Once saved always saved?

[BarlyGurl]

And you think Jesus watches them go and wrings His hands and says, 'Oh dear I've failed again?'

Uh, NO, I do not think that at all... but your conclusion that I do leads me to inform you it is your own imagination... not any manifestation of the HS and you probably are making similar mistakes in other areas of your life.

 

[NetChaplain]

Hi Chris - I believe many have not come to understand the entirety of what salvation means, but this does not inhibit receiving it, just growing in it!

 

[ember]

When we are told to wear our armor that is definitely to believers because,well obviously. So what happens if we don't heed that warning? Satan gets us.

woah...hold the horses here

where does it say satan gets us? nowhere? that's right...nowhere

however, if we do want to hide our heads in the sand or believe the devil cannot interfere with our lives, then we are mistaken

we are told to put on the SPIRITUAL armor to protect ourselves from the wiles of the devil and frankly, in my experience, Christians who like to control and manipulate and God knows there are way too many of those on the loose

The helmet of salvation...salvation is where it begins...our salvation is the starting point and the brain is where the action is...renew you mind with scripture and pray for understanding according to the word...in other words, not your own understanding, but the understanding given by the Spirit of God that is in line with the Bible

 

[mwc68]

Wow ok. I wasn't going to"debate" anybody. Lol. I was asking if people had similar experiences where they felt like they had to be born again, again. Besides how would anybody debate other people's experiences. Anyone and everyone's answer would be their opinion based off their interpretation of scripture. But sure we can drop this topic. Touchy subject for some,I guess.

yeah, this is a touchy subject for most

 

[seed_time_harvest]

It will be said that those that were called Christians and became atheist or agnostic were never really saved and like the bible says"that's why they left so we would know that they were never of us.And also everyone that has this hope in them seeks to purify themselves.

There are good scriptures proving both sides.

I think the only way it can be proven correct or error(OSAS) is to be able to interpret a scripture that is for OSAS and interpret a scripture that is against OSAS and make the scriptures harmonize proving OSAS to be correct or in error.

Because we all know that scripture should interpret scripture.

Other wise we will be just debating and people will just give opinionated interpretation without scripture harmonization.

I agree, there's scripture supporting osas and also scripture warning of a falling away. King Saul was anointed by God, yet he rebelled, was unrepentant, and fell away. Judas was chosen by Christ and betrayed him. Even Satan himself was appointed to a high position at one time.. I personally believe its possible to fall from grace. As long as people have a choice, they can change their minds.

The problem I have with the slogan "osas" is that while it assures us that God will not forsake a believer, many young people interpret it as a guarantee and run with the freedom to sin. My nephew went to church once, he answered an altar call where the minister assured him that he was saved. My nephew never went back and became a heroine addict. When I tried to encourage him to go to rehab and go back to church, he said; "I don't need to, I'm already saved and can do whatever I want". I suspect that many people profess to be a Christian just for the insurance, when God wants us to live as Christians for the assurance. My nephew died last Saturday of an over-dose, no problem though, he was insured by osas inc.

This deserves rep points .
Thanks brother Dan58

 

[MarcR]

Thank you crossnote. Although I don't know if that was what was happening to me. Twenty years is a long time for the seed to start to grow. I feel like I stepped away from Jesus not that He stepped away from me. I think I let my guard down and Satan got me. I thank God that now I am no longer lost.

I don't know if this will help you; but this is how I see it:

We are told: John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
KJV

The word 'Lord' means owner. When we accept Jesus as Lord, we accept His ownership. His payment of the penalty for our sin(s) was our purchase price.

After acknowledging Jesus' ownership; we lack moth the means and the authority to cancel that ownership.

We can still stray from following the Lord in our daily or hourly choices; but that brings chastening not loss of salvation.

 

[Elin]

Short answer:

There is counterfeit faith (Mt 7:22-23), and there is true faith of the born again.

Counterfeit faith eventually apostasizes permanently, true faith preserveres.

The Scriptures used to show loss of salvation actually apply to counterfeit faith, which does not save.
The Scriptures showing the security of salvation refer to true faith of the born again.

The issue is true faith vs. counterfeit, not security of salvation vs. loss of salvation.
There is no loss of salvation. God keeps his own.

Where do you come up with this idea, since it was the Lord Himself who said thus:

Matt 10:22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

Yes, saving faith endures to the end, counterfeit faith does not.

And this one, very much so, gives context:

Matt 13:20 "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
Matt 13:21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

Yes, his faith was counterfeit, it did not have the root (rebirth), which his falling away (apostasy) showed (1Jn 2:19).

and here, too:

Matt 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Oh, and let us certainly not forget this one, which could not be more clear!:

Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

God's kindness is salvation through faith by grace.
God's severity is against those who profess faith in him and then rebel, apostasize.

