Nicolaitanes philosophy of “systematic distortion” and negation of scripture.

[just-us-2]

This conversation turned into debating 'talking points 'rather quickly.

The SDA, the Mormons, the CoG, the CoC, the Calvinists, the Arminianists, the Charismatics, the Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, the Coptics... They all have certain truths right, but then err... and grievously. Will God forgive these doctrinal mistakes? I pray He does.

I don't have some doctrinal alternative to the lies everyone seems to accept as Truth,
But I just had to say it: that the arguments between the sects here prove the enemy has caused division,
and the pride of each side, thinking they alone are the one with clear view of Scripture, proves the Enemy as being active and able to manipulate culture.

I agree with your comments completely. I often heard in church the teaching that says we aren't responsible to do or not do something if we don't know if it is right or wrong, whether it even exists or not. The scripture used to teach it was Acts 17:30.
Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, (NAS)
In the past, God overlooked such ignorance; but now he is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins. (CJB)

This teaching was used as a crutch to not study the Word or learn anything other than what the pastor preached about, and that consisted of no more than a half dozen messages shuffled around and reused over and over (get 'em saved, tithing, etc). So the people did not grow, and that was by choice. Will God forgive that? I don't know. The same thing happens in cc - people just as stubbornly refuse to learn or even converse peacefully with one another. There are several others in here as well as lots of guests, who really want to learn. But the 'disrupters' make it miserable to try and actually be edified.

 

[oldthennew]

for out of the mouth proceeds the abundance of the heart...

may we all glean from the intent of the heart.....

thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and discoveries concerning this topic,
we both have learned some interesting facts and know that the Lord is teaching us all what to hate...

like it is written,
There's a time to love and a time to hate....we surely do hate the things of the nicolaitanes, baalam,
and that manipulative, wicked, woman, jezebel.....

all of the wicked and weak characters in the scriptures are our teachers right along side of the
'heros of Faith'.

we so Love our Father's family, we pray that the thoughts and intents of each of our hearts be in unity
at some point on some things, which will mesh and mold us and eventually bring us wholly together as one.

as it is written,
Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One and thou shall Love the Lord they God with all of our hearts, souls, minds.'

 

[Elin]

I agree with your comments completely. I often heard in church the teaching that says we aren't responsible to do or not do something if we don't know if it is right or wrong, whether it even exists or not. The scripture used to teach it was Acts 17:30.
Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, (NAS)
In the past, God overlooked such ignorance; but now he is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins. (CJB)

This teaching was used as a crutch to not study the Word or learn anything other than what the pastor preached about, and that consisted of no more than a half dozen messages shuffled around and reused over and over (get 'em saved, tithing, etc). So the people did not grow, and that was by choice. Will God forgive that? I don't know. The same thing happens in cc - people just as stubbornly refuse to learn or even converse peacefully with one another. There are several others in here as well as lots of guests, who really want to learn. But the 'disrupters' make it miserable to try and actually be edified.

Agreed. . .

 

[Elin]

This conversation turned into debating 'talking points 'rather quickly.

Honestly, the reason that the JWs are able to convert people is because it is truth mixed with lies. The issue with throwing it all out the window is... the modern Evangelical/Protestant/Charismatic church is just as apostate and distorted as the JWs.

The JWs have some things right, things that the Fundamentalists have wrong, which is why they can even convert people. People recognise the lies in their own beliefs when the JWs show them, and then they throw out the whole thing and accept the JW view... which is foolishness.
Satan is a crafty snake.

The SDA, the Mormons, the CoG, the CoC, the Calvinists, the Arminianists, the Charismatics, the Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, the Coptics... They all have certain truths right, but then err... and grievously. Will God forgive these doctrinal mistakes? I pray He does.

They know not what they do.

The systematics are all heretics,
and the authoritarians are all prideful swine.
Where is the Truth in this sea of lies and cultural pride?
In Christ alone.

I don't have some doctrinal alternative to the lies everyone seems to accept as Truth,
But I just had to say it: that the arguments between the sects here prove the enemy has caused division,
and the pride of each side, thinking they alone are the one with clear view of Scripture, proves the Enemy as being active and able to manipulate culture.

