If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

[Budman]

False allegations are not becoming of a Christian, as no I do not sin everyday....The word of God does not agree or support a sin everyday nature, as that shows that one is not born again in the Spirit.

Really? Can you name the dates when you went through a whole 24 hour day without committing a single sin by thought, word, or deed?

Those dates should be burned in your mind because they would be absolutely monumental.

I mean, if I ever went through an entire day without a single sin, I would tattoo that date on my face, so I could see it every day when I look in the mirror.


Wait....is getting a tattoo a sin to you?



Dang.....sinned again.

 

[Jason0047]

Stop indicting people and you will not be attacked.

First, I do not set out to attack anyone personally. However, many OSAS proponents over the years have made it their mission to make it personal. I am merely exposing a false belief according to the Scriptures. Second, if someone attacks the Biblical Teaching of Conditional Security, do I set out to attack them personally? No. However, others in the OSAS camp have been hateful, rude, mean, and cruel with their words. Paul says we are to love our enemies and we are to speak full of grace seasoned with salt. We are to hate the sin and not the sinner. We are to shine the light of God unto other people and not darkness. We are to be good and not bad. For God's love and the Holy Scriptures teach this. That is what this is all about.

 

[Budman]

Now this is to no one in particular but to everyone involved in this thread. I even asked myself this question before I am now typing it.

"How did we come to Christ in the first place?"

Did we come to Christ because we decided it was a good idea? Did we read something and decided we wanted to know Christ? Or did the Holy Spirit apart from anything we did compel us to come to Christ? This is not off topic but actually leads to the subject of OSAS.

Now please don't just answer this without thought. Think about it a bit and pray to God for understanding of this. This is not a trick question. And I am not "goading" anyone into what I think may be a false answer. This is a serious thought and one not to be taken lightly.

And yes I will give my own answer but I will not answer in a way to attack anyone. This one question will lead to why we each have a certain belief for or against OSAS. it will help us each understand better where each other's view comes from.

I came to Christ because the mirror of God's Law showed me what a hopeless, wretched, filthy sinner I am. And no matter how good I thought I was, no matter how many good deeds I thought I did, when the Law reflected God's awesome, perfect, burning righteousness - I knew I was completely undone.

All I could do, was reach with trembling hands, for the pardon that was offered from the blood-stained Cross. Gratefully accepting by faith alone, the payment that Jesus made on my behalf.

Giving Christ the glory for cleansing me, through grace, of my sins, for all time.


May His name be praised on earth and in heaven, forever and ever!

 

[Jason0047]

Now your just misrepresenting the facts which makes you a ?????? Your words were obvious and you said exactly what you believe and mean.....

Originally Posted by Jason0047

Paul kicked the man who committed fornication out of a church. So a believer can correct other believers. That is not sowing discord but it is called correcting believers on false beliefs.

As for your statement about trolls: The Word of God tells us to speak full of grace seasoned with salt. How exactly are you doing that by still calling me a troll and saying I am worse than an enemy. How is that even a New Testament teaching?

I could have worded it better, but I have never believed nor do I currently believe Paul personally kicked the man in 1 Corinthians 5 out of the church himself. Sorry, you are fishing without a boat here, my friend.

 

[Jason0047]

One day you will humble yourself, Jason, or life will.

Then you will preach the grace and truth of the gospel of Jesus

Not the canons of jason.

Really? What cannons? I do not own gun like weapons nor have I gone beyond what is written in God's Word. If you believe otherwise, you are going to have to provide post #'s, and then we can talk about it with God's Word; Otherwise you are just falsely accusing me for making things up when such a thing is not true.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

However, many OSAS proponents over the years have made it their mission to make it personal.[/COLOR]

Me thinks, Jason0047 address individuals as "OSAS proponents" regardless of whether or not the individuals are actually OSAS proponents.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Really? What cannons? I do not own gun like weapons nor have I gone beyond what is written in God's Word. If you believe otherwise, you are going to have to provide post #'s, and then we can talk about it with God's Word; Otherwise you are just falsely accusing me for making things up when such a thing is not true.

"I disagree, and here's what I want you to do, before I'll discuss."

 

[BradC]

One Question you failed to ask, which i believe is the most evident question that proves OSAS can't possibly be True is:

If once you are Saved, your name is written in the Book of Life and can't never be removed, why are there Scriptures which plainly teach a persons name can be removed from the Book of Life?


The mere fact that Scriptures teach a name once written in the Book of Life, can be blotted out of it. is ABSOLUTE PROOF, that Once Saved Always Saved, can't possibly be True.

Same line of questioning would be. Is it True once you are SAVED, your name is written in the Book of Life? Most know the answer to be TRUE. Then ask those who believe OSAS to explain how a person is blotted out of the Book of Life, ask them "Wasn't that persons name written in the Book prior, wasn't that person SAVED, thereby being written in the Book of Life, how then are they now blotted out of it?

