I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Scripture.

[Viligant_Warrior]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

By believing such you demonstrate your own lack of understanding of scripture.

I wouldn't classify that sentence as very productive of inducing peaceful discussion, would you?

Adam Clarke explains it in more depth than I have words for.
Read his commentary. It is accurate on this subject.
Adam Clarke's Bible Commentary - Hebrews 6

Clarke, I believe, fails to consider the proper exegesis of the Scriptures. He was an Arminian, so that isn't surprising that he sees the passage as literal when the language shows that it is not. He is the only one who comments in this fashion, by the way, out of literally dozens of commentary authors.

No. We are to conform to the image of the Son (Romans 8:29). Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; (1 Peter 4:1). He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1 John 2:6)

That's all well and fine, but it doesn't answer to the issue that prompted my initial responses, when you said "Jesus said 'I didn't come to being peace, but a sword,' " which replied to my admonishment to you that you were not contributing to the the overall attitude we are trying to achieve on the forum. You used the phrase to justify continuing to browbeat others, which I believe you do more than you may realize.

I believe we are the eagles or the fowl that will eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of captains (Which is mentioned in Revelation and in the Old Testament). Granted, now that does not mean I believe we will be cannibals mind you, but I do believe Christ will destroy all nations that come up against Him with the sword that proceeds from out of his mouth. How the saint gains victory after the enemies of God are incapacited by the Lord is a mystery at this time to me. But I do know a lot about the timing of the events of Revelation and the Olivet discouse, though (if you are interested).

This also is off point, as it addresses the eschatology without addressing the issue between us that prompted my post.

First, nowhere did I ever say that God blessed Jacob because he lied. You are putting those words into my mouth (when I did not say such a thing). Lying according to the 10 Commandments is wrong.

Your post implied blessing, as I read it. If I was wrong, please forgive me.

Second, I am familar with the story of Jacob and Esau and I am more than aware that his father was blind. What I meant by the word "appearance" is that Jacob took on the appearance (not visibly but in a form of identity) that he was Esau. The word appearance is defined as: "the act or fact of appearing, as to the eye or mind or before the public:"

So Jacob appeared to be Esau to his father Isaac so as to convince him mentally by tricking him with the other senses.

I think this is an argument that goes around the barn to answer a question that wasn't really asked.

Third, the parallel between Jacob taking on Esau's identity so as to obtain the firstborn blessing from his father Isaac is a parallel of how we as believers are to take on the the identity of the Son so as to obtain the firstborn blessing from God the Father. It is only if we conform to the image of the Son whereby God the Father will passover us. God is not condoning the sin of "lying" in this "type of Christ", but he is merely showing that Jacob was a "Type of Christ" loosely in the fact that Jesus who knew no sin was made to be sin for us.

I truly fail to understand how you can legitimately state there is any parallel between Jacob's lie and our putting on the image of Christ. The thought is anathema to Christian teaching.

Why does Christ have to impute His righteousness to us first? Because the slate needs to be wiped clean of sin and we need to be born again and renewed both in our hearts and minds. It is the starting point of a new relationship and beginning with God. But if one sins again, then they will end up just like Adam and Eve did when they ate of the tree (Which caused sin and death to come into the world). Believers have confess and forsake sin and they have to let Christ do the "good work" in their lives. This is not our work, but Christ working in us. It is His righteousness.

[/QUOTE]Ephesians 4:17-27 is a most accurate quote to reflect biblical teaching that we have a choice now in living in death, or life, a choice that when we were "yet sinners" we did not have available to us. No where does God say that the "old man" has been regenerated. He says we are "a new creation," a creation that abhors sin and will not walk in it. But death still lives in us, in the flesh, and we can -- as Paul repeatedly hits upon on Galatians, can walk in the flesh, or in the Spirit. It is the new creation who is able to resist temptation. The old dead man simply acts like death acts, the way the spiritually dead around us still act without choice. The flesh is condemned. The new creation is alive in Christ.

 

[Jason0047]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

I answered the questions to the best of my ability with Scripture. I am not going to endlessly debate you on this (if you are not open to hearing it). If you do not get what I am saying to you with Scripture (and you honestly want to see where I am coming from), please call upon the Lord to give you understanding and I guarantee he will help you to see it). I say this because if I try to show you by way of debate, you are just going to set out to prove your point and ignore mine. So my encouragment is to talk to God about it and see if there is any truth to it (Especially in regards to the story of Jacob and Esau). For Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

 

[Jason0047]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

Fails to consider anything said in my post.

You didn't exactly clarify what you said in your post and how that relates to Scripture and the point I brought up here in the thread. You just seemed to disagree with me and how I put forth Scripture as if your view was right (But you didn't really clarify how I was wrong in putting forth Scripture and how that specifically contradicts the Bible). For did not Jesus and others tell people to repent? Did they not tell people to "not sin"? Did they not all stress holiness and use the Word of God to do so? Were the people upset by Stephen's words or were they comforted by them? Was it the words of Stephen or the Word of God speaking thru Stephen that made them upset? Do you think in this case, that the Word was not a sword?

