To comfort those who speak in tongues

[Gr8grace]

right...and that is the best excuse to offer God when He asks you why you just stood on the sidelines and criticized

Let's have a look at that list


1. God probably won't bless you. why? are you living in sin?

2.your Christian walk is "dry" that could be true actually

3.you can't really live or witness for Him. that is not true either as we already have the Holy Spirit when we become believers

4.you are hostile. the cessationists responding in this thread are sometimes abusive, never mind hostile and not only that, at least one of them, tries to make it seem it is the one they are responding to...they think that by pretending to be nice their bite might be less but we have teeth marks

5.you love the praises of men. well do you? some certainly do...the Bible even says so! but to be fair, so do many exhibitionists in the other camp...I don't agree with them either!

6.you are fulfilling your pride and ego. not everyone...just the ones who brag they know more than anyone else

7.you want a cheering section. well it does help, don't you think?

8. you are spiritless. oh you're making that one up..never seen that one...besides the Bible says otherwise

9 you have separated the Spirit from the bible. uh....no one can do that...please check your wording...I think you have it wrong

10. you are basically impotent. see a doctor...they may be able to help

I garnered my whole list just from your post.......read it closer.


#8~~You are spiritless(Non tongues people,who teach)

From Ember~~Perhaps this may explain the hostility of those who fancy themselves teachers because they love the praises of men and so fullfill their pride and ego with a cheering section ordained by others as spiritless as themselvs


My #8. you are spiritless. Ember~~"oh you're making that one up..never seen that one...besides the Bible says otherwise"

 

[ember]

You either don't know or you don't care.

Tongues are for a sign to unsaved Jews. What do you suppose unsaved Gentiles think? Scripture says they will think everybody is crazy. In todays modern tongues church that is not far from the truth.

Souls are always at stake. Do not scatter the flock.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

oh give it up

how many have you brought to Christ? anyone?

you don't know what you are talking about

this is not a flock...it's a forum...

the only time I ever see you post is if you think you can berate someone...NEVER ANYTHING uplifting or encouraging in ANY thread not just this one

NEVER...

 

[ember]

I garnered my whole list just from your post.......read it closer.


#8~~You are spiritless(Non tongues people,who teach)

From Ember~~Perhaps this may explain the hostility of those who fancy themselves teachers because they love the praises of men and so fullfill their pride and ego with a cheering section ordained by others as spiritless as themselvs


My #8. you are spiritless. Ember~~"oh you're making that one up..never seen that one...besides the Bible says otherwise"

duh...and I stand by those words!!! the Holy Spirit draws people to Christ...not a Greek texbook...what's the matter with you all?

I have lots of spirit...people like you cannot put it out...God has given me a pretty decent share of His own and I am just a spirited person by nature

insults are about the only thing you have folks have left, eh?

you should remember, you are insulting another believer...God does not like that

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

I am not surprised any more at the lengths people will go to in order to disguise their unbelief!

Calling proper biblical exegesis "unbelief" is the cry of a heretic, in my opinion.

The point is,
if Greek is not your first language you will need to depend on man's interpretation and/or translation in order to figure out what is being said, and also the cultural nuances of the time etc.... and thus what the scriptures mean....and if you are learning it yourself there is a large margin for error.

One, I learned it in Bible college, so you needed fret about there being "a large margin for error." Two, I guess you don't any dictionaries, either, it being too risky to use in order to define a word for fear of "a large margin for error."

Why not instead depend on the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth of the Word?

I do, all the time. The thing us, unlike you, I also use other, more reliable sources other than myself to discern what the Spirit is telling me. You seem to think the only Source you need is the Holy Spirit, which is true only if you know absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what you "hear" from Him lines up with biblical truth.

Read this next part carefully: Your "signs-and-wonders doctrines" are a manmade teaching that sprinkles bad theology, poor exegesis, nearly no historical or lexical context with a very small bit of truth that leads to huge error on the part of your pastors, and your fellow practioners. You are not "spiritual discerning" but self-discerning. Therein lies the different in how I know the Holy Spirit, and you abuse whatever relationship you might hope to have with Him.

