If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

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shotgunner

Guest
I think people should study and know the Bible in plain English inside and out before they ever consider tackling Greek. For the English does not say something different than what the Greek says. For the problem I see is that someone can look at what Strong and his buddies created (i.e. the Strong's Concordance) and then they can choose their own definition they prefer to make their own theology or belief. In other words, it is a choose your own interpretation adventure Bible. Let's make the Bible say what we want it to say. For nobody today has ever grown up speaking or writing Biblical Greek like Paul and the others had. Did not Jesus favor the poor and the simple? Did not Jesus say beward of the Scribes (i.e. those who tranSCRIBED the Law)? Granted, there is nothing wrong with studying the Greek and looking up a word on occasion; But the problem I see is that many folks today just flat out ignoring what the Bible says in English in favor of of a word they CHOSE in the Greek, though. For did you repent hearing the Greek? My guess is that was probably not the case.

In other words, we are not on the same playing field when you CHOOSE a defintion of your own CHOICE for a Greek word. There is no common ground to communicate upon then. The only way is if we communicate in a language that you cannot twist so easily or mess around with so as to make a passage say what you want it to say.
There is no choice to be made. The Greek isn't offering a separate and different meaning. It's simply giving the true meaning. It's then your choice which English words to use to convey the proper meaning.The reason God used the Greek is because it is a much more precise language than the English.

It seems to me however that since you can't refute the Greek you are simply refusing to acknowledge it.
 
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Yeh, someone you can have a laugh with and someone who is down to earth and doesn't take everything so seriously ...yeh I get it
Amen to that and I know you understand..... :)
 
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Jason if you are going to give an example please give a good comparison, as your way of thinking is absurd.
You are not an employer, you are just another person here on CC.
Dude is a relaxed way of saying MATE or FRIEND or BUDDY.
Your perception on words seems to be different to 99% of people here on CC which is why you find it so difficult to understand what other people are saying because you seem to think people are attacking you.
If you are strong in Christ then I suggest you start realising that people are not out to get you.
Yeah no doubt...I can see a new conspiracy thread on the whole subject.........
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Is it Christian behavior, to demand an apology?

[/FONT]

...just wondering.

nice call. A christian thinking after the spirit would never need an apology.. it is our flesh which would demand one, which is a sin,, Guess again, Jason proves he is still a sinner

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
This is the key, to this discussion.
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

The word forever does not seem to mean anything to these people.

How can one be perfect forever, yet be in the proces off being sanctified at the same time? yet be sinless??
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest


from the article:


“remain faithful in their commitment to Him” is something that many OSASers think is separate from salvation. But in a way that defeats the purpose of salvation.

I disagree with the other extreme of “sinless perfection” but being faithful after conversion is an important part of salvation.



I agree, the issue is not being sinless. as some want to say. But it is remaining faithful. Then again, the argument then leads to how much faith does it take. Well jesus said faith of a mustard seed can move a mountain (have you ever seen a mustard seed) so if this little of a faith can cause God to work in and through us, would not that same amount of faith do the same to save us or keep us saved (Lord I believe, help me in my unbelief, said the man in mark 9: 24 said.)

thus the question is finalized in this, can one who has true faith and is saved, fall in unbelief to the point they are no longer saved (ie, faith less than a mustard seed)

I believe scripture says no. Some will say yes, thus here is the argument.
 
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BradC

Guest
JASON, if the believer slips up and sins, how does the following apply to him if he does or does not repent...

Rom 4:7,8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest


There seems to be opposing, extreme trends of “sinless perfection” vs. OSAS.

IMO, the “sinless perfection” extremist view is almost as flawed as the OSAS extremist view. Those who have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior are not looking for “justification for sin” as the extreme perfectionists say.

However, obedience to Jesus’ words is essential to salvation, contrary to what most OSASers think.

