Sanctification

[Skinski7]

Paul is very explicit in Romans 6 in describing the cessation of the service of sin in the genuine Christian.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Eternal life is THROUGH Jesus Christ and this is a reference to an ABIDING PRESENT MANIFEST STATE. One cannot be "serving sin" (ie. obeying sin) and be IN Jesus Christ at the same time.

The deception of modern Christianity teaches that one can in fact be serving sin and at the same time be in Christ. Thus the grace of God is twisted into a license to sin.

 

[psalm6819]

The above is the perfect example of deception in action.

Modern Christianity, in general, teaches that the New Birth is PURELY POSITIONAL and thus any ACTUAL MANIFESTATION is disconnected. Then, with this disconnect in mind, it can be portrayed that a Christian, who has been born again, can in fact be engaged in wickedness simply because they do not "believe that they have been made new."

Satan has convinced people to adopt a mindset that they can be "saved/set free" and at the same time be "unsaved/enslaved."

Salvation has been redefined, in their minds, to being some abstract concept or notion. This abstract concept or notion is premised purely on this invention of "Jesus paying the price owed" (which is not in the Bible).

Our old man is only dead in Christ if we have crucified the flesh in repentance whereby we no longer SERVE sin.

The sin service CEASES with the death of the old man. Ongoing sin service is proof positive that the old man was never put to death. There is nothing abstract about it.

Glad you are perfect but i'll depend on Jesus gift of righteousness instead of my own behavior.

 

[Skinski7]

Satan knows that repentance and faith are key in the reconciliation process, which is why repentance and faith have both been redefined.

Biblical Repentance = Change of mind necessitating a forsaking of all known wickedness. Repentance necessitates cessation of rebellion to God.

Redefined Repentance = Confession of sinfulness. Rebellion to God continues, one is just meant to feel bad about it.

Biblical Faith = Wholehearted trust and yielding to God. In other words FAITHFULNESS.]

Redefined Faith = Mere TRUST which is disconnected from any wholehearted yielding.


One of the most common false teachings in the false church system is the Penal Substitution view of the Atonement. This teaching teaches that Jesus effected a PROVISION on the cross whereby the "sin debt" of sinners was "paid in full" and is thus not deemed due anymore. Thus one has to do to be covered by this provision is TRUST that it is true.

People are compelled to "trust in Jesus" and therefore "trust in the provision" and thus "believe that they are a new creation in Christ" when NOTHING HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED. They STILL SERVE SIN and yet BELIEVE THEY ARE SAVED.

Genuine salvation involves being SAVED FROM SIN, or to put it another way, SAVED FROM SERVING SIN.

God doesn't only forgive past sins, God also puts people into a position where they no longer engage in activity which brings them under condemnation. The whole purpose of Jesus Christ coming to this planet was to rescue people from the bondage of sin whereby people could be reconciled to God in which their past sins are forgiven.

Jesus did not come to this planet to provide a cloak for ongoing wickedness. Modern Christianity promotes a cloak for ongoing wickedness and therefore this religion posing as Christianity is satanic to the core.

 

[Skinski7]

Glad you are prefect but i'll depend on Jesus gift of righteousness instead of my own behavior.

Snide quips don't change the facts.

The gift of righteousness is via GRACE THROUGH FAITH and that means one has to WALK VIA THE SPIRIT.

If one does not "work together with God" (ie. cooperate through yielding) then one is not made the righteousness of God in Him.

Jesus said "abide in me" and be a "hearer and doer." If you want reject that and respond with silly snide quips then that is on you.

 

[posthuman]

There is no disconnect between literal conduct and whom one is.

what's Romans 7 about?

 

[Skinski7]

Who does not fall???

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Anyone who is not a DOER will perish.

God leads and we MUST follow. A refusal to follow is rebellion and rebellion is death.

Sin Unto Death = Rebellion.

 

[Skinski7]

what's Romans 7 about?

