Grace: A License to Sin (FALSE!)
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Doesn't this prove to both of you that anyone can take any position, and "prove" it with verses.... and then turn right around and proclaim just the opposite stance, and STILL "prove" your view with about the same number of opposing verses?
This is a game Theologians have played for years.
This is a game Theologians have played for years.
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It's not a game. Souls are at stake here. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God. Also, Eternal Security not only cannot be shown in the Bible but it also cannot be illustrated by using a real world example, either. This is important to understand because Jesus had illustrated spiritual truth by using real world examples (i.e. parables).
1Jn 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And ifiany man sinsin
, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin
unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
so hers my question: why would it be needful to have an advocate if all our future sin were forgiven? why would John be saying to pray for a sin not unto death if all future sin were forgiven? why bother? no need to repent right, no need for an advocate, also it is clear that this letter was written AFTER our Savior ascended to His Father, so if all sin is forgiven us , ( and I do know that the past sin is) however to say the scripture teaches that our future sin is also forgiven is not found in scripture without adding to it or giving mans opinion of what it says.. if OSAS were true why would our Savior say these words?:
Mar 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall Endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
is every time someone gives their life and heart to our Savior is it the end for them, (in the context of the previous text) I say no, it is the beginning of a life of faith and obedience to the One who called us to walk in the fullness of life, the grace we walk in is awesome and frankly unfathomable, but we must properly apply the text of scripture top our lives, not listen to what men teach but pray and seek the truth, His Spirit will surely guide you to it... (Proverbs 3:5-6)
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And ifiany man sinsin
, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin
unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
so hers my question: why would it be needful to have an advocate if all our future sin were forgiven? why would John be saying to pray for a sin not unto death if all future sin were forgiven? why bother? no need to repent right, no need for an advocate, also it is clear that this letter was written AFTER our Savior ascended to His Father, so if all sin is forgiven us , ( and I do know that the past sin is) however to say the scripture teaches that our future sin is also forgiven is not found in scripture without adding to it or giving mans opinion of what it says.. if OSAS were true why would our Savior say these words?:
Mar 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall Endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
is every time someone gives their life and heart to our Savior is it the end for them, (in the context of the previous text) I say no, it is the beginning of a life of faith and obedience to the One who called us to walk in the fullness of life, the grace we walk in is awesome and frankly unfathomable, but we must properly apply the text of scripture top our lives, not listen to what men teach but pray and seek the truth, His Spirit will surely guide you to it... (Proverbs 3:5-6)
K
I am always in the mode to learn more when it comes from God's word, but when somebody quotes something from somebody that has false teaching under his belt like Augustine we can already write them off.
I took and showed you clearly what he taught, and showed scriptures from the bible that refutes what he taught and you tell me I am not wanting to understand. Well I guess you are right if what you are speaking is from Augustine....
K
Here is the problem though and that is the doctrine of eternal security works if it applies to all believers......
What about those believers that the bible says wanders away from the faith do to deception from false teachers, giving back into their temptations, and those who fall away when tough times come up ???
I know what some say and that is that they weren't really believers to begin with taking away their right of the bible saying they did hear and accept the truth for awhile. It is just their way of excusing how a person who once believed could possibly fall away, because the doctrine of eternal security says that falling away is impossible.
The bible no less then 10 times says it is possible for a believer to fall away from the faith, yet those scriptures constantly get rejected by them..............
K
The two of you go read post 14 as I showed in that post what Augustine taught, and how the bible refutes his teachings.
This has nothing to do with because I disagree with him, as the bible is the one that disagrees with his teachings as he says it is impossible to fall away from the faith and says apostasy is also impossible. The bible on both points shows it is possible for believers to fall away, and it clearly teaches on apostasy in the bible........
Please be careful with statements like that. By the same token, you are, in effect, calling all Christians who see Jesus' grace in different lights, liars.... and that is just not so.
There is a world of difference between being a liar, and understanding Jesus differently than your sister or brother might.
There is a world of difference between being a liar, and understanding Jesus differently than your sister or brother might.
K
Absolutely true that anybody who makes the gospel of Christ and makes it into a gospel of lewdness has not been saved.
The question though still remains; What about those who are deceived away from the gospel, fall away from the gospel do hardships, and wander away from the gospel to go back to a sinful lifestyle ???
The question though still remains; What about those who are deceived away from the gospel, fall away from the gospel do hardships, and wander away from the gospel to go back to a sinful lifestyle ???
E
Dear Jason
Please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you go about from thread to thread telling half truths and well it seems deliberate lies in order to sow discord?
I have seen you do this over and over and over and over...and well many more times as well
You either have a limited capacity for understanding, or, and I am actually leaning towards this myself, you have an extremely limited capacity to appreciate or even try to understand what another person writes
However, and here is the kicker, if that is so, then nothing any of us write or point out to you will have the slighest impact on you
Sadly, you will not understand, let alone care to understand, the irony in that, but I understand that you are driven to do what you do and really and truly think that everyone but yourself is wrong
The height of your self love is expressed in your wish that we are well and that God's love shines upon us
That wish means about as much to you as a cat wishes a bird well just before it teases it to death.
We are not fooled
Please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you go about from thread to thread telling half truths and well it seems deliberate lies in order to sow discord?
I have seen you do this over and over and over and over...and well many more times as well
You either have a limited capacity for understanding, or, and I am actually leaning towards this myself, you have an extremely limited capacity to appreciate or even try to understand what another person writes
However, and here is the kicker, if that is so, then nothing any of us write or point out to you will have the slighest impact on you
Sadly, you will not understand, let alone care to understand, the irony in that, but I understand that you are driven to do what you do and really and truly think that everyone but yourself is wrong
The height of your self love is expressed in your wish that we are well and that God's love shines upon us
That wish means about as much to you as a cat wishes a bird well just before it teases it to death.
We are not fooled