Who is GOD.......?

[shad]

The trinity or Godhead is three distinct persons that make up one essence. They are the same in nature and they are one. They have different functions and operations that accomplish one purpose. They all work as one Godhead and are inseparable. They never disagree and are indivisible. They are eternal, they are co-equal and express one God who is above all and created all things in heaven and in earth. The were not created and can not be destroyed.

Take salvation as an example of their distinct persons and their oneness to operate and accomplish the work and eternal purpose of salvation.

- God the Father planned it

- God the Son executed the plan,

- God the Holy Spirit reveals it to the heart of man

We agree and believe that God created us in his image / Gen 1:26,27. Right? In verse (26) He did say let 'us' create man in 'our' image, after 'our' likeness. There are (2) plural pronouns meaning more than one is being referred to. I would like to add that God could not be referring to the angels when He used these plural pronouns because angels were created as a host of ministering spirits and flames of fire / Heb 1:7 and Christ was made better than the angels being made in the 'express image of His person' / Heb 1:3, referring to the image of the Father. This express image is not a copy or likeness or a clone, but the same exact image, impress and essence because He came from God the Father /Jn 16:27,28. This is why Jesus said, If you have seen me you have seen the Father / Jn 14:9.

Man was made in the image and likeness of God. Man was fashioned after the pattern of the heavenly. Man has a spirit, soul and body and is a trichotomy / 1Thes 5:23, just as the trinity and Godhead is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The public record that established the existence of the trinity and Godhead was witnessed on the earth at the baptism of Jesus Christ.

Mt 3:16,17 And when Jesus was baptized, He went up at once out of the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he [John] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on Him. 17 And behold, a voice from heaven said, This is My Son, My Beloved, in Whom I delight!

We have the Son present on the earth in bodily form, the Spirit descends from heaven in a bodily shape upon the Son (Lk 3:22) and the voice of the Father spoke from heaven testifying that it was His Son whom He was well pleased. All the people that were also baptized witnessed all three persons of the Godhead participating in this act of righteousness by our Lord Jesus Christ/ Lk 3:21.

This was the beginning of the record that was made concerning the Godhead. There is more.

 

[VW]

WHAT DID JESUS DO TO OTHERS AND HIS DISCIPLES
THAT HE PREACHED FOR US TO DO...?

TO SERVE

GOD's SPOKEN WORD LAYS HIS LIFE DOWN
BECAUSE
THE WORD OF GOD SERVES THE ONE WHO SPOKE HIM INTO EXISTENCE

Actually, to love. Jesus loved us, those who were there when He walked the earth, and the disciples, and He said for us to love one another even as He has loved us. Now I won't claim to be an expert in love, especially God's love, but it seems to me that if you have to love someone, then it is not love at all. Love is an emotion, which demonstrates itself in action. Jesus laid down His life as a choice, and the Father loves Him for this, as His only begotten Son. There is no sense of Jesus' being spoken into existence. There is no scripture of His being spoken into existence. The Holy Spirit does not confirm that He was spoken into existence. He was there in the beginning with God. Jesus is and was and always will be, just as the Father.

Okay, true, the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among men. But is it not an oversimplification to say that the Word is just spoken from God's mouth? Our language is so limited, especially when it comes to spiritual things. We cannot explain God completely in our words, no way, it ain't possible. His word is not like our words. You are saying that the Word of God is not separate from God, and in this we all will agree. But in this assertion you are also saying that the Word is not a separate entity, and we cannot agree in this with you. The Word, henceforth, Jesus, is a distinct and separate personality, and yet in complete unity with the Father. I will show you how.

"But now I come to Thee, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy made full in themselves. I have given them Thy word, and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask Thee to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Thy word is truth. As Thou didst send Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who beieve in Me through their word, that they may all be one, even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me. And the glory which Thou hast given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one. I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me. Father, I desire that they also whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me, for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, although the world has not known Thee, yet I have known Thee; and these have known that Thou didst send Me; and I have made Thy name known to them, and will make it known; that the love withwith Thou didst love Me may be in them, and I in them.


