Grace: A License to Sin (FALSE!)

[ember]

I mean, when I read statements that I do not have to forgive and yet not be forgiven, then it gives me the wrong impression that one can sin and still be saved (by hearing such a message). Then when you say here that this is not the case, then it sounds like you are contradicting yourself. One either thinks they can sin and still be saved or one does not think they can sin and still be saved. It's either one or the other. But there are many people here who have voted in one my threads that says that they can abide in unrepentant sin (like lying, lusting, and hating) and then die and still be saved.

They believe this because all future sin is forgiven them. This is a license to sin; And it is wrong.

This is absolutely false. People explained that they believe they can die without having expressed regret or asked for forgiveness for a sin should death come upon them before they had the chance to do so.

You deliberately misrepresent what people say and have said. You sound more and more like a snake oil salesman and you seem to think this forum is your audience

You do not appear to have the ability to understand either the feelings or expressions of others leading, once again, my leaning towards viewing your behavior indicating an extreme lack of empathy and an extreme aversion to identifying with the human race in general and the factual account of mankind's fall from grace and the impossible situation of being separated from God because of sin

You have no conception of the corruption of the human race as it applies to you personally and see yourself as having achieved a sinless perspective far removed from the common sinner who cries out to God to be delivered from this body of death as did Paul

Simply put, your behavior and expressions are not only anti-biblical, but your attitude towards us in general would appear to indicate that you see yourself separate and apart...somehow better, always right and disgusted with the rest of us

I don't think you are as religious as you think you are.

Frankly and quite honestly, I do not believe any one of us is ever going to make the slightest dent regarding your unbiblical beliefs and it is not due to confusion on your part or poor exegetical skills on ours.

 

[3Scoreand10]

And, has been stated (other than Jason) those people really don't exist.... at least not to the knowledge of anyone here, it seems.

I have never met one but I have a friend that encountered one several years ago in a church he pastored.
There may be more than we think as crazy as the religious world has become.

 

[ember]

For one, I will top that list with no problem. Give me time to do so, though. Second, I will also in time try and refute each and every single one of those verses by explaining the context of those verses, too. I say this because.... OSAS is pure evil and it needs to be exposed for what it is (Which is a license for a person to sin).

No

You say what you say because you have a desire to be right because you cannot conceive of yourself in any other way

This desire to be right on your part would play the same way whether you were a scuba diving teacher, a geologist, a camel driver or an Indy 500 competitor

You just need to be right no matter the topic. Again, this actually has nothing to do with the Bible. Seeing this, helps one to understand why you cannot ignore anything anyone says but must answer everything with a drive that really does not even make sense considering this forum is not a life or death contest of some kind.

Resting assured of our salvation is pure evil?

No one, and I am a pretty thorough reader and have good comprehension skills for the most part, has ever said in these forums that they believe OSAS means a person can continue to sin like a Roman god and go to heaven

That, is your invention or perhaps the invention of your church...however, I would tend to think that others in your church do not quite share the same drive to poke a stake through the collective hearts of those who point out to you your just really bad theology.

Really bad.

Trust me. It's really bad.

 

[Willie-T]

I have never met one but I have a friend that encountered one several years ago in a church he pastored.
There may be more than we think as crazy as the religious world has become.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there aren't a fair sprinkling of religious nuts of just about any variety in this world. But, I have yet to meet anyone who says that being a Christian is nothing more than just checking a box on a sheet of paper somewhere. Now, I personally do not believe wearing a suit has anything to do with being a Christian, but some do.... and I guess they think I am just choosing to sin any old way I feel like by not considering a three-piece suit a sacred garment.

And I honestly think that may be what you are reacting to..... people not conforming to your (or other people's) ideas of things that are "supposed" to be done, or "proper attitudes" demonstrated in order to be considered a "Christian."

 

[Sirk]

Doesn't this prove to both of you that anyone can take any position, and "prove" it with verses.... and then turn right around and proclaim just the opposite stance, and STILL "prove" your view with about the same number of opposing verses?

This is a game Theologians have played for years.

Ya. That was kinda the point I was trying to make.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there aren't a fair sprinkling of religious nuts of just about any variety in this world. But, I have yet to meet anyone who says that being a Christian is nothing more than just checking a box on a sheet of paper somewhere. Now, I personally do not believe wearing a suit has anything to do with being a Christian, but some do.... and I guess they think I am just choosing to sin any old way I feel like by not considering a three-piece suit a sacred garment.

