Refute Against OSAS
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K
Yes which is why the bible says in the last days many will fall away from the faith because they will not be able to handle the all time high persecution and killing of Christians that will take place then. Some are going to be so distraught that when the man of sin reveals himself and starts this persecution and they are still here and not raptured away, and will not be able to hold up and endure that time hince only why those who endure will be saved.
K
1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Peter 1:4-5
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Peter 1:4-5
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Your just mouthing.
Osas has never been refuted only attacked.
"Major Church leaders"...that's a good line. That's like saying "the experts say"..
They 'banded together'? Who? What was their bands name? The un-OSAS posse?
Here we are in 2015 debating the same debate that has been going on for eons.
False doctrines will rise and I can just as easily say that those who parrot that a born again christian can be unborn are part of that false movement.
The Catholic Church is on the same page as your anti osas theology is, so you'd better be nicer to them.
Baptists had never taught it? Recheck your Church history.
Show me where a regenerate (born again believer) can be 'unborn', then we'll take it from there.
Remember, many of the warnings in Scripture are being written to Churches with mixed multitudes as you see today, so they are warnings to those who call themselves Christian but bear no fruit as Christians.
Osas has never been refuted only attacked.
"Major Church leaders"...that's a good line. That's like saying "the experts say"..
They 'banded together'? Who? What was their bands name? The un-OSAS posse?
Here we are in 2015 debating the same debate that has been going on for eons.
False doctrines will rise and I can just as easily say that those who parrot that a born again christian can be unborn are part of that false movement.
The Catholic Church is on the same page as your anti osas theology is, so you'd better be nicer to them.
Baptists had never taught it? Recheck your Church history.
Show me where a regenerate (born again believer) can be 'unborn', then we'll take it from there.
Remember, many of the warnings in Scripture are being written to Churches with mixed multitudes as you see today, so they are warnings to those who call themselves Christian but bear no fruit as Christians.
L
Here in Ro 3, he brought all this together and concluded that every one (Jew or Gentile, religious or pagan, moral or immoral) is guilty before God. Paul cited many Old Testament scriptures to verify this claim and to show that this was not some new doctrine. Faith in the sacrificial death of a savior was God's plan of redemption all along.Paul's arguments in Ro 3:9-18 provide the reason for salvation by grace through faith (Eph 2:8) and refute the doctrines of every other religion.People are so destitute that they cannot save themselves; they have to have a savior. Therefore, all other religions are wrong, because they don't provide a savior. To some degree or another, the other religions of the world teach that the burden of salvation is upon people's own shoulders.
In contrast, Christianity has a Savior, and not just some man: God Himself provided salvation for mankind. Within the ranks of those who claim Christianity, this is also the pivotal issue. Any deviation from trust in Jesus and His imputed righteousness, to reliance on our own holiness for right standing with God, is error.
Therefore, the truth expressed in these verses is critical to understanding God's plan of salvation. Since people could never "make up" for their sins, God did what people could not do; He paid the price Himself. No other method of payment is acceptable.
Bible Commentary notes NAS
In contrast, Christianity has a Savior, and not just some man: God Himself provided salvation for mankind. Within the ranks of those who claim Christianity, this is also the pivotal issue. Any deviation from trust in Jesus and His imputed righteousness, to reliance on our own holiness for right standing with God, is error.
Therefore, the truth expressed in these verses is critical to understanding God's plan of salvation. Since people could never "make up" for their sins, God did what people could not do; He paid the price Himself. No other method of payment is acceptable.
Bible Commentary notes NAS
L
More Bible commentary that says it very well. Good follow up verses.
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Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Note 2 at Ro 3:19: Paul had conclusively proven that both Jews and Gentiles were sinners ) and therefore incapable of saving themselves through their own works of righteousness. They both needed a savior. Here Paul began to reveal that the means of that salvation is through faith in Jesus the Messiah and not through people's moral goodness.