Here we find the Word of God praying to the Father God, for us. And if we wish to take your analogy to its fulfillment, then we too are to be words of God, just able to do what we were sent to do, because God has spoken us into existence. But we are in the world, even as He was in the world, but not of the world, so we are not of the world. As He is one with the Father so we are one with Him and with the Father. And just as He has glory from the Father, He desires that we have the self same glory as He has. The love that the Father has for the Son is the same love that He has for us.

All of these things could not be true if Jesus is as you say He is.

 

[joint-heir]

Actually, to love. Jesus loved us, those who were there when He walked the earth, and the disciples, and He said for us to love one another even as He has loved us. Now I won't claim to be an expert in love, especially God's love, but it seems to me that if you have to love someone, then it is not love at all. Love is an emotion, which demonstrates itself in action. Jesus laid down His life as a choice, and the Father loves Him for this, as His only begotten Son. There is no sense of Jesus' being spoken into existence. There is no scripture of His being spoken into existence. The Holy Spirit does not confirm that He was spoken into existence. He was there in the beginning with God. Jesus is and was and always will be, just as the Father.

Okay, true, the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among men. But is it not an oversimplification to say that the Word is just spoken from God's mouth? Our language is so limited, especially when it comes to spiritual things. We cannot explain God completely in our words, no way, it ain't possible. His word is not like our words. You are saying that the Word of God is not separate from God, and in this we all will agree. But in this assertion you are also saying that the Word is not a separate entity, and we cannot agree in this with you. The Word, henceforth, Jesus, is a distinct and separate personality, and yet in complete unity with the Father. I will show you how.

"But now I come to Thee, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy made full in themselves. I have given them Thy word, and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask Thee to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Thy word is truth. As Thou didst send Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who beieve in Me through their word, that they may all be one, even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me. And the glory which Thou hast given Me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one. I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me. Father, I desire that they also whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me, for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, although the world has not known Thee, yet I have known Thee; and these have known that Thou didst send Me; and I have made Thy name known to them, and will make it known; that the love withwith Thou didst love Me may be in them, and I in them.


Here we find the Word of God praying to the Father God, for us. And if we wish to take your analogy to its fulfillment, then we too are to be words of God, just able to do what we were sent to do, because God has spoken us into existence. But we are in the world, even as He was in the world, but not of the world, so we are not of the world. As He is one with the Father so we are one with Him and with the Father. And just as He has glory from the Father, He desires that we have the self same glory as He has. The love that the Father has for the Son is the same love that He has for us.

All of these things could not be true if Jesus is as you say He is.

WHAT I SEE FROM YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT
IS
EVERYTHING IS COMPLICATED TO YOU
MEANING
NOTHING IS ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK OF IT IN THE PHYSICAL MIND
YOU CAN ONLY SEE THIS AS WE ARE HERE ON EARTH
BUT MY FRIEND
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GOD
LOOK OUTSIDE
TRAVEL THE USA OR WORLD
SEE AND PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU SEE
EVERY SPECIES OF TREES, FLOWERS, BIRDS, FISH, ANIMALS, MAMMALS, AMPHIBIANS,
INSECTS 4 LEGS TO 6 TO 8, TYPES OF CLOUDS, STARS, MOON, SUN, PLANETS,
RIVERS TO PONDS TO LAKES TO OCEANS, MOUNTAINS, VALLEYS, FIELDS

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT WHEN YOU SEE THESE THINGS...?
YOU ARE SEEING THE CAPABILITIES OF GOD
AND HIS CREATIVITY AND INFINITE WISDOM AND STRUCTUE

NOW
ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME
A GOD CAPABLE OF ALL THAT I HAVE DESCRIBES
YOU ARE GOING TO LIMIT...?

