Who is GOD.......?

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joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#241
Dec 21, 2009
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#241
VW said:
And another where it is hard to reconcile, John 10:18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father." This clearly shows two personalities, Jesus, and His Father, who has given Him authority to lay down His live and to take it up again. Later, in another passage Jesus speaks of His leaving, and of the necessity of His leaving, because if He does not leave, then the Holy Spirit will not be sent from the Father. This shows 3 definite personalities. Even more difficult to reconcile. And in the letter to the Hebrews, we find that Jesus lives to always intercede for those who are drawing near to the Father through Him(Jesus.) But most important, when I am in the Spirit, I know that there is the Spirit, who is helping me to be in God's presence, and the Son, who is My Lord, the sacrifice for me that buys my access to the Father, and the Father, who is seated on the throne in the temple in heaven, so holy and pure that only the blood of Jesus could gain me access into His presence.
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NOT 2 PERSONALITIES ONLY 1 COMMANDMENT AND JESUS DID AS COMMANDED
WHY...?
GOD (FATHER) SPOKE AND THE WORD (JESUS) IS WHAT GOD SPOKE

WORDS ALWAYS FOLLOW THOSE THAT SPEAK AND COMMAND THEM
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#242
#242
joint-heir said:
PRAISE GOD FOR THAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED
BUT
IN TODAY'S WORLD
WE DEAL ON FACTS
AND PEOPLE ONLY ARE SAVED BY THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHO JESUS CHRIST IS
AND WHAT HE DID FOR THEM
IF IT WAS ABOUT A TRINITY THEN THE FATHER
OR HOLY GHOST COULD SAVE THEM
BUT THEY CANT
ONLY JESUS CAN
AND THEY ARE DRAWN TO JESUS
BECAUSE JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY
Click to expand...
So, you believe the Berber tribe is not saved unless they are Oneness?
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#243
Dec 21, 2009
538
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#243
charisenexcelcis said:
It is not a dilemma, as everything Jesus did while on earth, He did by the power of the Holy Spirit, the same power available to us and which you yourself allow in your ministry.
My translation is from the Koine Greek, but I provided the KJV for your use. The issue still stands. What was it that Jesus set aside or emptied Himself of which allowed God, who is spirit, to clothe Himself in flesh.
Matthew, on the other hand, was a tax collector, as was Zacchaeus.
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EXACTLY BECAUSE THE WORD AND HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE
THEY ARE THE WORD.....SPOKEN BY GOD.....HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD'S PERSONAL SPIRIT
WHICH MAKES THEM ONE BODY ALL THE SAME

I KNEW WHO THE TAX COLLECTORS WERE
BUT
A TREASURER IS A COLLECTOR OF MONEY
TOO WHICH SINCE JUDAS WAS THE VERY FIRST EVEN THAT ROLE CAN BE EVIL
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#244
Dec 21, 2009
538
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#244
charisenexcelcis said:
So, you believe the Berber tribe is not saved unless they are Oneness?
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I BELIEVE THEY ARE SAVED
BECAUSE
AND ONLY BECAUSE
IN ORDER TO BE SAVED
YOU MUST ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOR FIRST TO RECIEVE
SALVATION AND HOLY GHOST
THEN
IF YOU BELIEVE IN 20 PERSONS RUNNING IN HEAVEN ( THATS A JOKE)
ALTHOUGH IT IS LIKE 3 STILL WRONG
YOU ONLY CAN GET TO GOD
BY JESUS AND ONLY JESUS
AND THERE IS NO OTHER WAY
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#245
#245
HumbleSaint said:
So is it correct to say that God's only begotten son died for our sins or His right hand.
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Both, its the same God, by His 'Right Hand' He does not refer to another but the same. So how many God's took the Israelites out of Egypt? Well only one, and He did it with His 'right hand'.

"The saving strength of His right hand" Psalms 20:6
"The right hand of the Lord is exalted" Ps. 118:16
"The Lord has sworn by His right hand" Is. 62:8
 
VW

VW

Banned
#246
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#246
joint-heir said:
NOT 2 PERSONALITIES ONLY 1 COMMANDMENT AND JESUS DID AS COMMANDED
WHY...?
GOD (FATHER) SPOKE AND THE WORD (JESUS) IS WHAT GOD SPOKE

WORDS ALWAYS FOLLOW THOSE THAT SPEAK AND COMMAND THEM
Click to expand...

