Who is GOD.......?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
It is claimed that in heaven, there is only one person. But here we see in the vision which Stephen had, he LITERALLY SAW Jesus standing on the RIGHT HAND of God......

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Oneness doctrine is DISPROVEN.
Right Hand is the power, "Salvation is in My right hand" etc, I have a right hand, how many of me would you see? I don't know if you have glasses or not, maybe you might see, two COR!
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
Does or does it not say Jesus was seen standing on the right hand of God? This is a literal vision Stephen is having to comfort him. And he sees TWO in heaven, not one.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
The numerical value remains the same whether its applied to car accidents or cows or apples, the number is still three. Numbers are concieved apart from matter, they are not dependent on the matter or substance which can be the same or not, if you can make 3 = 1, then why can't someone else make 3= 4, your saying 3 is the same numerical value as 1, well why not 4 or 5!

If you were to say I have one cow, but you really had three, then you would be a liar, you cannot claim that you have one cow substance but deny it exists seperately as three individual beings. The same if I had three apples and I sold them but I only delivered one, when the buyer complains of not DIVIDING RIGHTLY, I could claim by the same standard of abstraction that you employ that 'three is really one', because apples are apples, if I sold a thousand I could do the same, all apples are made of the same substance so they are all one.

Can you see the problem with this abstraction, its not logical and its not reasonable and its wrong.

Unless you want to declare a 'mystery' there is really no other option, and that is where you are heading eventually you will have to declare the 'Trinity' a 'mystery' or you will have to apply some type of hierarchy to these three seperate beings, three of which are God according to you.

If I am a Father and a Son and a Soul and a Spirit, and a Being and Brother, how many I's are there? How many of me is there?
Three persons, one God. If three believers gather together, can we not be one, in the words of the Jesus, "as I and my Father are one"? You see numbers are abstract. I am one person. I am over two hundred pounds. I am over fifty years. You look at the Godhead in one way, you see three, in others ways one. Three omnipotent persons must be one in will and purpose, for if one opposes the other then someone wins and omnipotency is gone. Numbers are adjectives, not noun. If you say something is one, the question is one what? The Godhead has an essential unity and uniqueness that is not challanged by the existence of the three persons.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
Right Hand is the power, "Salvation is in My right hand" etc, I have a right hand, how many of me would you see? I don't know if you have glasses or not, maybe you might see, two COR!
If I see joint-heir standing at the right hand of Cup-of-Ruin, how many of you would I see?
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
Acts 2:32-34 show the interaction between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in heaven.. there is clearly THREE in heaven, not one. And that this would be impossible of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost were all one person.


Act 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
,



Rom 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Eph 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,


1Pe 3:22
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
Does or does it not say Jesus was seen standing on the right hand of God? This is a literal vision Stephen is having to comfort him. And he sees TWO in heaven, not one.
He didn't see anybody but the Lord Jesus Christ, you cannopt be on the right hand on something that is not there, He didn't say He saw TWO, he said He only saw ONE and that was Jesus, in Hebrew and Greek and Latin and our own tongue English, being on the right hand means that is the position of power and authority.

"And Jesus said 'I am (E.W. Bullinger Note - 'I am He', see John 4:26, 8:28,58, see Gr. opsomai the future of horao, and as regard to the object being presented to the eye, and to the subject that percieves, at the same time, the condition of the one to whose eye the object is presented, hence, to truly comprehend by sight.) and ye shall see the Son of man (Title) sitting on (at,Gr. ek) the right hand of power (dunamis = inherent power; the power reproducing itself, see Acts 1:8) and coming in the clouds of hevean." Mark 14:62

Of course after Jesus claimed the inherent power and dynamic of God Himself to execute all power and judgement, the high preist 'rent his cloths' and said "What need we any futher witnesses? Ye have heard the blasphemy"

As a high priest he was well aware that there was only one God, the Israelites certainly were not told there was two or three god's, Jesus clearly claims and literally presents Himself as God, "I am" the Greek means 'it's Me, I am He, its God, Me, presenting Myself, I;m here, you will see Me from now on because I am, I have the power of the right hand, you will see Me coming in the midst of Heaven, you will see Me on the throne, I, Myself, there is no other beside Me, I alone am God, this is what he is saying and the audience of the high preists of Israel knew exactly what he was saying, because there is no other way of interpreting it.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
Acts 2:32-34 show the interaction between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in heaven.. there is clearly THREE in heaven, not one. And that this would be impossible of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost were all one person.


