Refute Against OSAS
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K
Well that is what Mitspa is trying to say, and I also have seen a few others on here try to say this as well that we have no free will.
Doing God's will in our lives means we by love obey what He gave us in His teachings, as it nowhere says we all of a sudden become puppets to a puppet master. That is not how grace and faith work because the Lord our God wants us to love Him freely and not by force.
Doing God's will in our lives means we by love obey what He gave us in His teachings, as it nowhere says we all of a sudden become puppets to a puppet master. That is not how grace and faith work because the Lord our God wants us to love Him freely and not by force.
It is an outward sign of the inward change that happened when we surrendered self will to the will of God and accepted the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ on our behalf. Some would call it an act of obedience (Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,... and, Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ...). Baptism is sometimes also accompanied by testifying to the church congregation, which is a very compelling means of not only introducing yourself to people you do not know, but also building up of the church through witnessing to it how the power of God is still very much an active force in the world. There were hundreds of people at my baptism! I will never forget it, nor the solemnity of the moment, nor the great joy I felt to be welcomed as one of God's children into His family.
LOL how could our spirits be physically anywhere? They are not physical. Do I presume you have been there to check? YOUR spirit may not be in the heavenlies. But mine is. I am in the heavenlies now in Christ.
James said nothing of the kind. And you clearly do not know the difference between the soul and the spirit. The soul is the life force. The spirit is that whereby we know and are in fellowship with God.
It is past tense not future. We have been seated with Christ in the heavenlies.
As I suspected you have limited understanding of the Scriptures. It is not a question of contradiction. It is a matter of phrases having different meanings.
JESUS said that we have eternal life right NOW (John 5.24; 10.27-28). This is confirmed by John (1 John 5.12-13). Paul is describing our future eternal life in Heaven.
The same applies to salvation. we have to differentiate between total salvation from the guilt and consequences of sin (Tit 3.5; Eph 2.8-9), present salvation from the power of sin (1 Cor 1.18; Phil 2.12-13), and future final salvation from sin's whole effects. Total salvation is guaranteed once we belong to Christ. It is the guarantee of eternal security. Present salvation is basically present sanctification. Future salvation yet awaits us, but is guaranteed in Christ. All salvation is the work of Christ..
True but that is final salvation, the last stage of the salvation process guaranteed to all who are 'saved'. We who are His are however 'sealed unto the Day of Redemption'.
James said nothing of the kind. And you clearly do not know the difference between the soul and the spirit. The soul is the life force. The spirit is that whereby we know and are in fellowship with God.
It is past tense not future. We have been seated with Christ in the heavenlies.
As I suspected you have limited understanding of the Scriptures. It is not a question of contradiction. It is a matter of phrases having different meanings.
JESUS said that we have eternal life right NOW (John 5.24; 10.27-28). This is confirmed by John (1 John 5.12-13). Paul is describing our future eternal life in Heaven.
The same applies to salvation. we have to differentiate between total salvation from the guilt and consequences of sin (Tit 3.5; Eph 2.8-9), present salvation from the power of sin (1 Cor 1.18; Phil 2.12-13), and future final salvation from sin's whole effects. Total salvation is guaranteed once we belong to Christ. It is the guarantee of eternal security. Present salvation is basically present sanctification. Future salvation yet awaits us, but is guaranteed in Christ. All salvation is the work of Christ..
True but that is final salvation, the last stage of the salvation process guaranteed to all who are 'saved'. We who are His are however 'sealed unto the Day of Redemption'.
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K
That concept was made by man as nowhere in the bible does it show different kinds of salvation when it comes to the faith.
Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One hope of salvation, not multiple forms of it, and again those passages you mention from the Lord are speaking when you go back to the original Greek, is a continuous belief of putting your trust in the Lord to help and obtain that salvation.
The eternal life that is abiding in us right now is the Holy Spirit, not ourselves having it as a physical possession.......
K
1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.
Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.
1 Corinthians 9:24-25
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Mark 13:9-13
“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Psalm 19:12-13 (unknown sins), Psalm 51: 12-14 (restore salvation), Psalm 139:23-24 (leading to salvation),
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Romans 2:6-10
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Luke 15
The Parable of the Lost Sheep
15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Matthew 28:16-20
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Acts 20:28-31
28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God[a] which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 25:1-13, 14-30; Luke 8:13, 9:62, 12:42-48; John 15:1-6; Acts 4:32, 5:1-11, 8:9-24, 20:28-30; Romans 11:13-23; 1 Cor. 9:26-27, 10:1-12; Galatians 2:11-14, 5:4, 6:1; 1 Timothy 1:18-20, 4:1, 5:8, 6:10; 2 Timothy 2:16-18; Hebrews 3:12, 4:1-2, 4:11, 6:4-8, 10:26-31, 10:38-39; James 5:19-20; 1 Peter 5:8; 2 Peter 2:1, 2:20-22, 3:17; 2 John 1:8-9; Revelation 2:4-5, 3:5, 3:16-17
*Things Children of God Can Do:
1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14
A HISTORICAL EXAMINATION
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.
Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.
1 Corinthians 9:24-25
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Mark 13:9-13
“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Psalm 19:12-13 (unknown sins), Psalm 51: 12-14 (restore salvation), Psalm 139:23-24 (leading to salvation),
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Romans 2:6-10
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Luke 15
The Parable of the Lost Sheep
15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Matthew 28:16-20
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Acts 20:28-31
28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God[a] which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Matthew 25:1-13, 14-30; Luke 8:13, 9:62, 12:42-48; John 15:1-6; Acts 4:32, 5:1-11, 8:9-24, 20:28-30; Romans 11:13-23; 1 Cor. 9:26-27, 10:1-12; Galatians 2:11-14, 5:4, 6:1; 1 Timothy 1:18-20, 4:1, 5:8, 6:10; 2 Timothy 2:16-18; Hebrews 3:12, 4:1-2, 4:11, 6:4-8, 10:26-31, 10:38-39; James 5:19-20; 1 Peter 5:8; 2 Peter 2:1, 2:20-22, 3:17; 2 John 1:8-9; Revelation 2:4-5, 3:5, 3:16-17
*Things Children of God Can Do:
1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14
A HISTORICAL EXAMINATION
you are so wrong that it saddens me that you walk in such darkness. The Bible so clearly reveals different aspects of salvation that I can only put down your dimness to the work of Satan..
Yes the hope of my calling is full salvation from the moment I became His.
strange spelling LOL c= s ling = vation. it does not say 'one hope of salvation'. But again you are so confused. My calling is to guaranteed salvation from the moment that Christ made me His own, TOTAL SALVATION. 'This is the Father's will Who sent me, that of ALL whom He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise them up at the Last Day.' Any child could understand it. Sadly you do not have the faith of a child..
you are so slow to understand. no one mentioned multiple forms. But there ARE multiple aspects. Total salvation in Christ which guarantees an entry into the heavenly kingdom, a continuing process of salvation from sin's power taking place through life (2 Cor 3.18), and the final entry into that kingdom when the salvation process is completed. Pray that God may open your eyes. You are losing so much and deluding others!!!!
I read the original Greek so I know you are lying.. Salvation does not come from 'continually putting your trust in the Lord'. Salvation is GOD's work and is a free gift. It RESULTS in men continually putting their trust in the Lord, because that is the CONSEQUENCE of the work God does within a man when He saves him. It is part of His salvation..
Absolute NONSENSE. WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE if we are His (1 John 5.13). You are twisting Scripture to try to justify your false ideas. It is CHRIST Who gives us eternal life, and nowhere is it said to equate to the Holy Spirit. Once again you deceive babes in Christ who read this thread. Your works will rightly be burned up.
Yes the hope of my calling is full salvation from the moment I became His.
strange spelling LOL c= s ling = vation. it does not say 'one hope of salvation'. But again you are so confused. My calling is to guaranteed salvation from the moment that Christ made me His own, TOTAL SALVATION. 'This is the Father's will Who sent me, that of ALL whom He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise them up at the Last Day.' Any child could understand it. Sadly you do not have the faith of a child..
you are so slow to understand. no one mentioned multiple forms. But there ARE multiple aspects. Total salvation in Christ which guarantees an entry into the heavenly kingdom, a continuing process of salvation from sin's power taking place through life (2 Cor 3.18), and the final entry into that kingdom when the salvation process is completed. Pray that God may open your eyes. You are losing so much and deluding others!!!!
I read the original Greek so I know you are lying.. Salvation does not come from 'continually putting your trust in the Lord'. Salvation is GOD's work and is a free gift. It RESULTS in men continually putting their trust in the Lord, because that is the CONSEQUENCE of the work God does within a man when He saves him. It is part of His salvation..
Absolute NONSENSE. WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE if we are His (1 John 5.13). You are twisting Scripture to try to justify your false ideas. It is CHRIST Who gives us eternal life, and nowhere is it said to equate to the Holy Spirit. Once again you deceive babes in Christ who read this thread. Your works will rightly be burned up.
I guess these types of threads regarding eternal security will continue as long as some do not understand the concept of "birth" and that birth is permanent, especially when born of something incorruptible and especially when that "birth" is of God - created within a person.
That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
I am starting to think that these folks believe " I know how to be right with God, I know how to " be saved" , so if you are like me, believe exactly what I do, then you are. but if in any area you disagree you are a lying sin-loving hell-bound deceiver. just an opinion I am starting to form. arrogant folks they are.
L
Just heard a message on this and it goes to the idea that we are saved by faith and we live a life of faith. Like if there was such a word as "faithing" that would help describe it. Was not talking about an idea of keeping your salvation by striving to keep what you have been given, but that you have been saved by faith you are to now walk by faith and not by sight.