If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

[WoundedWarrior]

I do not make excuses at all as there is a big difference in reproving and rebuking and being judgmental on others.

Reproving and rebuking others comes from using the scriptures to show them their improper ways and to walk properly.

Judging means you just state things in a condemning way with no scripture to back it up, and no scripture used for exhorting and edifying afterwards.


I 95% of the time use scripture in my responses toward others, and the ones I get in return I may see scripture 10% of the time. Therefore what I say about knowing the difference between judging and reproving or rebuking stands true.

You misunderstand scripture. You misuse scripture.
Reproving is something you do, in love - you take the person aside, and privately discuss.

What you two do is called "baiting" - you post a thread with the plan of attacking the "other" team. Spiritual matters are not as simple as a two-sided coin -- as for your OSAS vs. Sinless Perfection game, early on you guys failed to realize a few things: 1. It's not simply one or the other; there are MANY possible interpretations. 2. Just because you think your understanding of Sin and Salvation is correct, does not give you the right (or permission) to "bait" people into a rebuking session. This seems to be your goal - and it is one of the main reasons you are failing; it's a flawed goal. 3. We (Saved) are One in Christ.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

No, God's Word is written by God thru men.

2 Peter 1:20-21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Also, check out my many points here in Scripture on the topic of Sola Scriptura, too.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100040-biblical-defense-sola-scriptura.html

You missed the important part, which was in bold: God IS The Word. (John 1)

 

[WoundedWarrior]

I do not make excuses at all as there is a big difference in reproving and rebuking and being judgmental on others.

Reproving and rebuking others comes from using the scriptures to show them their improper ways and to walk properly.

Judging means you just state things in a condemning way with no scripture to back it up, and no scripture used for exhorting and edifying afterwards.


I 95% of the time use scripture in my responses toward others, and the ones I get in return I may see scripture 10% of the time. Therefore what I say about knowing the difference between judging and reproving or rebuking stands true.

Flawed argument.

 

[Jason0047]

You misunderstand scripture. You misuse scripture.
Reproving is something you do, in love - you take the person aside, and privately discuss.

What you two do is called "baiting" - you post a thread with the plan of attacking the "other" team. Spiritual matters are not as simple as a two-sided coin -- as for your OSAS vs. Sinless Perfection game, early on you guys failed to realize a few things: 1. It's not simply one or the other; there are MANY possible interpretations. 2. Just because you think your understanding of Sin and Salvation is correct, does not give you the right (or permission) to "bait" people into a rebuking session. This seems to be your goal - and it is one of the main reasons you are failing; it's a flawed goal. 3. We (Saved) are One in Christ.

Paul said to the Galatians they were foolish. So I disagree. Sometimes rebuke can sound like it is harsh but it is done in love. Those who want to hold onto a sin and still be saved doctrine are naturally going to find rebuke or correction of such evil as being distasteful because it exposes the darkness of their doctrine. For nobody likes being told when they are doing bad or approving of something evil. But evil or sin has a way of blinding people whereby they see their own sense of righteousness while ignoring the evil.

 

[Jason0047]

You missed the important part, which was in bold: God IS The Word. (John 1)

God is Spirit and God is a person and God is triune (i.e. The Lord our God is one God who exists in three persons: i.e. the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost). God has always existed eternally as Spirit and as a person and in being one God who is triune.

God is not literal words on a page.

Yes, there are 3 major Words spoken about within Scripture that are connected to one another. There is the:

(1) Living Word of God (Jesus),
(2) Spoken Word of God (Either from God or His people),
(3) Written Word of God (Scripture).

But Jesus is not actually made up of physical words of somekind somewhere. The Written Word and the Spoken Word come from the Living Word. The "Word" is just one of the many names or title for the Son of God or Jesus.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

I'm done. I pray that Your Holy Will be done Lord. I pray that the scales fall from Jason and Kenneth's eyes. I pray that I may have more patience with people who hear without listening. I pray that God guides my responses to others. I pray that somehow, through all of this, we are all brought closer to you, Lord. In Jesus. Amen.