And I honestly think that may be what you are reacting to..... people not conforming to your (or other people's) ideas of things that are "supposed" to be done, or "proper attitudes" demonstrated in order to be considered a "Christian."

I don't even own a suit.

I believe in eternal sucurity. Salvation is a one time event.

Once a person has been saved by the GRACE of God, the Holy Spirit will lead that person to live as Christ lived.
But I still live in a sinful flesh. Sometimes the flesh wins and I sin. Because I am saved, a child of God, my Heavenly Father rebuks me and leads me to ask for forgiveness which He grants.
I love Him because He first loved me and it breaks my heart when I displease Him---SIN.
It is not about pleasing men nor following their rules or standards, it's about pleasing my Savior.
If anyone believes that God's saving grace is a license to sin and lives that way with no rebuke nor chastisement from God is not His son. He is not saved regardless of what he says.

I know that some "so called churches" have man made rules for dress, hair, giving, etc but not the local church I am a member of.
We come to study and worship, not put on a show.

 

[Willie-T]

I don't even own a suit.

I believe in eternal sucurity. Salvation is a one time event.

Once a person has been saved by the GRACE of God, the Holy Spirit will lead that person to live as Christ lived.
But I still live in a sinful flesh. Sometimes the flesh wins and I sin. Because I am saved, a child of God, my Heavenly Father rebuks me and leads me to ask for forgiveness which He grants.
I love Him because He first loved me and it breaks my heart when I displease Him---SIN.
It is not about pleasing men nor following their rules or standards, it's about pleasing my Savior.
If anyone believes that God's saving grace is a license to sin and lives that way with no rebuke nor chastisement from God is not His son. He is not saved regardless of what he says.

I know that some "so called churches" have man made rules for dress, hair, giving, etc but not the local church I am a member of.
We come to study and worship, not put on a show.

I'm sorry to bring this up again, but you have gone back to talking about this "person" you admit you have never run across in your entire life, as though we trip over them at every street corner.

 

[Jason0047]

No, it's clearly a game to you. Your post # 40 shows that in black & white.

You are seeing what you want to see so as to falsey accuse me. I said what I did because OSAS does not exist in the Bible. There are tons of verses that refute such an idea. That is why I said what I did. Also, as I said before, if OSAS is true, then surely you would be able to illustrate it with a real world example.

 

[Jason0047]

This is absolutely false. People explained that they believe they can die without having expressed regret or asked for forgiveness for a sin should death come upon them before they had the chance to do so.

You deliberately misrepresent what people say and have said. You sound more and more like a snake oil salesman and you seem to think this forum is your audience

You do not appear to have the ability to understand either the feelings or expressions of others leading, once again, my leaning towards viewing your behavior indicating an extreme lack of empathy and an extreme aversion to identifying with the human race in general and the factual account of mankind's fall from grace and the impossible situation of being separated from God because of sin

You have no conception of the corruption of the human race as it applies to you personally and see yourself as having achieved a sinless perspective far removed from the common sinner who cries out to God to be delivered from this body of death as did Paul

Simply put, your behavior and expressions are not only anti-biblical, but your attitude towards us in general would appear to indicate that you see yourself separate and apart...somehow better, always right and disgusted with the rest of us

I don't think you are as religious as you think you are.

Frankly and quite honestly, I do not believe any one of us is ever going to make the slightest dent regarding your unbiblical beliefs and it is not due to confusion on your part or poor exegetical skills on ours.

There are 4 major problems with the type of vote people had cast in the fact that they said they will be saved if they die in unrepentant sin.

#1. It ignores 1 John 1:9 that says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
(Please keep in mind that 1 John 1:8-9 is in context to 1 John 2:4).

#2. God is the giver and taker of life; So if a person does not have a chance to repent, that is because God judged them as being wicked because they really were not sorry for the type of sins they committed before they died (Because they did not confess of it). For Ananais and Sapphira were not saved because great fear fell upon the church and all who heard about their deaths. Believers do not experience fear when a believer dies and goes to be with the Lord.

#3. God is not a respecter of persons. If God saved His people because they died in sin without repenting of it, then he would also have to save all unbelievers, too. For to believe on Jesus Christ is a Commandment and sin is merely transgression of the law (or commandment).

