Is the Prophet lying?

[pwrnJC]

Are you asking why are there people in hell? First of all, GOD does NOT want them to be there..He would have NONE perish. Hell was not part of the Creation Story. When GOD rested and said "IT is GOOD!"...hell was not part of that scenario. Hell came later, for obvious reasons. There was a rebellion in heaven and lucifer lead it. We now know those 'fallen angels" as demons. Hell is their holding tank.
People choose their own lifestyle that puts themselves in hell. Would you deny that past historical figures such as Hitler, Mussolini, Sadam Houssein, and any ISIS promoter, Jack the Ripper and worse do NOT need to be there? lol The sad thing is that there are gonna be lots of people in hell who were NICE, polite, and never harmed a flea, yet never accepted CHRIST as their Savior...you will be shocked! Rest assured that GOD is the final JUDGE..that is not our department...

 

[Willie-T]

(Rev 22:17 [Mace])
the spirit and the bride say, come, let him that heareth, say, come, let him that is a-thirst, come: and whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Sorry Brother but the verse is to vague to say who its being spoken to. Let me say at the moment it appears vague. I have not really studied the totality of the verse.

My point here is that we are down to the very last few lines of the entire book of Revelation. Who else is left to be "called" BUT those who are unrepentant (unbelievers) and have been cast onto the LofF?

 

[RussellJBenigno]

So how much room for discussion does your conclusion leave?

The point is to demonstrate that people oppose the things of God without thinking. The Prophet is clear that "All are forgiven in the Lamb of God". So what this discussion is really about is,"Why do people disagree with the Prophet?"

God had many prophets...and yet most do not refer to John, the cousin of Jesus, as THE Prophet

For our purposes he is The Prophet at the moment. A prophet sent to prepare the way of the Messiah.

In answering as you did, you basically invite a defensive position. I do not think your op warrants that.

People ignore what he said for another narrative. So yes, I set the flag on the hill and defy anyone to take it down. John is correct in that Jesus takes away the sin of the world or He doesn't. Its that easy.

In order to avoid confusion, or an automated response from you, I do not give automated answers, so discussion is available.

So discuss away why you think John was wrong, because I don't hear you saying he's right. You want to put a big "But" to follow his words. But you need to do this, but you need to believe this, but, but but. The problem for you is there is no "But", if you believe his message was complete and truth from God. I'm all ears!

 

[Yet]

Willy, I am shocked. Do you mean to tell me that you think that the 'church' can actually be wrong about something. Will wonders never cease.smile!

 

[ember]

The point is to demonstrate that people oppose the things of God without thinking. The Prophet is clear that "All are forgiven in the Lamb of God". So what this discussion is really about is,"Why do people disagree with the Prophet?"

For our purposes he is The Prophet at the moment. A prophet sent to prepare the way of the Messiah.

People ignore what he said for another narrative. So yes, I set the flag on the hill and defy anyone to take it down. John is correct in that Jesus takes away the sin of the world or He doesn't. Its that easy.

So discuss away why you think John was wrong, because I don't hear you saying he's right. You want to put a big "But" to follow his words. But you need to do this, but you need to believe this, but, but but. The problem for you is there is no "But", if you believe his message was complete and truth from God. I'm all ears!

Actually, I am thinking it is going to be somewhat difficult to discuss anything with someone who writes preemptively that I disagree with the Bible.

John is not the author of this op. YOU are...might help if you are less defensive.

Maybe you could lay off the "I know more than you do attitude"...that is how I perceive you at this moment

I have a Bible...more than one...and I know what John said.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

My point here is that we are down to the very last few lines of the entire book of Revelation. Who else is left to be "called" BUT those who are unrepentant (unbelievers) and have been cast onto the LofF?

I understand what your getting at, but the verse is to vague to support your premise, not that I'm against it.
God is Love and Love is not unfair nor cruel. The scripture says in Romans that everything to be known about God is already revealed to men and placed in them as a witness. Jesus lights every man who comes into the world. Jesus said,"If I be lifted up I will draw "ALL" men unto me. When we die we are all instantly infused with the full knowledge of God. Its a no brainer at that point. Its only the people who are committed to wickedness who will suffer.

