Joyce Meyer -- False Teacher

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popeye

Guest
Some people fear "man" so much. They fear being labeled what they label others, just to make themselves feel more self-righteous.
God bless you willie.

I read your pm. Thank you.

Side note;
Yesterday I got a message from my son. His MIL was to be operated on that AM. He said "will you pray and then text her"

Well,in that prayer time,I was assured success, by God, in the open heart surgery.
But I received a bonus. The Lord said "tell her to rest in my word"
So I told her via text.

I am so impressed HE is truly a personal God,so anxious to bless his pple with signs,wonders and miracles.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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God bless you willie.

I read your pm. Thank you.

Side note;
Yesterday I got a message from my son. His MIL was to be operated on that AM. He said "will you pray and then text her"

Well,in that prayer time,I was assured success, by God, in the open heart surgery.
But I received a bonus. The Lord said "tell her to rest in my word"
So I told her via text.

I am so impressed HE is truly a personal God,so anxious to bless his pple with signs,wonders and miracles.
When I first found the Vineyard, those kinds of things almost shocked me. Anymore, I see so much of it, it's almost like expecting sound to come forth when I pluck a string on a guitar. If it doesn't happen (and sometimes it doesn't), I'm a little surprised.
 
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popeye

Guest
Westborough Baptiist.

HHHMMMMMM,under the cessationist "condemn ,demonise,and mock (unscripturally)" pattern.....

Do we now hate and demonise the entire baptist denomination?

I would also need to know where you guys go to get your bibles edited
 
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popeye

Guest
When I first found the Vineyard, those kinds of things almost shocked me. Anymore, I see so much of it, it's almost like expecting sound to come forth when I pluck a string on a guitar. If it doesn't happen (and sometimes it doesn't), I'm a little surprised.
LOL!!!

I just realised something weird. If someone prays for a cessationist,and the same word is given,would they then be unable to "rest in my word"????
I mean,all they heve is suffering verses.(no healing/miraclles/authority)

They do not even believe in answered prayer!!!!!
 
Feb 7, 2015
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LOL!!!

I just realised something weird. If someone prays for a cessationist,and the same word is given,would they then be unable to "rest in my word"????
I mean,all they heve is suffering verses.(no healing/miraclles/authority)

They do not even believe in answered prayer!!!!!
I wouldn't claim this is "Biblical", but someone once told me that they thought we often "find" the God we choose to believe in. And, sometimes, ONLY that concept of God.
 
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popeye

Guest
When I first found the Vineyard, those kinds of things almost shocked me. Anymore, I see so much of it, it's almost like expecting sound to come forth when I pluck a string on a guitar. If it doesn't happen (and sometimes it doesn't), I'm a little surprised.
Yes,yes,yes

I was just talking to my wife about this, this morning.

So much of my day needs to be documented,as the supernatural helper( the HS) impresses me with so many things happening. I need to write them down.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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You are 100% wrong.
Ok. What was Jesus great commission to the church.

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
Matt 28:18-20

The primary mission is to make disciples, baptizing them.

Yes we have authority. Authority to bind things, authority to forgive things. Following Peter's and Paul's examples to pray in Jesus's name for healing. Some would dispute the level of this authority, whether it was for the apostles only, or for the church in general. There is an obvious qualification issue, a young christian who neither understands sin or authority cannot go around doing such things, so there are levels of gifting as the Lord provides.

But to claim this is health and wealth, creative power through words spoken is a different league. There are no limits on this idea, it is a right by authority, which cannot be refuted, as taught by many, the believer is the one who limits their own ability.

This is a massive conceptual difference. The health/wealth is invented and not biblical, the other is based on scripture and experience. Unfortunately god status is a no compromise position, it is a different faith.

You believe God is talking to you and giving you words to speak to other people. I am happy for you that you believe this.
I doubt it is true, and many people can testify to hearing voices, but they equally are not God.

If God was speaking through you, you would understand the problem of being a god, and all this entails. But you are happy to not make any distinctions between heresy and error and where you stand. This is not the Lords way.