We continue in God's kindness by continuing in faith.
We come under God's severity when we rebel, apostasize, as the Jews did.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant And you think Jesus watches them go and wrings His hands and says, 'Oh dear I've failed again?'

Uh, NO, I do not think that at all... but your conclusion that I do leads me to inform you it is your own imagination... not any manifestation of the HS and you probably are making similar mistakes in other areas of your life.

LOL it was a question to make you think. But I do love the way so many of you control the Holy Spirit and know Him better than He knows Himself

 

[Splagna]

Oh sorry I didn't see any others on this topic. I'm not really looking for someone to answer it for me. I believe the answer is in the bible. I'm just wondering if anyone has any personal experience like me. Where you got born again, again?

Oh my yes. Ditto! There's no doubt in my mind that during many of my teen years I had experienced salvation and had a desire to serve Him, however, by my late teens and for sure early 20's I was totally lost. This didn't happen all of a sudden. One day I didn't decide I would stop serving Christ. Instead, it happened incrementally. During my late teen years I fell in love with drag racing (nowhere in the Bible can I find that drag racing is a sin). As I became more involved I slowly became less involved with church and my devotional life slipped too. As a result I stopped abiding in Him, which resulted in a downward spiral.

Like you by my 20's I believed in Christ and would use scripture against Moonies (remember Rev. Moon?), but I was practicing many of the sins on the sin lists (for example Galatians 5:19-21) and according to scripture was lost.

I thank God that He never gave up on me and for the prayers of my family members and the constant witness of the two Baptist boys at work. As a result of God working through all of them I came back to the Lord and haven't looked back for over 35 years now.

Hey Christine1974, how about a cyber hi-five for a couple prodigal kids who have returned to their Father?

 

[Christine1974]

Oh my yes. Ditto! There's no doubt in my mind that during many of my teen years I had experienced salvation and had a desire to serve Him, however, by my late teens and for sure early 20's I was totally lost. This didn't happen all of a sudden. One day I didn't decide I would stop serving Christ. Instead, it happened incrementally. During my late teen years I fell in love with drag racing (nowhere in the Bible can I find that drag racing is a sin). As I became more involved I slowly became less involved with church and my devotional life slipped too. As a result I stopped abiding in Him, which resulted in a downward spiral.

Like you by my 20's I believed in Christ and would use scripture against Moonies (remember Rev. Moon?), but I was practicing many of the sins on the sin lists (for example Galatians 5:19-21) and according to scripture was lost.

I thank God that He never gave up on me and for the prayers of my family members and the constant witness of the two Baptist boys at work. As a result of God working through all of them I came back to the Lord and haven't looked back for over 35 years now.

Hey Christine1974, how about a cyber hi-five for a couple prodigal kids who have returned to their Father?

High five back at ya!!! I loved reading your post. For a minute I thought I was the only one that has felt this way. Thanks for responding.

 

[wattie]

Just an extra here--

The doctrine that saved people WILL persevere..

This is not completely biblical.

'He who endures to the end will be saved'-- context about this isn't about eternal salvation.. but deliverance from hard times/troubles. About a group getting out of a bad situation.

There will be FRUIT from salvation.. that is the result of Holy Spirit saving someone.. that doesn't mean that person WILL persevere till the end.

If you say a person who isn't doing good works was never saved in the first place.. that's Lordship salvation and contrary to scriptures.

OSAS does not equal Calvinism!

 

[KennethC]

Just an extra here--

The doctrine that saved people WILL persevere..

This is not completely biblical.

'He who endures to the end will be saved'-- context about this isn't about eternal salvation.. but deliverance from hard times/troubles. About a group getting out of a bad situation.

There will be FRUIT from salvation.. that is the result of Holy Spirit saving someone.. that doesn't mean that person WILL persevere till the end.

If you say a person who isn't doing good works was never saved in the first place.. that's Lordship salvation and contrary to scriptures.

OSAS does not equal Calvinism!

Actually that is not true because this goes hand and hand with what Apostle Paul said a number of times that only those who continue in the faith will receive eternal life, and those who fall away/depart will not. Plus you have this scripture from Hebrews that goes with what the Lord said in Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, and Matthew 7:21;

Hebrews 10:36


For you have need of endurance,
(Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13)

so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
(Matthew 7:21)


The promise is eternal life !!!

 

[passing_through]

Actually that is not true because this goes hand and hand with what Apostle Paul said a number of times that only those who continue in the faith will receive eternal life, and those who fall away/depart will not. Plus you have this scripture from Hebrews that goes with what the Lord said in Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, and Matthew 7:21;

Hebrews 10:36


For you have need of endurance,
(Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13)

so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
(Matthew 7:21)


The promise is eternal life !!!

I think I understand you. are you saying that the "endure to the end" clause is for the Millennium and that you believe in Eternal Security?

 

[KennethC]

I think I understand you. are you saying that the "endure to the end" clause is for the Millennium and that you believe in Eternal Security?