Act 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
,



Rom 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? Itis Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Eph 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,


1Pe 3:22
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken thisis the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Right, so you believe in three gods that makes you are polytheist

Right, r-i-g-h-t, dexter

"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing" Matt. 6:3
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
He didn't see anybody but the Lord Jesus Christ, you cannopt be on the right hand on something that is not there, He didn't say He saw TWO, he said He only saw ONE and that was Jesus, in Hebrew and Greek and Latin and our own tongue English, being on the right hand means that is the position of power and authority.
He saw Jesus at the right hand of God..so obviously he must have seen God. And note that he doesn't say Jesus was God..he says Jesus was at the right hand of God...
If you see one apple standing at the right hand of another apple, how many apples can you see? Answer = two.
There are too many scriptures to count which I posted above that say Jesus is at the right hand of God. That's where Jesus went after his ascension to sit beside the Father on the throne.

There are also the scriptures where it says God raised him up... he didn't raise Himself up!. Some who have said that the Father is like Jesus' sSpirit, and Jesus is like the flesh... it is impossible and makes no sense for Jesus's spirit to raise up his flesh, or for a person's flesh to be seated at the right hand of their spirit.

You are dead WRONG. I'm not the one denying that scripture plainly says Jesus is at God's right hand.
 
Last edited:
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
dexios actually in Koine Greek never means direction, dexia does, when the Bible uses dexios the meaning is as saying approved, correct, right! Our English word 'Right' has a double meaning it means correct and a direction.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
He saw Jesus at the right hand of God..
Yea thats the affirmed one, theres idiom to consider, as I am explaining to you.


so obviously he must have seen God. And note that he doesn't say Jesus was God..he says Jesus was at the right hand of God...
Oh, here we go the cracks begin to show, now all of sudden, Stephan dosen't say Jesus was God! Well anybody with rudimentary knowledge of Koine Greek and the Bible would dissagree with you there, and counter that Stephan was saying he saw God and it was Jesus!

If you see one apple standing at the right hand of another apple, how many apples can you see? Answer = two.
Stephan said He saw Jesus Christ in the right dexios position of authority and power, there is no direction implied, nor is Stephan saying he saw two gods.

There are too many scriptures to count which I posted above that say Jesus is at the right hand of God. That's where Jesus went after his ascension to sit beside the Father on the throne.
Not RIGHT!

There are also the scriptures where it says God raised him up... he didn't raise Himself up!. Some who have said that the Father is like Jesus' sSpirit, and Jesus is like the flesh... it is impossible and makes no sense for Jesus's spirit to raise up his flesh, or for a person's flesh to be seated at the right hand of their spirit.
Well 'Snail that just isnt RIGHT....He did raise Himself, 'I am the resurrection'.

You are dead WRONG. I'm not the one denying that scripture plainly says Jesus is at God's right hand.
Well its a sinister (Left) doctrine, this 'Trinity' business, and to the contrary I sit on the right side of this, there is only one God.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
Even if we interpret it to say "Jesus sits at the correct side of God".. it still means the same thing. There are two in heaven, Jesus and God (the Father). The Father.. raised Jesus up and sat him at his right hand. Scripture says the Father did that. Jesus did not do that himself.

Do you deny the scriptures I posted above which says that the Father (God) did these things to Jesus ? and Jesus did not do them Himself?

You cannot find one verse where it says Christ raised Himself up from the dead. Jesus said when he died on the cross

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

So Jesus delivered his own spirit to the Father.. So it makes no sense to say that Jesus commended his own spirit into his own spirit in heaven. Nor does it make sense to say that Jesus commended himself into his own hands.
 
