Is the Devil bound right now...?
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If I could read your mind we might be able to keep going. However, all those details are missing on which anyone could comment on.
I just gave the historical scriptural/theological facts that Christ bound Satan. The why and the how and when.
All we have from you is that Christ bound Satan but nothing about your understanding of that binding. What did it accomplish? How does it relate to our salvation? The lone text you are using, Heb 2:15 and your translation does not agree with the rest of scripture. You have not even shown any explanation as to just how Christ's death could even bind Satan.
You have a mere assertion with no supporting evidence or explanation.
This is wholly a fabrication on your part with no evidence to support it. Which is why you cannot even give someone else's idea for support.
Here is a question that you need to consider based on your view. IF Christ's death of itself bound Satan, would Satan have been bound if Jesus had been killed by Herod as a two year old?
Also, if the killing of Jesus was Satan's effort of bruising His heel as stated in Gen 3:15, just how does Jesus bruise his head?
I hope you are diligently working on your answer, since we are all waiting so we can at least discuss it.
I just gave the historical scriptural/theological facts that Christ bound Satan. The why and the how and when.
All we have from you is that Christ bound Satan but nothing about your understanding of that binding. What did it accomplish? How does it relate to our salvation? The lone text you are using, Heb 2:15 and your translation does not agree with the rest of scripture. You have not even shown any explanation as to just how Christ's death could even bind Satan.
You have a mere assertion with no supporting evidence or explanation.
This is wholly a fabrication on your part with no evidence to support it. Which is why you cannot even give someone else's idea for support.
Here is a question that you need to consider based on your view. IF Christ's death of itself bound Satan, would Satan have been bound if Jesus had been killed by Herod as a two year old?
Also, if the killing of Jesus was Satan's effort of bruising His heel as stated in Gen 3:15, just how does Jesus bruise his head?
I hope you are diligently working on your answer, since we are all waiting so we can at least discuss it.
L
I disagree with the Dispensationalists on most of these topics,
but on this,
how can one possibly believe that Satan was not an influence in WW2, the Holocaust, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the persecution from Nero, the current US public education curriculum, modern media, the persecution from ISIS, etc...
If the Apostles warned us of the Enemy prowling about like a lion seeking to devour,
why do we question them? He remains, an obviously unbound as of yet.
Things have gotten worse, not better, since the Church was established.
If Satan was bound around the time that the Church was established,
then why have things gotten worse, and why are things prophesied to continue worsening?
Is the Church itself worse than Satan ever was?! Come on! Get real.
The Binding is yet to come.
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are not in line with the Truth of Scripture on this.
but on this,
how can one possibly believe that Satan was not an influence in WW2, the Holocaust, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the persecution from Nero, the current US public education curriculum, modern media, the persecution from ISIS, etc...
If the Apostles warned us of the Enemy prowling about like a lion seeking to devour,
why do we question them? He remains, an obviously unbound as of yet.
Things have gotten worse, not better, since the Church was established.
If Satan was bound around the time that the Church was established,
then why have things gotten worse, and why are things prophesied to continue worsening?
Is the Church itself worse than Satan ever was?! Come on! Get real.
The Binding is yet to come.
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are not in line with the Truth of Scripture on this.
Once again, total misunderstanding. The question of whether Satan is bound has absolutely nothing to do with his existence or his efforts in bringing evil in this world.
If it is actually about his effectiveness and presence then Satan will never bound since the next time Christ's comes, it is the end of time as we know it. Satan will be thrown into the fire.
It seems to be the same ole' results of not understanding the fall, Christ's redemption from that fall. The scripture is very clear that Christ came to defeat Satan and death. What do you think Christ did the first time He came?
For all of his "hot air" Bouman has taken a good text to show that Satan was bound by Christ. He just does not understand the why, and how. He never formulated a theory that goes with his translation. As all sola scripturist need to do is disregard the rest of scripture in order to boost their own ideas about just one verse or supposedly new theory. Bouman has yet to develop his theory.
Since you have taken the line that Satan is NOT bound, and death has not yet been defeated, just when is this going to take place? Give the how, and when?
If it is actually about his effectiveness and presence then Satan will never bound since the next time Christ's comes, it is the end of time as we know it. Satan will be thrown into the fire.
It seems to be the same ole' results of not understanding the fall, Christ's redemption from that fall. The scripture is very clear that Christ came to defeat Satan and death. What do you think Christ did the first time He came?