#4. It allows someone to think that they can sin and still be saved some other time (Which is a license to sin).

 

[Jason0047]

No

You say what you say because you have a desire to be right because you cannot conceive of yourself in any other way

This desire to be right on your part would play the same way whether you were a scuba diving teacher, a geologist, a camel driver or an Indy 500 competitor

You just need to be right no matter the topic. Again, this actually has nothing to do with the Bible. Seeing this, helps one to understand why you cannot ignore anything anyone says but must answer everything with a drive that really does not even make sense considering this forum is not a life or death contest of some kind.

Resting assured of our salvation is pure evil?

No one, and I am a pretty thorough reader and have good comprehension skills for the most part, has ever said in these forums that they believe OSAS means a person can continue to sin like a Roman god and go to heaven

That, is your invention or perhaps the invention of your church...however, I would tend to think that others in your church do not quite share the same drive to poke a stake through the collective hearts of those who point out to you your just really bad theology.

Really bad.

Trust me. It's really bad.

No, I have provided more verses than he could put forth (Which shows that the Bible is against OSAS) and ..... and..... I was willing to explain the context of the list he had provided. In fact, I am still planning on refuting eacn and every single one of those verses that are wrongfully used for OSAS.

 

[Jason0047]

You refute all day long, but it's not truth. You can sow discord all around, you are the evil one. Clearly not of God.

Thank you for insulting me and falsely accusing me. I will rejoice in God my Savior.

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 john 4:7-8

Saying that a doctrine is evil is not wrong. Nowhere did I call a specific person here evil. Wait, but didn't you just do that?

 

[Sirk]

No, I have provided more verses than he could put forth (Which shows that the Bible is against OSAS) and ..... and..... I was willing to explain the context of the list he had provided. In fact, I am still planning on refuting eacn and every single one of those verses that are wrongfully used for OSAS.

I have way more verses than you do. You don't have as many verses as I do. Mine are better too. Plus...you dress funny....like a Hutterite. Are your clothes homemade?

 

[TaylorTG]

I have way more verses than you do. You don't have as many verses as I do. Mine are better too. Plus...you dress funny....like a Hutterite. Are your clothes homemade?

Why would wearing homemade clothes be bad, or old-fashioned?

 

[RickyZ]

I have way more verses than you do. You don't have as many verses as I do. Mine are better too.

Smirk you make me laugh again .

Has anyone ever actually won a verse war?

 

[ladylynn]

How many ways can this subject be discussed?
Or i guess how many threads does it take to prove the same point?

Probably for as long as Christians are reading their Bibles and learning to grow, there will be new threads and new discussions because there are more people getting saved and learning to read and study their Bibles. So praise God for these old yet NEW topics!!

 

[ladylynn]

Hey BenFTW., HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This was hilarious to see when I first saw your post and thread. Keep up the good posts Bro!! And I love your sense of humor!!!! Blessings!

 

[ladylynn]

Grace the Power of the Gospel
The Gospel is the most basic, foundational message of the New Testament, yet it's the most misunderstood. Paul made it simple, using the words "Gospel" and "grace" interchangeably (Acts 20:24 and Gal. 1:6) and saying they both are the means by which we are saved (Rom. 1:16 and Eph. 2:8).

The words "Gospel" and "grace" are interchangeable in Acts 20:24 But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, in order that I may finish my course, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the GOSPEL of the GRACE of God.
Galatians 1:6 "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the GRACE of Christ for a different GOSPEL" (those who taught any other way threatened the true gospel.)
Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9. not as a result of works, that no one should boast."

As a whole, today's religious system doesn't preach this. Many preachers mix grace with the Law, saying, "Oh, no, we don't want to give people a license to sin." Last I checked, people were sinning without a license! You can't balance grace with the Law. If you do, it won't be the Gospel at all.

You can't balance grace with the Law, if you do, it won't be the GOSPEL at all.


It takes a supernatural revelation from the Holy Spirit to be able to understand this. Once you do, it'll transform the way you view God, the way you relate to God, and the way youreceive from God. Romans was written to explain the Gospel so that anybody could understand it.