Note 3 at Ro 3:19: This very clear statement by Paul comes as a complete shock to most Christians. Christianity as a whole has embraced the Old Testament Law, and most Christians have never thought that the Law was not intended for them. However, Paul was saying that the Law was given to the Jews. The purpose of that Law was to produce guilt (see note 4 at this verse); therefore, those who deny their guilt before God can profit from its condemning effect (2Co 3:9 and 1Ti 1:9). But Christians who embrace the Old Testament Law (not everything that is in the Old Testament is Law) as God's gift to them have misunderstood its purpose.
That is not to say that we as Christians should reject the Old Testament as God's holy Word--God forbid. It certainly is God's Word and is, therefore, profitable for doctrine, reproof, etc. (2Ti 3:16). However, it needs to be interpreted in light of the New Covenant. Jesus didn't only set us free from the curse of the Law (Ga 3:13); He also set us free from the Law itself (Ro 4:16, 6:14-15, 7:4-6, 8:2; 2Co 3:7; Ga 2:19, 3:24-25, 4:21, 5:18; Eph 2:14-15; Col 2:14; 1Ti 1:9; Heb 7:18-19, 8:7-13, and 10:8-9). A desire to live under the commands of the Old Testament Law is a return to bondage and a misunderstanding of our New Covenant in Jesus (see , and).
Note 4 at Ro 3:19: Here Paul began to make a series of radical statements. They were radical because the Jews of his day, just like many church people of our day, thought that the Law of God was given so that they could earn their salvation through keeping it. That wasn't its purpose. The Law was not given for the purpose of producing justification (Ro 3:20, 28, 4:13; Ga 2:16, 3:11, 5:4; and Tit 3:5).
The Law was given to kill (2Co 3:7) and condemn (2Co 3:9). The Law strengthened sin (1Co 15:56) and made sin come alive (Ro 7:9). The Law gave sin an occasion against us to deceive us and work all manner of lust in us (Ro 7:8 and 11). In short, the Law strengthened our enemy, sin, not us.
Why would God give us something that strengthened our enemy? It's because sin had already beaten us, and we didn't know it. Mankind was deceived into thinking that although we weren't perfect, surely our sins weren't that bad. We really were pretty good people, and the outcome would be "okay." The only thing wrong with that thinking is that God doesn't grade on a curve. It doesn't matter if we are better than someone else. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Ro 3:23), and the wages for sin (any sin) is death (Ro 6:23).
Jas 2:10 says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." If we commit any sin, we are guilty of them all. It's similar to breaking a window. It doesn't matter how big a hole is made in the window. If it's broken, the whole window has to be replaced. If we break even the slightest command, we are guilty of breaking them all.
So God had to break the deception that people had fallen into, of thinking they were surely good enough to be accepted by God. The way He did this was to give the Law. It made sin and its lust come alive in people. To those who would receive it, it became obvious that if this holy perfection of the Law was what God demanded, people could not be saved by their own goodness.
That was the point that God wanted to make, and that was the point that Paul was making here. No one can be saved by keeping the Law, because all have sinned and come short of the Law's perfection (Ro 3:23).
Therefore, the Law stripped people of every excuse and made them guilty before God. The Law gave them knowledge of just how sinful they were and removed any deception of them ever being saved because they were such "nice guys" in comparison to others. As Paul said in Ga 3:23, "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." The Law took away every hope of salvation except faith in a savior. That was the purpose of the Law.
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Romans 3:19
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Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Note 3 at Ro 3:19: This very clear statement by Paul comes as a complete shock to most Christians. Christianity as a whole has embraced the Old Testament Law, and most Christians have never thought that the Law was not intended for them. However, Paul was saying that the Law was given to the Jews. The purpose of that Law was to produce guilt (see note 4 at this verse); therefore, those who deny their guilt before God can profit from its condemning effect (2Co 3:9 and 1Ti 1:9). But Christians who embrace the Old Testament Law (not everything that is in the Old Testament is Law) as God's gift to them have misunderstood its purpose.
