Bakers refuse gay couple for wedding cake - is this a Christian response?

[phil112]

Ok fair enough, so your Lord encourages Christians the followers of the Lord to break the law of the land correct?

Why are you on this board if you don't know, and don't want to know, about the bible. Tell me, how many apostles went to jail? Paul was in prison many times. You think he compromised his religion to get out of jail? You think he capitulated to "the law" to avoid jail?
You are less than a juvenile in the word.

 

[kedge]

Why are you on this board if you don't know, and don't want to know, about the bible. Tell me, how many apostles went to jail? Paul was in prison many times. You think he compromised his religion to get out of jail? You think he capitulated to "the law" to avoid jail?

No I don't but I don't know how one reconciles protest with certain scriptures, such as,

Romans 13: 1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work

1 Peter 2:13-25
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. ...


Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ

You are less than a juvenile in the word.

Correct I am, but that's not suprising really when one thinks about the division in Christendom and what really is truth?, very confusing because of so many different interpretations of the Holy Bible, but anyone is simple minded to think that they can discriminate and not have negative repercussions.

 

[kedge]

ActuallyI made a mistake about fines, it was $135,000 as “damages, not fines or civil penalties”

Under Oregon law, businesses cannot discriminate or refuse service based on sexual orientation, just as they cannot turn customers away because of race, sex, disability, age or religion.
The Oregon Equality Act of 2007 includes an exemption for religious organizations and schools, but does not allow private business owners to deny service and unlawfully discriminate against potential customers.

The BOLI Final Order awards $60,000 in damages to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for emotional suffering stemming directly from unlawful discrimination. The amounts are damages related to the harm suffered by the Complainants, not fines or civil penalties which are punitive in nature.

The Final Order notes that the non-economic damages are consistent with the agency’s previous orders, such as an earlier ruling against a Bend dentist In the Matter of Andrew W. Engle. In that case, BOLI awarded a Christian employee $325,000 in damages for physical, mental and emotion suffering due to religious discrimination and harassment.
​

 

[Mitspa]

ActuallyI made a mistake about fines, it was $135,000 as “damages, not fines or civil penalties”

Under Oregon law, businesses cannot discriminate or refuse service based on sexual orientation, just as they cannot turn customers away because of race, sex, disability, age or religion.
The Oregon Equality Act of 2007 includes an exemption for religious organizations and schools, but does not allow private business owners to deny service and unlawfully discriminate against potential customers.

The BOLI Final Order awards $60,000 in damages to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for emotional suffering stemming directly from unlawful discrimination. The amounts are damages related to the harm suffered by the Complainants, not fines or civil penalties which are punitive in nature.

The Final Order notes that the non-economic damages are consistent with the agency’s previous orders, such as an earlier ruling against a Bend dentist In the Matter of Andrew W. Engle. In that case, BOLI awarded a Christian employee $325,000 in damages for physical, mental and emotion suffering due to religious discrimination and harassment.
​

thank God Oregon law is not national law and we have politicians now at work in other states to pass laws to uphold citizens rights to religious freedom The gay agenda folks has opened a can of worms they will soon regret.

 

[Mitspa]

No I don't but I don't know how one reconciles protest with certain scriptures, such as,

Romans 13: 1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work

1 Peter 2:13-25
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. ...


Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ



Correct I am, but that's not suprising really when one thinks about the division in Christendom and what really is truth?, very confusing because of so many different interpretations of the Holy Bible, but anyone is simple minded to think that they can discriminate and not have negative repercussions.

The principal of obedience to God above man is so established in scripture its not really a debate for true believers. And these other scriptures never contradict that truth. If you see a contradiction is because you want to submit to ungodliness not because the scriptures teach that.

 

[Mitspa]

I would also add that we are free born citizens and have every right given by our constitution to uphold the moral principals that we desire as citizens and for our society. We have the right and responsibility to defeat any law or group or judge that works to corrupt our society or to overthrow our constitution . We the people are the power in the USA

 

[ember]

Originally Posted by kedge
Ok fair enough, so your Lord encourages Christians the followers of the Lord to break the law of the land correct?

No, the so called law of the land is working to put the rights of the few over the rights of the many

They are trying to breaks the backs of Christians...has nothing to do with baking or not baking a cake...it has to do with the few that have an agenda and desire that all should follow their ways...this is inspired by the devil

 

[sassylady]

That was extreme! I didn't realize that was the final outcome. I hope that gay couple is satisfied!

I read the other day that this couple's children has received threats. The mom is doing cakes out of their home and the dad is a garbage man now, if I remember right.