And just whom is it that wields that sword? Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Before you said the Word was not a weapon. Which is it?

The branch bears the fruit but the Vine produces the fruit. The preachers send forth not their word but the word of God. God gives the increase and produces the harvest. We are never taught to hit people over the head with Gods word. Only testify of Christ through our lives and the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak." (Ephesians 6:19-20).[/FONT]

"And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word," (Acts 4:29).

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power" (1 Corinthians 2:4).

 

[Jason0047]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

Thank you for taking the time to answer this helps Blond get to know a little more about you as a person.... Did you start going to church then after you read that tract? Or just continued to read Bible on your own?

First, please do not take offense, but I think you should treat yourself with more respect by not calling yourself a "Blonde" as if you are unintelligent. God gave us brains to think (despite hair color) and we can be as wise as serpents if we choose to have the mind of Christ (By following His Word). For the Marvel comics character known as the Incredible Hulk acts unintelligent in the fact that he refers to himself in the third person, by saying, "Hulk smash!" and or when he says "Hulk is strongest one there is!" I don't want you to think of you as the Hulk, and I don't want others here to think of you that way, either. Believers are beautiful in God's sight (when they humble themselves before Him but in love and truth).

Second, while I will not go deep in describing my entire personal life; As I said before, my teaching was not from a church but it was from studying the Word of God on my own time by the Spirit leading me (Having me compare Scripture with Scripture to verify the truth). I have went to church off and on, and I have been baptized after being born again; But I see most churches as teaching something that is false and wrong. I prefer seeking out fellowship with a few believers who are like minded.

 

[Jason0047]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

. I prefer seeking out fellowship with a few believers who are like minded.

For narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few be there that find it.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

I still didnt see where you apologized to InSpiritInTruth

If you read my post, you would see that I apologized to all who I offended. I confessed that what I posted was in anger and was sin.
Did I include names? No, I assumed that all included all.
If you will notice, I believe have responded to ISIT post since so as not to offend him again.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

I answered the questions to the best of my ability with Scripture. I am not going to endlessly debate you on this (if you are not open to hearing it).

It seems debate only goes one way with your, Jason, as you will not consider the Scriptures others provide for you. For instance, I notice you did not respond to my question to you about your "lost and regained" salvation.

If you do not get what I am saying to you with Scripture (and you honestly want to see where I am coming from), please call upon the Lord to give you understanding and I guarantee he will help you to see it).

Will He give you understanding if I ask the same of Him for you?

I say this because if I try to show you by way of debate, you are just going to set out to prove your point and ignore mine.

Jason, had you ever actually used Scripture in a way that convinced me or anyone else of what you believe, then you would have a valid reluctanct. However, your interpretation leaves much to be desired in light of actual biblical truth.

So my encouragment is to talk to God about it and see if there is any truth to it (Especially in regards to the story of Jacob and Esau). For Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Interesting that you don't quote the rest of Jesus' sentence, which is in the next verse:

John 5, NASB
40 "and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life."​

When you are backed into a corner, Jason, with pointed questions you do not wish to answer, you disappear or pretend you do not see them. Believe me when I say I truly pray for you, that you allow truth to be revealed to you, because while I think you are sincere in what you believe, friend, you are in error. You are either cradled in Jesus' hand but without the security of knowing you cannot be removed, or you are working so very hard to build a ladder of works so you can climb into His hand. I'm not sure which. I pray it is the former, as the latter is impossible.

Don't worry. No need to hide from me anymore. I won't attempt to share truth again.

 

[JesusLives]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

First, please do not take offense, but I think you should treat yourself with more respect by not calling yourself a "Blonde" as if you are unintelligent. God gave us brains to think (despite hair color) and we can be as wise as serpents if we choose to have the mind of Christ (By following His Word). For the Marvel comics character known as the Incredible Hulk acts unintelligent in the fact that he refers to himself in the third person, by saying, "Hulk smash!" and or when he says "Hulk is strongest one there is!" I don't want you to think of you as the Hulk, and I don't want others here to think of you that way, either. Believers are beautiful in God's sight (when they humble themselves before Him but in love and truth).

Second, while I will not go deep in describing my entire personal life; As I said before, my teaching was not from a church but it was from studying the Word of God on my own time by the Spirit leading me (Having me compare Scripture with Scripture to verify the truth). I have went to church off and on, and I have been baptized after being born again; But I see most churches as teaching something that is false and wrong. I prefer seeking out fellowship with a few believers who are like minded.

Thank you for your answer again....as for the Blond thing believe me I have great self respect and know with out a doubt that I am smart.....I only do it because it amuses me and I frankly have fun with it and I believe most people that I chat with know both of those things....Blonds are no more unintelligent than the next hair color....but I am blonde (the correct spelling for a girl-(other peeps don't get used to me spelling it that way....) and have fun with the humor of it...

Someone once said to me going to church is like coals in a grill.....the fire burns hot and stays for a while with many coals but a coal all by itself can easily go out......Even the Bible says in Hebrews 10:24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

It is hard out there by yourself so I hope you have found others to associate with for encouragement.

