Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

Bouman,



I have already but I'll start over and lead you. Why did Christ come? What is the primary problem of man and this world? answer those and I'll continue to lead you to the meaning of "bound" which by the poll shows that 29 do not know.

Jesus came for numerous reasons, of importance for this discussion is this...

Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; (Heb 2.14)

 

[Cassian]

Re: Keep running...

Bouman,

Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; (Heb 2.14)

that is describing the Incarnation of Christ and why He needed to assume our human nature, our mortal human nature. This is because man, through Adam was condemned to death, Gen 3:19, Rom 5:12 and this verse clearly states that by death Christ will defeat death and Satan. This very text says as forthright as one can get that death is the power of Satan. Christ had no power through death. That is Satan realm, not Christ's realm. Your view that Satan was bound simply by Christ's death would be absurd. Satan would have been the victor over Christ because Christ could not defeat death and Satan. II Tim 1:10 makes the very same statement that Christ overcame death. Christ ONLY defeated death by overcoming death, the power of Satan. That is accomplished ONLY through His resurrection which is life. I Cor 15:12-22 makes that very clear.

Then you have the previous passages I also showed you that Christ decended into hades. The place where Satan dwells, the pit mentioned in Rev 20:1-3. In Matt, previously stated Christ states that He will surprise the "good man" namely Satan and enter his house to take the spoils. Christ took all those held captive by Satan in Hades. Held captive by DEATH. Christ's resurrection gave life to all men, to the world. Satan no longer has any power through death. Man will not die permanently by returning to dust as Gen 3:19 states.

Simply binding Satan without the Resurrection is futile, empty, and a failed mission by Christ. You stopped short of the meaning, the purpose of Christ dying even the verse clearly states it, as do others. Never does scripture say that death of Christ defeated death. It is His death AND resurrection that bound Satan, it took away his power of death.

You wanted sources, just look up all he sources dealing with the Incarnation of Christ, from Athanasius's defense of it, in the 4th century in "On the Incarnation. You can also source the three Ecumenical Councils that dealt with Christ's Incarnation in the 4th and 5th centuries. John Romanides on the "Ancestral Sin". There are many more that explain it over the last 2000 years.

Not once in those 2000 years does it ever state that death of Christ could possibly bind Satan. Death is Satan realm, death is the tool of Satan. As long as Christ remained in death, death and Satan is the victor. ONLY by His resurrection does He defeat death and thus bind Satan.

You were close but you missed the purpose of Christ's coming, missed the purpose of His Incarnation. Missed the meaning of our salvation from death, sin and the devil. No man, nor the world is bound by death any longer. Death cannot defeat death, only life and that is what Christ gave the world.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

Bouman,

that is describing the Incarnation of Christ and why He needed to assume our human nature, our mortal human nature. This is because man, through Adam was condemned to death, Gen 3:19, Rom 5:12 and this verse clearly states that by death Christ will defeat death and Satan.

No.

We already went over this, and you ignored it.

The next verse explains Jesus' death...

and might set these free, as many as by fear of deathwere subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live. (Heb 2.15)


Jesus' death bound Satan so that we could freely come to Jesus without being deceived by Satan, himself.


The Cross marks the 'binding' of Satan.

The Resurrection marks the 'defeat' of Satan.


You keep blending these two separate events as one.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Keep running...

No.

We already went over this, and you ignored it.

The next verse explains Jesus' death...

and might set these free, as many as by fear of deathwere subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live. (Heb 2.15)


Jesus' death bound Satan so that we could freely come to Jesus without being deceived by Satan, himself.


The Cross marks the 'binding' of Satan.

The Resurrection marks the 'defeat' of Satan.


You keep blending these two separate events as one.

typical Protestant theology. Separate everything into meaningless boxes. Binding Satan by death is worthless unless Christ is raised to defeat death. You can bind Satan a thousand times and unless Christ arises from death Satan cannot be bound. Christ actually remains bound and Satan the victor. How can you separate them. You cannot even separate the reason why it was necessary. It is part of the whole. It is the whole that matters, not isolated disconnected parts.

