Pride goes before destruction
- Thread starter InSpiritInTruth
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Helping those who are sufferng physically is also a part of sharing the gospel. They are both important. But preaching the gospel is our primary or ultimate mission. For an unbeliever can also help people that are suffering, too. But that does not mean they are saved and or that they are doing it for Christ, though.
K
I have already told you more than once how depression takes and messes with the persons ability to think straight.
Yet you still want to disagree with this even though a person who has personal experience is telling you the truth with this disorder. Why don't you believe the truth when one is showing it to you, as even though you have been shown clearly their thought process is not working properly you still want to say it is..........
And I missed the part wanted to speak on this;
I saw a discussion was mentioned about did Paul have fellowship when he was in prison ???
Yes he still did, as his fellowship was not broken by standing up for God's ways instead of mans ways in which is why he was put in prison. God did not take away fellowship with him just because he went to prison.
If you are talking about with other believers well then the answer could still be yes for if he converted anybody while he was in there then fellowship with others continued. Paul's fellowship with the Lord never ended !!!
K
No you are the one misusing those scriptures and your pride refuses you to see this.
Look your are right at what you say in some areas when it comes to the bible, but in others you are off the mark. You are not the only person in the world that has the bible complete truth 100% like you claim. I have caught you in a few areas since talking to you that you are wrong at and even though clearly proven wrong you refused to budge. Such as the water to wine thread you had awhile back trying to prove it was non-alcoholic when the Greek word used and Jewish tradition shows otherwise. Nowhere in the bible does it make alcohol (fermented wine) completely wrong to drink.
As for cases of suicide with it being a mental disorder: Well, like I said, if they are unaware of right and wrong, then they are free from being condemned. If they are aware of what is right and wrong, then they are not going to get away with their sin.
As for Paul and fellowship: Well, I was referencing the forsaking of assembling with others. Paul was in prison by himself for a while. There was no fellowship always. Did God place him into a situation where he was forsaking the assembly of fellowship (Thereby breaking a Command in Scripture)? No. Such a command is not to be treated with such wooden literalism. For to do so would be to be like the Pharisees who got upset at Jesus who helped to do good on the Sabbath.
As for Paul and fellowship: Well, I was referencing the forsaking of assembling with others. Paul was in prison by himself for a while. There was no fellowship always. Did God place him into a situation where he was forsaking the assembly of fellowship (Thereby breaking a Command in Scripture)? No. Such a command is not to be treated with such wooden literalism. For to do so would be to be like the Pharisees who got upset at Jesus who helped to do good on the Sabbath.
K
You said our primary mission was to preach the gospel.....
I then countered with that preaching the gospel is to no avail if there is no love, mercy, and forgiveness behind what you are teaching. The bible states that undefiled religion is to go and visit and help others in need, so if you give the word but don't do the other then your religion is still defiled.
Jesus said the same thing to the Pharisees that they preached the law, but did not lift a finger to help those who were struggling. They just pointed fingers and condemned others by the words, and Jesus pretty much said they were not going to get eternal life for what they were doing........
I then countered with that preaching the gospel is to no avail if there is no love, mercy, and forgiveness behind what you are teaching. The bible states that undefiled religion is to go and visit and help others in need, so if you give the word but don't do the other then your religion is still defiled.
Jesus said the same thing to the Pharisees that they preached the law, but did not lift a finger to help those who were struggling. They just pointed fingers and condemned others by the words, and Jesus pretty much said they were not going to get eternal life for what they were doing........
There are 4 major views on Alcohol:
#1. Prohibitionist
Believes that the bible absolutely prohibits the consumption of alcoholic beverages; And it is a sin to drink it. This position is defeated by the fact that Timothy was told by Paul to have a little wine within his water for the infirmities of his stomach. This was not a medical prescription for every day stomach problems but it was for the purification of water (because some people do not have the tolerance or immune system to handle it). Also, Romans 14 tells us that all things are indeed pure. So drinking can be permissible as long as one does not drink to get drunk or to make their brother to stumble. So the Prohibitionist view that it is a sin to drink wine is not necessarily spelled out to us in Scripture; And cannot be supported as a solid viable position.