It’s interesting how the extreme perfectionists (no sin whatsoever) are using extreme OSAS ideas (“justification for sin”) to bash regular christians, and extreme OSASers are using extreme perfectionist ideas (“ah ha, you sinned, so you’re not a christian”) to bash regular christians.

IMO, true salvation is somewhere between the two extremes.
I agree.

another thing which happens so often is the legalist telling the ones who believe in eternal security they want to sin (are licentious), and the licentious telling the one who has security in salvation they are being legalist (because we will confront them on their sin)


its like a roller coaster which never stops. and the operator can not see there is anything wrong.
 
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There is no choice to be made. The Greek isn't offering a separate and different meaning. It's simply giving the true meaning. It's then your choice which English words to use to convey the proper meaning.The reason God used the Greek is because it is a much more precise language than the English.

It seems to me however that since you can't refute the Greek you are simply refusing to acknowledge it.
I am sorry. I strongly diagree.

One language is no different than another language. God never said he regards one language better than another. He was able to translate language so that all could hear each other in their own tongues just fine in Acts chapter 2.

There are many problems in thinking the Greek is superior. One, you have a... "one up" on somebody and you appear to be smarter than somebody else (When in reality you have no idea what you are really talking about because you did not actually grow up writing, reading, and speaking the same actual Biblical Greek that Paul and the others did). For there is a huge difference in studying a language many years later from many different sources that have many different opinions on what words mean, and actually knowing what it truly means by first hand experience in speaking that language. For example: Imagine the English language died out and most all books and internet sources on how to speak it were gone. Now, imagine a person discovering a book thousands of years into our future on how to speak English. Do you really expect that person to be able to speak English like you and me? No. Because there are things in that book that may not be covered. Also, languages change with time, too. We see this in our own language. Early Moden English (1600's English) is not the same as Late Modern English (Today's English).

Okay, imagine you are in a class room and you are telling somebody about the Bible for the first time and you start speaking, and writing to them in Greek about it. They are going to be 100% clueless and they are going to trust in.....YOU and not what the Bible actually says VERSUS ....them plainly trusting in their own language so as to understand the Bible to verify the truth for themselves simply and easily. Paul says we are to test all things and hold on to that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). How is one going to do that if you make it virtually impossible for the poor and simple fishermen or common man to study the Scriptures and test things for themselves? If they are really required to study the Greek, would not God's Word say something about that? Did Jesus say His burden was light or that it was easy? Sure sounds like you are making it harder for people. For if you if you speak Greek to people, uou just pulled away any hope they had in knowing the Scriptures quickly and easily for themsleves. For you could be saying one thing in Greek, and they could be (like me) saying something else in the English. But the thing is, they have more of an assurance that their interpretation is correct because they actually KNOW the language that they speak. They have intimately experienced it with other people. There is no room to pass a quick false interpretation upon someone without them knowing it because they really do not speak and write Greek. But if the scholar has a bunch a fancy degrees and has the name Doctor in front of his name, all of a sudden he is like a code key to unlocking the mysteries of the Bible. No way. God's Word is understood by the Spirit and not by studying another language that you do not know and that has most likely changed over the years (And is in constant disagreement by scholars). But go ahead. Keep pretending the Greek is a better way to communicate the Bible to people. Simple people will scratch their heads and just point to what the Bible really says in their own language simply while you claim to be more smarter than them.

I mean, it reminds of when the priests in the Catholic church used to speak the Scriptures in Latin to their congregation. They were absolutely clueless. They had no actual understanding what was being said. Oh, but those priests sure sounded smart, though.

Paul says he would rather speak five words with the understanding than five thousand words without the understanding. When you speak or write Biblical Greek to people (Which is a dead language that nobody has had experiencing growing up speaking anymore), you are speaking confusion to them. It's like the Tower of Babel. Everyone spoke but they had no way of truly understanding each other. It's the same when you speak Greek to people. It's well.... "Greek to them." They have no clue. So you become their god of interpreting the Bible (If that is what you desire).

