In Church today....
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Well .....look who has something to say in the bible forum........thats right ......me......but this topic interests me........
I think the debate thing is good..........Jesus said we were brothers and sisters.....and sometimes I see thats how we act..
cause my sisters and I were always bickering.....when we go out to witness.....we will be ready....it keeps us sharp.......
I look at this as practice .....sometimes when we witness ......people arent so nice....they catch us
of guard.........thats what I think this site is good for.....If I want to be good at something .....I practice...
get in shape......and I gotta admit.....from reading the bible forums ....even though I dont respond.....I get a kick
out of some of the bantering....I learn....I get different views ....then I take it to God and ask Him what to keep and what
to ignore.....feelings will get you everytime.....if we can banter without being mean and trying to hurt someone .....
then I say great........but when we start lossing ....or if we are (thats right ...im going say it )....wrong.....then it seems
thats when the meanness and low blows come out......but I love you all....even you meanies......peace....jo
I think the debate thing is good..........Jesus said we were brothers and sisters.....and sometimes I see thats how we act..
cause my sisters and I were always bickering.....when we go out to witness.....we will be ready....it keeps us sharp.......
I look at this as practice .....sometimes when we witness ......people arent so nice....they catch us
of guard.........thats what I think this site is good for.....If I want to be good at something .....I practice...
get in shape......and I gotta admit.....from reading the bible forums ....even though I dont respond.....I get a kick
out of some of the bantering....I learn....I get different views ....then I take it to God and ask Him what to keep and what
to ignore.....feelings will get you everytime.....if we can banter without being mean and trying to hurt someone .....
then I say great........but when we start lossing ....or if we are (thats right ...im going say it )....wrong.....then it seems
thats when the meanness and low blows come out......but I love you all....even you meanies......peace....jo
T
Doctrine isn't a dirty word in and of itself. It's a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by the Church. For example: there are several beliefs that are required for someone to be able to call themselves a Christian. The problem arises when the colour of pews and other non-salvaic things divide the Body of Christ.
M
To the OP question.,
I'm really going to get a tongue lashing now so maybe I should
say this then run for the hills Lol.
BY THE WAY I SAY THIS TO MYSELF AS WELL, I AM AS GUILTY OF
THE FOLLOWING AS EVERYONE ELSE, POSSIBLY MORE SO BEING A WOMAN
WHO GETS PMT (perplexing muddled turmoil)
.
Why big letters? Because I need to remind myself of the above.
So here goes clears throat and opens mouth in fear and trembling-
Pride - my understanding is better than your understanding
Immaturity - how dare you say that to me, you are going to get it now (stamps feet)
Lack of love - I'm going to tear your post to pieces and be extremely unkind
Lack of discernment - instead of assuming that was a joke or that maybe I
have misunderstood as I cannot see your facial expressions, or maybe that
your grasp of the English language means there may be misunderstandings,
I'm going to assume instead that you were being deliberately evil in your intent.
Lack of patience - I can't be bothered to read your post properly but I just saw
that word in the middle. I'm gonna take it completely out of context and assume
you said something you didn't.
Lack of forgiveness - you upset me in your last post, I'm going to criticise everything
you post from now on
Own internal problems - I'm feeling angry, upset, ill, emotional. The next person
who posts had better duck!
Own unresolved conflict - everyone is so mean to me, including you.
Pride again - if I do say something wrong/hurtful and someone genuinely points
it out (in a right way), I'm not going to say sorry - never, ever, ever.
OH WOW I AM SO GUILTY OF A LOT OF THINGS
Incidentally it is great to search the scriptures, and dig out those nuggets of wisdom
discussing what they mean and to have everyone's opinions. I love reading the early
parts of threads in the BDF and often get my thinking cap on. But then the
above inevitably creeps in and I no longer want to read the threads, let alone post
in them - and I then become guilty of all of the above I suppose, but in a passive
way!
OK - let me put on my blind fold before you shoot me!
I'm really going to get a tongue lashing now so maybe I should
say this then run for the hills Lol.