There is another case in Colorado right now with a bakery where the owner refused to do a wedding cake. He has actually served gay people, including the couple in the case, and says he does not have a problem with it, just simply expressed the fact he cannot do a wedding cake for a union that God is against.

On a brighter note, the Oklahoma Supreme court wanted to take down a 10 commandments monument that just went up 3 years ago, and the governor of Oklahoma said yesterday the monument stays up. Praise God. The people higher up can certainly make better choices if they want.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

The Oregon Equality Act of 2007 includes an exemption for religious organizations and schools, but does not allow private business owners to deny service and unlawfully discriminate against potential customers.

Oregon, as do many other states, have attempted, by their liberal agendas, to ignore the RRFA, but the Hobby Lobby case before the Supreme Court last year established that they must accommodate the faith beliefs of business owners as well.

This couple is appealing the decision, which the BOLI will of course deny, and they can sue in federal court and force BOLI to comply with the federal law. It is a misnomer among many who support laws such as this that the federal law only applies to the federal government, but time and time again that concept has been rejected by the federal courts.

 

[Gr8grace]

No I don't but I don't know how one reconciles protest with certain scriptures, such as,

Romans 13: 1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work

1 Peter 2:13-25
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. ...


Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ



Correct I am, but that's not suprising really when one thinks about the division in Christendom and what really is truth?, very confusing because of so many different interpretations of the Holy Bible, but anyone is simple minded to think that they can discriminate and not have negative repercussions.

The Key in those verses are,"Live as people who are FREE."

Paul is talking about legitimate officials,legitimate rulers,legitimate government.

The Governing forces are to protect our freedom. And Gods word is talking authorities, and governments that live and uphold freedom. When they start attacking freedom or taking it away, It is the duty of the citizen to correct this and get back to Gods principle of freedom for mankind.

freedom, privacy, and property.........this is what a divine operating Government should protect. Here are some quotes I have seen around.......

Should you adopt thewords of Thomas Jefferson: “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God”? He andBenjamin Franklin proposed placing this motto on the Great Seal of the United States.Flags were made with this phrase on them and troops marched into battle against theBritish believing in this motto. Were they violating Scripture? What about this quotefrom Jefferson? "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned fromtime to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Theremedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them." --Thomas Jefferson toWilliam Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

“Sometimes we just need to render unto Caesar a good, old fashioned, ass whoopin'.”

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

It's going to get tense now:

Bakers who refused to make lesbian wedding cake told to pay $135K by Monday -- or else

Two Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages by July 13 or else the state of Oregon could place a lien on their home.

BOLI told Fox News they can ask for a stay of enforcement pending an appeal, but there's a catch. The person who will determine whether or not to stay the order is BOLI Commissioner Brad Avakian, a vocal supporter of the LGBT movement. They're boxed in by a legalized conflict of interest that can only be circumvented if they can get a court order, which is likely going to be difficult to do in four days.

 

[Mitspa]

Its sad that some in our government have become so twisted that they will oppress honest citizens to force they accept wickedness.

 

[Utah]

You don't get to be a special class or group of people because of your sexual desires.

Under the guise of godless, anarchist democrats, gays are now the most protected, special class in America.

 

[kaylagrl]

get some real history----------about the civil war---------for state's rights? lol
As far as your antecedents----------the South----your pride------that speaks for itself.
Like I said.







your degrees------------make you smart? Or you can't think of any history instead?

Apparently history has been forgotten.Here are a few more flags that should be taken down...













The British,France,Spain,Portugal,Netherlands all made huge fortunes off the slave trade.Then we can add North Africa who traded in white slaves called the Barbary Slave Trade about which a book was written " Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy" by Prof.Robert Davis.
You cant change a persons heart by the removal of a flag. The shooter was evil,plan and simple a flag didnt make him kill anyone.You can remove everything in the country having to do with the Confederacy and you wont change one racist persons mind.Only God can do that.

 

[kaylagrl]

​ Should a Jewish bakery be forced to bake a cake for Nazi supporters and serve at a party on Hitlers birthday as many Nazi supporters do? Should a gay bakery be forced to make a cake for a Christian youth group and put a Bible verse on it or a Christian wedding? Seems only one sided here.Only Christians are being beaten up in the liberal media.Funny how that works...

 

[kedge]

“Sometimes we just need to render unto Caesar a good, old fashioned, ass whoopin'.”