So no. I am strongly against what you said here. Big time. It is wrong to have a... "one up" on someone making them think you know God's Word better than them because you know a language that you never truly grew up talking or writing for yourself first hand amongst that actual culture.
 
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JASON, if the believer slips up and sins, how does the following apply to him if he does or does not repent...

Rom 4:7,8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Well, because your falsely assuming that this does not involve confessing and forsaking sin as mentioned in Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:7 (cf. with 1 John 2:3-4).
 

notuptome

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So sins like murder, hate, rape, sleeping with a bunch of women, and other sexual immoralities is just automatically forgiven in Christ if one lapses into doing such evils? Is that what you are saying? What happens if one dies in these types of sins? Are they still saved? How would such a belief make them different from the world and how it behaves? Does not Ephesians 4:17-27 essentially say that we used to be sinners and we are now to live unto holiness?
You have no way to perceive the truth. You have no concept of the new nature that is imparted through the new birth.

Form the world perspective the answer to your question is yes. The truth is that the new nature does not take a man into sin but into righteousness.

The blood of Christ atones for my sin on a continuous basis. The blood of Christ is eternally efficacious and is never exhausted. It is easy to see that you and your ilk have no knowledge of Spiritual things. No concept of Spiritual fruit in the life. Only onerous laborious efforts to gain righteousness which are fruitless in Gods eyes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Jason if you are going to give an example please give a good comparison, as your way of thinking is absurd.
You are not an employer, you are just another person here on CC.
Dude is a relaxed way of saying MATE or FRIEND or BUDDY.
Your perception on words seems to be different to 99% of people here on CC which is why you find it so difficult to understand what other people are saying because you seem to think people are attacking you.
If you are strong in Christ then I suggest you start realising that people are not out to get you.
Well, I do not know what words are acceptable to use in your country, but here in the land of the red, white, and blue, if you say "dude" to someone in a Job interview, you will considerably decrease your chances of getting that job unless they are a surfer or if they are blinded by some kind of wrong lustful thoughts. Most who are professional here in America will not hire you if you called them "dude." Also, most fathers here in America will not respect someone (especially a new boyfriend who meets the girl friend's father for the first time) will respect their choice to call them "dude." You know, you kinda have to grow up here to experience and know that. Granted, there are a few here who are unskilled in the ways of knowing such things (Usually people who grew up playing sports and hitting their head against lockers on a Sunday night or those who completely immersed themselves in the party and bar scene instead of studying could possibly think that way). But not your average person who has studied and had a descent education and experience in what to say and not to say.
 
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Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

The word forever does not seem to mean anything to these people.

How can one be perfect forever, yet be in the proces off being sanctified at the same time? yet be sinless??
There are quite a few words they reject such as eternal, everlasting, justification, sealed, uttermost, etc......as well as verb tense and context to boot!
 
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You have no way to perceive the truth. You have no concept of the new nature that is imparted through the new birth.

Form the world perspective the answer to your question is yes. The truth is that the new nature does not take a man into sin but into righteousness.

The blood of Christ atones for my sin on a continuous basis. The blood of Christ is eternally efficacious and is never exhausted. It is easy to see that you and your ilk have no knowledge of Spiritual things. No concept of Spiritual fruit in the life. Only onerous laborious efforts to gain righteousness which are fruitless in Gods eyes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
But see, what you preach is a double minded message (That appears to look good on the outside at first glance, but it is truly wicked on the inside after close examination). On one hand, you are saying your message will lead people into righteousness. Yet on the other hand you are saying that no sin will ever be accounted to your record (Thereby giving people the idea that they will abide in sin (with the thinking they are saved - whether it be for a long time or a short time - or forever. For they could abide in unrepentant serious sins like murder, rape, hate, adultery, lust, and drunkenness, etc. all while thinking they can then enter thru the gates of Heaven). This is what a lot of people in the world sort of think. They think God will just let them into Heaven, because they are not that bad of person. God just understands that they lust after women and God just understands that they get drunk all the time. Hey, everybody does it. So it must be okay. Right? Wrong. Evil is evil and it makes you an evil person regardless of what you claim to believe. I mean, seriously do you honestly think a crazy Bible quoting axe murderer (Who believes Jesus is his Savior) is saved? I don't think so. Jesus said you will know false prophets by their FRUIT (i.e. deeds).