People have been wearing those blinders for so long, they don't know the Truth, nor are they willing to learn the Truth, they are so use to the blinders.

Responding to OP

There are two books, the book of life, which every person conceived is entered in that book, being given life by God. Secondly, those who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb have their names written in the Lamb's book of life. Blotting of the name can only take place in the book of life and not the Lamb's book of life. Those blotted out of the book of life can not be written back in and are part of the second death. Those who remain in the book of life and those written in the Lamb's book of life are God's righteousness and will not be judged and condemned with the unjust and unrighteous. For those whose names have been blotted out of the book of life, they were never saved or redeemed and it would have been better for them that they had never been conceived and born into this life. Those written in the Lamb's book of life, who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of both Jew and Gentile, will make up the bride of Christ. They are one body and have not added to or taken away from the prophecy of God's book and they will have their part in the tree of life.

 

[Jason0047]

One Question you failed to ask, which i believe is the most evident question that proves OSAS can't possibly be True is:

If once you are Saved, your name is written in the Book of Life and can't never be removed, why are there Scriptures which plainly teach a persons name can be removed from the Book of Life?

The mere fact that Scriptures teach a name once written in the Book of Life, can be blotted out of it. is ABSOLUTE PROOF, that Once Saved Always Saved, can't possibly be True.

Same line of questioning would be. Is it True once you are SAVED, your name is written in the Book of Life? Most know the answer to be TRUE. Then ask those who believe OSAS to explain how a person is blotted out of the Book of Life, ask them "Wasn't that persons name written in the Book prior, wasn't that person SAVED, thereby being written in the Book of Life, how then are they now blotted out of it?

People have been wearing those blinders for so long, they don't know the Truth, nor are they willing to learn the Truth, they are so use to the blinders.

Responding to OP

Jesus said to the many disciples that He sent out that they were to rejoice that their names were written in heaven.

"Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven" (Luke 10:20).

So the many disciples did in fact have their names written in heaven. However, when they stopped following Jesus, their names would have been blotted out of the book (John 6:66) (Revelation 3:5). They did not endure because they had no root in God's Word and proved they were not one of the truly faithful followers in Christ within this life (i.e. the Elect). For they chose of their own free will to go their own way. Showing they were not one of the true brethren.

This is why we read elsewhere.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 John 2:19).

They were born again and once saved, but they were not of the Elect or those who had root in God's Word (Note: In reference to "having no root" see the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13). Hence, why they were not of us (i.e. the Elect). For God chooses the Elect based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choices (See 1 Peter 1, 2 with a special focus on verse 2).

 

[Budman]

Me thinks, Jason0047 address individuals as "OSAS proponents" regardless of whether or not the individuals are actually OSAS proponents.

With Jason, if you disagree with anything he "teaches" - you are an unbeliever or an apostate. Remember, he claims he is here to correct us and "expose" spiritual darkness. His pride will never allow him to admit he's wrong.

 

[Jason0047]

With Jason, if you disagree with anything he "teaches" - you are an unbeliever or an apostate. Remember, he claims he is here to correct us and "expose" spiritual darkness. His pride will never allow him to admit he's wrong.

Personal insults are not becoming of the saints. Prove your case with Scripture and by way of real world examples.

 

[Jason0047]

Me thinks, Jason0047 address individuals as "OSAS proponents" regardless of whether or not the individuals are actually OSAS proponents.

I have only run into 1-2 occurences where somebody who appeared to be against Biblical Conditional Salvation said they did not believe in OSAS. However, this is a very small minority of people that I have encountered who actually believe this way. So no. I do recognize there are those who say they are not OSAS but yet they are very similar in their beliefs, though.

 

[Budman]

What is this -- are you actually attempting to step down from your throne of self-righteousness?

People who believe as Jason and Kenneth do, are like the caged bird who sings. They love their bondage.

The truth is insulting to those who don't possess it. That's why Jason gets "offended" so easily - and relishes playing the victim of "personal attacks" or "insults".

He has the "suffering saint" act down to a science.

 

[dcontroversal]

People who believe as Jason and Kenneth do, are like the caged bird who sings. They love their bondage.

The truth is insulting to those who don't possess it. That's why Jason gets "offended" so easily - and relishes playing the victim of "personal attacks" or "insults".

He has the "suffering saint" act down to a science.

Not to mention being easily offended as well which is a sure sign of spiritual immaturity and or a lack of spirituality!

 

[Budman]

Not to mention being easily offended as well which is a sure sign of spiritual immaturity and or a lack of spirituality!

True. "Long-suffering" Jason isn't.

 

[Budman]

Wow. No quick reply from Jason? He must be busy reporting us to the mods.

 

[BradC]

Jesus said to the many disciples that He sent out that they were to rejoice that their names were written in heaven.

"Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven" (Luke 10:20).