On top of this for proclaiming the core faith, I am duped. On this basis there is no hope in Jesus or faith, all is meaningless, unless I accept you specific view of gifts and theology. That is a very sad place to be, and I will pray for you.
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
A graduate of O'Fallon Technical High School in St. Louis, she married a part-time car salesman shortly after her senior year of high school. The marriage lasted five years. She maintains that her husband frequently cheated on her and persuaded her to steal payroll checks from her employer. They used the money to go on a vacation to California. She states that she returned the money years later.[SUP][1][/SUP] After her divorce, Meyer frequented local bars before meeting Dave Meyer, an engineering draftsman. They were married on January 7, 1967.
Meyer also reports that she was praying intensely while driving to work one morning in 1976 when she said she heard God call her name. She had been born-again at age nine, but her unhappiness drove her deeper into her faith. She says that she came home later that day from a beauty appointment "full of liquid love" and was "drunk with the Spirit of God" that night while at the local bowling alley.[SUP][1][/SUP]
...I didn't have any knowledge. I didn't go to church. And I had a lot of problems, and I needed somebody to kind of help me along. And I think sometimes even people who want to serve God, if they have got so many problems that they don't think right and they don't act right and they don't behave right, they almost need somebody to take them by the hand and help lead them through the early years...[SUP][2][/SUP]
Meyer was briefly a member of Our Savior's Lutheran Church in St. Louis, a congregation of the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] She began leading an early-morning Bible class at a local cafeteria and became active in Life Christian Center, a charismatic church in Fenton. Within a few years, Meyer was the church's associate pastor. The church became one of the leading charismatic churches in the area, largely because of her popularity as a Bible teacher.[SUP][1][/SUP] She also began airing a daily 15-minute radio broadcast on a St. Louis radio station.
In 1985, Meyer resigned as associate pastor and founded her own ministry, initially called "Life in the Word." She began airing her radio show on six other stations from Chicago to Kansas City.
In 1993, her husband Dave suggested that they start a television ministry.[SUP][1][/SUP] Initially airing on superstation WGN-TV in Chicago and Black Entertainment Television (BET), her program, now called Enjoying Everyday Life, is still on the air today.
In 2002, mainstream publisher Hachette Book Group paid Meyer over $10 million for the rights to her backlist catalog of independently released books. [SUP][4][/SUP]
In 2004 St. Louis Christian television station KNLC, operated by the Rev. Larry Rice of New Life Evangelistic Center, dropped Meyer's programming. According to Rice, a longstanding Meyer supporter, Meyer's "excessive lifestyle" and her teachings often going "beyond Scripture" were the impetus for canceling the program.[SUP][5][/SUP]
In 2005, Time magazine's "25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America" ranked Meyer as 17th.[SUP][6][/SUP]
[h=2]Ministry[/h] Meyer speaks humorously, sharing with her audience her own shortcomings and taking playful jabs at stereotypical church behavior. A particular crowd favorite is the "robot" routine, in which she goes into a stiff-armed imitation of a robot chanting "What about me? What about me?"[SUP][7][/SUP]
According to Joyce Meyer Ministries, Meyer earned her doctoral degree from Life Christian University, an unaccredited institution in Tampa, Florida.[SUP][8][/SUP] Meyer has been given an Honorary Doctorate of Divinity by Oral Roberts University, an accredited institution in Tulsa, Oklahoma.[SUP][8][/SUP]
[h=2]Salary and finances[/h]



Joyce Meyer used to travel in this Canadair Challenger 600S; seen here in Sydney, Australia, when she was a 'special guest' at the Hillsong Conference in July 2005. It has since been replaced by a Gulfstream G-IV (serial number 1132)


