Pride goes before destruction

kennethcadwell · Jun 18, 2015

I have done a history study on the origin of the OSAS doctrine because I was once in it myself at one time tell biblically studies guided by the Holy Spirit showed it to be false. The Holy Spirit also guided me to multiple writings of the 1st century church, and in all of them they all taught different and never even mentioned the concept of once saved always saved.

I have even posted many of those documents on here, as well as passages from them.
They have been constantly rejected even though they came from either an Apostle mentioned in the bible, or of the disciples that understudied under the original Apostles. They always use the excuse that because it is not in the bible it does not apply. So the words of the Apostles of what they taught does not apply??? Bad study attitude for those who are really interested in seeking the truth......................

Jason0047 · Jun 18, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying this person's Historical study is wrong somehow?

In any event, I am not dogmatic on matters of History (outside the Bible); It is not as important or as authorative as the Bible itself, though. For we will not be judged by man made history, but we will be judged by the Word of God (John 12:48).

kennethcadwell · Jun 18, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I know what James says and I know that scripture from Hebrews I already explained to seek out holiness means.
Then you bring in the double minded man scripture that is once again speaking of habitual sinning. For a double minded man believes they can serve the Lord and continue to serve their habitual sin lifestyle.
Nobody at least not me is saying God approves of sin so please stop bringing that up, because stating that is the same fruitless and false debate and accusation as those who claim those who don't believe in OSAS teach a works to earn salvation doctrine. They are both false and fruitless lies to use in debates.

Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead because the blasphemed the Holy Spirit................Lying to the Spirit is blasphemy !!!

Which blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable so once again you are using a flawed debate to compare the unforgivable sin to all others.........You can not do that !!!

This and I never said those two were saved, as I debated against others who have just recently tried to say they were.
A person who blasphemies the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven and therefore will not have salvation, which is why the Holy Spirit struck them dead; Because of their blasphemy toward Him !!!

kennethcadwell · Jun 18, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Well I did a study on this because I was once caught in this doctrine.
The term once saved always saved was coined by John Calvin, and was not taught by that wordage before him. The ideal of eternal security was taught in that way a little before him, but did not take off tell his doctrine made it main stream. Still the fact remains that neither eternal security nor OSAS was taught in the 1st century, and there is many of documents to look at from that time period to prove that.

The bible is the authorative word but to deny that the Holy Spirit will guide a person to other people or sources to help with understanding would be a false and bad way to understand studying. Especially when the fact remains that not all of Paul's writings as well as other Apostles writings were left out when the bible was put together. The writings we have in the bible are not the only ones from the Apostles that existed back then.

Apostle Barnabas for one has a few writings not included in the bible, and he was Apostle Paul's understudy before Timothy.......
In his writings he shows it very clear that once saved always saved was not what was taught........

cmarieh · Jun 18, 2015

Jeremiah 13:15-18

15 Hear and give ear: Do not be proud, For the Lord has spoken
16 Give glory to the Lord your God Before He causes darkness,
And before your feet stumble On the dark mountains, And
while you are looking for light He turns it into the shadow of
death And makes it dense darkness.
17 But if you will not hear it, My soul will weep in secret for your
pride; My eyes will weep bitterly And run down with tears,
Because of the Lord's flock has been taken captive.
18 Say to the king and to the queen mother, "Humble yourselves;
Sit down For your rule shall collapse, the crown of your glory."

Proverbs 29:23
A man's pride will bring him low, But the humble in spirit will
retain honor.

Tonight in my studies God pressed upon me to share this before I take a break from CC for a little while that in everything we say and do whether it is here or in our day to day life in our jobs or families we are instructed to show humility. Showing humility does not mean that we are to be doormats whom everyone can walk all over. It is true that God does not want us to be arrogant and proud, but humility before the Lord results from an inner attitude by which we live in absolute surrender to His Lordship over our lives. In God's system of things, a man is promoted when he is humble and lowered when he is proud. To be humble is to be childlike and submissive unto God.

Pride is the greatest destroyer. Satan fell because of pride - because he wasn't satisfied to be God's "right-hand angel". He wanted to take God's position.

Please everyone when you post something or say something to someone please ask yourself if you are being prideful or showing humility, I choose to show humility in everything.