No the enduring to the end is for all believers as only those who keep the faith until they die in the flesh or the rapture comes first will receive eternal life.

Apostle Paul says constantly a number of times by faith we hope to receive and seek for eternal life, and only those who continue in the faith will receive this promise.

Also Matthew 10:22 is when the Lord commissioned the original 12 Apostles to spread the good news.
The endurance in the faith comes before the millennial reign of Christ, as the 1st Resurrection of believers takes place before the millennium. There is nothing to endure through during the millennium as that will be a time of peace under the Lord's rule.

No I am not an eternal security believer as that doctrine was started by Augustine and then later adopted and changed by Calvin to what we here as once saved always saved. The bible to many times speaks of those that will fall away and depart from the faith and not end up with eternal life, and the word of God says by 2 to 3 witnesses let the truth be established.

Jesus (Matthew 24:10-13), Paul and the Holy Spirit (1 Timothy 4:1) all three instruct that some will depart from the faith and not end up with salvation/eternal life. Apostle James also says this in James 5:19-20 !!!

 

[passing_through]

No the enduring to the end is for all believers as only those who keep the faith until they die in the flesh or the rapture comes first will receive eternal life.

Apostle Paul says constantly a number of times by faith we hope to receive and seek for eternal life, and only those who continue in the faith will receive this promise.

Also Matthew 10:22 is when the Lord commissioned the original 12 Apostles to spread the good news.
The endurance in the faith comes before the millennial reign of Christ, as the 1st Resurrection of believers takes place before the millennium. There is nothing to endure through during the millennium as that will be a time of peace under the Lord's rule.

No I am not an eternal security believer as that doctrine was started by Augustine and then later adopted and changed by Calvin to what we here as once saved always saved. The bible to many times speaks of those that will fall away and depart from the faith and not end up with eternal life, and the word of God says by 2 to 3 witnesses let the truth be established.

Jesus (Matthew 24:10-13), Paul and the Holy Spirit (1 Timothy 4:1) all three instruct that some will depart from the faith and not end up with salvation/eternal life. Apostle James also says this in James 5:19-20 !!!

Well then you're wrong.

 

[KennethC]

Well then you're wrong.

Sorry but if you are saying I am wrong then your debate is with the scriptures and I would ask that you go to prayer in those that I just showed you because they say exactly what I have said.

Matthew 10:22, Matthew 7:21, and Hebrews 10:36 have nothing to do with the Millennial reign of Christ, as they are instructions for all believers before the Lord returns........

 

[passing_through]

Sorry but if you are saying I am wrong then your debate is with the scriptures and I would ask that you go to prayer in those that I just showed you because they say exactly what I have said.

Matthew 10:22, Matthew 7:21, and Hebrews 10:36 have nothing to do with the Millennial reign of Christ, as they are instructions for all believers before the Lord returns........

You misinterpreted those verses, but I am not going to get into it, I would love dcon to address them if he would. I'm not running away.

 

[KennethC]

You misinterpreted those verses, but I am not going to get into it, I would love dcon to address them if he would. I'm not running away.

Well I have had my discussions with Dcon and he misuses a lot of verses, so if you are following what he says then I can understand you confussion. I go by the word of God and the direction of the Holy Spirit, not what another man says !!!

Changing verses on judgment and eternal life to say they are not speaking on those topics is a miss-justice to God's word.

 

[prayforsaving]

The answers is yes!! I promise your it is yes. I didn't really read the above comments so i don't know what they say, but if you want some verses message me and i will make sure you have your answer

 

[wattie]

Well I have had my discussions with Dcon and he misuses a lot of verses, so if you are following what he says then I can understand you confussion. I go by the word of God and the direction of the Holy Spirit, not what another man says !!!

Changing verses on judgment and eternal life to say they are not speaking on those topics is a miss-justice to God's word.

Kenneth-- dcon nor I CHANGE the verses.. we put them in the context they are in!

For eg.. 'he who endures to the end will be saved'.. the surrounding verses are about people escaping from trouble.. harsh times. The word 'save' here being in the sense of 'rescue' not 'rescue from sins for eternal life'

for eg.. 'faith without works is dead'..the surrounding verses are about accounts of people who are already converted doing acts of service to God. Abraham.. Rahab etc... Saving faith is not the topic. Eternal life is not the topic.

for eg. 'the verse with 'there is no longer a sacrifice for sins' ... surrounding context in Hebrews is about animal sacrifices no longer being required.. and so this verse would be about the same thing. Eternal salvation again is not the subject.

for eg. 'Abraham being 'justified by works' when he offered up his son Isaac. When you actually go to the account of Abraham doing that... it has nothing to do with receiving conversion from God.

His offering of his son was pleasing in the eyes of God... that is it. Again eternal salvation is not the subject.

I could go on..

The point being that the verses are not changed at all. ... they are put in their right surrounds!