Jesus' death bound Satan so that we could freely come to Jesus without being deceived by Satan, himself.

Which is meaningless again, UNLESS Christ is raised to give man and the world life, an eternal existence again.

If you leave Satan bound and Christ does not arise to life, you are no better off than an animal and still condemned to death.
Is a man handcuffed if you never shut the handcuff? Is a man bound if you never tie the knot?

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

This very text says as forthright as one can get that death is the power of Satan.

It 'was'....until Jesus' death at the Cross, as Heb 2.14 plainly states.

Christ had no power through death. That is Satan realm, not Christ's realm. Your view that Satan was bound simply by Christ's death would be absurd. Satan would have been the victor over Christ because Christ could not defeat death and Satan.

You keep repeating your dogma without scriptural merit.

Jesus' death immediately rendered Satan impotent ‘katargēsē’, as declared by scripture.

Your constant denial of this can't change this fact.

You are going to have to more than just bark out...'you're wrong' all the time.

If you really understood your stance, you would have already directly addressed each salient point which I made in my exegesis.

II Tim 1:10 makes the very same statement that Christ overcame death. Christ ONLY defeated death by overcoming death, the power of Satan. That is accomplished ONLY through His resurrection which is life. I Cor 15:12-22 makes that very clear.

Show us this 'clarity' directly with the scriptures that you mention....that way we can see who has the better understanding of the Greek...

Good luck...

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

Then you have the previous passages I also showed you that Christ decended into hades. The place where Satan dwells, the pit mentioned in Rev 20:1-3. In Matt, previously stated Christ states that He will surprise the "good man" namely Satan and enter his house to take the spoils. Christ took all those held captive by Satan in Hades. Held captive by DEATH. Christ's resurrection gave life to all men, to the world. Satan no longer has any power through death. Man will not die permanently by returning to dust as Gen 3:19 states.

You haven't shown anything.

Since when is parroting a scriptural number, with some of your own commentary thrown in for good measure, 'showing' me anything?

If you want to impress me, then you would provide your exegesis for these scriptures...of which, we both know will NEVER happen...

Simply binding Satan without the Resurrection is futile, empty, and a failed mission by Christ.

This thread is about the Binding of Satan....NOT about the Resurrection.

How many times does this need to be repeated for you?

Scripture details these as separate events...one occurred BEFORE the other...and are being treated as such.

You stopped short of the meaning, the purpose of Christ dying even the verse clearly states it, as do others. Never does scripture say that death of Christ defeated death. It is His death AND resurrection that bound Satan, it took away his power of death.

Jesus' death bound Satan.

The Second Death defeats Satan.

Simple.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

You wanted sources, just look up all he sources dealing with the Incarnation of Christ, from Athanasius's defense of it, in the 4th century in "On the Incarnation. You can also source the three Ecumenical Councils that dealt with Christ's Incarnation in the 4th and 5th centuries. John Romanides on the "Ancestral Sin". There are many more that explain it over the last 2000 years. Not once in those 2000 years does it ever state that death of Christ could possibly bind Satan. Death is Satan realm, death is the tool of Satan. As long as Christ remained in death, death and Satan is the victor. ONLY by His resurrection does He defeat death and thus bind Satan.

What good is a vague statement to some Catholic resources going to do?

Pick their VERY BEST argument(s) and defend it!

You were close but you missed the purpose of Christ's coming, missed the purpose of His Incarnation. Missed the meaning of our salvation from death, sin and the devil. No man, nor the world is bound by death any longer. Death cannot defeat death, only life and that is what Christ gave the world.

This thread is about ONE thing...the binding of Satan.

Clearly...you are finding yourself in a pickle, as you were taught incorrectly all these years.

Now you know why Catholics are a minority...

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

typical Protestant theology. Separate everything into meaningless boxes.

