This is not simply my opinion friend. As I have already said, not allowing women to assume the role of men in the assembly is not a bias, it is a commandment based on a revealed principle. But, I know you have your mind made up on this matter and I know that you will listen to neither me nor the text on this matter. You will chose to believe what you will based not on what what scripture tells you but in spite of it.
Woman position ( 1 Corinthians 14:34-37)
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As hermit noted, once again you are making an assumption. Acts does not say they were having church, and Corinthians does not say they were teaching in church.
Again as hermit noted, why would they defy Paul's teachings? This is not unlike paintings of Christ that show Him with long hair. Why would Christ have long hair when nature teaches it is a shame for men? Would Christ defy nature, a design instituted by His Father?
Again as hermit noted, why would they defy Paul's teachings? This is not unlike paintings of Christ that show Him with long hair. Why would Christ have long hair when nature teaches it is a shame for men? Would Christ defy nature, a design instituted by His Father?
Your assumption is that I am making an assumption that I have no right to make. Thus, your assumption is Biblical Truth, and not an understanding of Scripture you have come to accept. In other words, you are reading with perfect understanding, and I am the one in error. But, then, such is the way here on the BDF.
You are making an assumption as to Priscilla's involvement in the church in their home that is not stated in Scripture. Clearly Paul valued both Aquila and Priscilla, and their work for the Kingdom. As Paul clearly accepted Priscilla's teaching of men, and praised her for her work with him in his ministry, it is clear to me that what he spoke to the Corinthians was to a specific issue that congregation was having, and not intended for Priscilla.
If, as you suggest, they openly defied the standard Paul set, why did Paul not chastise them for their defiance? Why did he praise them? Your continual insistence that I am making assumptions is a cop out argument in my opinion.
You are welcome to understand Scripture as you feel led to understand, and act accordingly. That does not however make you the final authority. Nor am I the final authority.
For those who believe as you do concerning women in the Ministry, there are plenty of churches that also believe that way, so all who believe such should have no problem finding a church to attend where they can be at peace with their beliefs.
For those who believe as I do concerning women in the Ministry, there are plenty of churches that also believe that way, so all who believe such should have no problem finding a church to attend where they can be at peace with their beliefs.
None of this involves the security of a persons salvation, or their being an heir to the Promise, so it comes down to what one believes they are led to believe. I will put my faith and trust in the understanding of Scripture the Holy Spirit has given me. Push come to shove, that is all one can do.
You are making an assumption as to Priscilla's involvement in the church in their home that is not stated in Scripture. Clearly Paul valued both Aquila and Priscilla, and their work for the Kingdom. As Paul clearly accepted Priscilla's teaching of men, and praised her for her work with him in his ministry, it is clear to me that what he spoke to the Corinthians was to a specific issue that congregation was having, and not intended for Priscilla.
If, as you suggest, they openly defied the standard Paul set, why did Paul not chastise them for their defiance? Why did he praise them? Your continual insistence that I am making assumptions is a cop out argument in my opinion.
You are welcome to understand Scripture as you feel led to understand, and act accordingly. That does not however make you the final authority. Nor am I the final authority.
For those who believe as you do concerning women in the Ministry, there are plenty of churches that also believe that way, so all who believe such should have no problem finding a church to attend where they can be at peace with their beliefs.
For those who believe as I do concerning women in the Ministry, there are plenty of churches that also believe that way, so all who believe such should have no problem finding a church to attend where they can be at peace with their beliefs.
None of this involves the security of a persons salvation, or their being an heir to the Promise, so it comes down to what one believes they are led to believe. I will put my faith and trust in the understanding of Scripture the Holy Spirit has given me. Push come to shove, that is all one can do.
And once again, you are making the same assumptions he is.........and ignoring 1 Timothy 2:12. But that's ok.