The Truth is not some single sided object.
It is like a diamond, with many sides and angles,
gleaming with each change of focus.
But we all get too stagnant to recognise the glory of this.

Keeping in mind that the Nicolatians and Balaam have nothing to do with the NT church now, and do not serve as any kind of proof of its corruption of doctrine, which is nothing more than an attempt to discredit the church now in favor of the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult.

 

[just-me]

“But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: (Acts 6:4-5)

This man Nicolas cannot be attributed as one that began the movement called “the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.” Nicolas seems to have been a person of good reputation in the churches surrounding, and including Antioch. Then in time, the name of “Nicolas” was used by the people who were collaborating together to incorporate this false doctrine into the church by deception, passing it off as good by using Deacon Nicolas' good name. I suppose Nicolas was a good choice for them because Nicolas wasn't of Jewish heritage but converted to Judaism. The anti law people would call him a “Judaizer” today.

It cannot be that this proselyte Nicolas was originally labeled as “Santa Claus” (Saint Nicolas) by what he truly taught and represented, but the false doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (not necessarily a sect of individuals) carried this name to our present day extreme that eventually evolved into the jolly old man that centers around Christmas, coordinating this holiday with with pope Gregory's calendar which the entire world observes to this day.

“Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.” (Jeremiah 10:1-4)

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

It cannot be that this proselyte Nicolas was originally labeled as “Santa Claus” (Saint Nicolas) by what he truly taught and represented, but the false doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (not necessarily a sect of individuals) carried this name to our present day extreme that eventually evolved into the jolly old man that centers around Christmas, coordinating this holiday with with pope Gregory's calendar which the entire world observes to this day.

these are two different people...'saint nicholas' was nicholas of myra...not deacon nicolas of antioch...

so there is no connection between the teaching of the nicolaitans and santa claus or christmas...

 

[just-me]

these are two different people...'saint nicholas' was nicholas of myra...not deacon nicolas of antioch...

so there is no connection between the teaching of the nicolaitans and santa claus or christmas...

You are correct in that the Deacon Nicholas, in reality, cannot be equated with "Santa Claus." That's what I explained in my post.

This man Nicolas cannot be attributed as one that began the movement called “the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.” Nicolas seems to have been a person of good reputation in the churches surrounding, and including Antioch. Then in time, the name of “Nicolas” was used by the people who were collaborating together to incorporate this false doctrine into the church by deception, passing it off as good by using Deacon Nicolas' good name. I suppose Nicolas was a good choice for them because Nicolas wasn't of Jewish heritage but converted to Judaism. The anti law people would call him a “Judaizer” today.

It cannot be that this proselyte Nicolas was originally labeled as “Santa Claus” (Saint Nicolas) by what he truly taught and represented, but the false doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (not necessarily a sect of individuals) carried this name to our present day extreme that eventually evolved into the jolly old man that centers around Christmas, coordinating this holiday with with pope Gregory's calendar which the entire world observes to this day.

Nevertheless it will be explained even further, as we unravel the truth about this false religion, as to how distortions of scripture are part of the doctrine of the Nicholaitanes. Christmas is not celebrated in Biblical history, for there is no record in scripture that says when Christ Jesus was actually born. It's all conjecture, and Baal's birthday is celebrated according to Pope Gregory's calendar (December 25th that is documented) that is far from the comparison with God's times and seasons.

The Doctrine of the Nicholaitanes habitually incorporates pagan practices into the Christian church. It's a relentless doctrine that Jesus hates. I made it clear that the influence of this doctrine used the good name of deacon Nicholas to systematically incorporate Baal's birthday into the Christian church.

 

[just-me]

The “doctrine of Balaam,” that endeavors to incorporate pagan practices into the churches, and pass them off as Christian doctrine and tradition, appears to this day to be enabled by the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.” It eventually will evolve into a doctrine that hates and despises the real truth by picking and choosing what pieces of scripture they will accept or avoid, labeling certain rejected scriptures as “void” or “abolished." They use the name of Jesus as the scapegoat, in the same way they used the good reputation of Nicolas. One good example is that Jesus crucified the law. What they are actually saying is that the Word of God killed itself for our sakes. That is an “oxymoron.” Moreoff than moreon. Pun intended.