There are many who have come out of OSAS thinking it was leading them into sin. For it does not encourage one to think there is any real consequence to sin that will truly matter to them to stop sinning. Chastening? Well, that only works if you truly want to please God. But most will just think that everyone just suffers anyways and they will continue to sin and think they are saved.

Now, you may say there are testimonies of people who came out of legalism to prove your case. But this is not what I teach. I do not teach that a person has to earn their salvation or that it is their own work that saves them. That's also a false gospel. God does the work in the believer. So I cannot claim that I am doing the work of my own power. Jesus works in me to do all good in this life. For Jesus said without Him, we can do nothing. And I believe that. So it has nothing to do with Legalism, but it has to do with abiding in Jesus Christ (Who is the source of a person's salvation). No Jesus = No life (1 John 5:12). If one has Jesus, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident in their life. For even Paul said know not your own selves and prove that Christ is in you unless you be reprobate. How can you prove that Christ is in you? Try reading 1 John 2:3-4 and then read Titus 1:16 and then Hebrews 12:14.

Also, as for your comment about undertanding: Try reading 1 Timothy 6:3-4 closely in prayer sometime.
 
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Starting a question with: "Would it not be..." further complicates an already complex question.

Does one need to be extraordinary in deciphering code, in order to receive the gift of Salvation? (No.)
First, well, last I checked, if Vigilante Warrior if I recall correctly and if he has not changed his beliefs, he is not really in support of holiness like he says. For if my memory serves me correctly, he believes 1 John 1:8 says that a believer will always be in sin. Well, one is either walking in sin or they are wallking in holiness. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters for you will hate the one and love the other. You cannot have it both ways. For the luke warm believer is spewed out of Christ's mouth. Jesus says if you save your life you shall lose it, but if you lose your life for his sake, you will save it. Does that sound like OSAS, too? Sure doesn't.

Second, you jumped down my case for using words that were not a personal attack, and you are supporting a person here whose language is fowl and who is calling me an unbeliever repeatedly. For there is a difference in saying that a certain belief makes you an unbeliever versus say making it personal and calling them an unbeliever every chance they get (So as to rub in their face personally).
 
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Well, I do not know what words are acceptable to use in your country, but here in the land of the red, white, and blue, if you say "dude" to someone in a Job interview, you will considerably decrease your chances of getting that job unless they are a surfer or if they are blinded by some kind of wrong lustful thoughts. Most who are professional here in America will not hire you if you called them "dude." Also, most fathers here in America will not respect someone (especially a new boyfriend who meets the girl friend's father for the first time) will respect their choice to call them "dude." You know, you kinda have to grow up here to experience and know that. Granted, there are a few here who are unskilled in the ways of knowing such things (Usually people who grew up playing sports and hitting their head against lockers on a Sunday night or those who completely immersed themselves in the party and bar scene instead of studying could possibly think that way). But not your average person who has studied and had a descent education and experience in what to say and not to say.
You are barking up the wrong tree with her pal....she sees right through your fallacies....nor will she acknowledge your view as she actually studies the bible and applies it!
 