For all of his "hot air" Bouman has taken a good text to show that Satan was bound by Christ. He just does not understand the why, and how. He never formulated a theory that goes with his translation. As all sola scripturist need to do is disregard the rest of scripture in order to boost their own ideas about just one verse or supposedly new theory. Bouman has yet to develop his theory.
Since you have taken the line that Satan is NOT bound, and death has not yet been defeated, just when is this going to take place? Give the how, and when?
K
K
Well he is not currently bound in the pit of hell for if he was then there would be a 1,000 years time of peace with the Lord ruling all the nations. His millennial reign !!!
The way he is bound now is only by using the word of God to not effect our lives, but he still walks around and influences others who are not in the faith and even comes after others who are in the faith to draw them away.
The way he is bound now is only by using the word of God to not effect our lives, but he still walks around and influences others who are not in the faith and even comes after others who are in the faith to draw them away.
It is very difficult to put all the man made theories into a generality. But if the predispensationalist need yet another kingdom and one where Christ rules on this earth it would require His coming back to earth. He would also need to leave this earth so that He can actually come as scripture describes His Second coming to end time, of the resurrection of all and the judgment.
As for the thousand years it is not about literal time nor about a time when there will be no war among nations. Your missing the whole gospel message of why Christ came and what He accomplished.
Since you disagree with scripture, why not point out when you think Christ will come again to defeat death and bind Satan as scripture clearly states.
As for the thousand years it is not about literal time nor about a time when there will be no war among nations. Your missing the whole gospel message of why Christ came and what He accomplished.
Since you disagree with scripture, why not point out when you think Christ will come again to defeat death and bind Satan as scripture clearly states.
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L
Just as Christ says in John 16, that He has overcome the world, PRIOR to the Cross,
And in chapter 17, He goes on to say that His work IS (present tense) accomplished. And even that He is "no longer in the world"... yet He is still in the room with them.
The future is completed in the eyes of God, because He is always faithful, and has predestined it to be so.
The Victory is complete, because it is fully assured. Though in our finite viewpoint based on time, it is not yet come.
Satan is loose upon the earth, therefore not bound.
People still die, so therefore death is still in power.
The wheels of Victory have been set in motion, and are unstoppable,
and in this we can claim it, and in this it IS complete.
But the evidence is not made manifest, because we are still attached to fleshly bodies that are bound to the linear dimension of TIME.
When He Returns, these things will be made manifest. His Return is assured, and is as good as done.
Is Satan bound, or loose? Can he be both!?
Is death defeated, or still overpowering everyone who has been born once of flesh?
There is Victory over it's permanence, because He WILL Return.
These things are future to the eyes of mankind,
but can be claimed NOW by the Spirit, because God is Spirit, and not bound by time. To Him, and to those in the Spirit, it is finished!
When the end of a game seems inevitable, people say "it's over", even though it's not technically over.
In most cases, there is still a chance for a "comeback", but God is on the field: there is no comeback possible.
This is the way Jesus speaks in the latter chapters of John, and the way that those in the Spirit speak. The future is already complete.
And in chapter 17, He goes on to say that His work IS (present tense) accomplished. And even that He is "no longer in the world"... yet He is still in the room with them.
The future is completed in the eyes of God, because He is always faithful, and has predestined it to be so.
The Victory is complete, because it is fully assured. Though in our finite viewpoint based on time, it is not yet come.
Satan is loose upon the earth, therefore not bound.
People still die, so therefore death is still in power.
The wheels of Victory have been set in motion, and are unstoppable,
and in this we can claim it, and in this it IS complete.
But the evidence is not made manifest, because we are still attached to fleshly bodies that are bound to the linear dimension of TIME.
When He Returns, these things will be made manifest. His Return is assured, and is as good as done.
Is Satan bound, or loose? Can he be both!?
Is death defeated, or still overpowering everyone who has been born once of flesh?
There is Victory over it's permanence, because He WILL Return.
These things are future to the eyes of mankind,
but can be claimed NOW by the Spirit, because God is Spirit, and not bound by time. To Him, and to those in the Spirit, it is finished!
When the end of a game seems inevitable, people say "it's over", even though it's not technically over.
In most cases, there is still a chance for a "comeback", but God is on the field: there is no comeback possible.
This is the way Jesus speaks in the latter chapters of John, and the way that those in the Spirit speak. The future is already complete.
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LT,
Some of what you say is true, but not because you understand the topic of Satan being bound.