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Matthew 6:24) Mammon is ANYTHING in which we might trust instead of God

Balaam taught the Midianites and their allies to “seduce” Israel from their faithfulness to God, by sending their daughters and wives to use their sexual charms on them, and to entice them to commit immorality and to partake of pagan festivities and idolatrous worship, combining paganism with the worship of God – something which God calls “abominable” and thoroughly detests! The blending of the truth of God with paganism and wicked pagan festivals and practices is an abhorrence to God. It is called religious “syncretism.” (Numbers 22:1-5)

The Nicolaitans, therefore, were the early Christian-pagan syncretists, the false teachers that crept into the church, who disguised themselves as followers of Christ, professing to be His ministers and servants, but who led the people astray. The church of Ephesus was able to identify this false doctrine because they had not denied the law of God. So one of the first tactics of the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” is to minister a doctrine that excludes these instructions of God, originally given to Israel at Mount Sinai, so it cannot be detected. That is why those who esteem the law as good for believers in Christ today are negatively labeled as “Judaizers.”

see this thread in the conspiracy corruption discussion forum

 

[just-me]

It is clear from the evidence that this heresy, which began as a small group, in the first century, mushroomed and became a strong, dominant CHURCH by the third and fourth centuries, and became the foundation of the Church of Rome and the papacy. It is described in Revelation 17 as a “woman sitting on a scarlet beast” with the name: “Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth” (Rev.17:3-5).

By the Middle Ages this church became the great persecuting church and was guilty of spilling massive amounts of the blood of the true saints and servants of God (Rev.17:6).

What was the main crime of this church? Spiritual fornication – or spiritual adultery! Combining pagan practices and doctrines with the Word of God, or replacing the teachings of God’s Word with corrupt, pagan deceptions and lies, straight from the bowels of Satan persuasion!

The Nicolaitanes may be taken to be a heretical sect, who retained pagan practices like idolatry [such as image worship, observing pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc.] and immorality contrary to the thought and the conduct required in Christian churches.”

“Tertullian, who influenced the founding of the Charismatic religion, reports the lust and luxury of the Nicolaitans, cites evidence from Revelation, and adds that there was another sort of Nicolaitans, a satanic sect, called the Gaian heresy, the worshipping of Mother Earth, which has reared its ugly head today.

see this post

Clement of Alexandria knows of followers of Nicolas, calling them “lascivious goats,” who perverted the Deacon's witness by saying that it was necessary to abuse the flesh. Clement undertakes to show that Nicolas (mentioned in Acts 6:1-6), as a faithful servant of God, and was a true ascetic (self-disciplined, abstaining from all forms of indulgence), and that the later, immoral Nicolaitans were not his followers, though they claimed him as their teacher . . . Later their name flourished as a designation for heretics.”

 

[BarlyGurl]

It is clear from the evidence that this heresy, which began as a small group, in the first century, mushroomed and became a strong, dominant CHURCH by the third and fourth centuries, and became the foundation of the Church of Rome and the papacy. It is described in Revelation 17 as a “woman sitting on a scarlet beast” with the name: “Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth” (Rev.17:3-5).

By the Middle Ages this church became the great persecuting church and was guilty of spilling massive amounts of the blood of the true saints and servants of God (Rev.17:6).

What was the main crime of this church? Spiritual fornication – or spiritual adultery! Combining pagan practices and doctrines with the Word of God, or replacing the teachings of God’s Word with corrupt, pagan deceptions and lies, straight from the bowels of Satan persuasion!

The Nicolaitanes may be taken to be a heretical sect, who retained pagan practices like idolatry [such as image worship, observing pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc.] and immorality contrary to the thought and the conduct required in Christian churches.”