That is not to say that we as Christians should reject the Old Testament as God's holy Word--God forbid. It certainly is God's Word and is, therefore, profitable for doctrine, reproof, etc. (2Ti 3:16). However, it needs to be interpreted in light of the New Covenant. Jesus didn't only set us free from the curse of the Law (Ga 3:13); He also set us free from the Law itself (Ro 4:16, 6:14-15, 7:4-6, 8:2; 2Co 3:7; Ga 2:19, 3:24-25, 4:21, 5:18; Eph 2:14-15; Col 2:14; 1Ti 1:9; Heb 7:18-19, 8:7-13, and 10:8-9). A desire to live under the commands of the Old Testament Law is a return to bondage and a misunderstanding of our New Covenant in Jesus (see , and).
Note 4 at Ro 3:19: Here Paul began to make a series of radical statements. They were radical because the Jews of his day, just like many church people of our day, thought that the Law of God was given so that they could earn their salvation through keeping it. That wasn't its purpose. The Law was not given for the purpose of producing justification (Ro 3:20, 28, 4:13; Ga 2:16, 3:11, 5:4; and Tit 3:5).
The Law was given to kill (2Co 3:7) and condemn (2Co 3:9). The Law strengthened sin (1Co 15:56) and made sin come alive (Ro 7:9). The Law gave sin an occasion against us to deceive us and work all manner of lust in us (Ro 7:8 and 11). In short, the Law strengthened our enemy, sin, not us.
Why would God give us something that strengthened our enemy? It's because sin had already beaten us, and we didn't know it. Mankind was deceived into thinking that although we weren't perfect, surely our sins weren't that bad. We really were pretty good people, and the outcome would be "okay." The only thing wrong with that thinking is that God doesn't grade on a curve. It doesn't matter if we are better than someone else. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Ro 3:23), and the wages for sin (any sin) is death (Ro 6:23).
Jas 2:10 says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." If we commit any sin, we are guilty of them all. It's similar to breaking a window. It doesn't matter how big a hole is made in the window. If it's broken, the whole window has to be replaced. If we break even the slightest command, we are guilty of breaking them all.
So God had to break the deception that people had fallen into, of thinking they were surely good enough to be accepted by God. The way He did this was to give the Law. It made sin and its lust come alive in people. To those who would receive it, it became obvious that if this holy perfection of the Law was what God demanded, people could not be saved by their own goodness.
That was the point that God wanted to make, and that was the point that Paul was making here. No one can be saved by keeping the Law, because all have sinned and come short of the Law's perfection (Ro 3:23).
Therefore, the Law stripped people of every excuse and made them guilty before God. The Law gave them knowledge of just how sinful they were and removed any deception of them ever being saved because they were such "nice guys" in comparison to others. As Paul said in Ga 3:23, "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." The Law took away every hope of salvation except faith in a savior. That was the purpose of the Law.
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Thank you so much for posting this. I learn a little bit more, sometimes am simply reminded of something important, each time I read or hear expository teachings, and I am so very grateful for this. Back to the Bible Canada has some broadcast archives you may be interested in listening to, or tune in through kari55.com where their radio program airs three times a day on weekdays (7 am, 12:30 pm, and 7:30 pm) 
L
Thank you so much for posting this. I learn a little bit more, sometimes am simply reminded of something important, each time I read or hear expository teachings, and I am so very grateful for this. Back to the Bible Canada has some broadcast archives you may be interested in listening to, or tune in through kari55.com where their radio program airs three times a day on weekdays (7 am, 12:30 pm, and 7:30 pm)
I know what you mean. Just discovered how to cut and paste here from other sources. It's amazing how much we have at our finger tips for Bible study on the computer!!! Tons of commentary by men and women of God. Different Bible versions that help see Greek and Hebrew. God gave teachers and preachers and evangelists to the church and it's great to take advantage of so many gifted people and their work in the body of Christ.
And even with so many different places to get information., we still must come to our own convictions from the HolySpirit that works in us as believers.
I know what you mean. Just discovered how to cut and paste here from other sources. It's amazing how much we have at our finger tips for Bible study on the computer!!! Tons of commentary by men and women of God. Different Bible versions that help see Greek and Hebrew. God gave teachers and preachers and evangelists to the church and it's great to take advantage of so many gifted people and their work in the body of Christ.