Its called systematic exegesis.

Protestants are free to exegete scripture for ourselves....we are not limited to having some priest dictating man-made dogma.

Binding Satan by death is worthless unless Christ is raised to defeat death. You can bind Satan a thousand times and unless Christ arises from death Satan cannot be bound. Christ actually remains bound and Satan the victor. How can you separate them. You cannot even separate the reason why it was necessary. It is part of the whole. It is the whole that matters, not isolated disconnected parts.

Which is meaningless again, UNLESS Christ is raised to give man and the world life, an eternal existence again.

If you leave Satan bound and Christ does not arise to life, you are no better off than an animal and still condemned to death.
Is a man handcuffed if you never shut the handcuff? Is a man bound if you never tie the knot?

Still waiting for you to prove your worldview DIRECTLY with scripture.

You can't do it.

All you can do is talk AROUND scripture...

 

[Cassian]

Re: Keep running...

It 'was'....until Jesus' death at the Cross, as Heb 2.14 plainly states.







You keep repeating your dogma without scriptural merit.

Gave you very precise scriptural merit along with the scriptural and theological meaning of being bound. If you think you are still correct provide answers to the questions below.

Jesus' death immediately rendered Satan impotent ‘katargēsē’, as declared by scripture.

so you say, but explain just how that is effected and how it effects our salvation.

Your constant denial of this can't change this fact.

Then explain just how that benefits anyone? How does that help our salvation? Show me where that effected anything if Christ remained in Hades? If Christ remained dead, how does that bind Satan?

If you really understood your stance, you would have already directly addressed each salient point which I made in my exegesis.

You have a dead end theological concept. Unless you can answer the above questions and keep it scriptural it means nothing.

Show us this 'clarity' directly with the scriptures that you mention....that way we can see who has the better understanding of the Greek...

It has nothing to do with the Greek. It has to do with understanding the theological/scriptural purpose and effect upon us as human beings.

Good luck

You are the one that needs luck. You have a personal interpretation that, up to this point has no value for anyone, unless you can show it does. I don't think you will overthrow 2000 years of consistent understanding of what it means.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Keep running...

You haven't shown anything.

Since when is parroting a scriptural number, with some of your own commentary thrown in for good measure, 'showing' me anything?

If you want to impress me, then you would provide your exegesis for these scriptures...of which, we both know will NEVER happen...






This thread is about the Binding of Satan....NOT about the Resurrection.

How many times does this need to be repeated for you?

Scripture details these as separate events...one occurred BEFORE the other...and are being treated as such.

obviously they are separate, but kept separate they are meaningless. Death and resurrection cannot be the same event. But simply binding without a resurrection does not bind Satan. Basically you are saying that if a man enters the house, and puts goods into his bag, but never leaves the house, he still robbed the house.

You might get him for breaking and entering but not for theft. Now, explain to me just how Christ binds Satan by His death without a resurrection? I don't think you even understand what is even meant by the term.





Jesus' death bound Satan.

The Second Death defeats Satan.[/quote] First, the second death has nothing to do with this discussion either. The second death is a spiritual death. In other words hell. Christ defeated Satan by His resurrection. He took death away and gave life to the world. He destroyed Satan's power through death by His resurrection. That is the meaning of binding of Satan.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Keep running...

Bowman,

Its called systematic exegesis.

which is why Protestants always get everything wrong. They separate and divide context into little boxes where it becomes meaningless.

Protestants are free to exegete scripture for ourselves....we are not limited to having some priest dictating man-made dogma.

that is true for Protestants but then there are so many versions it is beginning to become innummerable. However, I don't have a Priest dictating to me. That seems to be your misunderstanding of the RCC which I am not. Speaking of man made dogma, you have one right in your own hand.

Still waiting for you to prove your worldview DIRECTLY with scripture.
You can't do it.
All you can do is talk AROUND scripture...

