Preachers Brutally Beaten At Gay Pride Festival

[crossnote]

It's all in how you approach people. If you approach people in an aggressive manner then they are more likely to be aggressive with you. I do not condone the violence but I do feel like it was provoked. I can almost guarantee that if you approach them with some degree of diplomacy you will get the same in return.

Tell Paul that, I guess he had the wrong approach....

2 Corinthians 11:23-26 (KJV)
23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

 

[Dude653]

Oh yeah. Like that time I was minding my own business and was assaulted by homosexuals.....oh wait... That hasn't happened

 

[Mitspa]

Oh yeah. Like that time I was minding my own business and was assaulted by homosexuals.....oh wait... That hasn't happened

Well some of us has to be about the Fathers business and that often brings persecution.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

 

[Dude653]

Well some of us has to be about the Fathers business and that often brings persecution.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

These two preachers they to learn the difference between evangelism and harassment

 

[crossnote]

Some Christians need to quit falsely accusing when they have no proof.

 

[Mitspa]

These two preachers they to learn the difference between evangelism and harassment

oH YEA...That sign that said Jesus saves sinners...is horrible and they should be beaten and maybe even killed...

But what those thugs did was fine... call evil what is good and call good what is evil.

 

[p_rehbein]

Oh yeah. Like that time I was minding my own business and was assaulted by homosexuals.....oh wait... That hasn't happened

Maybe you should spend more time in the Father's business?

 

[Dude653]

Maybe you should spend more time in the Father's business?

The fathers business is harrasing people?

 

[Mitspa]

The fathers business is harrasing people?

Nope...its to preach the truth to the whole world of course that's going to bother some sinners and some religious hypocrites ...right?

 

[Dude653]

Nope...its to preach the truth to the whole world of course that's going to bother some sinners and some religious hypocrites ...right?

Man please.... I'm a hypocrite because I do not advicate being confrontational and intrusive, which is a behavior Jesus Christ never showed......have a seat Sir... Jesus Christ instructions are quite clear. If people won't hear you then you walk away and wipe the dust from your feet

 

[Mitspa]

Man please.... I'm a hypocrite because I do not advicate being confrontational and intrusive, which is a behavior Jesus Christ never showed......have a seat Sir... Jesus Christ instructions are quite clear. If people won't hear you then you walk away and wipe the dust from your feet

Have you read the bible? Jesus was never confrontational ? And you clearly have no ability to judge what God calls His ministers to do or how the conviction of the Holy Spirit works upon the conscience of a sinner.

Mt 10:32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

 

[Dude653]

Have you read the bible? Jesus was never confrontational ? And you clearly have no ability to judge what God calls His ministers to do or how the conviction of the Holy Spirit works upon the conscience of a sinner.

Mt 10:32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

None of these scriptures are relevant to this discussion.

 

[kedge]

Wow, I really do see both sides of the "Christian" coin, forgive my ignorance but I really do see a seemingly self-contradictory effect in a lot of scripture?, or perhaps it's just the interpretation of holy scripture?. I really don't think I could be a Christian right now? not given up nor given in just not sure really? people just say let the holy spirit guide you but isn't that what Christendom as a whole says?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

My friend..have a good 4th and I didn't see any shouting on that video except by those who where attacking those guys who appear to have been holding a sign that said "Jesus saves sinners" ...these guys where not only doing nothing wrong but was completely right in my judgment and as citizens that deserve protected speech, should be upheld by all of us.

Yes, as I've said many times before, we all have the right to speak as stupidly as we wish. Carrying a 3'X4' sign with 10" letters saying "Repent or else ... " in the midst of a gay pride march is the same thing as shouting, and it doesn't teach anyone anything. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -- rightly or wrongly, it makes no difference, Inspiring such a negative emotion isn't the point of the Gospel. It isn't the way Jesus preached the Gospel.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

I'm gonna tell all of you, there is coming a day when a gay couple, perhaps with an adopted child, is going to walk into your church. They are going to register the child at the nursery, they're going to walk into your Sunday school class, they are going to go to the worship service.

What are you going to do?

If your choice is anything other than receiving them in love and being willing to withhold anger, verbal outbursts, and judgment, sharing with them the love of Christ and the truth of Christ through that love...

... you justify every bad opinion they have about Christians and prove yourselves unworthy of carrying His message to anyone.

You think these clowns in Seattle were "absolutely right"? They were dead wrong, and did nothing but bring shame to the cause of Christ. You don't win people into the Kingdom with anger, hate, and judgment. No one hears and experiences the truth of Christ until they have seen and known the love of Christ. Christ came first in love, He comes later in judgment. That's the order the Gospel must be presented as well.

I've got to say, this discussion has me seriously rethinking my continued participation on this forum. It truly troubles me heart to see this kind of "evangelism" defended as justifiable. It isn't. It is the antithesis of loving evangelism. It is worse than hate -- it is displaying a blatant lack of care for the lost, because if you care, you will love.

 

[crossnote]

I'm gonna tell all of you, there is coming a day when a gay couple, perhaps with an adopted child, is going to walk into your church. They are going to register the child at the nursery, they're going to walk into your Sunday school class, they are going to go to the worship service.

What are you going to do?

If your choice is anything other than receiving them in love and being willing to withhold anger, verbal outbursts, and judgment, sharing with them the love of Christ and the truth of Christ through that love...

... you justify every bad opinion they have about Christians and prove yourselves unworthy of carrying His message to anyone.

