Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Bowman]

Re: Observe and learn...

You didn't carry it far enough. It is NOT the death that does the binding. Heb 2:14 is the declaration of Christ's Incarnation, He needed to become like us, have a mortal human nature so that He could die. Having died, which is Satan's power can only be bound IF CHRIST DEFEATS DEATH. THE ONLY WAY TO DEFEAT DEATH IS TO HAVE LIFE. CHRIST AROSE FROM THE DEAD. That confirms the binding of Satan. Death is NO longer a power He controls. He no longer has dominion over man or this world.

If Christ simply died, it would do nothing except to guarantee that Satan is still in control and has the power of death. You missed the whole meaning of the Incarnation and why it was necessary. You missed the central meaning of Christ's Atonement.

Your source also misses the whole meaning of why Christ needed to be Incarnated and to die and be raised to life. Christ did not defeat death by dying, but died so that He could raise our natures to life, thus defeating death.

No.

You are attempting to blend two separate events as if they were one.

We are dealing with the first event; the death of Jesus upon the cross, which scripture informs the reader that at this moment Satan was rendered impotent – i.e. he was bound at Jesus’ death.

This is the plain reading in English.

This is what Greek grammar states.

This is what the lexicons state.

This is the first salient point – and you cannot get past it.

You offer nothing but your unreferenced opinion....no scriptural exegesis…no Greek reference….no lexical reference….absolutely nothing.

Zero.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Observe and learn...

No.

You are attempting to blend two separate events as if they were one.

We are dealing with the first event; the death of Jesus upon the cross, which scripture informs the reader that at this moment Satan was rendered impotent – i.e. he was bound at Jesus’ death.

This is the plain reading in English.

This is what Greek grammar states.

This is what the lexicons state.

This is the first salient point – and you cannot get past it.

You offer nothing but your unreferenced opinion....no scriptural exegesis…no Greek reference….no lexical reference….absolutely nothing.

Zero.

They cannot be separated. The death of Christ is meaningless without the resurrection. If death is the ONLY event that concerns you, then death itself will never be defeated by Christ. Satan would never be bound if Christ did nor rise from the dead. This shows the same disconnect so many sola scripturist have in trying to explain what scripture has always meant. They create little boxes and put whole theories or doctrines into them, and assume they are finite in themselves and have no connection with other parts of scripture.

Christ came to defeat death. Begins in Genesis and is clearly explained in the Gospels and by Paul. Never once is death ever stated as an end in itself as a victory of Christ. Your view is illogical considering what scripture states. Christ did not give life by dying, but gave life by and through His resurrection from death. It is life that defeats death, not death itself. As long as Christ remained dead, Satan remains the victor and will never be bound. Life, the resurrection of Christ is what gives life and defeats death. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22, Heb 2:14-17, Heb 2:9, II Tim 1:10, all state Christ came to defeat Satan and death, not join with him in death.
If you had stated that Christ was binding Satan through His death, would be much closer. But it is the resurrection that confirms that binding. Without the resurrection, Christ cannot bind Satan, He becomes a victim.

It is as if you think the process of binding someone without tying the knot constitutes binding. The knot is the resurrection. It is probably why so many today think the resurrection was not really necessary. That is was ONLY a sign of Christ's divinity. After all the sacrifice for sin does not require a resurrection.

As to support, just check 2000 years of history that has supported the Incarnation of Christ with His resurrection as the supreme mark of His victory over death. The view was assaulted by false teachers through 3 Ecumenical Councils but were all declared heresy. It happens to be historical Christianity with which you are disagreeing,

 

[passing_through]

If no one has changed their view on "Is the Devil bound right now", I would like to see this thread locked.

we are beating a dead horse.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Observe and learn...

They cannot be separated. The death of Christ is meaningless without the resurrection. If death is the ONLY event that concerns you, then death itself will never be defeated by Christ. Satan would never be bound if Christ did nor rise from the dead. This shows the same disconnect so many sola scripturist have in trying to explain what scripture has always meant. They create little boxes and put whole theories or doctrines into them, and assume they are finite in themselves and have no connection with other parts of scripture.