I'm not the one with the difficulty here. You are unable to show how death binds Satan and how that can effect anything for our salvation. What is the purpose of binding Satan? So prove your theological understanding of what it means. Unless you can do that your whole concept falls.

 

[Jasher]

All,

Looking for scriptural positions regarding if Satan is presently bound...

Revelation 20:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

The 1,000 years is a symbol of the unknown length of the Church age. Note that Satan was only bound from doing one thing. Deceiving all of the nations all at one time against the Church. If you look back in history you will see that persecution has been here and there. God is telling us that one day when he is released he will set up a world wide persecution of the Church so much so that if it were allowed to happen it would be like Antiochus in the second century BC. He uses the code word for total annihilation - Gog and Magog. But God puts an end to it before it happens.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

I'm not the one with the difficulty here. You are unable to show how death binds Satan and how that can effect anything for our salvation. What is the purpose of binding Satan? So prove your theological understanding of what it means. Unless you can do that your whole concept falls.

The purpose for binding Satan is found it this verse.

You can render it for yourself…this way you cannot use your lame excuse that it was improperly interpreted…

και απαλλαξη τουτους οσοι φοβω θανατου δια παντος του ζην ενοχοι ησαν δουλειας

 

[Cassian]

Re: Keep running...

The purpose for binding Satan is found it this verse.

You can render it for yourself…this way you cannot use your lame excuse that it was improperly interpreted…

και απαλλαξη τουτους οσοι φοβω θανατου δια παντος του ζην ενοχοι ησαν δουλειας

I already explained to you what it means. Several Times.
However, you are having great difficulty in even supporting your statement of the OP. You asked a question is Satan bound. Apparently, you and 30 others do not know what that means. Satan is bound. Has been bound since the resurrection when Christ defeated death.

The process of binding Him by dyiny means nothing scripturally. Christ cannot defeat death by binding Satan and remaining in Hades. He would not have been able to free those held captive by Satan. The ONLY way to defeat Satan and death is to rise from the dead, thus actually binding Satan.

It is quite obvious you cannot explain any salvic purpose in just binding Satan in Hades. It accomplishes nothing and surely does not save anyone from death including those that were already there.

If you had stated that Christ was binding Him so that He could take the spoils, and then rise to free man and the world from death you would have been correct. Without the resurrection, the binding is meaningless.

It has nothing to do with evil either being or not being in this world. It has nothing to do with Satan unable to devour whom he wills.

It has everything to do with Christ defeating death and Satan.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

I already explained to you what it means. Several Times.

No.

You never did.

Just to keep you honest...show us right now...waiting...

 

[Cassian]

Re: Keep running...

No.

You never did.

Just to keep you honest...show us right now...waiting...

Did in the post to which you are responding. Guess you did not read it.

How about explaining your view scripturally/theologically which you have not done.
Do you even believe Christ has bound Satan? Do you even believe Christ arose from the dead, giving life to the world?

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

Did in the post to which you are responding. Guess you did not read it.

Tell us what verse I posted.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep running...

Tell us what verse I posted.

That's what I thought!

But wait....you responded to it...even though you don't even know what verse it was!

What a joke.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Keep running...

That's what I thought!

But wait....you responded to it...even though you don't even know what verse it was!

What a joke.

It always happens. When one cannot actually explain something, they always resort to nonsubstantive rhetoric and meaningless discourse.

I assume you cannot explain your view scripturally/theologically. All you can do is translate Greek which does not give you the scriptural meaning, only word meanings.

 

[Bowman]

See right through you...

It always happens. When one cannot actually explain something, they always resort to nonsubstantive rhetoric and meaningless discourse.

I assume you cannot explain your view scripturally/theologically. All you can do is translate Greek which does not give you the scriptural meaning, only word meanings.

You lied about even knowing what verse it was that you supposedly responded to.

Fact is...you rely upon your general blanket BUFFALO responses to somehow apply to ANYTHING someone brings up.

Wrong.

You were busted.