There are three people mentioned in scripture, the righteous, the sinner and the wicked. The righteous are already walking with God. The sinners are on the fence and this is why Jesus tried to reach them, they are able to be persuaded. The wicked are gone, toast, they are committed to their destruction and it is virtually impossible to reach them. This all hinges on the unpardonable sin and what it is.

 

[ember]

The point is to demonstrate that people oppose the things of God without thinking. The Prophet is clear that "All are forgiven in the Lamb of God". So what this discussion is really about is,"Why do people disagree with the Prophet?"

Why START with the premise that people oppose 'the things of God' (man I dislike that generic what has become a phrase meaning all enclusive spiritual knowledge) without thinking

You start your conversation with me with a statement, in which it appears I am included, that automatically dictates all answers must submit to your conclusions.

Really? I never buy that sort of thing

I would like to know why you refer to John as THE Prophet...instead of patting me on the head and saying :

For our purposes he is The Prophet at the moment. A prophet sent to prepare the way of the Messiah.

I know why John was sent, so don't patronize me, OKAY?

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Actually, I am thinking it is going to be somewhat difficult to discuss anything with someone who writes preemptively that I disagree with the Bible.

John is not the author of this op. YOU are...might help if you are less defensive.

John is the author of the Words. Your dancing around what he said. Do you agree with John as is, nothing added? Its that simple?

 

[Willie-T]

Too bad................................................... Last night, for the first time since I joined, I felt like there was a truly legitimate discussion going on..... then it all dissolved into the usual ____ seen here most of the time.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Why START with the premise that people oppose 'the things of God' (man I dislike that generic what has become a phrase meaning all enclusive spiritual knowledge) without thinking

Because most modern christians are programed to disagree with John's words.

You start your conversation with me with a statement, in which it appears I am included, that automatically dictates all answers must submit to your conclusions.

No! They must submit to Johns conclusion. His conclusion is, "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".

I would like to know why you refer to John as THE Prophet...instead of patting me on the head and saying :
For our purposes he is The Prophet at the moment. A prophet sent to prepare the way of the Messiah.

I'm not patronizing you. I'm just saying for the purpose of this discussion he is the prophet at hand and as the prophet at hand he is a direct representative of God to us speaking God's Words. I'm emphasizing "The Prophet" in order to make it clear he is not to be ignored.

 

[ember]

Too bad................................................... Last night, for the first time since I joined, I felt like there was a truly legitimate discussion going on..... then it all dissolved into the usual ____ seen here most of the time.

yeah I guess it is too bad...you can always pm him

even God allows questions

 

[Tintin]

Too bad................................................... Last night, for the first time since I joined, I felt like there was a truly legitimate discussion going on..... then it all dissolved into the usual ____ seen here most of the time.

Really, brother? All I see here is someone who can't tell trees from angels and fruit from teachings.

 

[ember]

John is the author of the Words. Your dancing around what he said. Do you agree with John as is, nothing added? Its that simple?

I'm not dancing

Perhaps I am too straightforward for you and don't need an air of mystery surrounding what I post

yes, John said that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world and yes I agree

 

[valiant]

Ok! I guess I have to post on it.
I was raised a baptist and believed all the doctrine taught. To make the story short God had me take another look at what I believed. He sent me into the Gospels with a command to only believe what I read and found in the original languages. I did not set out to prove or disprove, but find truth and where ever it lead. I read about hell and the lake of fire only from scripture and nowhere else. I read no books or commentaries on the subject, just the scripture. I compared and looked at every verse and corresponding reference I could find. I was really shocked at what I found. I read where God was an "eternal burning fire", funny that's what the lake of fire is an eternal burning fire. What are the chances of having two eternal burning fires. See where this is going. God is Love and His Love is so pure it burns all that corrupt to ashes. These people thrown in to the LOF are really being thrown into the heart of God. The only reason they are sent there is because they have rejected the forgiveness. Get it! They willfully reject the forgiveness. They stand in total defiance of God and He Loves them till there is nothing left of their defiance. Christ died for one Sin and one Sin [singular] alone and that was the sin of rebellion. The translators falsely translated it as sins [plural]. This is my personal belief and by Revelation so I don't expect anyone else to hold position. Of course I have in context scripture to back it up. My foundation is always in context scripture. Much of the teachings about hell are out of context and distorted.

your arguments are based on false premises. This ridiculous idea that like phrases necessarily indicate the same thing is totally false exegesis. Your suggestion that because God is called an eternal burning fire (without reference of course) means that He must be identified with the eternally burning lake of fire is the height of absurdity..

