Rev.13:12

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E

Eva1218

Guest
#61
Yes, I agree Kenneth C. I apologize if I did not make that clear in my response.

Blessings!!!!!!!
 
I

Is

Guest
#62
Daniel 7:25 uses the "he" to describe the beast.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Daniel 7:25

The time and times and the dividing of time is 3 1/2 yrs. The same time as the Antichrist and the second part of the tribulation.

The first beast of Rev.13:5 speaks great things and blasphemies just as Daniels beast and "is to continue forty and two months or 3 1/2 yrs just like the beast in Daniel 7:25.

One other thing is added to Daniel's beast and that is he will think to change times and laws, and that is exactly what Pope Gregory XIII did.

Rome ADMITS they changed the Sabbath
 
F

flob

Guest
#63
who cares about the Sabbath. how ridiculous. It's..............two parties arguing over something
equally silly. The Antichrist, Satan's 'masterpiece,' is yet to come. And just like there will
be this false trinity of dragon, beast, and beast; the 1st beast will also counterfeit resurrect---
resuscitate. To draw the world after him. Gregory was just a worm compared to the Antichrist.
 
I

Is

Guest
#64
who cares about the Sabbath. how ridiculous. It's..............two parties arguing over something
equally silly. The Antichrist, Satan's 'masterpiece,' is yet to come. And just like there will
be this false trinity of dragon, beast, and beast; the 1st beast will also counterfeit resurrect---
resuscitate. To draw the world after him. Gregory was just a worm compared to the Antichrist.
Get real, Antichrist has to portray himself as someone that would be able to make a covenant or deal with the Jews.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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#65
Yes, it was about the second beast but the ´FALSE PROPHET` pointed particularly to the Eastern Empire as it is understood historically that it was Constantine who established the Roman Catholic Church.
Friend, please tells us historically, when dd 'he' allow the Jews to rebuild the 'Temple' and allow them to 'perform' sacrifices according to the 'Law of Moses' and this is the first work of the 'first beast' in bringing 'peace'?

GOD bless you all in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
 
I

Is

Guest
#66
Friend, please tells us historically, when dd 'he' allow the Jews to rebuild the 'Temple' and allow them to 'perform' sacrifices according to the 'Law of Moses' and this is the first work of the 'first beast' in bringing 'peace'?

GOD bless you all in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
It is believed that there will be a form the revived Roman empire in the future with the church of Rome at it's head.
 
I

Is

Guest
#67
The dragon in Rev.12:3 is described as having seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns and Rev.20:2 describes the dragon as satan, and the beast in Rev.3 gets its power from the dragon.

Satan used the power of Rome to attempt to murder Jesus In Matt.2:13. Herod the Great, the King of Judea and Palestine was the agent Satan used in his attempt to kill the infant Jesus. It is significant to note that Herod received his office from the Roman Empire. In 37 B.C. Herod the Great conquered Jerusalem with the aid of Roman armies and made himself king.


dragon.jpg

A fresco in the Vatican, (The Sala di Constantino, Palazzi Vaticani, Rome) painted by RAFFAELLO (1509-10 A.D.).

gregoryxiii-dragon-medal-1582.jpg

The above papal medal of Pope Gregory XIII, designed by L Parm, is dated 1582, marking the year of the Gregorian calendar reform. On the reverse of the medal is a winged dragon / serpent encircling a ram's head. As previously mentioned, the dragon is the biblical symbol of Satan (Rev 12:9). The serpent that is chasing or devouring its tail is called Ouroboros, Uroboros, or Oureboros. The ram's head is also a satanic symbol, and is frequently associated with the Egyptian deities, such as the god Amon (Amoun, Ammun, Ammon), the king of all gods, who was also regarded as the sun god, and Khnum, who created mankind on his potter's wheel from the mud of the Nile.

rome-Gregor13.jpg

Guardian dragon at the base of the tomb of Gregory XIII
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
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#68
This may also help some to understand....

The false prophet spirit (spirit of a lie) is at work in many deceivers as written, let's confirm by scripture

So this spirit working in many deceivers may come in the name of Christ, and even portray that same visible outward image,(sheep’s clothing, or like a lamb) but their doctrine prove they are truly of the Dragon. (speaks lies like the Dragon, or Devil=father of lies)


Jesus said in
Matthew 24:5 “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” And also in Luke 21:8 “And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.”