 

[Jason0047]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

Thank you for your answer again....as for the Blond thing believe me I have great self respect and know with out a doubt that I am smart.....I only do it because it amuses me and I frankly have fun with it and I believe most people that I chat with know both of those things....Blonds are no more unintelligent than the next hair color....but I am blonde (the correct spelling for a girl-(other peeps don't get used to me spelling it that way....) and have fun with the humor of it...

While I may disagree with your use of such a word in regards to yourself, you have free will to do as you wish.

Someone once said to me going to church is like coals in a grill.....the fire burns hot and stays for a while with many coals but a coal all by itself can easily go out......Even the Bible says in Hebrews 10:24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

It is hard out there by yourself so I hope you have found others to associate with for encouragement.

While I do believe I have fellowship now in a unique way, I do want to deepen my level of fellowship more in God's timing. We all need to improve our walk more and more each day; But I yet I also realize God is the One who also brings the people into my life that I need, too. But if I was given a choice of being with just God and His Word over some man putting on a light and music show and giving a quick feel good sermon, I would choose to be with God every time in silence of my own home so as to worship of Him privately. For the works I prefer the most to do are those that are done in secret before my Father and not before other men. For my fire does not come from being around others, but it comes from God.

 

[Jason0047]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

Interesting that you don't quote the rest of Jesus' sentence, which is in the next verse:

John 5, NASB
40 "and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life."​

And you honestly think I left it out intentionally? I was merely quoting one verse to make a point that you are ignoring in regards to the story of Jacob and Esau. In any event, when you read verse 40 you also have to read the context so as to balance it (See verse 24 and verse 29). For verse 24 says in order to have everlasting life you also have to hear his Word (or words). Verse 29 says that there are those who have DONE GOOD whereby they will be at the resurrection of life and then there are those who have DONE EVIL whereby they will be at the resurrection of damnation.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation.

 

[Jason0047]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

While I may disagree with your use of such a word in regards to yourself, you have free will to do as you wish.



While I do believe I have fellowship now in a unique way, I do want to deepen my level of fellowship more in God's timing. We all need to improve our walk more and more each day; But I yet I also realize God is the One who also brings the people into my life that I need, too. But if I was given a choice of being with just God and His Word over some man putting on a light and music show and giving a quick feel good sermon, I would choose to be with God every time in silence of my own home so as to worship of Him privately. For the works I prefer the most to do are those that are done in secret before my Father and not before other men. For my fire does not come from being around others, but it comes from God.

Yes, it is true that God lives in the hearts of other people and iron sharpens iron, but if I was the only man on the planet I would be happy in the Lord for the love that He gives me. For the Lord is the One in whom I need. He is my source. For without my time with Him, I cannot function so as to be around others properly (Like God would want me to be).

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

And you honestly think I left it out intentionally? I was merely quoting one verse to make a point that you are ignoring in regards to the story of Jacob and Esau. In any event, when you read verse 40 you also have to read the context so as to balance it (See verse 24 and verse 29). For verse 24 says in order to have everlasting life you also have to hear his Word (or words). Verse 29 says that there are those who have DONE GOOD whereby they will be at the resurrection of life and then there are those who have DONE EVIL whereby they will be at the resurrection of damnation.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation.

I take this as invitation to continue to challenge you, so when are you going to stop pretending I'm "ignoring" something in the story of Jacob and Esau? You are simply wrong when you claim Jacob's deception of Isaac can in any way be compared to our command to take on the image of Christ?

Verse 29 says that there are those who have DONE GOOD whereby they will be at the resurrection of life and then there are those who have DONE EVIL whereby they will be at the resurrection of damnation.

And you're going to pretend that has anything to do with salvation? It does, to the extent that those who have "done good" are the saved, but those who have "done evil" are the unbelieving condemned. Or have you forgotten ...

John 6, NASB
47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."​

Believes. Not believes " ... and does good works ... " or believes " ... and follows the Law ... " or any other lost theology. You agree we are justified by Christ. Do you know how we are justified, and what that means for us?

Still haven't answered the "yes or no" question, either.

 

[Jason0047]

Re: I am ignoring those who just insult & I am only repling to those who offer Script

I take this as invitation to continue to challenge you, so when are you going to stop pretending I'm "ignoring" something in the story of Jacob and Esau? You are simply wrong when you claim Jacob's deception of Isaac can in any way be compared to our command to take on the image of Christ?

And you're going to pretend that has anything to do with salvation? It does, to the extent that those who have "done good" are the saved, but those who have "done evil" are the unbelieving condemned. Or have you forgotten ...

John 6, NASB
47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."​

Believes. Not believes " ... and does good works ... " or believes " ... and follows the Law ... " or any other lost theology. You agree we are justified by Christ. Do you know how we are justified, and what that means for us?

Still haven't answered the "yes or no" question, either.

No, it is believe and and following his words. It's not one or the other. You cannot focus a laser beam on that verse so as to overshadow the context. It doesn't work like that. Hebrews 5:9 says, Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him. As much as you would love to change that verse, it is in your Bible (Among many of them that say something similar).