BY THE WAY I SAY THIS TO MYSELF AS WELL, I AM AS GUILTY OF
THE FOLLOWING AS EVERYONE ELSE, POSSIBLY MORE SO BEING A WOMAN
WHO GETS PMT (perplexing muddled turmoil)
.Why big letters? Because I need to remind myself of the above.
So here goes clears throat and opens mouth in fear and trembling-
Pride - my understanding is better than your understanding
Immaturity - how dare you say that to me, you are going to get it now (stamps feet)
Lack of love - I'm going to tear your post to pieces and be extremely unkind
Lack of discernment - instead of assuming that was a joke or that maybe I
have misunderstood as I cannot see your facial expressions, or maybe that
your grasp of the English language means there may be misunderstandings,
I'm going to assume instead that you were being deliberately evil in your intent.
Lack of patience - I can't be bothered to read your post properly but I just saw
that word in the middle. I'm gonna take it completely out of context and assume
you said something you didn't.
Lack of forgiveness - you upset me in your last post, I'm going to criticise everything
you post from now on
Own internal problems - I'm feeling angry, upset, ill, emotional. The next person
who posts had better duck!
Own unresolved conflict - everyone is so mean to me, including you.
Pride again - if I do say something wrong/hurtful and someone genuinely points
it out (in a right way), I'm not going to say sorry - never, ever, ever.
OH WOW I AM SO GUILTY OF A LOT OF THINGS
Incidentally it is great to search the scriptures, and dig out those nuggets of wisdom
discussing what they mean and to have everyone's opinions. I love reading the early
parts of threads in the BDF and often get my thinking cap on. But then the
above inevitably creeps in and I no longer want to read the threads, let alone post
in them - and I then become guilty of all of the above I suppose, but in a passive
way!
OK - let me put on my blind fold before you shoot me!
E
the people in church are the exact very same people as the ones here on the forum
I go to church...you go to church etc
If you have ever been in ministry...counselled people, taught Sunday school, been on a worship team or led worship, taught a Bible class or home Bible study...WHATEVER...it soon becomes very clear that many, if not most, people who are actually believers, have NEVER done a systematic study of the Bible. They have NOT been good Bereans.
Many many folk get their word from the Pastor...who, most of the time unless it is an actual Bible study, does not systematically go through the Bible on a Sunday morning, but instead gives an encouragement or even admonishion and that is what people take home and chew on.
Without context, without further study and without the boundaries put on the Word by the Bible itself, you just never know what is going to come out of a person who does not take Bible study seriously.
Then, you end up with alphabet soup. Right here, right now and sitting beside you on Sunday morning...only everyone does not talk all at once in church. They listen...or not.
So like what is your problem with doctrine?
Every word that Jesus spoke was doctrine.
Now traditions and other religious stuff is the creation of men so that's a different matter altogether. Just like worship to one person is different to another because of religious differences.
I would say that music prepares the heart to worship and preaching Gods word teaches the heart Who and how we worship.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Every word that Jesus spoke was doctrine.
Now traditions and other religious stuff is the creation of men so that's a different matter altogether. Just like worship to one person is different to another because of religious differences.
I would say that music prepares the heart to worship and preaching Gods word teaches the heart Who and how we worship.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Two simple observations
1. Church is often the domination of the few over the many
2. Forums like this mean people can express what they really personally believe
The reality is this forum is a better reflection of real faith than church.
I go to church to worship, to share in the fellowship and agree a common approach. But mostly this agreement is by attendance and silence not partaking.
My house group of 8 people is a better reflection. And as 8 people, we have 8 takes on our faith, with different emphasis and understanding. So you then ask what is church? It is a body of encouragement and agreement, helping each other to walk and acting as a body with different ministries. Often when we share, each chimes in with their experience, though different very often reflects the same lessons. It helps because a lot of the lessons are conclusions, view points, which have nuances, which matter, and with the help of others becomes real.