“Tertullian, who influenced the founding of the Charismatic religion, reports the lust and luxury of the Nicolaitans, cites evidence from Revelation, and adds that there was another sort of Nicolaitans, a satanic sect, called the Gaian heresy, the worshipping of Mother Earth, which has reared its ugly head today.

see this post

Clement of Alexandria knows of followers of Nicolas, calling them “lascivious goats,” who perverted the Deacon's witness by saying that it was necessary to abuse the flesh. Clement undertakes to show that Nicolas (mentioned in Acts 6:1-6), as a faithful servant of God, and was a true ascetic (self-disciplined, abstaining from all forms of indulgence), and that the later, immoral Nicolaitans were not his followers, though they claimed him as their teacher . . . Later their name flourished as a designation for heretics.”

Perhaps instead of expounding on the issue of the prophesied truth of spiritual harlotry....maybe exposing and defining those practices of today? Help people distinguish between what GOD says and Mans traditions?

 

[just-me]

Perhaps instead of expounding on the issue of the prophesied truth of spiritual harlotry....maybe exposing and defining those practices of today? Help people distinguish between what GOD says and Mans traditions?

We are getting to that point. It is also true that what we have exposed can be seen in the churches these days. We figure that people have the opportunity to compare their reality with what is currently happening in their religious environment.

It is true that man's traditions have replaced what God has ordained, with Easter, and that Christmas is a pagan deity's birth day. (Molech, Baal, Nimrod) The truth of God's word includes God's creation (that He wants us to remember and enjoy) in the fruit of the harvest. This also has been totally neglected, along with holy days causing God's true children to remember how He has cared for His own in the past, the present, we, having hope for tomorrow. We are "saved by hope." (Romans 8:24)

These are just a few things that show a clear difference between what God has ordained, and how they (the doctrine of the nicolaitanes) have distorted the truth by incorporating pagan practices that have replaced Biblical truth. Thanks

 

[just-me]

“Shenanigans” is an activity that began to escalate around the time of WW1. It is a movement of secret or dishonest activity or maneuvering. One could call the activity of the “Bilderbergers” (originating in England) a type of “Shenanigans.” They financed both sides during WW1, and are secretive to this very day. Both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton attended one of their secret meetings before the presidential election in 2008. Shortly after, Hillary dropped out of the race, and Barack Obama was elected president of the United States. It is easy to deceive people these days. Why? For the most part, religious teachings avoid the law, and the populous is systematically ushered into ignorance by the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes”.This renders the influence of the church to the surrounding community ineffective and unable to identify deception unlike they who were in the church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:6.

The Obama-Bilderberg Connection

Christians today are painted with the same brush-stroke, as being corrupt, immoral, and evil, because of “shenanigans” and wicked works of these “Nicolaitans,” but they are false Christians, false teachers who claim to represent Messiah and His truth.

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways (having a harmful effect, especially in a gradual or subtle way); by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.” (II Peter 2:1-2).

Peter goes on, and says of them, “Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.” with a brutish fruit “speak evil of the things that they understand not; spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;”. . . having “an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;” (II Peter 2:10 and 12-15)

 

[BarlyGurl]

Seems like ardent believers should then pray for the "swift destruction" of these false teachers... "whoever they are" so as to Minimize the damage and Glorify the truth of God's word?

 

[just-me]

Seems like ardent believers should then pray for the "swift destruction" of these false teachers... "whoever they are" so as to Minimize the damage and Glorify the truth of God's word?

I agree!!
They are very hard, if not impossible to identify false pagan practices if we do not attribute to God's instructions in the law of the Pentateuch. Many preach against the law so this cannot be identified. The first thing that needs to be done it to reject the teaching that Jesus Christ has abolished the law. That's the start. Jesus quoted Deuteronomy to Satan, so we know the law has great power to resist the Adversary.

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" James 4:7

 

[convallaria]

It's worse than that., Nico: to conquer. Laitan:laity. Clerical/laity. One 'lording it over His heritage'.

Diotrephes lifted himself self up above the brethren.

Matt.20 Jesus told His own not to follow the world's type of exalted authority. He hates it. The 'church' loves it.