If you are born again you have no need to go language shopping anywhere. The English is right in front of you in the scholarly and scrupulously translated versions we have access to today, and if you are born again, the Holy Spirit will teach you what these things all mean that you read in there.

Really? I guess someone tore these verses out of your Bible, hm?

2 Timothy 2, NASB
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

Titus 2
1 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.

Jude
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly [i.e., fight diligently] for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.​

Your doctrine, my friend, is not sound. Sound doctrine leads to life.

1 Timothy 4
16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.​

Sound doctrine is too easily left unrecognizable in our own "wisdom." The reason Paul and the other apostles constantly urge sitting under strong teaching, sound doctrine, listening to true teachers who are students of the Gospel, rather than just saying, "Rely on the Holy Spirit. He'll tell you everything you need to know," is because, without those solidly biblical teachings, which include a knowledge of the original languages, the culture and history the the times associated with the Gospel writers, the Old Testament ties to the new revelation of Christ, you will be easily misled, or you will mislead yourself, thinking your own thoughts are "the voice of God."

I will say again, you cannot teach what does not come by the Holy Spirit.

The word of God comes from the Holy Spirit. You would have us go directly to the source when the great risk -- as evident in your own misguided beliefs -- is that you will not "hear" God, but something else, be it the imaginings of man, or the doctrine of demons, who work tirelessly to distract us from the Gospel of faith through grace with bells and whistles like "gifts" of tongues, healings, and even claims of resurrections.

1 Thessalonians 5
21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;
22 abstain from every form of evil.​

"Examine everything." Don't take your own thoughts as "evidence" of anything. Make certain what you think about a passage, a belief, a doctrine, can be biblically supported. Your's can't be supported from the Bible, no matter how many verses (taken out of context) you think you can quote to me. And you need to realize that warning isn't given by Paul out of the blue. It is obvious from the context that the Thessolonicans were dealing with similar, though not as severe, issues as the off-the-wall Corinthians and their man-based practices.

1 Thessalonians 5
12 But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction,
13 and that you esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Live in peace with one another.
14 We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone.
15 See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people.
16 Rejoice always;
17 pray without ceasing;
18 in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
19 Do not quench the Spirit;
20 do not despise prophetic utterances.​

Paul even warns against "despising prophetic utterances" there, the canon of the Bible not being fully written at the time, but notice he doesn't say a thing about tongues or the other temporary "signs-and-wonders" gifts.

If you teach something the Holy Spirit didn't give you, it is just the religious flesh, and will help no one.

1 Cor 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,



but the spirit which is of God;


that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,

but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;

comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:

for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You totally ignore context here, again cherry-picking verses to "prove" and unprovable point. Paul isn't speaking of the Spirit revealing "everything you ever needed to know about God and how He works." He is talking about the Spirit helping us receive as truth the sound doctrine of biblical teaching! He isn't talking about the Spirit "zapping us" with wisdom, but of mature Christians received the wisdom of God through sound teachers.

1 Corinthains 2
3 I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling,
4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;
7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;​

Paul is speaking to you. He is saying, "Grow up!" Be mature in Christ so you can receive the meat of the Gospel and not be distracted and needlessly entertained by sideshows run by false teachers and demons.

 

[ember]

I garnered my whole list just from your post.......read it closer.