 

[Budman]

I'm done. I pray that Your Holy Will be done Lord. I pray that the scales fall from Jason and Kenneth's eyes. I pray that I may have more patience with people who hear without listening. I pray that God guides my responses to others. I pray that somehow, through all of this, we are all brought closer to you, Lord. In Jesus. Amen.

AMEN and AMEN!

 

[WoundedWarrior]

God is not literal words on a page... But Jesus is not actually made up of physical words of somekind somewhere.

Really? And I suppose there is no pot 'o gold at the end of a rainbow either -- c'mon man, stop talking to people like we're in Kindergarten or something -- I'm tired of your garbage.

[h=1]John 1English Standard Version (ESV)[/h][h=3]The Word Became Flesh[/h]1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as awitness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,[b] and his own people[c] did not receive him.12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.[d] 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God,[e] who is at the Father's side,[f] he has made him known.

 

[notuptome]

No, God's Word is written by God thru men.

2 Peter 1:20-21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Also, check out my many points here in Scripture on the topic of Sola Scriptura, too.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100040-biblical-defense-sola-scriptura.html

So John chapter one is missing from your bible? The Word of God made flesh?
John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 ¶ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

I'm done. I pray that Your Holy Will be done Lord. I pray that the scales fall from Jason and Kenneth's eyes. I pray that I may have more patience with people who hear without listening. I pray that God guides my responses to others. I pray that somehow, through all of this, we are all brought closer to you, Lord. In Jesus. Amen.

One of the fruits of the Spirit is patience (or being long suffering towards others). Another fruit of the Spirit is peace and not anger, too.

 

[Jason0047]

So John chapter one is missing from your bible? The Word of God made flesh?
John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 ¶ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The .... LIVING.... Word of God (or the Word of Life).

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us" (1 John 2:1-2).

I mean, think about how silly that sounds. Was Jesus literal words in existence somewhere before the Incarnation? What of the Trinity? Does not the Trinity exist eternally? How can Jesus be literal words and yet also retain His status amongst the Trinity before the Incarnation?

 

[Jason0047]

Really? And I suppose there is no pot 'o gold at the end of a rainbow either -- c'mon man, stop talking to people like we're in Kindergarten or something -- I'm tired of your garbage.

John 1English Standard Version (ESV)

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as awitness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,[b] and his own people[c] did not receive him.12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.[d] 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God,[e] who is at the Father's side,[f] he has made him known.

What of the Trinity? Did the Trinity not exist when Jesus was literal words somewhere before the Incarnation?

 

[WoundedWarrior]

One of the fruits of the Spirit is patience (or being long suffering towards others). Another fruit of the Spirit is peace and not anger, too.

No argument here. Just wish you would heed your own words.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

I mean, think about how silly that sounds. Was Jesus literal words in existence somewhere before the Incarnation? What of the Trinity? Does not the Trinity exist eternally? How can Jesus be literal words and yet also retain His status amongst the Trinity before the Incarnation?

Is that what you mean? Do you mean to say that God is silly? Do you mean to say that stories of the Bible which "sound silly" are false? Noah + Ark, Jonah + Whale, people being raised from the dead, etc.

 

[Jason0047]

No argument here. Just wish you would heed your own words.

I would be more than happy to discuss any problems or words you think I said wrongfully if you provide Post #'s. I have apologized when I have said things wrongfully before or when I misunderstood someone. I was even man enough to admit I was wrong an interpretation of a certain verse in Scripture that I used to use once to refute OSAS. God helped me to see this and not man.

 

[Jason0047]

Is that what you mean? Do you mean to say that God is silly? Do you mean to say that stories of the Bible which "sound silly" are false? Noah + Ark, Jonah + Whale, people being raised from the dead, etc.

No. I am saying folks interpretation is silly. It doesn't make sense in light of God existing eternally as a Trinity.