Christ came to defeat death. Begins in Genesis and is clearly explained in the Gospels and by Paul. Never once is death ever stated as an end in itself as a victory of Christ. Your view is illogical considering what scripture states. Christ did not give life by dying, but gave life by and through His resurrection from death. It is life that defeats death, not death itself. As long as Christ remained dead, Satan remains the victor and will never be bound. Life, the resurrection of Christ is what gives life and defeats death. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22, Heb 2:14-17, Heb 2:9, II Tim 1:10, all state Christ came to defeat Satan and death, not join with him in death.
If you had stated that Christ was binding Satan through His death, would be much closer. But it is the resurrection that confirms that binding. Without the resurrection, Christ cannot bind Satan, He becomes a victim.

It is as if you think the process of binding someone without tying the knot constitutes binding. The knot is the resurrection. It is probably why so many today think the resurrection was not really necessary. That is was ONLY a sign of Christ's divinity. After all the sacrifice for sin does not require a resurrection.

As to support, just check 2000 years of history that has supported the Incarnation of Christ with His resurrection as the supreme mark of His victory over death. The view was assaulted by false teachers through 3 Ecumenical Councils but were all declared heresy. It happens to be historical Christianity with which you are disagreeing,

We are not discussing Jesus’ incarnation.

We are not discussing Jesus Resurrection.

We are discussing when Satan was bound.

As I already amply demonstrated, Satan is bound at the Cross….NOT at the incarnation…NOT at the Resurrection.

You need to study scripture instead of parroting decade’s worth of dogma…

 

[Bowman]

If no one has changed their view on "Is the Devil bound right now", I would like to see this thread locked.

we are beating a dead horse.

No.

We are in discussion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Observe and learn...

We are not discussing Jesus’ incarnation.

We are not discussing Jesus Resurrection.

We are discussing when Satan was bound.

As I already amply demonstrated, Satan is bound at the Cross….NOT at the incarnation…NOT at the Resurrection.

You need to study scripture instead of parroting decade’s worth of dogma…

he was bound at neither, When he is bound, he is unable to deceive the nations. yet we see him deceiving nations every day, His latest incarnation is a thing called islam. He will not be bound until the Lord returns.

 

[passing_through]

No.

We are in discussion.

At a point it ceases to have any value to ministry and starts to just be a verbal fight.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Observe and learn...

he was bound at neither, When he is bound, he is unable to deceive the nations. yet we see him deceiving nations every day, His latest incarnation is a thing called islam. He will not be bound until the Lord returns.

Satan is presently bound.....he was bound at the cross.

His demons are not bound, and they number 200,000,000....so we should expect deception in the world today.

The Second Death is a separate event from the devil's binding....the Second Death occurs at the end of time.

 

[Bowman]

At a point it ceases to have any value to ministry and starts to just be a verbal fight.

Feel free to leave, then...its not as if you are contributing in the first place...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Observe and learn...

Satan is presently bound.....he was bound at the cross.

His demons are not bound, and they number 200,000,000....so we should expect deception in the world today.

The Second Death is a separate event from the devil's binding....the Second Death occurs at the end of time.

No he was not bound, If he was bound, the demons would have no power. because they would be leaderless. Which is why scripture says when he is bound, the nations or no longer deceived.

The nations are deceived, thus he is not bound..

the second death has nothing to do wiht satans binding. so not even sure why you went there.

 

[dcontroversal]

Re: Observe and learn...

No he was not bound, If he was bound, the demons would have no power. because they would be leaderless. Which is why scripture says when he is bound, the nations or no longer deceived.

The nations are deceived, thus he is not bound..

the second death has nothing to do wiht satans binding. so not even sure why you went there.

Because he cannot accept all of the scripture posted by CC members that prove that Satan is not bound until the 1000 year reign of Christ on the throne as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and that he presently is not bound and is influencing and devouring as many as he can....he cannot humble himself and admit that he has been proven wrong....

 

[Bowman]

Re: Observe and learn...

No he was not bound, If he was bound, the demons would have no power. because they would be leaderless. Which is why scripture says when he is bound, the nations or no longer deceived.

The nations are deceived, thus he is not bound..

Scripture...?

the second death has nothing to do wiht satans binding. so not even sure why you went there.

That's what I said.

Are you reading my posts before responding...?

 

[Bowman]

Re: Observe and learn...

Because he cannot accept all of the scripture posted by CC members that prove that Satan is not bound until the 1000 year reign of Christ on the throne as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and that he presently is not bound and is influencing and devouring as many as he can....he cannot humble himself and admit that he has been proven wrong....

Most of you fail to even post scripture for your assertions in the first place.

You assert without support.

If you are going to assert - then show why - as mentioned in the OP...