You condone violence then?, I just see never ending debates and arguments, no real winners no real losers and an apparent oxymoron and rhetoric through interpretation. I personally think nobody really knows the absolute truth, perhaps some truth in some matters?. I'm starting to think why should I care about all this rubbish?, I think i'll just get on with life, try to do the best I can, grow old and then die, yeah dust is what I am and dust is what I shall return to like my forefathers who came before me, there is no heaven reward there is no fieryhell it's all an interpretation with no actual real proof, all of it is just another human hope, i guess there is nothing wrong with that though, whatever floats one's boat and all that jazz.

 

[Galahad]

No not really, i'll challenge you any day of the week.

Why you little varmint. You would fight Galahad? Will you challenge me on Monday? How about Tuesday? Kinda like "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
Do you like green eggs and ham? Would you challenge me on a Monday? You would challenge me on a Monday if you could.

Kedge, I don't know what you mean by challenge or why you mentioned it. Please read your post to which I had responded. Then read my response. You said you swore never to come back to CC. You referred to folks who believe that homosexuality is a sin as simple minded folks.

You evidently were unable to keep your word never to return. Was your promise to never to return too difficult for you? It's okay if it was. Just be careful with your words. Simple minded people in my experience are the ones who end up helping and standing by me when I've need help. It's the high minded and mighty folks who hoard and who aren't offering help when I've needed it. Check your life. You will find that simple minded people are strong, determined, and caring.

 

[Galahad]

And you're the one's paying the fines?


Well that is your choice but how come the american christians were fined by the courts then?

That's with limitations, that's what i'm seeing.


I don't need to hide, and personally you're not going to win all fights, in fact those bakery christians lost the fight, they were fined by the american authority.

When the fight is between laws of the land and the law of God, Christians will always pay a penalty. It's by default. Christians will always obey God. His word and will are not up for compromise.
Living for the Lord always has a hefty price, sooner or later it will cost us something. But the victory is in the Lord Jesus.

Kedge, Christians carry a cross. We die daily for the Lord!

 

[crossnote]

It's going to get tense now:

BOLI told Fox News they can ask for a stay of enforcement pending an appeal, but there's a catch. The person who will determine whether or not to stay the order is BOLI Commissioner Brad Avakian, a vocal supporter of the LGBT movement. They're boxed in by a legalized conflict of interest that can only be circumvented if they can get a court order, which is likely going to be difficult to do in four days.

Who is representing this couple?

 

[Jimbone]

You condone violence then?, I just see never ending debates and arguments, no real winners no real losers and an apparent oxymoron and rhetoric through interpretation. I personally think nobody really knows the absolute truth, perhaps some truth in some matters?. I'm starting to think why should I care about all this rubbish?, I think i'll just get on with life, try to do the best I can, grow old and then die, yeah dust is what I am and dust is what I shall return to like my forefathers who came before me, there is no heaven reward there is no fieryhell it's all an interpretation with no actual real proof, all of it is just another human hope, i guess there is nothing wrong with that though, whatever floats one's boat and all that jazz.

That's a super sad outlook man, and I'm sorry you feel that way, and I will pray that God pulls you in. I understand how you feel because I've felt the same way even as a "proclaiming" Christian. It took a life changing tragedy to get me to even think about this kind of stuff. This time 2 years ago, when I wasn’t contemplating suicide or just plain wishing for death, I would have rather been playing a video game or watching the latest movie out on Blu-ray than talking on a Christian site, or going to church, or even spending time with my boys after work if I’m brutally honest, but something changed me. It was something more than just the permanent loss of function in my dominate right arm, and thinking I was already a Christian I wasn’t seeking Jesus at this time at all. It all just got me to the point that I knew I had no power to do anything about it, nor could anyone else.

One day (Oct. 28,2013) while at home alone I hit the ground crying and saying “I can’t do this anymore” x5, and “world you win, I lose, and I quit”. The next day when I woke up I was all new, but at this time had no idea how new or even why. It took me a couple days to realize exactly what happened and why I didn’t feel like dying, or killing myself or any of the other things that had been changed overnight, after that I think I walked around for a month with my mouth wide open realizing that God was real and Jesus was the way to be reconciled to Him, and that it can be proved to us. I can’t emphasize enough how honestly I say this, but brother I KNOW God is real and there is more to life than what you just described and want you to find the same truth, peace, and understanding Gods shown me. I know it’s easy to just write me off as a loon and plenty in the world to support the “no God” viewpoint, but If I can ever be of any help at all to answer any questions about how I came to these conclusions, or anything at all I could do to help get you saved, please don’t hesitate to ask. That’s what my God calls me to do. I wish you the best either way.