Let us consider a debunking Scripture, Mat 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

So are we to take it that God is the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels? And I thought that God is eternal PAST AND FUTURE whilst the everlasting fire is not LOL The question only has to be asked to make clear the folly of your position

 

[ember]

RussellJBenigno;2228809Because most modern christians are programed to disagree with John's words.

No! They must submit to Johns conclusion. His conclusion is, "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".


Well, you say they do. John was speaking by the Holy Spirit because when he was in prison, he sent his disciples to ask Jesus if He was or not...similar to Peter saying Jesus was the Son of God and then a moment later saying something that Jesus rebuked.

I'm not patronizing you. I'm just saying for the purpose of this discussion he is the prophet at hand and as the prophet at hand he is a direct representative of God to us speaking God's Words. I'm emphasizing "The Prophet" in order to make it clear he is not to be ignored.


Well, when someone answers as did you, that is how I perceive it. Well, the words of John are being discussed and yes he was prophet, but many foretold Christ's mission...Isaiah for example. But I understand your particular reference is to the words 'TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD"

When an op begins with a conclusion and insists all must agree and basically insults most believers, you cannot expect everyone to sing kum by yah

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by RussellJBenigno (Rev 22:17 [Mace])
the spirit and the bride say, come, let him that heareth, say, come, let him that is a-thirst, come: and whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Sorry Brother but the verse is to vague to say who its being spoken to. Let me say at the moment it appears vague. I have not really studied the totality of the verse.

My point here is that we are down to the very last few lines of the entire book of Revelation. Who else is left to be "called" BUT those who are unrepentant (unbelievers) and have been cast onto the LofF?

This is typical muddleheaded thinking of those who encourage pedantic literalism and is a grave misuse of the word of God.

These words are a final appeal by John to his readers calling on them to come to Christ. It has nothing to do with mythical people in the lake of fire. It is a call to unbelievers from John's day onwards. Nothing else can be gleaned from it.

 

[valiant]

RussellJBenigno;2228809Because most modern christians are programed to disagree with John's words.

No! They must submit to Johns conclusion. His conclusion is, "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".

Or perhaps most Christians have the sense not to over-emphasise a doubtful translation?

when related to the cross airo means 'take up, bear'.('Take up your cross and follow me'), Thus John is saying that Jesus bears on Himself the sins of the world. In other words His sacrifice is sufficient for the sins of the whole world. Indeed it is sufficient for the sins of a thousand worlds for He is the infinite Son of God.

But Scripture makes clear that for each individual it can only be applicable to them if they truly believe in Him (John 3.16). So Scripture must be compared with and interpreted in the light of other Scriptures.

 

[dcontroversal]

We know EXACTLY why Satan rejected God. That is obvious.

AND. I am done. Still only know 2 believers that know Christ paid for ALL sin................and there are still multitudes that are going to the LoF for eternity and are going to be in anguish forever.

They go to the lake of fire because their names are not found written in the book of life........

 

[kaylagrl]

God offered His gift of grace (through Jesus and His sacrifice) to all people, but not everyone accepted/accepts it. Accepting God's grace is necessary to complete the transaction. And repenting, turning from sin and turning to Christ is important. Grace is God's undeserved love, but a relationship is reciprocal. It requires action from both parties. That's not works, that's God's grace.

Theres some common sense,thank you ,I thought I tripped into another world there for a minute....

 

[KennethC]

Let me put it this way. If you were standing by the Jordon river and heard John say these words what would they mean. Be honest! What would you believe the prophet was saying? You know nothing else but what the prophet is saying. What is he saying?

I would think that this man who John is pointing out as the Lamb that will take away the sins of the world, that I would then need to follow Him and see what He has to say.

For John just paved the way for Jesus ministry, he did not sum it up in just those few words, for the Lord still gave in His teachings other things that have to be done to receive that remission through Him. The first step is faith in Him and through that belief in the Lord it is an active continuation to be done, following out of love to keep His teachings and commands.