Reborn

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Well, I do not know what words are acceptable to use in your country, but here in the land of the red, white, and blue, if you say "dude" to someone in a Job interview, you will considerably decrease your chances of getting that job unless they are a surfer or if they are blinded by some kind of wrong lustful thoughts. Most who are professional here in America will not hire you if you called them "dude." Also, most fathers here in America will not respect someone (especially a new boyfriend who meets the girl friend's father for the first time) will respect their choice to call them "dude." You know, you kinda have to grow up here to experience and know that. Granted, there are a few here who are unskilled in the ways of knowing such things (Usually people who grew up playing sports and hitting their head against lockers on a Sunday night or those who completely immersed themselves in the party and bar scene instead of studying could possibly think that way). But not your average person who has studied and had a descent education and experience in what to say and not to say.

Okay, dude.

I like how you wing it on everything...even on how people use words.
You crack me up, dude.
 
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You are barking up the wrong tree with her pal....she sees right through your fallacies....nor will she acknowledge your view as she actually studies the bible and applies it!
Oh, good. Then she wouldn't mind at least talking about at least 5-10 of the following passages below by using the context of the surrounding verses and then giving us cross references that say the same thing.

Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):


  • Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

  • Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

  • Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

  • Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.


  • Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

  • Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

  • Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.


  • Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

  • Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

  • Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

  • John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

  • John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

  • John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

  • John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

  • Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

  • Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

  • Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

  • Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

  • Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

  • Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

  • 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

  • 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

  • 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

  • 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

  • Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

  • Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

  • Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

  • Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

  • Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

  • Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

  • Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
    … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

  • Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

  • Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

  • Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

  • 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

  • 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

  • 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

  • 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

  • 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

  • Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

  • Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

  • Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

  • Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

  • Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

  • Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

  • Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

  • Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

  • Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

  • Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

  • Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

  • Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

  • Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

  • James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

  • 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

  • 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

  • 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

  • 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

  • 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

  • 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

  • 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

  • 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

  • Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

  • Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.


  • Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

  • Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

  • Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

  • Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

  • Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

  • Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

  • Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

  • Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.


Source Used:
Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS - BaptistBoard.com
 
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Okay, dude.

I like how you wing it on everything...even on how people use words.
You crack me up, dude.
Well, it sounds like you grew up around people that said "dude" alot. Like I said before, I did acknowledge that there are surfers and others who are accustomed to saying this word alot. But it is not the accepted norm of most people here in America. Dude is only said to people who you know intimately (and sometimes that is not even done because many do not like being called dude in such cirumstances). But would you be brave enough to go into a job interview and say "dude" to them? Would you be brave enough to say "dude" to you father's girlfriend that you met for the first time (Who you are trying to impress)?

Let's do an experiment. Try saying "dude" to every new person you meet for the first time (Or some person in a crowd) and see if that improves your ability to talk to them better or not.
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
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Oh, good. Then she wouldn't mind at least talking about at least 5-10 of the following passages below by using the context of the surrounding verses and then giving us cross references that say the same thing.

Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):


  • Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

  • Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

  • Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

  • Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.


  • Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

  • Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

  • Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.


  • Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

  • Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

  • Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

  • John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

  • John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

  • John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

  • John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

  • Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

  • Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

  • Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

  • Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

  • Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

  • Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

  • 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

  • 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

  • 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

  • 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

  • Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

  • Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

  • Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

  • Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

  • Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

  • Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

  • Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
    … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

  • Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

  • Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

  • Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

  • 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

  • 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

  • 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

  • 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

  • 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

  • Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

  • Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

  • Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

  • Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

  • Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

  • Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

  • Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

  • Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

  • Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

  • Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

  • Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

  • Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

  • Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

  • James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

  • 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

  • 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

  • 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

  • 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

  • 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

  • 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

  • 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

  • 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

  • Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

  • Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.


  • Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

  • Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

  • Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

  • Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

  • Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

  • Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

  • Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

  • Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.


Source Used:
Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS - BaptistBoard.com
Keep dreaming and living in fantasy land pal...the majority of the verses you quoted have nothing to do with salvation, being saved and or and it's eternal state.....more cut and pasting on your part of some list made up of scriptures out of context with no bearing on salvation.....

The Jesus of the bible saves to the UTTERMOST and IMPUTES HIS righteousness to one who actually acknowledges him by faith....So...you preach a Jesus not found in the bible...I suggest you actually trust the Lord before it is too late for you!