Romans 7 is Paul giving a defense of the law to those whom know the law. The law was a good thing because it pointed people to righteousness. Yet when righteousness was rebelled against and one would serve unrighteousness then one was condemned via the same law (for the condemnation is a rejection of the light just as Jesus taught). Thus the law which brought life was found to be unto death. The law was not at fault but rather those whom chose to rebel against it.

Romans 7 is also a description of how the law cannot redeem someone from sin and death. Paul gives the example of a wretched man whom is carnal and sold under sin whom is under the conviction of the law, yet he cannot reform his behaviour.

Paul then goes on in Romans 8 and explains that it is the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ which sets us free from the law of sin and death. It is through abiding (WALKING) in the Spirit that we no longer serve sin and having been cleansed of our past sins we are no longer under condemnation.


The false teachers though deny the above and instead use Romans 7 to argue in favour of ongoing wickedness. They claim that a Christian is incapable ceasing from the service of evil and due to this the Gospel must be the mere PROVISION of a cloak for ongoing wickedness.

Paul wrote very plainly that we are servants to whom we obey, either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. So many professing Christian's want to believe that they can "serve sin unto life" simply because they "trust in a provision" they think Jesus provided by His death.

 

[shotgunner]

Okay, which is why I asked it in question form because I know of a lot on here that do not even read totally what another has posted and just continue to make the same baseless false allegations against them.

The bible however does make it clear that believers in Chris will not continue in willful deliberate habitual sin/s !!!

The sin everyday all day philosophy that is going around right now is a very bad teaching that in its own way condones sin, even if those who speak on it deny that is what they are saying.

Even Apostle Paul warned that we can not continue to sin since we are under grace, and told us what would happen if we do and it is not eternal life that we will receive.

I don't know about the sin all day long every day philosophy you speak of. I am a strong believer in grace but that's not what grace says or what is taught that I've heard.

Paul says " how can we who are dead to sin continue therein?" When you read it in the original language it's not an appeal for believers not to sin. It's a statement of ,"away with the thought", in response to the "shall we sin that grace may abound" question. It's a statement saying "How can you even think we who are dead to sin can continue in sin?" Paul is saying that it is an impossibility for a person who has had the kingship of sin replaced in his life by the kingship of grace to continue to sustain the same relationship to sin that he once had.

We aren't as far apart as you might think in our beliefs.

 

[psalm6819]

Snide quips don't change the facts.

The gift of righteousness is via GRACE THROUGH FAITH and that means one has to WALK VIA THE SPIRIT.

If one does not "work together with God" (ie. cooperate through yielding) then one is not made the righteousness of God in Him.

Jesus said "abide in me" and be a "hearer and doer." If you want reject that and respond with silly snide quips then that is on you.

I was not being snide, I'm sorry you didn't hear my tone of voice. I'm grateful to Jesus not myself.

 

[Skinski7]

Not viewing salvation as the free gift that it is, and realizing that what it does is give us a choice we didn't have before -- walking in the flesh (the only choice we had previously) vs. walking in the Spirit -- leads to the grave error of uncertainty of our salvation, thinking we must do something to "keep it," which is impossible. If we could "keep it" we could have "attained it" without Christ to begin with.

I am surprised that your mind somehow concludes such obvious foolishness.

A light bulb, in order to shine, must stay plugged into the power source. If we unscrew a light bulb and throw it on the floor it ceases to function. Even if the electricity and socket it plugs into are provided free of charge as a gift.

Likewise a Christian as to ABIDE in Jesus Christ, ABIDE in the Spirit of His life. That means we must WALK according to the Spirit. To rebel against the righteousness of Christ and walk according to the lusts of the flesh and serve evil is akin to unplugging ourselves from the socket and the electricity it provides.

We do have to DO something. Jesus even preached that we have to DO.

How is it possible that one can reject any notion of us having to DO? Such a rejection is a rejection of the very words of Jesus.

 

[Skinski7]

I don't know about the sin all day long every day philosophy you speak of. I am a strong believer in grace but that's not what grace says or what is taught that I've heard.