Utah · Jun 18, 2015

Jason0047 said:

The verses you pick do not oppose one another but rather coincide with one another.

Where's the contention?

Utah · Jun 18, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Or, you can put up or shut up by stating what you believe the Truth to be within those verses.

Utah · Jun 18, 2015

Reborn said:

There have been intriguing developments taking place between pages 22-24. Ken's eyes are opening and Jason's blasphemous ego is on full display like never before.

Utah · Jun 18, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Ax murderers? Is that the best you can come up with? Seriously?

News alert: your self righteous blasphemy far outweighs the sinful act of ax murdering.

Jason0047 · Jun 18, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

First, you ignored the verses I brought up here that show that we used to be sinners but we are not that way anymore.

"For we ourselves also were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." (TItus 3:3).

"Thorns and snares are in the path of the wicked:
whoever guards his soul stays from them." (Proverbs 22:5).

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will (2 Timothy 2:26).

"Once you were alienated from God and you were enemies with him in your minds, which was shown by your evil actions." (Colossians 1:21).

"For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;" (1 Thessalonians 1:9).

"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death. Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:14-15).

"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness" (1 John 5:19).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

"For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry." (1 Peter 4:3).

"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

"But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger" (Romans 2:8).

"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance," (1 Peter 1:14).

"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad" (Matthew 12:30).

"He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you." (Romans 6:17).

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

Jason0047 · Jun 18, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Second, you also did not explain these verses, as well.

"And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (1 Peter 4:18).

Is a person righteous if they never really live righteously for all that long in their life? This lets us know that one has to live righteously before God whereby the produce fruit for Him. Yes, I believe God's grace can forgive people many, many, many times. 70 x 7; And can even save men like the thief on the cross (Who did not get a chance to live out their faith). But as for the believer who walks with God and does have to live out their faith: There has to come a point where they produce fruit for God. There has to come up a point where they are walking with God in His good ways. Being a sinner is described as being a part of one's past life. Being a sinner it is not a part of a believer's life. We are supposed to be slaves to righteousness and not slaves to sin. One is either a slave to one or the other. You cannot be a slave to both.

I also mentioned, Matthew 18:8-9 that says,

"Therefore if your hand or your foot offend you, cut them off, and cast them from you: it is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed,rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if your eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."

Does the above sin sound like you can keep doing it as long as you confess of it? Does it sound like you can plan to do it on certain occasions as long as you confess of it? You know, certain Catholics sin during the week and then confess those sins at the end of the week to a priest. Is this how we are to live with God? Always wanting to do whatever we like and then confess of it? Can we even live for God for a short time and then just go right back into sinning again? This is why I say that a double minded man is doubled minded in all he does. For a man can go to a spiritual retreat and do the things of God or he can go to church and believe he is doing good there. But both Jesus and Paul talks about doing good behind closed doors. They talk about doing good all the time and not just sometimes. Yes, I understand believer's can struggle with sin and God's mercy and grace is there for them. He can forgive a lot. But if we just keep going back to sin at some point always, then there is something seriously wrong in our walk with God that needs to be addressed.

These words I say to you apply to me just as they would apply to everyone else. I do know what it is like to struggle with sin. I am not immune to falling into the trap of going down the wrong road. But with Christ, we have the strength to stop sinning. The question is: Do we as believers want to stop sinning? Most here are against the idea. But is not Jesus the great physician who is supposed to heal us? Shall sin have dominion over us?

Also, Jesus defined repentance for us, so you cannot change what that actually means. Repentance is turning away from your wicked ways. For Jesus said the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3 (towards the end of the chapter), we learn that the Ninevites had turned from their evil and wicked ways a part of their repentance.

Jesus told the woman who was caught in the act of adultery to.... "sin no more." Does it sound like Jesus was saying.... "sin no more." But you can sin on occasion as long as you confess it. Does it sound like He was saying that? No. John says to .... "sin not." Yet, he says that if you do sin, you have an advocate. Not so that you can forever live in periods of holiness and then sin, periods of holiness and then sin for the rest of your life. God wants you to forever put away sin. Yes, I understand God's grace can cover men who do struggle with sin and it ultimately up to God to make that decision if a man is truly living righteously or not. But Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruits. If fruit on a person's tree is there and then not there and then it is there and then not there, there is a serious problem.