Last edited:
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
The Oneness God , must be schizophrenic..or have multiple personality disorder... because He talks to himself! and speaks in the third person about himself!
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
Even if we interpret it to say "Jesus sits at the correct side of God".. it still means the same thing. There are two in heaven, Jesus and God (the Father).
Its just the one that takes hold, bind, you see there is no 'hand', its just dexios, thats what Im explaining to you, look it up in your study aids, go to blue letter bible, you will see that no direction is implied and 'right hand' is translated from the Greek dexios, and a proper etymological study will reveal that it is derived from a sense of embracing, to take hold of and greet favourably, grant access, embracing the clear vision of or comprehension of Him - Jesus Christ, it means it's Him!
 
Last edited:
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
The Oneness God , must be schizophrenic..or have multiple personality disorder... because He talks to himself! and speaks in the third person about himself!
Well your kind of left with that, that's all you can say, because you don't comprehend the words even though i'm giving you the definition.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
embracing the clear vision of or comprehension of Him
embracing... the FATHER. Jesus ascends to heaven and embraces the Father. Still two there in heaven mate, not one.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
In Revelation we have the picture of the throne room of God, the one who sits on the throne is God the Father, and here we see Christ (the Lamb) actually come and take a scroll from the one who is on the throne:

Rev 5:6 And I looked, and lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, amidst the elders, a Lamb stood, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Rev 5:7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him sitting on the throne.


So again, TWO In heaven, not one.
 
S

shad

Guest
YOU MAKE ALOT OF SENSE TO ME BROTHER YOU REALLY DO
BUT
MAY I ADD THIS TO YOU
IN THE CHURCH I AM THE ASSOCIATE PASTOR
MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN MY CONGREGATION
ARE
EX-CONS, EX-BIKERS, EX-MAFIA (WITNESS PROTECTION),
AND EX-THUGS AND PUNKS
HERE IN GILBERT, ARIZONA
YOU KNOW THE ONE THING MANY OF THESE HAD IN COMMON
MOST GREW UP IN A CHURCH WHERE 2 DOCTRINES WERE PREACHED
TRINITY AND GRACE
3 GODS AND ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED
SO THEY LIVED THEIR LIVES IN TROUBLE RUNNING FROM THE LAW
BECAUSE HEY THEY WERE ONCE SAVED SINCE THIS IS A KEY MESSAGE
THE TRINITY PREACHES
IN MY CHURCH
OR I SHOULD SAY THE CHURCH GOD HAS PLACED ME IN
WE PREACH ONENESS
AND GRACE IS THE IDEA YOU ARE LUCKY JUST TO BE SAVED
IT IS NOT A CONDITION
BUT AN INVITATION FROM GOD
BUT ONCE YOU GO TO GOD AND SEEK REPENTANCE
EVERY SIN UP TO THAT MOMENT IS TRULLY ERASED
BUT IF YOU SIN TOMORROW YOU ARE BACK IN SIN
AND THESE PEOPLE MY FRIEND
WHO MOST OF THE WORLD WOULD CONSIDER SCUM OF THE EARTH
MURDERS-THEIVES-CRIME BOSSES-BOOKIES
THEY KNOW THAT THEY KNOW
WHEN YOU ARE KISSING THEIR BUTTS OR BEING STRAIGHT WITH THEM
AND IT IS JUST NOT A TESTIMONIAL WITNESS
THE RESULT OF A FALSE DOCTRINES
BUT
IT IS A TESTAMENT TO THOSE WHO ARE REAL IN GOD
AND
TO THOSE WHO POLISH YOUR EGO FOR THE BIG OFFERING PLATE

LOVE
IS TEACHING OTHERS THE DIRECT TRUTH
AND
NOT BRUSHING YOUR EGO FOR TITHES AND OFFERINGS
AND ONCE CHURCHES ACROSS THE WORLD
LEAVE MONEY OUT OF THE EQUATION
GOD WILL THEN
OPEN UP HIS POWER AND WE WILL GET BACK TO THE BASICS
AND SEE THOSE THINGS WE READ ABOUT IN OUR BIBLES