DONT BE FOOLED BY WHAT THOSE WHO CLAIM TO KNOW
WHEN
THEY THEMSELVES
LIVE LIMITED AND NOT WALKING IN THE FULL POWER BY WHICH GOD HAS GIVEN THEM
I HAVE LEARNED A LONG TIME AGO
THOSE WHO LIMIT GOD
BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES
CANNOT SEE WHO GOD REALLY IS
ARE THE ONES ALL OVER THE WORLD
THAT THE CHURCH IS PAYING THEIR UTILITIES
FEEDING THEM THRU FOOD BANKS
ALWAYS LOOKING FOR HANDOUTS
NOW
IS THIS BECAUSE AS A CHRISTIAN WE NEVER STRUGGLE...?
ABSOLUTELY NOT
BUT
WHAT THEY DO HAVE IN COMMON WORLDWIDE
IS
WHEN PROBLEMS HAPPEN THEIR FIRST RESPONSE IS
SATAN ATTACKS ME
GOD HATES ME
PEOPLE AT CHURCH LOOK DOWN AT ME
THE PASTOR DIDNT SHAKE MY HAND
EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE
IN FACT THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES YOU EVER HEAR COMPLAINING
DO YOU NOTICE A PATTERN HERE...?
YEAH THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE DURING REVIVAL ARE SIDE BY SIDE
RECEIVING AND DWELLING WITHIN THE WONDERFUL GLORY OF GOD
BUT AS SOON AS THEY GET OUT BY THEMSELVES
AND THAT GLORY HAS GONE AND PASSED
THEY BEGIN LIVING WITHIN THEIR LIMITED SPECTACLES
AND ALL THEY SEE IS DEFEAT
AND THE CYCLE BEGINS ALL OVER AGAIN WITH THESE PEOPLE

I SAID ALL THIS BECAUSE
ONCE YOU TAKE YOUR LIMITATIONS OFF WHO YOU THINK GOD IS
HE WILL REMOVE THE LIMITATIONS YOU ARE DWELLING IN
AND YOUR LIFE WILL INCREASE AND GOD WILL NOW BE ABLE TO USE YOU

NOW YOU SAID GOD CAME HERE TO LOVE TO MY RESPONSE TO SERVE
BROTHER
WHEN YOU LAY YOUR LIFE DOWN TO SERVE OTHERS
THAT IS THE GREATES LOVE YOU COULD EVER GIVE

REMOVE THE LIMITITATIONS YOU HAVE IN GOD

GOD WILL REVEAL TO YOU THE COMPLETE TRUTH

GOD SPOKE
THE SPOKEN WORD BECAME FLESH
HOLY GHOST IS THE SPIRIT OF BOTH GOD AND HIS HOLY WORD
THEY ARE INDEED
THE SAME ONE BODIED GOD
AND ALWAYS WILL
IF THEY WERE 3 SEPARATE BEINGS
THE FIRST COMMANDMENT
WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN
HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE ME
NOTICE
IN THIS COMMANDMENT IS THE WORD REFERING TO WHO GOD IS
ME
IN EVERY DICTIONARY ME REPRESENTS SELF
AND SELF REPRESENTS ONE SINGULAR

 

[VW]

WHAT I SEE FROM YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT
IS
EVERYTHING IS COMPLICATED TO YOU


Actually, it is not complicated at all. I have the Spirit living in me, and I worship the Son, giving Him all glory, and I am coming to know the Father, the the living God, through the work of the Spirit and of the Son. And they are all God.

Simple.

 

[VW]

WHEN PROBLEMS HAPPEN THEIR FIRST RESPONSE IS
SATAN ATTACKS ME
GOD HATES ME
PEOPLE AT CHURCH LOOK DOWN AT ME
THE PASTOR DIDNT SHAKE MY HAND
EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE
IN FACT THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES YOU EVER HEAR COMPLAINING
DO YOU NOTICE A PATTERN HERE...?
YEAH THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE DURING REVIVAL ARE SIDE BY SIDE
RECEIVING AND DWELLING WITHIN THE WONDERFUL GLORY OF GOD
BUT AS SOON AS THEY GET OUT BY THEMSELVES
AND THAT GLORY HAS GONE AND PASSED
THEY BEGIN LIVING WITHIN THEIR LIMITED SPECTACLES
AND ALL THEY SEE IS DEFEAT
AND THE CYCLE BEGINS ALL OVER AGAIN WITH THESE PEOPLE

Actually, I was in service one day, and during the worship when we were supposed to be in the presence of God, the Spirit asked me if we really were in the Presence. I answered, "You know, Lord." And He said, "If this was my presence, would they all forget Me before they even left the room?"

