would still be an OEC

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What have major federal court decisions said about your YEC pseudoscience?

and this would mean anything?

The federal court is not perfect.

 

[flob]

Thomas Chalmers was a heretic and surrounded himself with unbelieving scientists.

I've never heard of him

If you believe in GAP, you suggest that Satan is more powerful than God and God could not get it right the first time.

To the contrary: God has 'permitted' Lucifer to rebel. In effect to use him as a tool. And no, there's no way Satan can win.
Cf
The Scripture says to Pharaoh, For this very thing I have raised you up, that I might show in you My power, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth

Stop relying on 2 very out of context scriptures found In Jeremiah 4 and Psalm 104 to build the case that Satan flooded the earth once, then God created and made it back.

I've not heard of those Scriptures being used that way before.
Jeremiah 4 appears to me to be His correction of Israel.
Psalm 104, on first glance, appears almost to be 'anti-gap'! In that His covering the earth with water sounds like His original creation.
In any case, I agree with Psalm 104 that God flooded the earth

Scofield was a fraud, tax cheat, alcoholic, and an emotional abuser of women and children.

Fraud.........in what way? I'm sorry to hear of the rest. May the Lord have mercy on us all in that day

The Bible does not support 2 world wide floods.

Do you think Psalm 104:6,
You covered it with the deep as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains,
refers to the flood at Noah?
I'm certain, sir, you don't think Genesis 1:2, 9 refers to that flood.
But the earth became [or, if you prefer: And the earth was] waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters...And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear

Put down the Dake/Scofield pipe and come back to the Word.

Amen. I use neither. The one mention of Dake here, which I encountered in a thread, I think I disagreed with and criticized.
Scofield interpreted some things improperly (for example I think Eph 4:7-11), and some things accurately

 

[valiant]

lol.. Again your view.

I wouldn't state it if it wasn't my view. I suppose you receive your words directly from God? You certainly try to make it sound as if you do. Funny how you get it all so wrong then

But moses wrote it, God told him what to write for HIM and everyone who read it in a way they would understand it.

Well I'm not sure that Moses wrote it. He compiled Genesis from earlier records. But we can agree that he incorporated it in Genesis. However I think that God is a little more intelligent than you think He is.

He said evening and morning were the first day. Moses understood that to mean only one thing,

So you have a direct line to Moses? Why didn't you tell me? How can you possibly know what it meant to Moses? You are deceiving people again.

What you mean is that it means only one thing to you because your mind and understanding is not geared to recognising the problems. I don't suppose that it has struck you that a day is not made up of an evening and a morning? That would require mental thought. ESPECIALLY as we are clearly told that there was no evening on the first day in the sense of opening it. It began with total darkness. How could that be described as evening? So immediately we discover the description is fictitious. Whatever it was it was not evening and morning. There was no evening opening the first day. I didn't expect you too spot that, but I am sure wise old Moses would have. Why then did he speak of evening when there was none? One possible reason as that he was simply using a conventional envelope indicating opening and closing. More likely he saw evening as ENDING the 'day' which he was describing. The Hebrew word means the END OF THE DAY. He is saying 'the ending and the beginning was of the first period of light' (in Gen 1 'day' = period of light - verse 5).

So possibly Moses meant a different thing from what you thought?

Moses would never think the days time periods were different on the first 3 days than the last three only because their was no sun or moon yet.

What a thicky he must have been. His Egyptian education clearly did him no good. He talked about 'days' (periods of light) then said that their length was not determined until the fourth day, and did not see his inconsistency? One has to wonder about his IQ.

Of course another interpretation might be that he was quite intelligent, and did not see the creative days of God as being in mind in YOM 4.

He probably did not even think of this.

Personally I rate him more highly than you and think that he did. With your esp of what he thought you must ask him LOL

Because his mind was focused on what God did,

Well Genesis 1 is so carefully planned and laid out that it is clear that he thought about things a great deal. So I am unable to agree with you. I think he actually THOUGHT about it (unlike you). He was not fixated with a 24 hour day theory. Indeed he did not know what a 24 hour day WAS.

not like some people who want to make a mountain of of a molehill and make it say more..

That was on YOM 3. LOL The molehills became mountains. well done. you spotted that .

 

[JackH]

The federal court is not perfect.

The beauty of the federal court decisions on the matters of which we speak is that YEC expert witnesses had to testify under oath and be cross-examined.

It's not like a forum like this where you YECs can run your mouths and ignore it whenever you are refuted and you keep on regurgitating all the same YEC talking points.

So YEC expert witnesses testified in federal court and what happened?

They got raked over the coals by judges who said they distorted evidence and misrepresented science.

I've scrutinized all the major federal court decisions on the matters of which we speak and I will be quoting from them sooner, or later.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wouldn't state it if it wasn't my view. I suppose you receive your words directly from God? You certainly try to make it sound as if you do. Funny how you get it all so wrong then



Well I'm not sure that Moses wrote it. He compiled Genesis from earlier records. But we can agree that he incorporated it in Genesis.



So you have a direct line to Moses? Why didn't you tell me? How can you possibly know what it meant to Moses? You are deceiving people again.

What you mean is that it means only one thing to you because your mind and understanding is not geared to recognising the problems. I don't suppose that it has struck you that a day is not made up of an evening and a morning? That would require mental thought. ESPECIALLY as we are clearly told that there was no evening on the first day in the sense of opening it. It began with total darkness. How could that be described as evening? So immediately we discover the description is fictitious. Whatever it was it was not evening and morning. There was no evening opening the first day. I didn't expect you too spot that, but I am sure wise old Moses would have. Why then did he speak of evening when there was none? One possible reason as that he was simply using a conventional envelope indicating opening and closing. More likely he saw evening as ENDING the 'day' which he was describing. The Hebrew word means the END OF THE DAY. He is saying 'the ending and the beginning was of the first period of light' (in Gen 1 'day' = period of light - verse 5).

So possibly Moses meant a different thing from what you thought?




What a thicky he must have been. His Egyptian education clearly did him no good. He talked about 'days' (periods of light) then said that their length was not determined until the fourth day, and did not see his inconsistency? One has to wonder about his IQ.

Of course another interpretation might be that he was quite intelligent, and did not see the creative days of God as being in mind in YOM 4.



Personally I rate him more highly than you and think that he did. With your esp of what he thought you must ask him LOL



Well Genesis 1 is so carefully planned and laid out that it is clear that he thought about things a great deal. So I am unable to agree with you. I think he actually THOUGHT about it (unlike you). He was not fixated with a 24 hour day theory. Indeed he did not know what a 24 hour day WAS.



That was on YOM 3. LOL The molehills became mountains. well done. you spotted that .

well we know one thing, you claimed Moses compiled genesis from earlier records.

I guess you were there and have proof of this?

Your a hypocrite my friend, You use the arguments against me you use yourself. thus there is no need to diologue anymore. It is obvious all you deisre to do is argue.

I know this. All scripture is God breathed.

This God is the one who wrote scripture through the hands of men.

Now you either take scripture at its word (meaning God told or wrote through moses the whole creation account) or you reject it (God did not breath the words into moses, he copied it from earlier mens writings) and see yourself as a man who denies scripture.

when you figure out which one you are. come talk to me. maybe you will have found your error then, or show you continue to recect Gods word as Gods word. in which case, this is a bible study forum, why are you here?