Paul says " how can we who are dead to sin continue therein?" When you read it in the original language it's not an appeal for believers not to sin. It's a statement of ,"away with the thought", in response to the "shall we sin that grace may abound" question. It's a statement saying "How can you even think we who are dead to sin can continue in sin?" Paul is saying that it is an impossibility for a person who has had the kingship of sin replaced in his life by the kingship of grace to continue to sustain the same relationship to sin that he once had.

It's not an appeal for people not to sin?

You have to throw reason out the window to conclude that.

Paul writes...

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Paul emphatically states that the service of sin CEASES.

Knowing this that our old man is crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed...... WHY???........ that from NOW ON WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.

In other words Paul is telling people that dying and being raised up with Jesus is for the express purpose of destroying the service of sin in our lives. If that is not clear enough Paul then continues...

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Let not sin therefore reign because we have died with Christ, instead we are to live unto God.Peter taught the same thing...1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Paul goes on...

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Remember Peter wrote...

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Paul goes on...

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Whom we yield to reveals whom we belong to. If that is the case what is this nonsense of one being saved or being a Christian while they continue to yield to sin?

You cannot sin and not surely die. The service of sin has to cease and Paul teaches the means of HOW to CEASE FROM SIN.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

A Christian WAS serving sin, a Christian was PREVIOUSLY serving sin. Not anymore. The Christian OBEYED FROM THE HEART THE DOCTRINE OF ACCORDING TO GODLINESS and instead became a SERVANT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Paul's words are so clear and yet people still want to argue in favour of being able to serve sin and yet be in Christ? Such an argument is completely absurd.

 

[KennethC]

I don't know about the sin all day long every day philosophy you speak of. I am a strong believer in grace but that's not what grace says or what is taught that I've heard.

Paul says " how can we who are dead to sin continue therein?" When you read it in the original language it's not an appeal for believers not to sin. It's a statement of ,"away with the thought", in response to the "shall we sin that grace may abound" question. It's a statement saying "How can you even think we who are dead to sin can continue in sin?" Paul is saying that it is an impossibility for a person who has had the kingship of sin replaced in his life by the kingship of grace to continue to sustain the same relationship to sin that he once had.

We aren't as far apart as you might think in our beliefs.

Well there has been a handful on here who have said they and we all will continue to sin every single day and even multiple times a day. And they say those who say they don't are liars and try to use 1 John 1:8-10 to support their view, but that passage is not condoning an everyday sinful behavior as they think.

The other thing they do is like Skinski7 mentioned is they try to say Romans 7 is Paul speaking on his current state in the faith, but they refuse to see how he calls himself carnally minded in 7 but then in Romans 8 shows he could not continue to be that way as that leads to eternal death.

We are not carnal and sold under sin when we are walking by the Spirit under grace !!!

 

[Skinski7]

It is the WORKERS OF INIQUITY that Jesus rejects.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



A "worker of iniquity" is simply someone who "obeys sin" instead of "obeying righteousness."

Paul made a comparison...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

We are servant to whom WE obey. We either obey...

Sin Unto Death or Obedience Unto Righteousness.

Sin Unto Death = Disobedience to Righteousness.


Who are the MANY Jesus is speaking about???

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These MANY call Jesus "Lord, Lord." These MANY claim to prophecy in His name. These MANY claim to cast out devils in His name. These MANY claim to have done many wonderful works in His name. Yet Jesus claims that they are WORKERS OF INIQUITY.

Jesus compares HEARERS AND DOERS to HEARERS AND NON-DOERS...

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

If yielding oneself to sin being a DOER? Of course not, it is rebellion. Yielding oneself to sin is to be a WORKER OF INIQUITY.


Where are we today? We live in a world where there are MANY professing Christian's who claim that to be "saved" all one has to do is "confess, trust and receive" and many of them are vehemently opposed to the idea that the service of sin must stop.

 

[Skinski7]

Glad you are perfect but i'll depend on Jesus gift of righteousness instead of my own behavior.

I was not being snide, I'm sorry you didn't hear my tone of voice. I'm grateful to Jesus not myself.

Your behaviour is what God is going to judge you on. In other words, what you DO matters.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

If you are a worker of iniquity who "trusts in Jesus" then you will be just one of the MANY who stand rejected by Jesus because you refused to actually repent of evil.