Meyer, who owns several homes and travels in a private jet (currently a Gulfstream G-IV),[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP] has been criticized by some of her peers for living an excessive lifestyle. She responded that she doesn't have to defend her spending habits because "...there's no need for us to apologize for being blessed."[SUP][9][/SUP] Meyer commented, "You can be a businessman here in St. Louis, and people think the more you have, the more wonderful it is...but if you’re a preacher, then all of a sudden it becomes a problem."[SUP][9][/SUP]
In November 2003, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch published a four-part special report[SUP][9][/SUP] detailing Meyer's "$10 million corporate jet, her husband’s $107,000 silver-gray Mercedes sedan, her $2 million home and houses worth another $2 million for her four children," a $20 million headquarters, furnished with "$5.7 million worth of furniture, artwork, glassware, and the latest equipment and machinery," including a "$30,000 malachite round table, a $23,000 marble-topped antique commode, a $14,000 custom office bookcase, a $7,000 Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain, a $6,300 eagle sculpture on a pedestal, another eagle made of silver bought for $5,000, and numerous paintings purchased for $1,000 to $4,000 each," among many other expensive items – all paid for by the ministry. The articles prompted Wall Watchers[SUP][11][/SUP] (a Christian nonprofit watchdog group) to call on the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to investigate Meyer and her family.
Following the adverse publicity about her lifestyle and Ministry Watch's request for an IRS probe, Meyer announced in 2004 plans to take a salary reduction from the $900,000 per year she had been receiving from Joyce Meyer Ministries (in addition to the $450,000 her husband received)[SUP][12][/SUP] and instead personally keep more of the royalties from her outside book sales which Meyer had previously donated back to Joyce Meyer Ministries. She now retains royalties on books sold outside the ministry through retail outlets such as Walmart, Amazon.com, and bookstores, while continuing to donate to her ministry royalties from books sold through her conferences, catalogues, website, and television program.[SUP][13][/SUP] "The net effect of all of this," notes Ministry Watch,[SUP][11][/SUP] "was most likely a sizable increase in the personal compensation of Joyce Meyer and reduced revenues for JMM." In an article in the St. Louis Business Journal, Meyer's public relations director, Mark Sutherland, confirmed that her new income would be "way above" her previous levels.[SUP][14][/SUP] Joyce Meyer Ministries says it has made a commitment to maintain transparency in financial dealings,[SUP][15][/SUP] publish their annual reports,[SUP][15][/SUP] have a Board majority who are not Meyer relatives[SUP][16][/SUP] and submit to a voluntary annual audit.[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][17][/SUP] On December 18, 2008, this ministry received a "C" grade (71–80 score) for financial transparency from Ministry Watch.[SUP][18][/SUP]
Joyce Meyer Ministries was one of six investigated by the United States Senate inquiry into the tax-exempt status of religious organizations[SUP][19][/SUP][SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP] by Senator Chuck Grassley. The inquiry sought to determine if Meyer made any personal profit from financial donations, asking for a detailed accounting for such things as cosmetic surgery and foreign bank accounts and citing such expenses as the $23,000 commode mentioned earlier. Grassley also requested that Meyer's ministry make the information available by December 6, 2007. In her November 29 response to Grassley, Meyer notes that the commode is a chest of drawers. Meyer writes that it was part of a large lot of items totaling $262,000 that were needed to furnish the ministry's 150,000-square-foot (14,000 m[SUP]2[/SUP]) headquarters purchased in 2001. She said the commode's price tag was an "errant value" assigned by the selling agent and apologized for "not paying close attention to specific 'assigned values' placed on the pieces."[SUP][20][/SUP] Joyce Meyer Ministries responded with a newsletter to its e-mail list subscribers on November 9, 2007. The organization referred to its annual financial reports, asserting that, in 2006, the ministry spent 82 percent of its total expenses "for outreach and program services toward reaching people with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as attested by independent accounting firm Stanfield & O'Dell, LLP." The message also quoted an October 10, 2007, letter from the Internal Revenue Service which stated, "We determined that you [Joyce Meyer Ministries] continue to qualify as an organization exempt from federal income tax under IRC section 501(c)(3)." The same information was also posted to the ministry website. Joyce Meyer Ministries was one of two ministries to comply with the Senate's requests for financial records. It also made commitments to future financial transparency. Neither party were found to have done any wrongdoing.[SUP][22][/SUP]
[h=3]ECFA accreditation[/h] In 2009, Joyce Meyer Ministries received accreditation from the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA). In an announcement on March 12, 2009, the ECFA said that Joyce Meyer Ministries and Oral Roberts University had met their requirements of "'responsible stewardship', which involves ministries' financial accountability, transparency, board governance and fund-raising practices."[SUP][23][/SUP]

Sound Biblical??? Lol!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Yes,yes,yes

I was just talking to my wife about this, this morning.

So much of my day needs to be documented,as the supernatural helper( the HS) impresses me with so many things happening. I need to write them down.
I had a friend who was always talking about words of knowledge and understanding he received. The Lord would tell him who was phoning him up, or that he had to go somewhere because someone was praying, or in fact almost anything that came into his mind.

Now he told me things that were simply wrong, ignorant and arrogant. He had got so confused with his normal daily thoughts and ideas they had become God. This is not the experience of christians in general or particular. It tends to be the experience of crazy people, literally. The problem is simple, you loose the ability to be an individual making decisions based on who you are, and merely a vessel pushed around, believing you are doing something amazing, will actually treading water, or worse pushing self revelation as Gods revelation.