Again Satan being loose and active has nothing to do with the "binding of Satan". To understand one must go back to the beginning, the fall of man. When Adam sinned God permitted Satan to have dominion over man. Man became mortal. Death is the consequence of Adam's sin. Man and the world would be dissolved through death. This is stated very clearly in Gen 3:19. Based on that condemnation there is no eternal life. Man lost his eternal existence. He would live a short biological life, die and return to dust. Man was not created eternal but was created to attain eternal life with God.
Thus death becomes the fate of God's creation. God knew and had a plan already set in motion. He had permitted Satan to dominate man through his nature. Man is created from the dust of the earth thus the world itself is inherent within man's nature. That is why the world itself suffered death as well as man.
One other thing to understand is that we sin through our mortal nature. Thus death is the primary part of man's existence, not sin. Sin is secondary. I Cor 15:56 states this clearly as well. The sting of death is sin. We sin because we are mortal beings. Thus man was held captive by Satan through death. Sin resulted because of death, or mortal nature.
Now, lets take a look at Christ. Why did He need to become Incarnated. First and foremost He needed to become exactly as we are in our human nature in order to restore our human nature from death to life, from mortal to immortal. Without overcomeing death, we are all condemned to die and return to dust permanently. As Heb 2:14-17 states, Christ came to defeat Satan and overcome his power of death. The ONLY thing that will overcome death is life, an eternal existence. By Christ's resurrection Christ defeats death, gives life to the world. This is supported by Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22, I Cor 15:52-54, II Tim 1:10, as well as Heb 2:9.
I have already cited the gospels references to Jesus binding the strong man in his house. Scripture states that Crhist decended into Hades and took those who where held captive by death.
Christ did not change our human natures for this life. We still have our mortal human natures and we all will die once. The purpose as Paul states is to rid this body of sin. Sin dies with our mortal bodies. All of mankind will be raised immortal and incorruptibe at the resurrection, at Christ's second coming. I Cor 15:52-53 and Rev 20:13.
Satan is bound in that He no longer has dominion over man through death. Not a single human being will be lost and not be raised to life. John 6:39. How could Christ miss any when He assumed our human natures and gave life to all. It is all consummated in the eschotan, but we can live in this world knowing we have a purpose to living, that we can, if we desire to do so, live in union with Christ now as well as eternity.
Satan may have lost his power of death, but he still can do all the things he did before. In fact, his existence and work against us is a test of our faith and commitment to Christ. Adam had that same test, he failed. We have the same test, the question is will we fail or abide with Christ.
What is over is the fall of man. No man is being held by Satan through death. Christ gave life to the world, so that every human being could be free to either reject Him or be united with Him. We have all been freed from the bondage to death and sin. It is your choice now. You cannot blame Adam, Satan or anyone else. Whether you end up in hell or heaven is completely within your power/choice.
Some of what you say is true, but not because you understand the topic of Satan being bound.
Again Satan being loose and active has nothing to do with the "binding of Satan". To understand one must go back to the beginning, the fall of man. When Adam sinned God permitted Satan to have dominion over man. Man became mortal. Death is the consequence of Adam's sin. Man and the world would be dissolved through death. This is stated very clearly in Gen 3:19. Based on that condemnation there is no eternal life. Man lost his eternal existence. He would live a short biological life, die and return to dust. Man was not created eternal but was created to attain eternal life with God.
Thus death becomes the fate of God's creation. God knew and had a plan already set in motion. He had permitted Satan to dominate man through his nature. Man is created from the dust of the earth thus the world itself is inherent within man's nature. That is why the world itself suffered death as well as man.
One other thing to understand is that we sin through our mortal nature. Thus death is the primary part of man's existence, not sin. Sin is secondary. I Cor 15:56 states this clearly as well. The sting of death is sin. We sin because we are mortal beings. Thus man was held captive by Satan through death. Sin resulted because of death, or mortal nature.
Now, lets take a look at Christ. Why did He need to become Incarnated. First and foremost He needed to become exactly as we are in our human nature in order to restore our human nature from death to life, from mortal to immortal. Without overcomeing death, we are all condemned to die and return to dust permanently. As Heb 2:14-17 states, Christ came to defeat Satan and overcome his power of death. The ONLY thing that will overcome death is life, an eternal existence. By Christ's resurrection Christ defeats death, gives life to the world. This is supported by Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22, I Cor 15:52-54, II Tim 1:10, as well as Heb 2:9.
I have already cited the gospels references to Jesus binding the strong man in his house. Scripture states that Crhist decended into Hades and took those who where held captive by death.
Christ did not change our human natures for this life. We still have our mortal human natures and we all will die once. The purpose as Paul states is to rid this body of sin. Sin dies with our mortal bodies. All of mankind will be raised immortal and incorruptibe at the resurrection, at Christ's second coming. I Cor 15:52-53 and Rev 20:13.