So again, we see many deceivers who will put on that outward lamb image, but those that know Christs voice shall also know they speak like a Dragon.
(lies)


Also we read in
Revelation 13:13 “And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, So these false prophets will work wonders, but note the last part of that verse “in the sight of men”, which means in the eyes of men they will be great wonders. But we are told in the next verse that he “deceives them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles” So they are false miracles(or even lying wonders)

2 Thessalonians 2:9 “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,”
Alright, before I get back to the “eyes of men” part, let’s confirm again how there were to be many false prophets doing signs and wonders. Matthew 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22 “For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
And again here in 1 John 4:1 “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” So that confirms without a doubt by many verses of scripture that there would be many false prophets who would be of that same spirit of antichrist showing signs and lying wonders in the sight of men.
2 Peter 2:1-12 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
[SUP]8 [/SUP](For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"

That which is first is flesh, the first man is natural and is of the earth, men are beasts as written. :)
 
B

biblicaltruth15

Guest
#69
Friend, please tells us historically, when dd 'he' allow the Jews to rebuild the 'Temple' and allow them to 'perform' sacrifices according to the 'Law of Moses' and this is the first work of the 'first beast' in bringing 'peace'?

GOD bless you all in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Sorry, but i don`t understand clearly your question. Please would you present it again but more clear and direct? Thanks!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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#70
Daniel 7:25 uses the "he" to describe the beast.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Daniel 7:25

The time and times and the dividing of time is 3 1/2 yrs.
why should it be? 'times' could be a number of years. And why should a time be a year? It is more like thee 'sevens' of Daniel 9, periods which are in God's hands.

Daniel knows nothing of a period of 1260 days or forty two months. His 1290 days in Dan 12 is significantly neither except to those who ignore details..



The same time as the Antichrist and the second part of the tribulation.
This is an assumption without foundation

The first beast of Rev.13:5 speaks great things and blasphemies just as Daniels beast and "is to continue forty and two months or 3 1/2 yrs just like the beast in Daniel 7:25.
As shown above your interpretation in in error. 1290 days is patently NOT 42 months. Nor is time, times and half a time three and a half years. It is all a fiddle.

One other thing is added to Daniel's beast and that is he will think to change times and laws, and that is exactly what Pope Gregory XIII did. Rome ADMITS they changed the Sabbath
That would hardly have been changing times and laws. And it was simply a boastful claim that was untrue. Rome did NOT change the Sabbath. The early church met on the first day of the week and the Sabbath was NEVER enjoined on Christians.
 
E

Eva1218

Guest
#71
To make myself more clear I believe there is a spirit of antichrist as well as thee antichrist. Any and all who do not accept JESUS as LORD are deceived by the spirit of antichrist. Now the antichrist in Revelation is a mere mimic of The GODHEAD FATHER SON HOLY GHOST, satan, antichrist and false prophet.

Blessings!!!!!!!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#72
The dragon in Rev.12:3 is described as having seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns and Rev.20:2 describes the dragon as satan, and the beast in Rev.3 gets its power from the dragon.

Satan used the power of Rome to attempt to murder Jesus In Matt.2:13. Herod the Great, the King of Judea and Palestine was the agent Satan used in his attempt to kill the infant Jesus. It is significant to note that Herod received his office from the Roman Empire. In 37 B.C. Herod the Great conquered Jerusalem with the aid of Roman armies and made himself king.


View attachment 128393

A fresco in the Vatican, (The Sala di Constantino, Palazzi Vaticani, Rome) painted by RAFFAELLO (1509-10 A.D.).

View attachment 128395

The above papal medal of Pope Gregory XIII, designed by L Parm, is dated 1582, marking the year of the Gregorian calendar reform. On the reverse of the medal is a winged dragon / serpent encircling a ram's head. As previously mentioned, the dragon is the biblical symbol of Satan (Rev 12:9). The serpent that is chasing or devouring its tail is called Ouroboros, Uroboros, or Oureboros. The ram's head is also a satanic symbol, and is frequently associated with the Egyptian deities, such as the god Amon (Amoun, Ammun, Ammon), the king of all gods, who was also regarded as the sun god, and Khnum, who created mankind on his potter's wheel from the mud of the Nile.

View attachment 128398

Guardian dragon at the base of the tomb of Gregory XIII
It is closer to the drakon with two horns of a lamb don't you think?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#73
It is believed that there will be a form the revived Roman empire in the future with the church of Rome at it's head.
or a revived Roman empire in the Middle East with Islam at its head?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#74
Get real, Antichrist has to portray himself as someone that would be able to make a covenant or deal with the Jews.
Only if you believe in the nonsensical seventieth seven divided off from the remainder
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#75
Yes, it was about the second beast but the ´FALSE PROPHET` pointed particularly to the Eastern Empire as it is understood historically that it was Constantine who established the Roman Catholic Church.
But Constantine did not establish the Roman Catholic church. It was established in 8th century AD.