YOU KNOW WHY MY CONGREGATION LOVES ME
NOT BECAUSE I SLAM THE TRINITY
WHICH BY THE WAY I DONT BUT I DID THIS FOR THIS FORUM ONLY
THEY RESPECT ME AND LOVE ME BECAUSE
I AM IN THEIR FACES
I SEE THEM AS MEN AND EQUALS
BROTHERS IN GOD
AND I DONT KISS THEIR BUTTS TO GET AN OFFERING OUT OF THEM
AND I AM NOT AFRAID TO TELL THEM MY POSITION IN GOD
ACCORDING TO THEIR ACTIONS
WHEN YOU WALK IN GOD
YOU PREACH THE TRUTH
AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE
THEN AND ONLY THEN
WILL GOD BE REVEALED IN EVERY FACET OF YOUR LIFE

WHEN I STAND BEFORE GOD BROTHER YOU KNOW WHAT MY GOD WILL SAY
HERE IS A MAN
WHO FACED EVERYTHING THE SAME WAY
HE ALLOWED GOD BEFORE HIM WHO CAN BE AGAINST HIM
AND HE ALLOWED ME HIS GOD
TO LEAD AND DIRECT
AND HE FEARED NO EVIL
HE UNDERSTOOD
GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN HIM THAN HE WHO WAS IN THE WORLD
ENTER IN MY SON MY GOD WILL SAY TO ME

When is the last time you preached about grace? When is the last time you taught the grace of God? When is the last time you ministered the grace of God to others? No one can be saved without it, not even all those scum bags that you refer to and that includes you and me brother! No one can grow in Christ without grace. No one can be restored or recover from episodes of sin without grace. If you are one of those guys that's big on repentance, you can't even repent unless God grants repentance to you through grace. The first thing that every believer should and have their hearts established in, is the grace of God. You want them to know Jesus Christ, well, He came here by grace and truth. If you don't preach and teach the grace of God or minister grace to guilty people, then you are not preaching Christ or being a good minister of the gospel of grace.

This is what the Bible says about what grace teaches us.

Titus 2:11-15

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

I don't see anything wimpy or sluggish about God's grace. Grace is not legalistic either. Whatever the grace of God demands of us, it supplies what we need to fulfill those demands and if we fail it does not leave us stranded but picks us up and restores us so that we can continue on. God's grace is the complete package no matter what kind of sinner we are or have been. BTW - the grace of God does not fall short of saving our wretched soul forever, because if grace fell short we would all be in serious trouble.

Who is God? He is the God of all grace!
 
Last edited:
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
Further PROOF that there are TWO THRONES in heaven, one for Christ and one for the Father:


Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame and have sat down with My Father in His throne.


Jesus talks about His throne, then talks about His Father's throne. 1+1 = 2.


Likewise "throne of God AND of the Lamb"..there are two, God (Father) and the Lamb (Christ)


Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.




Here we see that the Father will give Him a throne: Jesus does not give Himself a throne! Again, there are two not one.



Luk 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest. And the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David.


Which is true that Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Only the Trinity, can explain how Christ can be both WITH God, and God at the same time.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

It does not say, "The same was in the beginning as God".


 
Last edited:
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
In which case it can be explained as:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ), and the Word (the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ) was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (the Son).

The Trinity says there are three Persons in the one God, each Divine. The Son is as Divine and as much God as the Father.. but there are three, not One.

Your Oneness view, must deny that Christ was WITH God, as part of John 1:1 says, and so it is false.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
Further PROOF that there are TWO THRONES in heaven, one for Christ and one for the Father:


Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame and have sat down with My Father in His throne.


Jesus talks about His throne, then talks about His Father's throne. 1+1 = 2.


Likewise "throne of God AND of the Lamb"..there are two, God (Father) and the Lamb (Christ)


Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.




Here we see that the Father will give Him a throne: Jesus does not give Himself a throne! Again, there are two not one.



Luk 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest. And the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David.


Which is true that Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Only the Trinity, can explain how Christ can be both WITH God, and God at the same time.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

It does not say, "The same was in the beginning as God".


Two Thrones and two god's in heaven! you display just total misunderstanding, I could just keep on explaining it to you as I have done, but clearly you choose to remain in ignorance.