Claims to being "grateful to Jesus and not myself" are irrelevant as to what I was posting about. That is pure misdirection apparently wrought to avoid what I actually wrote. I am grateful to God.

 

[posthuman]

Romans 7 is Paul giving a defense of the law to those whom know the law. The law was a good thing because it pointed people to righteousness. Yet when righteousness was rebelled against and one would serve unrighteousness then one was condemned via the same law (for the condemnation is a rejection of the light just as Jesus taught). Thus the law which brought life was found to be unto death. The law was not at fault but rather those whom chose to rebel against it.

ok, yes, verses 7-13. this 'defense' or 'explanation' is needed because in 1-6 he explains that we have died to the law and been released from it, as if were a husband, in order to belong to another.
i don't think it's proper to say that it's 'those who chose to rebel against it' who are at fault - though that is certainly fault - but he is explaining to us that it is sin itself working in the carnal heart, even the hearts of those who outwardly accept & obey the law, that is more precisely 'at fault'

Romans 7 is also a description of how the law cannot redeem someone from sin and death. Paul gives the example of a wretched man whom is carnal and sold under sin whom is under the conviction of the law, yet he cannot reform his behaviour.

why do you think this is "an example of a wretched man" -- and not Paul himself? it is entirely in 1st person, with no indication at all in the text that he is speaking about a hypothetical person.
he carefully explains that it is not him, but sin within him which is at fault, and that there are two laws at work within him - a spiritual one and a carnal one. he does not distinguish this is two persons, but two natures, and concludes that he himself is a slave to God's law in spirit, but to the law of sin and death by the flesh (verse 25).

i don't see this talking about two people, or an hypothetical person, but very personally, about the apostle himself - and my impression is that he is explaining the basis of a disconnect between literal, corporeal conduct and who one is.

yes, he spends much effort encouraging us to bring our literal, corporeal conduct into line with the reality of our spiritual position in Christ!
and he would not do this if it was not necessary to do, presupposing that some may believe and be justified by their faith even while their actions do not reflect the righteousness that is imputed to them on the basis of faith. this misalignment is of course wrong!

Paul then goes on in Romans 8 and explains that it is the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ which sets us free from the law of sin and death. It is through abiding (WALKING) in the Spirit that we no longer serve sin and having been cleansed of our past sins we are no longer under condemnation.

it is through Christ that we are set free, that we have been set free, in order to walk in the Spirit.
our righteousness is by imputation, on the basis of faith - not works. by grace, not our obedience to law, this has occurred in us, and is imputed to us.
our works are to reflect who He already says that we are.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
(Romans 8:1-2)​

Christ has set you free - past tense.

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
(Romans 8:5)​

living according to the Spirit puts our minds in the right place. our souls are already kept by Him. you cannot live by the Spirit unless you are already set free - otherwise you are living by the law, seeking the Spirit.

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:9-10)​

though the body is subject to death because of sin, life is by the Spirit.
we have the Spirit by the graciousness of His gift - we were sealed with it when we first believed (Ephesians 1:13-14).
we don't need to go on anxiously in fear, hoping to achieve this seal by careful observation of a 'new law' -- but it was given to us, redeeming us, and impels us to obey through the renewing of our minds, bringing our actions into accord with His calling.
we must obey this - we cannot do anything else, because the old man is dead, crucified with Christ. we can prop it up and sit it in our kitchen, but it is a corpse, and stinks. we can't abide by it's presence any more.

The false teachers though deny the above and instead use Romans 7 to argue in favour of ongoing wickedness. They claim that a Christian is incapable ceasing from the service of evil and due to this the Gospel must be the mere PROVISION of a cloak for ongoing wickedness.

there are a lot of different kinds of false teachers.

i've never actually met anyone that argues in favor of ongoing wickedness.
i have heard hundreds of times this false accusation though.
glorying in God's grace is not tantamount to loving or continuing in sin.
has anyone here told you we should go on sinning? that there is no consequence?
but we need to understand our position in Christ, the result of His work in us, and our motivation to lead righteous lives properly.