So I have become very cynical that any of this is really true or real, but mere self delusion.

If you can tell me more, and tell me why this massive specific guidance is really spiritually significant, I am all ears.
Nowhere in the teaching of the apostles etc is anything like this described.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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LOL!!!

They do not even believe in answered prayer!!!!!
Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
Phil 4:6

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites....go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father.....do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
Matt 6:5-7

There is a tendency here to actually make extreme each others position. All christians believe in answered prayer, whether positive or negatively or otherwise.

I am trying to refine down a definition of our differences
1. I am not a god
2. I have the right to become a child of God, and as a child the right to request the Father does things for us
3. Words have no power in themselves, they are not creative like Gods words, or limit anything in the future
4. God is himself, neither positive or negative, which have no meaning or context.
5. God is not limited or bound by anything, but he reflects his own nature in everything He does

Now we believe
1. Jesus is God
2. Salvation is in Jesus alone
3. Sin is only forgiven through faith in the cross and Jesus, or the foreshadow of this sacrifice
4. We are transformed through sanctification
5. The Holy Spirit in dwells all believers
6. The bible is our highest authority and understanding of the Lord
7. God performs miracles through his people, whether through prayer or just of his own volition

The list maybe longer, but in summary I think this is it.
 
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prodigal

Guest
Amen,I also believe that whatever we ask for,believe that you will receive it and you will have it.(as the word declares)

Thanks for reminding us that answered prayer is in fact getting what we prayed for.
cool does this method work for winning the lottery too or are there restrictions
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Dear reader,

I am not a god, I am not eternal, I am not transformed into a perfect being who knows everything and never fails.
Saying by becoming a christian I become these things, which I just need to claim by speaking out loud its reality is just insane, wishfull thinking, an afront to the Lord on high.

By putting these things into action you are putting yourself under the authority of the enemy.

Everything is given by Gods active will in the current situation. We do not have a blank cheque, or is His will obvious, you need to seek it out.

The fact this becomes a point of anger, disgust to you, indicates the kingdom you have walked into.
Jesus himself bent His will to the Father. We are to acknowledge the Lords ways are higher and different to our own, which we need to humbly learn and be prepared to walk in.

As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:9





The problem with labels used on people is one label does not cover every thing a person IS or believes. But regardless, the practice of labeling people continues because it's easier to label than have a reasonable conversation. It would seem we as mature believers should be shunning the practice of labeling other believers. Shall we?

The reason I try to have thoughts and use words that are of a positive confession is because it is biblical. The Bible says in Phil. 4:8 Finally brethren, whatsoever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.

The Bible says there is merit in thinking and saying good things and not evil things. He will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee... This is certainly not creating our own reality, it is doing what God's Word says so our minds will be transformed by renewing it with His Word. And the promises are that He will do this. I believe the Bible.

The power of life and death is in the tongue. We are not supposed to be cursing and blessing in the same breath., let alone that those 2 things should come out of the same mouth.

Walking by faith and not by sight takes a certain discipline to not look at the things that are seen but the things that are not so clearly seen. Heb. 11:1 Faith is trusting that what we feel and see are not always true but that what God's Word says is always true even if we don't see or feel it right away. And as Christians we now have a responsibility to be about the business of walking by faith and not by sight.

My experience with Joyce Meyers preaching has been just that., do not believe what the devil says about you but find out what God says about you. You are in the Beloved and you are cherished not condemned. If there is wrong thinking, repent of it and change your mind of it and believe instead what God's Word says about your life and circumstances. Do you feel alone? you are not alone, He has promised to be with you and will never forsake you. We are to focus on those truths of His love for us and not the enemies lies and feelings.

Put weight on God's Word and not our circumstances or feelings. That has been the message I've heard Joyce preach.

Believe what God says about you not what the devil or others say about you. Claim the promises already paid for by Jesus for you. And make it your life's goal to know His Word and learn who He is and who we are in Him. An intimate relationship with Jesus is available for all of His children. And as we walk in this newness of life we will serve Him from a true heart.

The Bible says there is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. Our sins are forgiven as far as the east is from the west... gone. paid for. Don't allow the enemy of your souls to put condemnation back on you when Jesus already got rid of it.