For the record..............unless you or he has the Memo appointing either you or him as the Final Authority on all things Scriptural, I will place my faith and trust in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and the understanding He imparts to me. Both of you certainly have the right to disagree, and to believe as you wish............but that does not make you RIGHT and me WRONG. It simply means we have reached a different understanding of Scripture.
I do not recognize either of you as the Authoritative Teacher of Scripture, so why exactly should I bend to your understanding? Just as neither of you should bend to my understanding.
For the record..............unless you or he has the Memo appointing either you or him as the Final Authority on all things Scriptural, I will place my faith and trust in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and the understanding He imparts to me. Both of you certainly have the right to disagree, and to believe as you wish............but that does not make you RIGHT and me WRONG. It simply means we have reached a different understanding of Scripture.
I do not recognize either of you as the Authoritative Teacher of Scripture, so why exactly should I bend to your understanding? Just as neither of you should bend to my understanding.
Additional considerations from his Epistle to the Corinthians.
1 Corinthians 7:1 .) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 .) Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 .) Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 .) The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 .) Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6 .) But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 .) For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 .) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 .) But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10 .) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
12 .) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 .) And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
23 .) Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
24 .) Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
25 .) Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
26 .) I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.
One must keep in mind that Paul wrote in two distinct styles.......as shown above.
1 Corinthians 7:1 .) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 .) Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 .) Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 .) The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 .) Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6 .) But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 .) For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 .) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 .) But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10 .) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
12 .) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 .) And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
23 .) Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
24 .) Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
25 .) Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
26 .) I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.
One must keep in mind that Paul wrote in two distinct styles.......as shown above.
1 Timothy 2, written at a time when there was no New Testament, in my view prevents a woman being 'in authority' over the church. Those in authority determined doctrine on the basis of what had been received by the Apostles and what was known of the life and teaching of Jesus Christ.
But I would not see it as meaning that they could not preach, with oversight of the leadership being observed. Indeed Priscilla, Lydia, the daughters of Phillip and others appear to have exercised acceptable ministries. It need hardly be pointed out that without women preachers missionary work would have been severely hindered, but in most cases these women then appointed men to be in authority over the churches.
1 Corinthians 14 was talking about the generality of women and had in mind their interference in worship by asking questions. Women tend to be more gossipy than men.
It is an unquestionable fact (although no doubt it will be questioned by some), that women think in a different way than men. Men tend to think more logically, women more intuitively. That is not to deride one approach as against the other. But it would explain why, at a time when the church had no New Testament, it was felt necessary for men to be in authority.
Of course, as Biblical history makes clear, there were exceptional men and exceptional women whom God selected out for special ministries. But they were an exception to the wise general rules.
But I would not see it as meaning that they could not preach, with oversight of the leadership being observed. Indeed Priscilla, Lydia, the daughters of Phillip and others appear to have exercised acceptable ministries. It need hardly be pointed out that without women preachers missionary work would have been severely hindered, but in most cases these women then appointed men to be in authority over the churches.
1 Corinthians 14 was talking about the generality of women and had in mind their interference in worship by asking questions. Women tend to be more gossipy than men.
It is an unquestionable fact (although no doubt it will be questioned by some), that women think in a different way than men. Men tend to think more logically, women more intuitively. That is not to deride one approach as against the other. But it would explain why, at a time when the church had no New Testament, it was felt necessary for men to be in authority.
Of course, as Biblical history makes clear, there were exceptional men and exceptional women whom God selected out for special ministries. But they were an exception to the wise general rules.
This order is about every churches of the saints, like the letter tells.
33. ...As in all the churches of the saints, 34. let the women keep silence in the churches... (1 Corinth 14:33-34)
Against the truth you are again, because you love this world, and God's word has find no space on you.
The word of God change by your hand.
33. ...As in all the churches of the saints, 34. let the women keep silence in the churches... (1 Corinth 14:33-34)
Against the truth you are again, because you love this world, and God's word has find no space on you.
The word of God change by your hand.