Yeah, I agree that we limit God, but I say that all of us limit Him, because we are frail and weak fleshly creatures, who are a lot less capable than we would like to think.

But I do not agree that weak christians are the result of believing in the trinity. I know the power of the Holy Spirit, and He is not weak. I have seen Him cause demons to flee, and sickness to be healed. And I have felt through Him the love and the glory of God, such that I could not even talk.

When we stand before Christ, I worry about what His judgment will be about just how little I was willing to let His Spirit teach me about the love and the glory of God.

 

[joint-heir]

joint_heir, where do you think people who are baptised in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit (i.e. the Trinity) are going, heaven to hell? You seem to be avoiding this question.

THE NAME OF THE
FATHER
SON
HOLY GHOST
IS JESUS CHRIST

I HAVE NOTICED THAT IN MANY TRINITY CHURCHES IN AMERICA
THAT HAVE ASKED ME TO COME AND PREACH AND AS LIVES HAVE BEEN CHANGED
AND THEY ACCEPT GOD AND RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST IMMEDIATELY
THEY ASK TO BE BAPTIZED
IRONICALLY
I HAVE BEEN ASTONIED DUE TO THE FACT
AS A FEW FROM THE CHURCHES OF THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD
WERE BAPTIZING IN THIS EXACT FORMULA

***I NOW INDEED BAPTIZE YOU FOR THE REMISSIONS OF YOUR SINS
IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON, THE HOLY GHOST IN JESUS NAME***

SO AFTER ALL THE TITLES
THEY THROW IN JESUS NAME
I ASKED THEM WHEN DID THIS BEGIN...?
THEIR REPLY
THEY ARE BEGINNING TO BE CONCERNED WITH PETER'S CHARGE
IN ACTS 2:38
SO IF THEY BAPTIZE INCLUDING ALL TITLES AND JESUS NAME
THEY FEEL IT WILL BE ACCEPTABLE UNTO GOD
AND THE PART THAT BLEW MY MIND
WAS THAT THEY HAD WENT THRU AND RE=BAPTIZED EVERYONE
IN THEIR CHURCH IN THIS FORMULA
THIS IS THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD IN AMERICA
ONE OF THE BIGGEST TRINITY CHURCHES WORLD WIDE

I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT MANY IN THE TRINITY ARE BEGINNING TO QUESTION
OR
THEY WOULD NOT BE ADDING ---JESUS--- TO THEIR BAPTISMAL FORMULA

NOW, TO ASK ARE THEY NOT SAVED BY BEING BAPTIZED IN THE TRINITY
I SAY THEY ARE
BECAUSE
EVERYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND INCLUDING GOD
UNDERSTANDS AND KNOWS
WHO THAT NAME IS
IN THE NAME........OF THE ---FATHER-SON-HOLY GHOST
THAT NAME IS JESUS

 

[HumbleSaint]

You know what is realy starting to bother me is all these debats about how people are baptized, and other technicality's Whether or not they are saved it they believe in the rapture or the tribuation and what not, But what does the Bible say about the saved person, It says he that does the will of the Father. And who were those that the Lord refused. Those that practiced iniquity. There are things that we probably will never quite understand, but one thing is for sure, a true believer is known by his fruit.

 

[VW]

You know what is realy starting to bother me is all these debats about how people are baptized, and other technicality's Whether or not they are saved it they believe in the rapture or the tribuation and what not, But what does the Bible say about the saved person, It says he that does the will of the Father. And who were those that the Lord refused. Those that practiced iniquity. There are things that we probably will never quite understand, but one thing is for sure, a true believer is known by his fruit.