If you're going to have a Christian walk that cannot be shaken, it starts with having the proper foundation. You don't need to look any further than the truths Paul laid down in Romans. When you really get hold of these, you'll be set free from sin, not free to sin.You'll wind up living holier accidentally than you ever have on purpose. You'll serve God out of love stricter and stronger than you ever would have out of legalism.



When we know we walk IN forgiveness we learn about grace and it's deep meaning for the child of God who is convicted by the Holy Spirit of their righteousness in Christ. Free NOT to sin.
Like being in love, you don't feel it a burden you have to be with your loved one, you GET to be with your loved one. you want to be with them, you yearn to be with them.
Jesus said you will know the truth and the truth will make you free (John 8:32). It's not truth that sets you free; it's the truth you know that sets you free. But before you can know it, you've got to hear it. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Rom. 10:17).

It's not the truth that sets you free;, it's the truth you KNOW that sets you free. The issue is - many don't KNOW the truth and are not walking in freedom or liberty.

 

[Jason0047]

I have way more verses than you do. You don't have as many verses as I do. Mine are better too. Plus...you dress funny....like a Hutterite. Are your clothes homemade?

Why were the Bereans more noble? Because they searched the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not. The fact that the Bible speaks more about warning the believer than mentioning in having security in Him should give a person pause. But people see what they want to see in God's Word. Also, if OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) was true, then how come nobody has yet to make a real world example out of it? Did not Jesus illustrate spiritual truth with real world examples (i.e. parables)? This is another thing that should give a person something to think about (if such a doctrine is true or not).

 

[Jason0047]

Smirk you make me laugh again .

Has anyone ever actually won a verse war?

All I know is that I am willing to explain any set of verses and go the extra mile in doing so
(While others really do not do that).

In addition, whenever I ask people to explain verses like 1 John 2:4, Hebrews 5:9, 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24 word for word they clam up and cannot really truly explain them. They just dismiss them in saying that it means something else and do not point to any kind of context to prove their case. Therein lies the difference between us.

 

[Jason0047]

Grace the Power of the Gospel
The Gospel is the most basic, foundational message of the New Testament, yet it's the most misunderstood. Paul made it simple, using the words "Gospel" and "grace" interchangeably (Acts 20:24 and Gal. 1:6) and saying they both are the means by which we are saved (Rom. 1:16 and Eph. 2:8).

The words "Gospel" and "grace" are interchangeable in Acts 20:24 But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, in order that I may finish my course, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the GOSPEL of the GRACE of God.
Galatians 1:6 "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the GRACE of Christ for a different GOSPEL" (those who taught any other way threatened the true gospel.)
Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9. not as a result of works, that no one should boast."

As a whole, today's religious system doesn't preach this. Many preachers mix grace with the Law, saying, "Oh, no, we don't want to give people a license to sin." Last I checked, people were sinning without a license! You can't balance grace with the Law. If you do, it won't be the Gospel at all.

You can't balance grace with the Law, if you do, it won't be the GOSPEL at all.


It takes a supernatural revelation from the Holy Spirit to be able to understand this. Once you do, it'll transform the way you view God, the way you relate to God, and the way youreceive from God. Romans was written to explain the Gospel so that anybody could understand it.

If you're going to have a Christian walk that cannot be shaken, it starts with having the proper foundation. You don't need to look any further than the truths Paul laid down in Romans. When you really get hold of these, you'll be set free from sin, not free to sin.You'll wind up living holier accidentally than you ever have on purpose. You'll serve God out of love stricter and stronger than you ever would have out of legalism.



When we know we walk IN forgiveness we learn about grace and it's deep meaning for the child of God who is convicted by the Holy Spirit of their righteousness in Christ. Free NOT to sin.
Like being in love, you don't feel it a burden you have to be with your loved one, you GET to be with your loved one. you want to be with them, you yearn to be with them.
Jesus said you will know the truth and the truth will make you free (John 8:32). It's not truth that sets you free; it's the truth you know that sets you free. But before you can know it, you've got to hear it. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (Rom. 10:17).

It's not the truth that sets you free;, it's the truth you KNOW that sets you free. The issue is - many don't KNOW the truth and are not walking in freedom or liberty.

Not sure if it was answered or not, but as I said before, how can one say that grace is not a license to sin and yet also say that one can not forgive and yet still be forgiven? This is a contradiction to me (That needs to be explained using the Bible).