So the many disciples did in fact have their names written in heaven. However, when they stopped following Jesus, their names would have been blotted out of the book (John 6:66) (Revelation 3:5). They did not endure because they had no root in God's Word and proved they were not one of the truly faithful followers in Christ within this life (i.e. the Elect). For they chose of their own free will to go their own way. Showing they were not one of the true brethren.

This is why we read elsewhere.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 John 2:19).

They were born again and once saved, but they were not of the Elect or those who had root in God's Word (Note: In reference to "having no root" see the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13). Hence, why they were not of us (i.e. the Elect). For God chooses the Elect based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choices (See 1 Peter 1, 2 with a special focus on verse 2).

Jason, you are putting a lot of stock in the word 'overcome' and what it means to you to be an overcomer. Let's talk about what an 'overcomer' is and how it applies to the NT saint who has overcome through the blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony (about the blood of the Lamb) and loving not their own lives unto the death (Rev 12:11). Their is privilege and reward in overcoming but not a lose of of the salvation that brought you to that place of overcoming. Peter was not yet converted (Lk 22:32) but when that conversion would take place he would be able to feed and strengthen the brethren.

Jason you put too much stock in a position that is not according to grace and confuse what God has done with imputed righteousness when we believe and the imparted righteousness that we will receive rewards for being a partaker of when we walk by faith in the promises of God. This is what the tree of life is all about...PRIVILEGE!!!!!!!! The lose that any believer may lose at the bema seat of Christ will be rewards of priviledge and not salvation through the blood of Christ. Jason, you are so mixed up and have such a perverted gospel that is so contrary to grace that you can not see the glory of God. The light you have is so filled with effort and striving in the flesh that is has turned into darkness because it is removed from the liberty we have in Christ, not to sin but to have life through the person of Christ in the body, the church. All the seven churches in Revelation 1-3, Christ is dealing with their works (12 times mentioned) and not their salvation or whether they have believed upon the Son and the cross of Christ.

The disciples that were sent out and later went back and followed him no more, could not partake of eating his flesh and drinking his blood and by doing so did not have the life of God in them. Jason, they were following but did not believe, were never saved, never received the righteousness in Christ and they ending up going back with the word made flesh having no root in them.

 

[dcontroversal]

True. "Long-suffering" Jason isn't.

He isn't the only one as his working for salvation pal is just as easily offended......You know...if they cannot handle a little heat in CC, how are they ever going to deal with the real persecution that will come as believers are ostracized, beheaded, imprisoned, beaten and overcome at the end of the age........!

The beast, little horn will make war against the saints, overcome them and wear them out for 1260 days/42 month/3.5 years at the end of the age and both Daniel and Revelation reference this soon to come war against the saints!

 

[Magenta]

There are two books, the book of life, which every person conceived is entered in that book, being given life by God. Secondly, those who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb have their names written in the Lamb's book of life. Blotting of the name can only take place in the book of life and not the Lamb's book of life. Those blotted out of the book of life can not be written back in and are part of the second death. Those who remain in the book of life and those written in the Lamb's book of life are God's righteousness and will not be judged and condemned with the unjust and unrighteous. For those whose names have been blotted out of the book of life, they were never saved or redeemed and it would have been better for them that they had never been conceived and born into this life. Those written in the Lamb's book of life, who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of both Jew and Gentile, will make up the bride of Christ. They are one body and have not added to or taken away from the prophecy of God's book and they will have their part in the tree of life.

Are you sure there are two different books? Some believe the eight references to the Book of Life in the Newer Testament to be one and the same as Book of Life that belongs to the Lamb, Jesus Christ, which is mentioned two of those eight times. Seven of the references to it are in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. Rev 3:5

and all who dwell on earth will worship it (the beast), everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. Rev 13:8

“If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Rev 20:15

And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast... Rev 17:8b

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. Rev 20:12

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Rev 21:27

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and... Rev 22:19

 

[oyster67]

I have only run into 1-2 occurences where somebody who appeared to be against Biblical Conditional Salvation said they did not believe in OSAS. However, this is a very small minority of people that I have encountered who actually believe this way. So no. I do recognize there are those who say they are not OSAS but yet they are very similar in their beliefs, though.

Jason, I am definitely not OSAS, but I don't think that one can easily lose their salvation, either. I believe that one must willfully toss it away. I desire to abide in the vine, therefore Jesus will keep me. I have no intention of ever leaving Him because I love Him. I strive to be perfect, but I don't think I will arrive until some future time when I will be glorified.

I do believe that I am positionally justified and positionally perfect in the Father's eyes so long as I plead the blood of Jesus. I do belief it is necessary to maintain a penitent spirit and ask forgiveness for errors that most would consider sin. Not doing so would constitute an act of rebellion, I believe. I do have blessed peace and assurance and do not fear losing my salvation.

Do you believe like this, if not, how do your beliefs differ?