Satan is bound in that He no longer has dominion over man through death. Not a single human being will be lost and not be raised to life. John 6:39. How could Christ miss any when He assumed our human natures and gave life to all. It is all consummated in the eschotan, but we can live in this world knowing we have a purpose to living, that we can, if we desire to do so, live in union with Christ now as well as eternity.
Satan may have lost his power of death, but he still can do all the things he did before. In fact, his existence and work against us is a test of our faith and commitment to Christ. Adam had that same test, he failed. We have the same test, the question is will we fail or abide with Christ.
What is over is the fall of man. No man is being held by Satan through death. Christ gave life to the world, so that every human being could be free to either reject Him or be united with Him. We have all been freed from the bondage to death and sin. It is your choice now. You cannot blame Adam, Satan or anyone else. Whether you end up in hell or heaven is completely within your power/choice.
L
First: No. Death doesn't cause sin. Death is the WAGE of sin.
Death is the result. It is secondary.
Second, Satan is not the Prince of Death. He never "held" anyone "through death".
Death is outside of Satan's jurisdiction.
He's a liar, and the Enemy, and holds a false authority in THIS world,
but his role and ability are towards the living.
Death is not submissive to Satan.
Are you confusing Greek mythology with Scripture?
Death is the result. It is secondary.
Second, Satan is not the Prince of Death. He never "held" anyone "through death".
Death is outside of Satan's jurisdiction.
He's a liar, and the Enemy, and holds a false authority in THIS world,
but his role and ability are towards the living.
Death is not submissive to Satan.
Are you confusing Greek mythology with Scripture?
LT,
You are mixing the two kinds of death. Sin brings spritual death. Man can no longer suffer physical death as a judgement as did Adam.
Read I Cor 15:56 very carefully. The sting of death is sin. We sin because we are mortal beings. Unless you can show from scripture that those that sin will suffer condemnation of physical death again, as did Adam.
Apparently you have a much different understanding of the fall, the condemnation of death to mankind through Adam, and that Christ came to destroy death, the power of Satan. Read the scriptural citations I gave, it clearly and categorically disagrees with your statement.
If you want to state that our physical deaths are caused by sin you would be correct. Every disease and infirmity we suffer is the result of sin in this world. If physical death is the result of sin, as in condemnation, you would have died at the first sin you committed. Your theology does not fit reality.
If you object to what scripture has always taught regarding the fall, the redemption from the fall by Christ, and the topic of the binding of Satan, then what is your understanding, based on scripture. You will need to show that death, our mortality was not passed down from Adam through our human nature. You need to show that Christ came for other reasons than to redeem mankind from the fall. Since scripture states that Christ bound Satan, then you need to show the when, where, how and why of that binding.
I have yet to see any explanation in this entire thread. Bouman the OP originator does not have any answers either.
You are mixing the two kinds of death. Sin brings spritual death. Man can no longer suffer physical death as a judgement as did Adam.
Read I Cor 15:56 very carefully. The sting of death is sin. We sin because we are mortal beings. Unless you can show from scripture that those that sin will suffer condemnation of physical death again, as did Adam.
Apparently you have a much different understanding of the fall, the condemnation of death to mankind through Adam, and that Christ came to destroy death, the power of Satan. Read the scriptural citations I gave, it clearly and categorically disagrees with your statement.
If you want to state that our physical deaths are caused by sin you would be correct. Every disease and infirmity we suffer is the result of sin in this world. If physical death is the result of sin, as in condemnation, you would have died at the first sin you committed. Your theology does not fit reality.
If you object to what scripture has always taught regarding the fall, the redemption from the fall by Christ, and the topic of the binding of Satan, then what is your understanding, based on scripture. You will need to show that death, our mortality was not passed down from Adam through our human nature. You need to show that Christ came for other reasons than to redeem mankind from the fall. Since scripture states that Christ bound Satan, then you need to show the when, where, how and why of that binding.
I have yet to see any explanation in this entire thread. Bouman the OP originator does not have any answers either.
P
I'm sorry I just don't see it as his first coming. Second yes first no. Paul talks about a tanner I think he turns over to Satan....There is so any things against your theory we would need to call paul, Peter, john, and so much a liar...It just doesn't fit. Have to agree to disagree. You can let down your guard if you want.. as for me Satan is alive and loose on the planet earth.
Greater is he that is in me than he of the world.
Greater is he that is in me than he of the world.