As the Encyclopedia Britannica points out,
The Papacy was not organized until the second half of the 8th century. It broke away from the Eastern Church (in the Ency. Brit., 13th Ed., vol. 21, page 636) under Pippin III; also the Papacy, by Abbe Guette."
 
F

flob

Guest
#76
Only if you believe in the nonsensical seventieth seven divided off from the remainder
Lol. It's eminently sensible. Both for us to read and God to do.
God finished doing 69 of the sevens toward Israel in AD 30, when Messiah was crucified.
All that's left is for them to be born-again as a nation.





But Constantine did not establish the Roman Catholic church. It was established in 8th century AD.
Now this is sensical. Constantine was part of the process that led to Roman Catholicism (Jezebel/the great harlot),
but Catholicism wasn't established as we know her today............until later. (My understanding is Gregory the Great,
the great organizer, around AD 600.)
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#77
why should it be? 'times' could be a number of years. And why should a time be a year? It is more like thee 'sevens' of Daniel 9, periods which are in God's hands.

Daniel knows nothing of a period of 1260 days or forty two months. His 1290 days in Dan 12 is significantly neither except to those who ignore details..





This is an assumption without foundation



As shown above your interpretation in in error. 1290 days is patently NOT 42 months. Nor is time, times and half a time three and a half years. It is all a fiddle.



That would hardly have been changing times and laws. And it was simply a boastful claim that was untrue. Rome did NOT change the Sabbath. The early church met on the first day of the week and the Sabbath was NEVER enjoined on Christians.

What has been shown to you is not an assumption without a foundation.
The only ones that would even suggest this is those who have not done a Jewish history study and have not taken into account their calendar.

The Jewish prophecy standard has always placed the time, times and half a time as 3 1/2 years.
This when looking on a Jewish calendar also is the same length as 42 months or 1,260 days.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
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#78
To make myself more clear I believe there is a spirit of antichrist as well as thee antichrist. Any and all who do not accept JESUS as LORD are deceived by the spirit of antichrist. Now the antichrist in Revelation is a mere mimic of The GODHEAD FATHER SON HOLY GHOST, satan, antichrist and false prophet.

Blessings!!!!!!!
There is an opposite reflection of Father, Son (Lamb) and Holy Spirit. But I believe your representation if a bit off above. The spirit of antichrist(spirit of a lie) is the spirit working in all the false prophets. (many deceivers) For instance the opposite would be the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) which works in many of the Lords saints.

So I think the opposite reflection of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit would be better shown in the unholy triune as The father of this world (Prince of this world=Devil) or the Dragon, the Beast, and the false prophet spirit (spirit of antichrist, or spirit of a lie) from the father of lies, which works in many deceivers.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#79
To make myself more clear I believe there is a spirit of antichrist as well as thee antichrist. Any and all who do not accept JESUS as LORD are deceived by the spirit of antichrist. Now the antichrist in Revelation is a mere mimic of The GODHEAD FATHER SON HOLY GHOST, satan, antichrist and false prophet.

Blessings!!!!!!!

Yes as Revelation clearly shows that the beast and false prophet are two separate individuals during the tribulation, and the beast is given its power and authority from satan. When the Lord comes is says that He casts the beast and false prophet both into the lake of fire, and satan is taken and bound for 1,000 years.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#80
LOL Sorry, but I do not receive the doctrines of carnally minded men. But that explains why you believe and think the way you do, because you put your trust in Wally Shoebat, who is not the Master or the Holy Spirit that anoints the eyes so one can see. Here is my advice to you.....

Revelation 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


I do not put my trust in Shoebat but what you seem to refuse to do is realize that the Holy Spirit will lead us to other sources for understanding what is being said. You have been shown scripture after scripture, and source after source, and I can tell you have not even taken the time to look at any of them by your responses.

I think you are afraid to realize what you have been taught is false as you will not even dip into Jewish history study and how their calendar is used.

You are not all knowing and all wise, as that is a showing of pride to think that way.
I am not in sin that needs to be repented of that you keep trying to pass across, but you yourself refuse to see how the prophecies in the bible apply to physical earthly events. Being Spiritual minded does not mean you take and just cast away the earthly aspect, if you are going to do that then you are going to not see the signs that Jesus Himself told us to look for to know His return is near.