#2. Abstentionist
Believes that the bible does not absolutely prohibit the consumption of alcohol but for numerous reasons, Christians should abstain from using it. In this view, any amount of drinking that causes one to not be sober in any way directly contradicts those passages that tell us to be sober minded. Also, this view holds that drinking should be done in private and not publicly where your brother could see you and stumble. This view recommends that while it is lawful for you to drink, it is not always profitable so it is highly encouraged to abstain from it. Not out of some sense of legalism but out of love for God, yourself and your brother. Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful).
#3. Undecided
Those that are not sure if drinking alcohol is right or wrong.
#4. Moderationist
Believes that alcoholic drinks are a gift from God that should be, like all of God’s gifts, consumed moderately. However, the problem with this view is that many of the Moderationists do not warn against the dangers of alcohol. They only paint half the picture that alcohol is good and they get overly defensive in their consumption of alcohol when encouraged to walk the higher road out of love and not as a commandment or legal law within God's Word. Many or most Moderationists believe they can even drink in front of others publicly because Jesus turned water into alcoholic wine publicly. Thus, many of them believe that public drinking could not lead a brother to potentially to stumble (When clearly such a reality could happen).
However, that said, I also believe there is a small number of responsible drinking moderationists who drink in a way to stay sober minded and who believe the proper thing to do is to preach against drunkenness strongly. These Moderationists do not want to do anything to make their brother to stumble. They drink knowing that the beverage they have in their hands is potentially dangerous but yet they drink soberly to the glory of God in private. However, in good conscience, it is my duty as a Christian to remind even these Christians that it can bite like a serpent if they start to forget the dangers of this deadly drug. In fact, it is my encouragement that they walk the higher road and show that they are different from the rest of the world. Again, not out of legalism, but out of love.
My viewpoint:
Oh, and so that there is no more confusion, I want to let people know that I am an "Abstentionist" and I believe that it is the Biblical view based on the whole of Scripture.
#1. Prohibitionist
Believes that the bible absolutely prohibits the consumption of alcoholic beverages; And it is a sin to drink it. This position is defeated by the fact that Timothy was told by Paul to have a little wine within his water for the infirmities of his stomach. This was not a medical prescription for every day stomach problems but it was for the purification of water (because some people do not have the tolerance or immune system to handle it). Also, Romans 14 tells us that all things are indeed pure. So drinking can be permissible as long as one does not drink to get drunk or to make their brother to stumble. So the Prohibitionist view that it is a sin to drink wine is not necessarily spelled out to us in Scripture; And cannot be supported as a solid viable position.
#2. Abstentionist
Believes that the bible does not absolutely prohibit the consumption of alcohol but for numerous reasons, Christians should abstain from using it. In this view, any amount of drinking that causes one to not be sober in any way directly contradicts those passages that tell us to be sober minded. Also, this view holds that drinking should be done in private and not publicly where your brother could see you and stumble. This view recommends that while it is lawful for you to drink, it is not always profitable so it is highly encouraged to abstain from it. Not out of some sense of legalism but out of love for God, yourself and your brother. Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful).
#3. Undecided
Those that are not sure if drinking alcohol is right or wrong.
#4. Moderationist
Believes that alcoholic drinks are a gift from God that should be, like all of God’s gifts, consumed moderately. However, the problem with this view is that many of the Moderationists do not warn against the dangers of alcohol. They only paint half the picture that alcohol is good and they get overly defensive in their consumption of alcohol when encouraged to walk the higher road out of love and not as a commandment or legal law within God's Word. Many or most Moderationists believe they can even drink in front of others publicly because Jesus turned water into alcoholic wine publicly. Thus, many of them believe that public drinking could not lead a brother to potentially to stumble (When clearly such a reality could happen).
However, that said, I also believe there is a small number of responsible drinking moderationists who drink in a way to stay sober minded and who believe the proper thing to do is to preach against drunkenness strongly. These Moderationists do not want to do anything to make their brother to stumble. They drink knowing that the beverage they have in their hands is potentially dangerous but yet they drink soberly to the glory of God in private. However, in good conscience, it is my duty as a Christian to remind even these Christians that it can bite like a serpent if they start to forget the dangers of this deadly drug. In fact, it is my encouragement that they walk the higher road and show that they are different from the rest of the world. Again, not out of legalism, but out of love.
My viewpoint:
Oh, and so that there is no more confusion, I want to let people know that I am an "Abstentionist" and I believe that it is the Biblical view based on the whole of Scripture.