Jesus told those who came to Him and said that they had done great works in His name to depart from Him, workers of inequity, because He never knew them.

Paul said that the fruit of the Spirit is love.

And how do I know the will of the Father? By study?

I know the will of the Father by His Spirit, and by the love that He wants to spread abroad into the world through me. It is His love, and He wants to shine His love as a light into the world through us.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

These things Jesus spoke; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; Glorify Your son, that the Son may glorify You, even as You gave Him authority over all flesh that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I glorify You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. and now You glorify Me together with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." John 17:1-5
In this passage, Jesus speaks to God the Father, looking up to heaven. It is obvious that Jesus refers to the Father as a separate person and says some things which are not tenable with unitarianism or modalism. This is not a prayer being made for the benefit of teaching the disciples as Jesus speaks of things that we cannot pray and is preparing for His death on the cross. Of particular note is that Jesus prays for his disciples "that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus christ whom You have sent." This expression makes no sense if the Father and Jesus Christ are not separate persons. Note also that at the end of the passage Jesus refers to His presence as a separate person in heaven before the world was created.

 

[joint-heir]

WHEN PROBLEMS HAPPEN THEIR FIRST RESPONSE IS
SATAN ATTACKS ME
GOD HATES ME
PEOPLE AT CHURCH LOOK DOWN AT ME
THE PASTOR DIDNT SHAKE MY HAND
EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE
IN FACT THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES YOU EVER HEAR COMPLAINING
DO YOU NOTICE A PATTERN HERE...?
YEAH THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE DURING REVIVAL ARE SIDE BY SIDE
RECEIVING AND DWELLING WITHIN THE WONDERFUL GLORY OF GOD
BUT AS SOON AS THEY GET OUT BY THEMSELVES
AND THAT GLORY HAS GONE AND PASSED
THEY BEGIN LIVING WITHIN THEIR LIMITED SPECTACLES
AND ALL THEY SEE IS DEFEAT
AND THE CYCLE BEGINS ALL OVER AGAIN WITH THESE PEOPLE

Actually, I was in service one day, and during the worship when we were supposed to be in the presence of God, the Spirit asked me if we really were in the Presence. I answered, "You know, Lord." And He said, "If this was my presence, would they all forget Me before they even left the room?"

Yeah, I agree that we limit God, but I say that all of us limit Him, because we are frail and weak fleshly creatures, who are a lot less capable than we would like to think.

But I do not agree that weak christians are the result of believing in the trinity. I know the power of the Holy Spirit, and He is not weak. I have seen Him cause demons to flee, and sickness to be healed. And I have felt through Him the love and the glory of God, such that I could not even talk.

When we stand before Christ, I worry about what His judgment will be about just how little I was willing to let His Spirit teach me about the love and the glory of God.