Paul wrote very plainly that we are servants to whom we obey, either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. So many professing Christian's want to believe that they can "serve sin unto life" simply because they "trust in a provision" they think Jesus provided by His death.

i've never met a single professing Christian who desired to serve sin.
i've met plenty who confess their struggles against the flesh, and their hunger for righteousness.
where are these "so many" ??

 

[blondieindahouse]

Well there has been a handful on here who have said they and we all will continue to sin every single day and even multiple times a day. And they say those who say they don't are liars and try to use 1 John 1:8-10 to support their view, but that passage is not condoning an everyday sinful behavior as they think.

The other thing they do is like Skinski7 mentioned is they try to say Romans 7 is Paul speaking on his current state in the faith, but they refuse to see how he calls himself carnally minded in 7 but then in Romans 8 shows he could not continue to be that way as that leads to eternal death.

We are not carnal and sold under sin when we are walking by the Spirit under grace !!!

Even a thought exhibiting the contrary fruit is sin. Even if we are in the habit of taking our thoughts captive we still have bad thoughts. We still have thoughts that do not reflect the fruit of the spirit because we are not yet glorified. We are a work in progress. So yes, I sin daily. Not because I get up in the morning and set out to have bad thoughts but because I have a beating heart that gets its feeling hurt or still has hurt on my heart from the past. So therefore,I have a thought about the person that hurt me that isnt nice. It is sin. We ask the Lord to cleanse us and heal our hearts and this takes time and sometimes alot of time. When we feel like we have been wronged;its easy for satan to come in and inject thoughts and we fall for it. Noone is exempt from this right? Well, except our savior! He was sinless. He was perfect! That is why his righteousness is imputed upon us. That is what the Father sees when he looks at a saint who is striving for righteous and seeking holiness. The Father sees Christ' atonement.

I dont think these kinds of thread are a result of opposite thinking but a result of not saying it in a way so that others understand what we are thinking and also a mentality where people just want to be right no matter what. Im not naming names I am merely making an observation. That is mainly why I stay away for the most part from these kinds of threads. They are foolish back and forth

 

[posthuman]

Well there has been a handful on here who have said they and we all will continue to sin every single day and even multiple times a day. And they say those who say they don't are liars and try to use 1 John 1:8-10 to support their view, but that passage is not condoning an everyday sinful behavior as they think.

confessing sin ≠ condoning sin.

humility ≠ licentiousness.

self righteousness = sin.

to know Him, i cannot deceive myself any more than i can love sin.

 

[Skinski7]

i've never actually met anyone that argues in favor of ongoing wickedness.

Ok then, answer this.

Have genuine Christians ceased from the service of sin?

 

[slave]

Glad you are perfect but i'll depend on Jesus gift of righteousness instead of my own behavior.

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." Rom. 8:9.

Our true life is not intellect or morality or bodily eating and drinking; our true life is our relationship to Jesus Christ. If once we recognize that and take care to be identified with Him in the crisis of life, God will look after the rest. If we try to draw our inspiration from elsewhere we will die in the attempt.

God loves you more than the theory you have placed before you. He wants us to draw neigh to Him, not flee in an attempt to heal the hurt of self-awareness. God loves you. His Relationship will testify to that the closer you walk with and in Him. You will need to preach all the more sternly the gift of righteousness, if you do not walk with and in Him, for the pain of sin will still not have been touched.

 

[KennethC]

confessing sin ≠ condoning sin.

humility ≠ licentiousness.

self righteousness = sin.

to know Him, i cannot deceive myself any more than i can love sin.

The thing is that nowhere in the bible does it say or show you can commit adultery today confess it, commit that same adultery tomorrow confess it, commit it the next day and the next day and the next day.

It says in the words of Jesus you have to produce fruits kept with repentance, which means you turn away from committing those sins.

It is condoning sin if you believe you can continue to be sinful every single day after you are born again, that is a complete contradiction of what the scriptures says the Holy Spirit and His fruits are sent to us for. If you are walking in the Spirit there is absolutely no way you can sin, it is only when you are drawn away by your own lusts that you sin.