 

[shotgunner]

Paul said to the Galatians they were foolish. So I disagree. Sometimes rebuke can sound like it is harsh but it is done in love. Those who want to hold onto a sin and still be saved doctrine are naturally going to find rebuke or correction of such evil as being distasteful because it exposes the darkness of their doctrine. For nobody likes being told when they are doing bad or approving of something evil. But evil or sin has a way of blinding people whereby they see their own sense of righteousness while ignoring the evil.

The part I made bold is very important. Anyone looking at themselves as righteous because of their own obedience depends on their ability rather than on the sacrifice of Jesus. If we could be righteous by our obedience, then Jesus died in vain.

I do teach grace but I tell people this. If you are looking to grace as a way to sin and get away with it, then you need to be born again. Born again people have had their hearts changed to want to be obedient to Jesus. Grace is not a free pass to sin, it's actually a way out of sin.

You see, a person looking to their performance as a way to righteousness is only and can only operate in the flesh. By putting their attention on sin and how to rid themselves of it, they have taken their eyes off the solution and remedy for sin.

The way to be free from sin is to know exactly who you have now become because of the new birth. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. A man who is convinced that he is a new creation, where all things are of God, convinced that he is righteous because of the sacrifice of Jesus, will act according to his belief. The best way to be free from sin is to be so caught up in Jesus and what he has done for you that you don't give any place to the flesh that constantly opposes the Spirit.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

What of the Trinity? Did the Trinity not exist when Jesus was literal words somewhere before the Incarnation?

The Trinity is a human understanding (or explanation) of our God.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Trinity = 1. God (the Father) + 2. Jesus (the Son) + 3. Holy Spirit (the Helper)
[h=3]John 14:26 ESV [/h]But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.


Surely you already understand this, and so I do not understand your purpose or point.

 

[Jason0047]

The part I made bold is very important. Anyone looking at themselves as righteous because of their own obedience depends on their ability rather than on the sacrifice of Jesus. If we could be righteous by our obedience, then Jesus died in vain.

I do teach grace but I tell people this. If you are looking to grace as a way to sin and get away with it, then you need to be born again. Born again people have had their hearts changed to want to be obedient to Jesus. Grace is not a free pass to sin, it's actually a way out of sin.

You see, a person looking to their performance as a way to righteousness is only and can only operate in the flesh. By putting their attention on sin and how to rid themselves of it, they have taken their eyes off the solution and remedy for sin.

The way to be free from sin is to know exactly who you have now become because of the new birth. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. A man who is convinced that he is a new creation, where all things are of God, convinced that he is righteous because of the sacrifice of Jesus, will act according to his belief. The best way to be free from sin is to be so caught up in Jesus and what he has done for you that you don't give any place to the flesh that constantly opposes the Spirit.

I agree for the most part with what you have written here. I believe God does the "good work" in the believer. I believe "good fruit" will be the result of having Jesus living in you. No fruit... no God living in you. No God.... meaning.... no salvation. The problem I have is people thinking they can sin and yet also be saved on some level. I am not even talking about habitual sin here. It only takes one serious sin (that a believer refusees to confess) for them to fall from God's grace. It happened to Adam and Eve and it can happen to the beleiver today, too. For Paul says we are not to know our ownselves, but we are to examine whether or not Christ be in us or not, unless we be reprobate.

But what I do not agree with is that believers cannot fall away, though. For who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 6:15? Would it help an unbeliever to forgive people if they have not accepted Christ?

 

[WoundedWarrior]

I would be more than happy to discuss any problems or words you think I said wrongfully if you provide Post #'s. I have apologized when I have said things wrongfully before or when I misunderstood someone. I was even man enough to admit I was wrong an interpretation of a certain verse in Scripture that I used to use once to refute OSAS. God helped me to see this and not man.

I have already provided a collection of words that you have said which I find offensive. I have posted a link to this collection twice today - this collection has now been presented to you on three separate occasions.

If God helped you see your misunderstandings, what makes you think that it is your place (and not God's) to correct others? It is my opinion (which is shared by many others) that you are attempting to correct people who are not misguided.