#8~~You are spiritless(Non tongues people,who teach)

From Ember~~Perhaps this may explain the hostility of those who fancy themselves teachers because they love the praises of men and so fullfill their pride and ego with a cheering section ordained by others as spiritless as themselvs


My #8. you are spiritless. Ember~~"oh you're making that one up..never seen that one...besides the Bible says otherwise"

you are taking my words out of context

if you refuse the gifts, then you are indeed spiritless because it is God who give them...BY HIS SPIRIT

now tell me that is not in the Bible or perhaps the Greek means something else?

you are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a believer...but that will be all if you refuse the Lord or allow Him to give you more

Please don't say I said believers do not have the Holy Spirit if they don't speak in tongues becaue that would be a lie so please do not say that

 

[ember]

Calling proper biblical exegesis "unbelief" is the cry of a heretic, in my opinion.

calling 'proper' exegesis...which varies from church to church from person to person and country to country and language to language YOUR territory alone, is beyond the pale

just saying

believe me, no one here believes it more important to know the Word then I do, BUT that results in me realizing, that JESUS CHRIST is alive and is not hiding behind someone's proper exegesis nor is he waiting for YOU to straighten out those of us who disagree with your opinion

denying the Holy Spirit and condemning those who speak in tongues may well be blasphemy IMO, so no worries on your heretic accusation which so many of you seem to label others with in this forum

 

[Gr8grace]

duh...and I stand by those words!!! the Holy Spirit draws people to Christ...not a Greek texbook...what's the matter with you all?

I have lots of spirit...people like you cannot put it out...God has given me a pretty decent share of His own and I am just a spirited person by nature

insults are about the only thing you have folks have left, eh?

you should remember, you are insulting another believer...God does not like that

I don't take one word that you have said to me as an insult. How Did I insult you?

Just by pointing things out and trying to get a point across?

~~~~~~~~~~~~Just more proof that tongues have ceased, and people are deceived. This subject wouldn't bring the division and strife it does if tongues were valid for today.

 

[convallaria]

Classic example of nonsense. Here you are a person who claims tongues are active going about to disparage another tongue. Greek is a tongue other than your native tongue.

Simply a case of your golden calf moaning because it's toes were stepped on by the truth.

Seems I can hear the Apostle Paul right now saying that this is why he told the church not to allow a woman to teach or have authority over men. Simply carried away with every wind of doctrine. Sorry ladies but there are some who are of the spirit of Jezebel. Guess that's why Proverbs is so strong in its praise for the virtuous woman.

There is no nobility in any belief no matter how ardently held if it contradicts Gods word. The spirit of Babylon is active in the church today. Nimrods spirit is leading multitudes away from God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wow that was really really nasty! Perish the thought...that it would be NONSENSE to rely on the Holy Spirit????? Dear me. Do you realise what you are saying?

 

[ember]

Anyone would think that those of us who speak and pray in tongues (because most of us actually pray...we do not babble and cry out in church like you try to make it seem) are denying Christ and telling others to do the same

You simply cannot and will not EVER stop the Holy Spirit...do you have a plan to go into other countries and preach your brand of cessationism?

IMO, it is such a sad attempt at trying to believe you have all your ducks lined up...NONE of us do...we ALL see through a glass darkly

It is vanity IMO, to continue to besmirch those who speak in tongues...yuh know? just stay home and don't go to a church like that...I promise you, I won't be going to yours

Do I still think you are all saved? yes...probably most...not all...are saved...God is the judge, but your words reveal lack of real concern for other believers when you cry heretic and all the other labels

It's childish and really kind of pitiful and does not at all give you one up because you are not in the position to judge...only GOD is

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

calling 'proper' exegesis...which varies from church to church from person to person and country to country and language to language YOUR territory alone, is beyond the pale

just saying

believe me, no one here believes it more important to know the Word then I do, BUT that results in me realizing, that JESUS CHRIST is alive and is not hiding behind someone's proper exegesis nor is he waiting for YOU to straighten out those of us who disagree with your opinion

denying the Holy Spirit and condemning those who speak in tongues may well be blasphemy IMO, so no worries on your heretic accusation which so many of you seem to label others with in this forum

He's not condemning anyone -- he's challenging us, and those who cling to tongue-speaking.

In my opinion, you are now participating in that which you are speaking against.

 

[ember]

I don't take one word that you have said to me as an insult. How Did I insult you?

Just by pointing things out and trying to get a point across?