God is always positive, Jesus is our Good Shepherd who leads us, He does not herd us from behind like geese but leads us by going before us His sheep. He is always good and always righteous. We are supposed to be beholding Jesus and be reflecting Him in our lives. This can't be done by looking at the world and not Jesus. That is also what I've heard Joyce preach about.

Good is not evil and evil is not good. Repentance is changing our ways to His ways. And it does not always mean crying and sackcloth and ashes. It can be a simple renewal of our mind to believe Him instead of us.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
You're a very wise person, Lynn.
Hey Willie-T Like you I believe what the Bible says BUT I'm really flattered you would say I'm wise!!! Well, the Bible does say He takes the foolish things of this world - I'd go with that!!! Either way I appreciate your encourage words on these forums. I'm glad you, me and some others here realize that by believing the promises of God we are not saying we are mini gods or expecting that God should give us 747s to go to work in (my SUV He gave me is more appropriate) Or that I'm home here speaking things into being - "supper!!! Be cooked!!! poooofffff!!! waalaaa cooked!!" (not)

I'm glad you and others have experienced God's healing hand in your lives and that because you are so thankful, you want to share it with your brothers and sisters. That you know there is power in God's Word as we live by it and give it out to those around us like the Bible exhorts us too. It has the power to transform lives and bring things into being that were not before... changing people from sinners to saints, hating to loving., from sick to well, from sad to joyful., from needing to having needs met by His hand. I'm still not sure why this is being fought against and why we are being labeled here. I came to a point in life where either I believed His Word or died. I took the promises for myself and He keeps affirming these steps of faith believing what the Bible says. Because all the promises of God are yes and amen. Faith appropriates these things that are freely given to us. The Bible says without faith it is impossible to please Him...

We are His workmanship created In Christ Jesus unto good works... Eph. 2
I also believe that biblical hope is not a human "I hope so" but a belief in His promise and it becomes a "I know so" We can have a confident expectation of good happening because we are not liek the people of the world. We are the children of the living God. We have a Savior watching over us. There are more angels given charge over us than there are demons against us. And greater is He that is in us that he that is in the world (1 John 4:4)

We have every reason EVERY REASON to have a confident expectation of good. We cannot let the devil or the world steal that hope. It is ours.
 
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realize that by believing the promises of God we are not saying we are mini gods
Ladylynn - the unfortunate reality, is some actually do believe this. It appears you do not. I agree that you can believe the promises of God, but as pointed out by many, some of these promises are bounded by, the Lords will, what is actually possible, what is good for the requester and the situation into which it is spoken.

So a promise to ask for anything, is because of the closeness of the believer to the Lord, only that which is appropriate will be asked for, so go ahead.

Because of deception, excess, abuse, lies, greed, it is not without reason many good christians listen and look sceptically.

The fact that you do not for instance understand Creflo Dollar does preach openly little gods theology, health and wealth are to be expected, in fact if you do not have either you have failed.

Or ministries which rely on give us all your tithe because that will bless the Lord and you will get back multiples more in return. This is just sowing to the world. Or Benny Hinn saying give £1,000 in this 2 minute slot and you will become a millionaire. This is simple theft and greed.

So only a christian who is naive would say of these teachers, they know the Lord and I should accept what they say and mold my life around their theology. It is the yeast of sin, the bloated corpse of corruption. Yes there are true things here, things that chime with value and sympathy, but that does not make it healthy or whole, or even of the Lord.

As you fail to address the core issue, you fail in everything, because I believe all the promises of God and the Word, I just do not need all the heresy.
 
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What I find fascinating is that so many people seem to closely and carefully follow the teachings of these men they spew hatred and venom about. Did Jesus tell us to study them and stay so aware of everything about them? Not that I recall. I've been around longer than most of you, and all I can ever recall is just turning off the TV after a few minutes of their nonsense... and I often hear nothing more about them until someone on a site like this brings us the three hundred and thirty seven points they seem to have spent years and years studying, learning and memorizing about these guys.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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What I find fascinating is that so many people seem to closely and carefully follow the teachings of these men they spew hatred and venom about. Did Jesus tell us to study them and stay so aware of everything about them? Not that I recall. I've been around longer than most of you, and all I can ever recall is just turning off the TV after a few minutes of their nonsense... and I often hear nothing more about them until someone on a site like this brings us the three hundred and thirty seven points they seem to have spent years and years studying, learning and memorizing about these guys.
Willie. You have never got involved in theology or apologetics to come out with such an extreme criticism. Theology when broken down determines your evential ethics, what you literally kill people for, lock them up, who you call enemies and who you call friends and why.