Let me take one example, gold dust in meetings. It maybe fake, it maybe real, but many have gone so what, it means nothing and is a distraction and has no validity and could even be of the enemy. The lie that has been introduced is anything supernatural must be of God or we would know. But that is simply not true. We are given the basis of discerning that which is helpful and uplifting and that which is irrelevent. Gold dust says neither God is present or absent, that this is approval or a curse.
What is unhelpfull is dependency on the visible rather than the relationship within. Jesus is always about the relationship within and the reality of faith and its expression. A real sign of Gods moving is conviction of sin and a desire for holiness and purity, seeking truth and simplicity in relationships. The fact this has nothing to do with gold dust speaks the reality of such ideas and manifestations. But discernment never really showed itself in NAR etc so that again speaks volumes about the real spiritual war they are not fighting.
1. Church is often the domination of the few over the many
2. Forums like this mean people can express what they really personally believe
The reality is this forum is a better reflection of real faith than church.
I go to church to worship, to share in the fellowship and agree a common approach. But mostly this agreement is by attendance and silence not partaking.
My house group of 8 people is a better reflection. And as 8 people, we have 8 takes on our faith, with different emphasis and understanding. So you then ask what is church? It is a body of encouragement and agreement, helping each other to walk and acting as a body with different ministries. Often when we share, each chimes in with their experience, though different very often reflects the same lessons. It helps because a lot of the lessons are conclusions, view points, which have nuances, which matter, and with the help of others becomes real.
Let me take one example, gold dust in meetings. It maybe fake, it maybe real, but many have gone so what, it means nothing and is a distraction and has no validity and could even be of the enemy. The lie that has been introduced is anything supernatural must be of God or we would know. But that is simply not true. We are given the basis of discerning that which is helpful and uplifting and that which is irrelevent. Gold dust says neither God is present or absent, that this is approval or a curse.
What is unhelpfull is dependency on the visible rather than the relationship within. Jesus is always about the relationship within and the reality of faith and its expression. A real sign of Gods moving is conviction of sin and a desire for holiness and purity, seeking truth and simplicity in relationships. The fact this has nothing to do with gold dust speaks the reality of such ideas and manifestations. But discernment never really showed itself in NAR etc so that again speaks volumes about the real spiritual war they are not fighting.
G
And from my experience Roger, the underlined above, is seriously lacking in most churches.
The ultimate way to worship the Lord is to learn the mind of Christ(Doctrine.) Growing in His Grace and knowledge.
Most churches around here are occupied with people,coffee breaks,bake sales,music,you name it and are not occupied with the Lord Jesus Christ.
They are more about our social life and our social life with others has been twisted into Christian fellowship.
Christian fellowship are believers who are occupied with the mind of Christ(His Word/doctrine)
The ultimate way to worship the Lord is to learn the mind of Christ(Doctrine.) Growing in His Grace and knowledge.
Most churches around here are occupied with people,coffee breaks,bake sales,music,you name it and are not occupied with the Lord Jesus Christ.
They are more about our social life and our social life with others has been twisted into Christian fellowship.
Christian fellowship are believers who are occupied with the mind of Christ(His Word/doctrine)
The thing about seeing insights is they are seen within a context. It is sometimes difficult to give the context, because one knows in ones head the context but you do not speak it out because you assume it is there.
A good illustration of this is one of my daughters aged 6 had a teacher whose name was Rutter, but she said Wutter.
Now we would say Wutter and she would correct us and think she said Rutter but said Wutter.
It was funny because she got so annoyed and was so convinced she had said it right. The brain is strange like that.
So I apologize if maybe it does not come across right, but as with all things, practice makes perfect.
A good illustration of this is one of my daughters aged 6 had a teacher whose name was Rutter, but she said Wutter.
Now we would say Wutter and she would correct us and think she said Rutter but said Wutter.
It was funny because she got so annoyed and was so convinced she had said it right. The brain is strange like that.
So I apologize if maybe it does not come across right, but as with all things, practice makes perfect.
To the quoted in black in particular...the Holy Spirit would never lead God's people into this divisive individualistic "differing beliefs" as you speak of and then have people thinking they are yet "united" just because they sing the same songs. If there's no real unity as to belief and doctrine then it's missing the mark.