And even with so many different places to get information., we still must come to our own convictions from the HolySpirit that works in us as believers.
And even with so many different places to get information., we still must come to our own convictions from the HolySpirit that works in us as believers.
) I was challenged at every turn, and in every way. That first site was secular, and not very well moderated; I did not pass every test, but I suddenly had a purpose that felt not of my own making, yet nonetheless using my skills and abilities, as God uses all things to work out His plans. I found it exhilarating. I loved it. I was hooked. I still felt so fresh from my renunciation of the occult, that once, early on, when an occultist type person suddenly changed their avatar while talking to me, it actually spooked me and made me fret about the "energies" I was exposing myself to, but I kept my focus on Jesus as much as I could, and stuck it out. I learned a lot, not just about the boldness I had in Christ (quite a turn-around from my earlier very unhealthily co-dependent self), but about the depth and universal truths of Scriptures, and about myself. You are a wise woman, Lynn. So true that we must come to our own convictions from the HolySpirit that works in us as believers. Lynn, you are not alone, are never alone, are held so tight in the loving embrace of our Lord. May He bless you and keep you secure, you and your loved ones, all your loved ones. G'night, sweetie!
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Exactly! Show me the words "UN-Born," or "UN-regenerated," or "UN-sealed," or "UN-saved" in the Bible and then we'll take it from there.
Amen! I'm still looking for a verse in the Bible that specifically says a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation" but I can't find it. Instead we find, just to name a few:
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ALL of them.
Amen! I'm still looking for a verse in the Bible that specifically says a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation" but I can't find it. Instead we find, just to name a few:
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ALL of them.
Amen! Where is the counter verse to John 5:24 that says whoever stops hearing my word and stops believing in Him who sent me no longer has eternal life and shall go back into judgment and has passed from life back into death?
In John 3:18, we read - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. It's one or the other. Saving belief is rooted in Christ and continues and is not some shallow temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
In John 3:18, we read - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. It's one or the other. Saving belief is rooted in Christ and continues and is not some shallow temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
K
It is not about a shotgun approach but of teaching others sound doctrine on the true context of what is being said in the scriptures as the Holy Spirit has revealed to me. I have shown many times how people only give half truths from the scriptures, and I am just filling in the other half.
For instance Utah here below gives another scripture with the word "believe" in it, and the Lord gives us the true meaning of what believing in Him consists of;
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
(True faith in the Lord)
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
(False profession / Deceived person)
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
As mentioned above it shows believing in the Lord is a continuous action of placing your full trust in Jesus, which also means you trust to follow His teachings as well. Lord Jesus made this clear when He said those who love Him keep His teachings/commands and those who do not love Him do not.
For instance Utah here below gives another scripture with the word "believe" in it, and the Lord gives us the true meaning of what believing in Him consists of;
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
(True faith in the Lord)
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
(False profession / Deceived person)
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
As mentioned above it shows believing in the Lord is a continuous action of placing your full trust in Jesus, which also means you trust to follow His teachings as well. Lord Jesus made this clear when He said those who love Him keep His teachings/commands and those who do not love Him do not.
Seriously..............people act like every Scripture concerning this ideology has not been posted at least a thousand times.
I wonder if people here believe that every word Jesus spoke is Truth? If so, then they are going to have to deal with some of His words for sure.
What? Post them? Why? You guys have seen them posted, ignored, failed to deal with and denied them a thousand times, why should anything change this time?
To each his own............I'm just glad people choose to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior...........uh, er, wait, SNAP! Now the Calvinists will be posting.........sigh
I wonder if people here believe that every word Jesus spoke is Truth? If so, then they are going to have to deal with some of His words for sure.
What? Post them? Why? You guys have seen them posted, ignored, failed to deal with and denied them a thousand times, why should anything change this time?
To each his own............I'm just glad people choose to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior...........uh, er, wait, SNAP! Now the Calvinists will be posting.........sigh