YOU MAKE ALOT OF SENSE TO ME BROTHER YOU REALLY DO
BUT
MAY I ADD THIS TO YOU
IN THE CHURCH I AM THE ASSOCIATE PASTOR
MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN MY CONGREGATION
ARE
EX-CONS, EX-BIKERS, EX-MAFIA (WITNESS PROTECTION),
AND EX-THUGS AND PUNKS
HERE IN GILBERT, ARIZONA
YOU KNOW THE ONE THING MANY OF THESE HAD IN COMMON
MOST GREW UP IN A CHURCH WHERE 2 DOCTRINES WERE PREACHED
TRINITY AND GRACE
3 GODS AND ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED
SO THEY LIVED THEIR LIVES IN TROUBLE RUNNING FROM THE LAW
BECAUSE HEY THEY WERE ONCE SAVED SINCE THIS IS A KEY MESSAGE
THE TRINITY PREACHES
IN MY CHURCH
OR I SHOULD SAY THE CHURCH GOD HAS PLACED ME IN
WE PREACH ONENESS
AND GRACE IS THE IDEA YOU ARE LUCKY JUST TO BE SAVED
IT IS NOT A CONDITION
BUT AN INVITATION FROM GOD
BUT ONCE YOU GO TO GOD AND SEEK REPENTANCE
EVERY SIN UP TO THAT MOMENT IS TRULLY ERASED
BUT IF YOU SIN TOMORROW YOU ARE BACK IN SIN
AND THESE PEOPLE MY FRIEND
WHO MOST OF THE WORLD WOULD CONSIDER SCUM OF THE EARTH
MURDERS-THEIVES-CRIME BOSSES-BOOKIES
THEY KNOW THAT THEY KNOW
WHEN YOU ARE KISSING THEIR BUTTS OR BEING STRAIGHT WITH THEM
AND IT IS JUST NOT A TESTIMONIAL WITNESS
THE RESULT OF A FALSE DOCTRINES
BUT
IT IS A TESTAMENT TO THOSE WHO ARE REAL IN GOD
AND
TO THOSE WHO POLISH YOUR EGO FOR THE BIG OFFERING PLATE

LOVE
IS TEACHING OTHERS THE DIRECT TRUTH
AND
NOT BRUSHING YOUR EGO FOR TITHES AND OFFERINGS
AND ONCE CHURCHES ACROSS THE WORLD
LEAVE MONEY OUT OF THE EQUATION
GOD WILL THEN
OPEN UP HIS POWER AND WE WILL GET BACK TO THE BASICS
AND SEE THOSE THINGS WE READ ABOUT IN OUR BIBLES

YOU KNOW WHY MY CONGREGATION LOVES ME
NOT BECAUSE I SLAM THE TRINITY
WHICH BY THE WAY I DONT BUT I DID THIS FOR THIS FORUM ONLY
THEY RESPECT ME AND LOVE ME BECAUSE
I AM IN THEIR FACES
I SEE THEM AS MEN AND EQUALS
BROTHERS IN GOD
AND I DONT KISS THEIR BUTTS TO GET AN OFFERING OUT OF THEM
AND I AM NOT AFRAID TO TELL THEM MY POSITION IN GOD
ACCORDING TO THEIR ACTIONS
WHEN YOU WALK IN GOD
YOU PREACH THE TRUTH
AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE
THEN AND ONLY THEN
WILL GOD BE REVEALED IN EVERY FACET OF YOUR LIFE

WHEN I STAND BEFORE GOD BROTHER YOU KNOW WHAT MY GOD WILL SAY
HERE IS A MAN
WHO FACED EVERYTHING THE SAME WAY
HE ALLOWED GOD BEFORE HIM WHO CAN BE AGAINST HIM
AND HE ALLOWED ME HIS GOD
TO LEAD AND DIRECT
AND HE FEARED NO EVIL
HE UNDERSTOOD
GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN HIM THAN HE WHO WAS IN THE WORLD
ENTER IN MY SON MY GOD WILL SAY TO ME

 

[VW]

I agree with you about the watered down gospel message. It has done more damage than we can know until that day when every deed and thought and word will be shown for what it is. I do not think, or agree that the doctrine of the trinity has anything to do with this problem. I just don't see the connection.

I understand the difficulty of the work you have from Him. My prayers for His leading in all things.

P.S. I have a short word I would like to send you, kinda of strong about the above, if you don't mind.

 

[joint-heir]

I agree with you about the watered down gospel message. It has done more damage than we can know until that day when every deed and thought and word will be shown for what it is. I do not think, or agree that the doctrine of the trinity has anything to do with this problem. I just don't see the connection.

I understand the difficulty of the work you have from Him. My prayers for His leading in all things.

P.S. I have a short word I would like to send you, kinda of strong about the above, if you don't mind.