 

[Cassian]

Re: Observe and learn...

Bouman,

We are not discussing Jesus’ incarnation.

We are not discussing Jesus Resurrection.

We are discussing when Satan was bound.

As I already amply demonstrated, Satan is bound at the Cross….NOT at the incarnation…NOT at the Resurrection.

You need to study scripture instead of parroting decade’s worth of dogma…

Scripture is quite clear and is solidly in line with what I have been saying.

Now you even make it worse. You want to separate the Incarnation aside as if some mere human being who died can actually bind Satan. You cannot separate the parts and think you can arrive at the end result. They are all one and the same.

You have not demonstrated anything as yet, except confirm your personal opinion and have separated all the parts into neat little boxes that have no meaning whatsoever as parts.
By the way, the Gospel Truth is 2000 years old, not just mere decades. Show that your view was actually held by the early Church.


Let me ask you based on your view. What would be the purpose of Christ binding Satan in hades? How would that help us as human beings being saved? What effect would that binding have?

 

[Bowman]

Re: Observe and learn...

Bouman,

Scripture is quite clear and is solidly in line with what I have been saying.

Now you even make it worse. You want to separate the Incarnation aside as if some mere human being who died can actually bind Satan. You cannot separate the parts and think you can arrive at the end result. They are all one and the same.

You have not demonstrated anything as yet, except confirm your personal opinion and have separated all the parts into neat little boxes that have no meaning whatsoever as parts.
By the way, the Gospel Truth is 2000 years old, not just mere decades. Show that your view was actually held by the early Church.

One has to wonder if you have ever bothered to study the original languages, at all.

Observe your ignorance...


Heb 1.1

πολυμερως και πολυτροπως παλαι ο θεος λαλησας τοις πατρασιν εν τοις προφηταις επ εσχατου των ημερων τουτων ελαλησεν ημιν εν υιω

POLYMERŌS kai POLYTROPŌS palai ho theos lalēsas tois patrasin en tois prophētais

By many portions and in various forms, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets;





Heb 1.1 immediately informs the reader that the One God of the OT has always revealed Himself ‘by many portions’ (polymeros) and ‘in various forms’ (polytropos).


These two Greek terms are only used this one time/ea in the entirety of the Holy Bible, and lexically are defined as ‘One of the constituent parts of a whole; in a context where the whole and its parts are distinguished.’


A clear signal of the ONE Triune Creator God of the Universe.

How is it that you don't even understand The Trinity?

 

[Bowman]

Re: Observe and learn...

Let me ask you based on your view. What would be the purpose of Christ binding Satan in hades? How would that help us as human beings being saved? What effect would that binding have?

The purpose for Jesus’ binding of Satan in Heb 2.14 is found in the juxtaposed verse following it…



Heb 2.15

και απαλλαξη τουτους οσοι φοβω θανατου δια παντος του ζην ενοχοι ησαν δουλειας

Kai apallaxē toutous hosoi phobō thanatou dia pantos tou zēn enochoi ēsan douleias

and might set these free, as many as by fear of deathwere subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live.


The key word here is ‘apallaxē’, which means ‘to set free’.

Satan is bound at the Cross so that we now have freedom and time to come to Jesus.

This time period is the 1,000 years, 1260 days, times, time and ½ time already discussed.


To reinforce that the binding is to separate the devil from the people, is made manifest by reviewing the only other two Greek inflections of the word, as thus…

For as you go with your adversary to a judge, give pains in the way to be set free from him, that he not drag you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. (Luke 12.58)

Luke is quite clear that we need to be set free from the adversary lest we be thrown into prison.

Sound familiar?



Here’s how the other inflection is used in the NT…

so as even handkerchiefs or aprons from his skin to be brought onto those sick, and the diseases to be released from them, and the evil spirits to go out from them. But certain from the strolling Jews, exorcists, undertook to name the name of the Lord Jesus over those having evil spirits, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches. (Acts 19.12 -13)

Again…the text discusses being set free from evil.

How can you miss it...?!

 

[Cassian]

Re: Observe and learn...

One has to wonder if you have ever bothered to study the original languages, at all.

Observe your ignorance...


Heb 1.1

πολυμερως και πολυτροπως παλαι ο θεος λαλησας τοις πατρασιν εν τοις προφηταις επ εσχατου των ημερων τουτων ελαλησεν ημιν εν υιω

POLYMERŌS kai POLYTROPŌS palai ho theos lalēsas tois patrasin en tois prophētais

By many portions and in various forms, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets;





Heb 1.1 immediately informs the reader that the One God of the OT has always revealed Himself ‘by many portions’ (polymeros) and ‘in various forms’ (polytropos).