Personally, I find these people a real challenge. I want to believe what they are doing is good, a blessing, of the Lord etc. but my heart tells me something else is at play. Now I live my life pulling strings, a seeing what is at the end of them. It is how you find out what is true.

If believers do not care what the spiritual foundations actually are, fine, they are not into theology or apologetics, but theology defines your world view and ethical foundations, so over time, defines what you believe. So to be taken seriously answers need to be found and given.

Are we eternal, gods with creative power to speak or not? This is not some minor issue, it is central to what the Kingdom of Heaven actually is and how it works. If this is a heresy, and you want to hold on to personal spiritual experiences you need to create a model that makes sense of this or your whole faith is just washed away.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Westborough Baptiist.

HHHMMMMMM,under the cessationist "condemn ,demonise,and mock (unscripturally)" pattern.....

Do we now hate and demonise the entire baptist denomination?

I would also need to know where you guys go to get your bibles edited
Westboro Baptist is an independent fundamentalist cult. It's member are excommunicated and shunned if they speak out about the teachings of the church, inclulding the founder's son!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Phelps

I would go so far as to say, that modern Baptist conventions, like the Southern Baptists, Cooperative Fellowship of Baptists, North American Baptists and the over 50 other conventions in the US and Canada do not preach or practice the kinds of lies that Westboro Baptist does. In fact, the President of the SBC recently noted how often their churches a picketed by Westboro.

Most Baptists, from the three conventions I have been in believe in prayer, healing and the Bible. What we are united against is believing that we can name it and claim it, with matters of both the spiritual and healing and financial wealth.

The Bible is clear that "The prayers of a righteous person availeth much!" We believe this! But it is not on-demand but prayer is the result of God answering, not because of what we have said/believed/confessed etc. God is the power, not us.

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."James 5:16

The basic tenet of the Word Faith movement is that our words, create things. I would say it is God that creates things. God works the miracles, and not just because we tell him too. He answers prayer according to his good will. God is sovereign, not human beings.

And that is why I strongly oppose the Word Faith movement. It puts man on the throne, instead of the Living and Holy, Righteous and Mighty YHVH - Jehovah God!



 
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Dear reader, let me make a simple point. Hearing from God is not simple, or straightforward. We are not pure, we have no way to simply say this is right or that is wrong.

All Gods interventions make news, people exaggerate, distort, and play up such events. One word spoken becomes the most important, distorting the rest of revelation, one healing means all illness must be healed, one gift of love means all gifts of love must come in this way.

So you must listen, study, balance and come to a conclusion. If a whole leadership are soaked in optimism, a conquering attitude and yet cannot discern sin, spiritual failure or heretical teaching, whatever their foundations, it has gone wrong.

Jesus walked among the crowds, many were sick, some were hypocritical sinners lost in blindness, some false teachers, messiahs, yet people got healed, through the power of God. It only gives glory to God, not to the theology or power of the preachers or leaders. God works no matter what man does, He is sovereign.

The problem is hearing the Word of the Lord and ministering it.

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
John 3:8

Look around you, there is not healing health for all or wealth for all, but their is love given freely to be applied to the heart through Jesus for all, yet so very few take it. Which is more important? Jesus or healing or wealth?

You can get health and wealth without the Lord, but it has no eternal significance, it is a trap.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Ladylynn - the unfortunate reality, is some actually do believe this. It appears you do not. I agree that you can believe the promises of God, but as pointed out by many, some of these promises are bounded by, the Lords will, what is actually possible, what is good for the requester and the situation into which it is spoken.

So a promise to ask for anything, is because of the closeness of the believer to the Lord, only that which is appropriate will be asked for, so go ahead.

Because of deception, excess, abuse, lies, greed, it is not without reason many good christians listen and look sceptically.

The fact that you do not for instance understand Creflo Dollar does preach openly little gods theology, health and wealth are to be expected, in fact if you do not have either you have failed.

Or ministries which rely on give us all your tithe because that will bless the Lord and you will get back multiples more in return. This is just sowing to the world. Or Benny Hinn saying give £1,000 in this 2 minute slot and you will become a millionaire. This is simple theft and greed.