I MENTIONED THE TRINITY IS CONNECTION WITH THIS
BECAUSE
FROM THEIR PERSONAL ACCOUNTS AND FROM CHURCHES WHO I HAVE ASKED
THIS DOCTRINE OF GRACE = ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED
IS ONLY IN THE TRINITY CHURCHES
SO I CAN ONLY WONDER
IF A DOCTRINE OF 3 GODS RUNNING AROUND AND A WATERED DOWN VERSION
OF GRACE AND PREACH FOR BIG OFFERING PLATES
SEEMS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE TRINITY CHURCHES
WHAT ELSE COULD BE WRONG WITHIN THIS THEOLOGY...?

 

[joint-heir]

These things Jesus spoke; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; Glorify Your son, that the Son may glorify You, even as You gave Him authority over all flesh that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I glorify You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. and now You glorify Me together with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." John 17:1-5
In this passage, Jesus speaks to God the Father, looking up to heaven. It is obvious that Jesus refers to the Father as a separate person and says some things which are not tenable with unitarianism or modalism. This is not a prayer being made for the benefit of teaching the disciples as Jesus speaks of things that we cannot pray and is preparing for His death on the cross. Of particular note is that Jesus prays for his disciples "that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus christ whom You have sent." This expression makes no sense if the Father and Jesus Christ are not separate persons. Note also that at the end of the passage Jesus refers to His presence as a separate person in heaven before the world was created.

EXCELLENT POINT

WHAT I SEEN SPECIFICLY AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS ENTIRE TIME
IN YOUR SCRIPTURE REFERENCE ...
IT SAYS...having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do

AND ONCE AGAIN I REITERATE

GOD SPOKE AND THE WORD IS WHAT GOD SPOKE
SO
THE WORD WOULD DO AS HE WAS SPOKEN TO DO

IT STILL EQUATES SAME PERSON FOR WORD IS WHAT GOD SPOKE

 

[joint-heir]

We agree and believe that God created us in his image / Gen 1:26,27. Right? In verse (26) He did say let 'us' create man in 'our' image, after 'our' likeness. There are (2) plural pronouns meaning more than one is being referred to. I would like to add that God could not be referring to the angels when He used these plural pronouns because angels were created as a host of ministering spirits and flames of fire / Heb 1:7 and Christ was made better than the angels being made in the 'express image of His person' / Heb 1:3, referring to the image of the Father. This express image is not a copy or likeness or a clone, but the same exact image, impress and essence because He came from God the Father /Jn 16:27,28. This is why Jesus said, If you have seen me you have seen the Father / Jn 14:9.

Man was made in the image and likeness of God. Man was fashioned after the pattern of the heavenly. Man has a spirit, soul and body and is a trichotomy / 1Thes 5:23, just as the trinity and Godhead is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The public record that established the existence of the trinity and Godhead was witnessed on the earth at the baptism of Jesus Christ.

Mt 3:16,17 And when Jesus was baptized, He went up at once out of the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he [John] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on Him. 17 And behold, a voice from heaven said, This is My Son, My Beloved, in Whom I delight!

We have the Son present on the earth in bodily form, the Spirit descends from heaven in a bodily shape upon the Son (Lk 3:22) and the voice of the Father spoke from heaven testifying that it was His Son whom He was well pleased. All the people that were also baptized witnessed all three persons of the Godhead participating in this act of righteousness by our Lord Jesus Christ/ Lk 3:21.

This was the beginning of the record that was made concerning the Godhead. There is more.

IF THE WORD THAT GOD SPOKE IS THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD
THEN
ALL THINGS ARE THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD SINCE WEARE CREATED IN HIS IMAGE
SO YES
"OUR" WOULD EQUAL TO EVERYTHING INCLUDING ANGELS PERTAINING TO... "US"
CONCERNING CREATION OF MAN

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

These things Jesus spoke; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; Glorify Your son, that the Son may glorify You, even as You gave Him authority over all flesh that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I glorify You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. and now You glorify Me together with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." John 17:1-5
In this passage, Jesus speaks to God the Father, looking up to heaven. It is obvious that Jesus refers to the Father as a separate person and says some things which are not tenable with unitarianism or modalism. This is not a prayer being made for the benefit of teaching the disciples as Jesus speaks of things that we cannot pray and is preparing for His death on the cross. Of particular note is that Jesus prays for his disciples "that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus christ whom You have sent." This expression makes no sense if the Father and Jesus Christ are not separate persons. Note also that at the end of the passage Jesus refers to His presence as a separate person in heaven before the world was created.