These two Greek terms are only used this one time/ea in the entirety of the Holy Bible, and lexically are defined as ‘One of the constituent parts of a whole; in a context where the whole and its parts are distinguished.’


A clear signal of the ONE Triune Creator God of the Universe.

How is it that you don't even understand The Trinity?

So far you have not shown that I am incorrect. You rely upon your own interpretation, then a protestant lexicon that also does not understand theology. You seem to forget that the early Church spoke Greek. They taught in Greek, all of the Apostles spoke and wrote Greek. The Church was exclusively Greek until the fall of Rome when Latin was reintroduced to the learned class only in Rome. Even at that, Greek still remained the predominate language until the Slavs enter in the 10th century,. One would think that all those Greek people and scholars would have come to your conclusion but yet they did not.

You are really reaching when you begin to equate the Trinity with the Incarnation.

I notice that nothing is substantive in your last post. You did not even attempt to show just how in your theological perspective that the simple death of Christ could bind Satan and then what effect that would have on our salvation.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Observe and learn...

Bouman,

The key word here is ‘apallaxē’, which means ‘to set free’.
Satan is bound at the Cross so that we now have freedom and time to come to Jesus.
This time period is the 1,000 years, 1260 days, times, time and ½ time already discussed.

To reinforce that the binding is to separate the devil from the people, is made manifest by reviewing the only other two Greek inflections of the word, as thus…

theologically, can you explain just how man is set free simply by binding Satan as you sescribe it. Nothing in scripture says anything about separating Satan from the people.

Luke is quite clear that we need to be set free from the adversary lest we be thrown into prison.

And just how are you freed from Satan by your interpretation? Scripture never states that we are free from Satan. It simply states Christ came to destroy Satan and DEATH, WHICH IS THE POWER OF SATAN. You should read Heb 2:14-17 without your blinders on. There is a reason why Christ was Incarnated, and why He rose again.

Your basic premise as to why Christ came is completely missed by you. Christ did not come to eliminate evil. He did not come to get rid of Satan in the present time. He did not even come to eliminate Satan from tempting you. So, just how are you free and free from what in your view?
The binding of Satan has nothing to do with evil or incapacitating Satan. He is definitely alive and well and will operate in this world until Christ comes again.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Observe and learn...

So far you have not shown that I am incorrect. You rely upon your own interpretation, then a protestant lexicon that also does not understand theology. You seem to forget that the early Church spoke Greek. They taught in Greek, all of the Apostles spoke and wrote Greek. The Church was exclusively Greek until the fall of Rome when Latin was reintroduced to the learned class only in Rome. Even at that, Greek still remained the predominate language until the Slavs enter in the 10th century,. One would think that all those Greek people and scholars would have come to your conclusion but yet they did not.

Its painfully obvious by now that you are completely ignorant of Biblical Greek.

You don't even attempt a rebuttal....how would you even begin, right?

Further, lexicography is provided by all denominations....you would have already been cognizant of this had you even bothered to look.

You rely upon your priest for scriptural interpretation.

You are really reaching when you begin to equate the Trinity with the Incarnation.

I didn't...but you just did.

I notice that nothing is substantive in your last post. You did not even attempt to show just how in your theological perspective that the simple death of Christ could bind Satan and then what effect that would have on our salvation.

Show us...

 

[Cassian]

Re: Observe and learn...

Its painfully obvious by now that you are completely ignorant of Biblical Greek.

You don't even attempt a rebuttal....how would you even begin, right?

Further, lexicography is provided by all denominations....you would have already been cognizant of this had you even bothered to look.

You rely upon your priest for scriptural interpretation.






I didn't...but you just did.







Show us...

I already did. However, you have simply made assertions without explaining just how the binding of Satan is accomplished simply by Christ's death. You apparently cannot show just how it would effect our salvation. It isn't about Greek meaning. It is about scriptural meaning theologically. We have had 2000 years of Greek scholars and not a single one came up with your theory or idea. I'm not sure you can give any credence to your idea outside of your personal interpretation. Hardly scriptural.
You sound like the typical pseudo-theologian trying to develop yet another innovative idea from scripture.

So, I await your theological explanations of your interpretation.