So only a christian who is naive would say of these teachers, they know the Lord and I should accept what they say and mold my life around their theology. It is the yeast of sin, the bloated corpse of corruption. Yes there are true things here, things that chime with value and sympathy, but that does not make it healthy or whole, or even of the Lord.

As you fail to address the core issue, you fail in everything, because I believe all the promises of God and the Word, I just do not need all the heresy.
PeterJens, the real unfortunate reality is that you believe you know 'who' they all are and have made it your personal mission to shut them down. Myself included. Only this 'one' time have you actually said to me about believing I'm a mini god "it appears you do not"

You say in your 4th paragraph that I do not understand Creflo Dollar does preach openly little god's theology, health and wealth are to be expected, and if you don't have them you have failed. Again, I have listened to him and have never heard him say what you say he says. The same with Joyce M. I have heard tons of accusations about what these preaches "mean" when they say thus and so. But you also said the same thing about me too before you gave me a little lee-way by saying it appeared I don't believe the way you first thought I did.

The ministries I support do not ask for tithes, they always encourage the listeners to tithe to their local churches. I do not support all tv preachers but I do support some that have ministered to me at home and who are Biblical in my opinion. Sowing and reaping is a biblical principle even if it has been used by some in a wrong way. But that does not mean the biblical principal is to be discarded by anyone who mentions it or that those who do mention it are out to steal everyone's money., It's in the bible.

Again., I don't listen to all tv preachers and what Benny Hinn says I'm not familiar with but I am familiar with Joyce M. and Creflo D. So I have to wonder how much false info is being spread about many of the tv preachers that are mentioned on here since you have been incredibly wrong about Joyce M. imo. I do not judge her use of her money. I don't pretend to know her heart based on her spending. That is not my job. If God wants to bless this woman and she buys odd ball things (I would not buy in a million years) what is that to me? It's not the ministry God gave me.

To say I'm naive is again not based on anything but that I disagree with you. You don't know me personally nor do you know my heart. I would never tell you or anyone to "accept what they say and mold your life around their theology" Who says that??? I certainly would not tell anyone such a thing.,nor have I. It's so outlandish I've never heard anyone say that., it's just so exaggerating.

"the yeast of sin, the bloated corpse of corruption" (?) You admit there are true things here, things that chime with value and sympathy..... but then you go on again "But that does not make it healthy or whole, or even of the Lord." ???

Not sure how I failed to address the core issue, nor how that means failure in everything? Yet you say you believe all the promises of God and the Word, but you just don't need all the heresy. The posts I write out I've tried to be careful to use bible verses that apply.
Certainly would not post heresy.

I believe God wants us to walk by faith and not by sight... that money is to be used and flow freely through our hands otherwise it gets stagnant and polluted of no use to anyone. God blesses the flowing. I've seen it and it's worth practicing. The love of money is the root of all evil, not the money. If people don't like Joyce M. why not just not support her ministry. It is very easy to misjudge people when you label them.
 
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PeterJens, the real unfortunate reality is that you believe you know 'who' they all are and have made it your personal mission to shut them down.
Ok. Let us talk about facts. You can find film clips of Joyce Meyer and Creflo Dollar saying exactly core Latter Rain theology. On this very issue Joyce Meyer for instance has actually removed ideas about Jesus suffering in Hell tormented by demons, from her books, between 1999 and 2005.

Creflo Dollar - it was easy to find clips of him teaching we are a god. On his web site it was even simple to find him declaring "command theology" or "confession theology", words have creative power.

Now listening to their general sermons etc. does not mean they address these issues or display what their current take is on them. For me the point is not who teaches this theology, but who believes it.

This is not my mission to do anything other than share what I have found. You call me a liar. Well that is simply untrue. It does not take much research to find the truth, but maybe that is not what you want to hear.

Truth matters, especially when you claim to be a teacher.
If you are interested here is a open investigation into the WOF movement and its issues

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowyJrEEJco

Now I have been trained through experience dealing with many different religious groups. It trains you words matter.
Labels also matter, and whether you are for or against certain ideas.

I am 100% against command theology and little God ideas. Now if you are happy with this theology, fine, but I am not.

Now this divide is becoming more important, especially in the developing world, where it causes real world issues, to the extent people are being banned from entering countries, churches are being thrown into confusion and peoples faith derailed.

But for you it is just a matter to labels. You are wrong, but that is not why I am saying what I am saying.

You obviously want to correct me, to I got to laugh, because you cannot correct truth.