'My people perish for a lack of knowledge'.

YEP! You found that out too huh?

 

[just-me]

It's worse than that., Nico: to conquer. Laitan:laity. Clerical/laity. One 'lording it over His heritage'.

Diotrephes lifted himself self up above the brethren.

Matt.20 Jesus told His own not to follow the world's type of exalted authority. He hates it. The 'church' loves it.

'My people perish for a lack of knowledge'.

YEP! You found that out too huh?

Beware of doctrines that preach and teach that some parts of God's word has been made void, have been abolished, or have vanished away. They are trying to prohibit knowledge so we cannot detect false pagan doctrine that continues to creep into the church.

They are very hard, if not impossible to identify false pagan practices if we do not attribute (ascribe) to God's instructions in the law of the Pentateuch. Many preach against the law so this cannot be identified. The first thing that needs to be done is to reject the teaching that Jesus Christ has abolished the law. That's the start. Jesus quoted Deuteronomy to Satan, so we know the law has great power to resist the Adversary.

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" James 4:7

 

[convallaria]

It is documented by others, that the "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is the systematic removal of the law of God and distortion of scripture to allow Satan to sit in the midst of the congregation, and propagate His agenda instead of God's.

*******

So within the ranks of the congregation, there are those who underhandedly distort and try to make void certain parts of God's word in order to deceive the church, and compel the masses to compromise the truth with falsehood.

What, like Paul?

Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


A long time ago I wanted to find out about Nicolaitanism, because Jesus hates it, and I didn't want to do it unwittingly.

As someone said earlier it means "power over the laity" which means that the distinction between clergy and laity, and power of one over the other, is not allowed in the true church of God.

This is not only seen in catholicism down the ages, but also in the denominations, wherever false authority in the churches is seen to exercise dominion over the children of God, as Jesus showed:

Luke 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

It needs to be said that not all authority is false authority. There is authority in the church but it is demonstrated by servanthood, rather than lordship. That servanthood requires the preaching and teaching of truth of the word of God for the benefit of the children of God, i.e., the church. There can be no authority without the Spirit of God, so folks need to make sure they attend a gathering where at least the leaders are Spirit filled. That way they will be shepherded....and not "fleeced" ...

 

[just-me]

What, like Paul?

Yes, like Paul. Acts 24:14 Good post! Thank you. Right you are.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

Colossians 2:14

There are no words that God has spoken that are against His own true children. It's the ordinances of the doctrines of man.

 

[Elin]

“But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: (Acts 6:4-5)

This man Nicolas cannot be attributed as one that began the movement called “the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.” Nicolas seems to have been a person of good reputation in the churches surrounding, and including Antioch. Then in time, the name of “Nicolas” was used by the people who were collaborating together to incorporate this false doctrine into the church by deception, passing it off as good by using Deacon Nicolas' good name. I suppose Nicolas was a good choice for them because Nicolas wasn't of Jewish heritage but converted to Judaism. The anti law people would call him a “Judaizer” today.

It cannot be that this proselyte Nicolas was originally labeled as “Santa Claus” (Saint Nicolas) by what he truly taught and represented, but the false doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (not necessarily a sect of individuals) carried this name to our present day extreme

Unadulterated falsehood existing in your own mind, with absolutely no proof of any "present day extreme" of the paganism and sexual immorality of Christianity.

This is pure concoction of the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult which seeks to unseat the NT in favor of the OT.

that eventually evolved into the jolly old man that centers around Christmas, coordinating this holiday with with pope Gregory's calendar which the entire world observes to this day.

Baloney. . .absolutely no basis for this corrupt conjecture.

Not even remotely connected to celebration of the Lord's birth.

 

[LT]

All the historical accounts of the "teachings of the Nicolaitans" point to laciviousness.
None of them point to the Judaizers.

Both are errors.
Just because this one portion of Scripture points out the heresies of those who preach Grace as a license to sin,
does not mean that it corroborates the teachings of those who would place themselves back under the Old Covenant.

Why did this discussion devolve into a debate over the purpose of the Law in the NT Church?