A
What is it with guys and how much they think they should be teaching women? Got to say, you have no authority to teach me squat! That's hubby's job. If not him, Dad. If not them, pastor. If not them, whoever I'm willing to listen to, and then it stops being a job.
Why can't you teach men's responsibilities? My husband, my mother, my grandmothers, my older sisters in Christ have already taught me my responsibilities. Should we women be teaching men their responsibilities, because, judging from this forum, no one is teaching that! You're too busy thinking you know everything about how women should act! And even then, you teach the surface stuff, proving you are no teacher, and don't even understand the lesson plan!
That's not humility! That's arrogance!
Titus 2:6 Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. 7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, 8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.
And you're the younger man unaware of your position in the church.
Why can't you teach men's responsibilities? My husband, my mother, my grandmothers, my older sisters in Christ have already taught me my responsibilities. Should we women be teaching men their responsibilities, because, judging from this forum, no one is teaching that! You're too busy thinking you know everything about how women should act! And even then, you teach the surface stuff, proving you are no teacher, and don't even understand the lesson plan!
That's not humility! That's arrogance!
Titus 2:6 Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. 7 Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, 8 and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.
And you're the younger man unaware of your position in the church.
Its important to understand that in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul was writing to a disruptive church in Corinth. The meetings were chaos, everyone speaking at once, and in different languages with no interpreters. Paul wrote; "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). So Paul told the men to keep quiet prior to telling the women. I believe Paul was trying to encourage an atmosphere of learning instead of confusion. Paul wrote; "Let all things be done unto edifying.. for God is not the author of confusion.. Let all things be done decently and in order" (vs 26,33,&40). So it seems evident that Paul was trying to eliminate everyone talking at once because the chatter and questions were disruptive. Even today, imagine that if everyone talked at once in a service, the primary speaker could not be heard. "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn" (1 Corinthians 14:31)
No he don,t he writes about general instructions, and he say that it is a commandment of the Lord, what he writes about woman position, and he say that this is order in every church of saints.
It is in the letter.
33. for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, 34. let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. 35. And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church. 36. What? was it from you that the word of God went forth? or came it unto you alone? 37. If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment of the Lord. (Corinth 14:33-37)
Why do you people's always have to try to change the truth?
The salvation is when we submit our selves to values of God.
It is in the letter.
33. for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, 34. let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. 35. And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church. 36. What? was it from you that the word of God went forth? or came it unto you alone? 37. If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment of the Lord. (Corinth 14:33-37)
Why do you people's always have to try to change the truth?
The salvation is when we submit our selves to values of God.
Funny how the same guy who wrote that also wrote this:
Galatians 3:25 .) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 .) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 .) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 .) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 .) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Hmm.............
Galatians 3:25 .) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 .) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 .) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 .) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 .) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Hmm.............
There is an underlining assumption in what Paul is saying. The authority with which the women in general were sharing was not good or informed. Their background and understanding would have been clearly understood by those receiving the letter.
Put simply you do not have to spell out the generalisation at that time none of the women could contribute much, because it was the men who had the learning and ability.
Now we are commanded to regard everyone else as better than ourselves, that we should serve one another, and look to teach to empower and enable. Too much of church is thought of as an oracle speaking, which must not be questioned or thought through. Women as well as men are equally capable of contributing and bringing encouraging words.
There is always in the question of authority in respect to disputes who tends to be the person who holds sway. Again for me it is stupid to say this is on sexist lines, rather it is theology and understanding.
Put simply you do not have to spell out the generalisation at that time none of the women could contribute much, because it was the men who had the learning and ability.
Now we are commanded to regard everyone else as better than ourselves, that we should serve one another, and look to teach to empower and enable. Too much of church is thought of as an oracle speaking, which must not be questioned or thought through. Women as well as men are equally capable of contributing and bringing encouraging words.
There is always in the question of authority in respect to disputes who tends to be the person who holds sway. Again for me it is stupid to say this is on sexist lines, rather it is theology and understanding.