You think these clowns in Seattle were "absolutely right"? They were dead wrong, and did nothing but bring shame to the cause of Christ. You don't win people into the Kingdom with anger, hate, and judgment. No one hears and experiences the truth of Christ until they have seen and known the love of Christ. Christ came first in love, He comes later in judgment. That's the order the Gospel must be presented as well.

I've got to say, this discussion has me seriously rethinking my continued participation on this forum. It truly troubles me heart to see this kind of "evangelism" defended as justifiable. It isn't. It is the antithesis of loving evangelism. It is worse than hate -- it is displaying a blatant lack of care for the lost, because if you care, you will love.

If it was where I attend Church, I would rejoice because they will hear the Gospel, but I'm not sure how that ties in with two preachers going out and witnessing amongst them. Anger, hate?..we don't know that except for the stereotypes we're fed by the media of wild eyed rabid preachers foaming and spewing out hate. I didn't see that in the video.

Do you think it would have been any different if they had only gone with a handful of tracks and also a desire to reach these people for Christ?
Was their crime that they targeted a specific group? If they had gone to a race track with the same signs to target gamblers for Christ would they have been attacked in the same way? I think not.

 

[Dude653]

Vigilant warrior has a good point. You don't win people to Christ by using anger and judgement, you do so by showing them love and kindness. I do not believe these preachers cared about anyone's souls. They only wanted to be seen. This is exactly the type of behavior for which Jesus Christ rebuked the Pharisees. All throughout history we have seen people pervert Christianity and use it for their own hateful agendas. This type of behavior is one reason why people don't like Christians..
KKK who spread hatred and racial intolerance in the name of Christianity.
Hitler slaughtered jews by the millions in the name of Christianity
And unfortunately this is why you will find many African Americans who do not like Christianity because they feel it was forced upon their ancestors by their slave owners. This is just the type of thing that is hurtful to the cause of Christianity.

 

[crossnote]

Vigilant warrior has a good point. You don't win people to Christ by using anger and judgement, you do so by showing them love and kindness. I do not believe these preachers cared about anyone's souls. They only wanted to be seen. This is exactly the type of behavior for which Jesus Christ rebuked the Pharisees. All throughout history we have seen people pervert Christianity and use it for their own hateful agendas. This type of behavior is one reason why people don't like Christians..
KKK who spread hatred and racial intolerance in the name of Christianity.
Hitler slaughtered jews by the millions in the name of Christianity
And unfortunately this is why you will find many African Americans who do not like Christianity because they feel it was forced upon their ancestors by their slave owners. This is just the type of thing that is hurtful to the cause of Christianity.

Insufficient evidence of their motives, it's called pre-judging or being prejudice on your part.

Because groups do things in the name of Christ does not mean they represent Christ, There were many good christian slave owners who treated their slaves so well the slaves did not want to leave at the end of the war.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Anger, hate?..we don't know that except for the stereotypes we're fed by the media of wild eyed rabid preachers foaming and spewing out hate.

Do you seriously think "preaching the gospel" is walking into the midst of a gay pride parade -- or a pro-choice rally, or a NOW convention -- carrying a sign that immediately angers and provokes them? Put the shoe on the other foot. What would this one do to you if an LGBT activist carried it to the front door of your church?

Its the same thing the "preachers" did at the gay pride parade. It would be deliberately provocative, destroying dialogue before it ever began. It doesn't matter who trods on whose "hot buttons," it isn't the way to approach the situation, and particularly not the way the Gospel is preached.

I didn't see that in the video.

Then, with respect Cross, you've blinded yourself to it. It's definitely there.

Do you think it would have been any different if they had only gone with a handful of tracks and also a desire to reach these people for Christ?

We'll never know, will we? Instead of that, they challenged them with a sign bound to trigger negative emotions at a gay pride parade.

Was their crime that they targeted a specific group?

I never said it was a "crime." I did say they were wrong.

If they had gone to a race track with the same signs to target gamblers for Christ would they have been attacked in the same way? I think not.

They may not have been attacked in the same way, but they would have been no less wrong in attempting to reach the lost. The fact they were attacked should tell us that such an approach isn't going to work.

Did Jesus not come to where you were when you were lost? Or did He make you come to Him?

 

[crossnote]

Do you seriously think "preaching the gospel" is walking into the midst of a gay pride parade -- or a pro-choice rally, or a NOW convention -- carrying a sign that immediately angers and provokes them? Put the shoe on the other foot. What would this one do to you if an LGBT activist carried it to the front door of your church?

Its the same thing the "preachers" did at the gay pride parade. It would be deliberately provocative, destroying dialogue before it ever began. It doesn't matter who trods on whose "hot buttons," it isn't the way to approach the situation, and particularly not the way the Gospel is preached.

Then, with respect Cross, you've blinded yourself to it. It's definitely there.

We'll never know, will we? Instead of that, they challenged them with a sign bound to trigger negative emotions at a gay pride parade.

I never said it was a "crime." I did say they were wrong.

They may not have been attacked in the same way, but they would have been no less wrong in attempting to reach the lost. The fact they were attacked should tell us that such an approach isn't going to work.

Did Jesus not come to where you were when you were lost? Or did He make you come to Him?

What I am seeing is that you are espousing one-to-one evangelism but leave no room for speaking to a group.How do you think these two should have approached that group?

BTW, I forgot to say in my last post, "don't leave" you're much appreciated here and your posts, especially covering news items, are invaluable. We just don't see quite eye to eye on this.