If you believe that Jesus Christ and the Father are seperate, than they are not together - one, seperation denotes distinction, more than one, in this case two, but you also add in a third entity who is seperate as well, so you have three god's, then the contradiction on your part is to claim that three seperate entities are one, which is illogical and false.

If I have 3 apples how many apples do I have?

 

[charisenexcelcis]

If you believe that Jesus Christ and the Father are seperate, than they are not together - one, seperation denotes distinction, more than one, in this case two, but you also add in a third entity who is seperate as well, so you have three god's, then the contradiction on your part is to claim that three seperate entities are one, which is illogical and false.

If I have 3 apples how many apples do I have?

If you have three omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent persons, then you have one God.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

If you have three omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent persons, then you have one God.

No, thats an oxymoron, a contradiction.

As I have already defined the meaning for you of 'distinct', 'seperate', 'individual', 'person' etc, you should by now know the definition of the words.

If there are three seperate persons then there are three seperate persons! Not one person! If each of the individual distinct persons are God, then there are three god's. Regardless if they share the same quality or substance or will or whatever, that is irrelevant in regards to number, i.e. if I have three apples how many apples do I have, each of the apples share the same substance and qualities of appleness, but by number I have three, 1, 2, 3. Thats more than one apple, a multitude.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

No, thats an oxymoron, a contradiction.

As I have already defined the meaning for you of 'distinct', 'seperate', 'individual', 'person' etc, you should by now know the definition of the words.

If there are three seperate persons then there are three seperate persons! Not one person! If each of the individual distinct persons are God, then there are three god's. Regardless if they share the same quality or substance or will or whatever, that is irrelevant in regards to number, i.e. if I have three apples how many apples do I have, each of the apples share the same substance and qualities of appleness, but by number I have three, 1, 2, 3. Thats more than one apple, a multitude.

It doesn't work with apples, but it works with God. If you have three omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent persons, you have one God. All numbers are abstract. If I have three car accidents that is fundamentally different than if I have three cows. What works with God probably will not work with apples. So, three persons, one God.

 

[MahogonySnail]

It is claimed that in heaven, there is only one person. But here we see in the vision which Stephen had, he LITERALLY SAW Jesus standing on the RIGHT HAND of God......

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Oneness doctrine is DISPROVEN.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

It doesn't work with apples, but it works with God. If you have three omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent persons, you have one God. All numbers are abstract. If I have three car accidents that is fundamentally different than if I have three cows. What works with God probably will not work with apples. So, three persons, one God.

The numerical value remains the same whether its applied to car accidents or cows or apples, the number is still three. Numbers are concieved apart from matter, they are not dependent on the matter or substance which can be the same or not, if you can make 3 = 1, then why can't someone else make 3= 4, your saying 3 is the same numerical value as 1, well why not 4 or 5!

If you were to say I have one cow, but you really had three, then you would be a liar, you cannot claim that you have one cow substance but deny it exists seperately as three individual beings. The same if I had three apples and I sold them but I only delivered one, when the buyer complains of not DIVIDING RIGHTLY, I could claim by the same standard of abstraction that you employ that 'three is really one', because apples are apples, if I sold a thousand I could do the same, all apples are made of the same substance so they are all one.

Can you see the problem with this abstraction, its not logical and its not reasonable and its wrong.

Unless you want to declare a 'mystery' there is really no other option, and that is where you are heading eventually you will have to declare the 'Trinity' a 'mystery' or you will have to apply some type of hierarchy to these three seperate beings, three of which are God according to you.

If I am a Father and a Son and a Soul and a Spirit, and a Being and Brother, how many I's are there? How many of me is there?