~~~~~~~~~~~~Just more proof that tongues have ceased, and people are deceived. This subject wouldn't bring the division and strife it does if tongues were valid for today.

you are spiritless. Ember~~ hurtful more than insulting actually

oh this thread is proof that NO ONES tongue has ceased LOL!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Wow that was really really nasty! Perish the thought...that it would be NONSENSE to rely on the Holy Spirit????? Dear me. Do you realise what you are saying?

The nonsense he was referring to is minimizing biblical interpretation while defending tongue-speaking.

 

[notuptome]

oh give it up

how many have you brought to Christ? anyone?

you don't know what you are talking about

this is not a flock...it's a forum...

the only time I ever see you post is if you think you can berate someone...NEVER ANYTHING uplifting or encouraging in ANY thread not just this one

NEVER...

Now the depth of your theology is showing.

1 Corinthians 14:21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

You have no idea who might be reading your posts. Lots of lurkers on the forums. A little compassion for them might be nice.

Eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear. Hearts that have grown gross and no longer able to respond to the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ember]

He's not condemning anyone -- he's challenging us, and those who cling to tongue-speaking.

In my opinion, you are now participating in that which you are speaking against.

uh...not

I have had words with him in other threads that have nothing to do with tongues...he is swift to get less than nice

if you agree? well then it's all peaches 'n cream

what is not understood, is that we love the Lord...we LOVE Him and we regard what is being done as tearing Him apart...His Spirit is not a thing to conduct proper biblical exegesis with! He is the third PERSON of the Trinity !

 

[ember]

Now the depth of your theology is showing.

1 Corinthians 14:21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

You have no idea who might be reading your posts. Lots of lurkers on the forums. A little compassion for them might be nice.

Eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear. Hearts that have grown gross and no longer able to respond to the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger, I am sorry, but I really do not take anything you write to me seriously.

peace...God love you and all, but it's enough

I have addressed literally thousands of folk Roger and been asked for more, so no worries...people generally appreciate and like me

if you met me in person you would probably have a high regard for me because I am anything but weird or anything but stupid or ignorant

I guess you will have to take my word for it...but I'm done getting back to you in this thread

cheers

 

[convallaria]

Sneering is such a loathsome term for you to use.

Tell me when a surgeon cuts out a cancer is it unkind or necessary? The pain is it to be avoided and the patient perish or endured that the patient might have a high quality of life?

It may be blunt but when finesse fails then only bluntness remains. Souls are at stake and the enemy is crafty and sly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For Ember...(hi BTW) what he is doing here, I found out, is called "projecting"...and emotional abusers are good at it. He changed the problem from himself to you....rather than see that he is behaving badly, as you and others rightly identified, he makes it your fault for raising the issue. He says it is YOU who are being loathsome when it is he, and he hopes this ploy will throw others off the scent.

 

[convallaria]

What do you mean by this? You do realize what it looks like right?.........."your not saved"

Am I wrong?

Among the saved, all have a measure of unbelief...some more than others, evidently.

 

[ember]

Some reflecting right now might be a good thing

1The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.2He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[SUP]a[/SUP]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

5You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.

 

[notuptome]

Wow that was really really nasty! Perish the thought...that it would be NONSENSE to rely on the Holy Spirit????? Dear me. Do you realise what you are saying?

I am saying that the Holy Spirit only guides from within the bible and not personal feelings.

You dismiss the more noble Bereans for their study of Gods word. Imposing your opinions over circumspect study of the scriptures.

It matters not how strongly you feel about something if it is in contradiction to the teaching of Gods word it is not of God.

Dear you indeed. The trajectory of your theology can only end in disaster.

Listen to what the word of God teaches and when you need deeper understanding consult the original languages. There are many easy to use concordances and Greek interlinear lexicons many are free on line.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

what is not understood, is that we love the Lord...we LOVE Him and we regard what is being done as tearing Him apart...His Spirit is not a thing to conduct proper biblical exegesis with! He is the third PERSON of the Trinity !

[h=1]2 Timothy 3:16[/h]16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,