As for Luke 18:13: This was in view of the Pharisee thought he was better than the Tax Collector. He actually thanked God that he was not like him even when he himself needed a Savior and needed to be humble before God. Paul and the other apostles did not live a life of being on their knees all the time. They were too busy preaching the gospel and loving others. They were mature and seasoned believers. Yes, God's grace and mercy is there for a person who struggles with sin. Another lesson in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee is not striving to attack another man or think you are better than him because it was by God's grace that we came into His Kingdom and were born again. For it's a parable about being humble. However, the church is supposed to help those who struggle with sin (James 5:14-16).

Jason0047 · Jun 18, 2015

Jason0047 said:

This brings up 1 John 1:9 whereby we confess our sins so as to be forgiven of our sins. But we also have to look at the other part of the verse, too. For it says he can cleanse us from all unrighteousness in 1 John 1:9. Yet, many folks here are saying they will never be able to be cleansed of all unrighteousness.

Jason0047 · Jun 18, 2015

1 Peter 4:1 says they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin. Does it sound like they have ceased from sin in 1 Peter 4:1 or not?

Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Does it sound like the "they" in Galatians 5:24 have crucified the affections and lusts or not?

Peter identifies certain false prophets who cannot cease (stop) from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14).

Jesus says we will know false prophets by their fruits.

John says he that does righteousness is righteous.

Jesus says this in Revelation to certain churches,

"And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write:

These things says He who has the sharp two edged sword: "I know your works
and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name,
and did not deny My faith... But I have a few things against you, because you
have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a
a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols,
and to commit sexual immorality... Repent or else I will come to you quickly and
will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him
who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him
a white stone, and on the stone a new name which no one knows except him
who receives it." (Revelations 2:12-17) (Pergamos is known as the compromising church).

And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

"These things says the Son of God, who has the eyes like a flame of fire, and His
feet like fine brass: "I know your works, love, service, faith and your patience;
and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a
few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel who calls herself
a prophetess, to teach and seduce my servants to commit sexual immorality
and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual
immorality and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and
those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent
of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches will know
that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of
you according to your works. " (Revelations 2:18-23) (Thyatira is known as the corrupt church.)

Jason0047 · Jun 18, 2015

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:14).

Folks here are saying sin will have dominion over them. Yet Paul says sin will not have dominion over you. Who am I going to believe? Paul or everyone else here?

Sirk · Jun 18, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Have you ever lost your salvation?

Viligant_Warrior · Jun 18, 2015

Sirk said:

Of course not! Those who claim it can be lost have never actually lost theirs. They're so "pure" and "undefiled," don't you know?

Don't expect him to answer, by the way. None of them I've ever asked have responded, online or face to face.

Sirk · Jun 18, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

I suppose that's what "sets them apart" from us heathen.

tribesman · Jun 18, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

So here we have another discussion, which we also had before: do our bibles contain in full the written Word of God to us, or not? Your position on that differs from most of us here.

Viligant_Warrior · Jun 18, 2015

Sirk said:

Well, if you hover your cursor over the green bars under Jason's name, it says " ... a name known to all." I'm sure that strokes his ego like nothing else on this board. And I can't even argue with it. The question is, how is it known?

BradC · Jun 18, 2015

If we can cease from sin in this life, then why send Jesus to come and shed his blood and be crucified? Just give us the Spirit because we already have the law. What in the world would I need grace for if I can keep the law.

I think that having a desire to cease from sin is having a desire for the righteousness of God and in order to live righteously in this present evil world we are going to need the grace of God through the Spirit to do it. To suffer in the flesh is to resist the sin that dominates the members (or cells) of our flesh. When we do so by grace, we cease from having the flesh dominate the members of our body of flesh. Christ is the one who has crucified the affections and lusts of the flesh through death and has raised us up so that sin does not have to have dominion over us. We have to appropriate that by faith and if we fail we receive grace and go on, not excusing our sin but knowing that it was crucified so that we don't live in any condemnation of it. We are free from the sin and its condemnation because of the cross. Christ was crucified in our stead and was condemned for our sin through death, even the sin we commit after we are saved by grace and receive his imputed righteousness.

Rom 8:31-34

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Pride goes before destruction

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