That doesn't work. We are talking about a life here. He said that He lays down His life. This is Jesus, walking and talking and breathing and dying and rising again for us. What a strange way you have of seeing God. So, who is the Holy Spirit? Is He the Father also? And so, the Father is the Son and also is the Holy Spirit? And that is why Jesus had to return to the Father, otherwise the Father would have too much of Himself on the earth, can only send part of Himself at one time.

Oh, I get it. It took me a while. The word which is Jesus is not really God, because the word is just that which is spoken. So again, who is the Holy Spirit?

I am going to bed soon, so if I don't see your answer in a few minutes, I will look for it in the morning.
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#248
Dec 21, 2009
538
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#248
VW said:
That doesn't work. We are talking about a life here. He said that He lays down His life. This is Jesus, walking and talking and breathing and dying and rising again for us. What a strange way you have of seeing God. So, who is the Holy Spirit? Is He the Father also? And so, the Father is the Son and also is the Holy Spirit? And that is why Jesus had to return to the Father, otherwise the Father would have too much of Himself on the earth, can only send part of Himself at one time.

Oh, I get it. It took me a while. The word which is Jesus is not really God, because the word is just that which is spoken. So again, who is the Holy Spirit?

I am going to bed soon, so if I don't see your answer in a few minutes, I will look for it in the morning.
Click to expand...

THE WORD BECAME FLESH

GOD's PERSONAL WORD BECAME FLESH

THAT IS A LIFE
BUT THE WORD CAN ONLY DO AS IT WAS SPOKEN TO DO
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#249
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
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#249
VW said:
That doesn't work. We are talking about a life here. He said that He lays down His life. This is Jesus, walking and talking and breathing and dying and rising again for us. What a strange way you have of seeing God. So, who is the Holy Spirit? Is He the Father also? And so, the Father is the Son and also is the Holy Spirit? And that is why Jesus had to return to the Father, otherwise the Father would have too much of Himself on the earth, can only send part of Himself at one time.

Oh, I get it. It took me a while. The word which is Jesus is not really God, because the word is just that which is spoken. So again, who is the Holy Spirit?

I am going to bed soon, so if I don't see your answer in a few minutes, I will look for it in the morning.
Click to expand...

THE WORD BECAME FLESH

GOD's PERSONAL WORD BECAME FLESH

THAT IS A LIFE
BUT THE WORD CAN ONLY DO AS IT WAS SPOKEN TO DO

AND THE HOLY GHOST IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD

SO YOU HAVE
GOD
HIS WORD
HIS HOLY SPIRIT
3 FUNCTIONS IN ONE GOD NOT SEPARATE
BUT IN ONE BODY - MIND -SOUL
 
VW

VW

Banned
#250
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#250
joint-heir said:
THE WORD BECAME FLESH

GOD's PERSONAL WORD BECAME FLESH

THAT IS A LIFE
BUT THE WORD CAN ONLY DO AS IT WAS SPOKEN TO DO
Click to expand...
Okay, let's see if this is true. The verse just before John 10:18, verse 17 says, "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again." Now this is obvious that Jesus is not bound to lay down His life, that the Father loves Him because He chooses to lay it down. You are saying that Jesus does not have free will, that He can only do what the Father speaks, that He is an automaton. This is not born out by the testimony of the apostles. Jesus did what He did so that we would have an example to follow in our relationship with the Father, and He did this for us by His own choice. Hence the new commandment, to love one another even as He loves us.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#251
#251
So, lets recap--we agree that Jesus is God, we agree on the essential unity of God. We disagree with God and Jesus (and the Holy Spirit) being three persons. Now there are (not just one or two but) dozens of statements by Jesus which show that He considered Himself to be a separate person from God. This is supported by dozens of statements in the epistles. We have also a consistant apocalyptic record in which the Father and the Son are seen together but separate. All of this you dismiss based upon a super secret squirrel encoding in which all of these are automatically metaphoric or symbolic or whatever. (It must be ackward to always be retranslating scripture into your doctrinal language.) I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the closest description that can be made of the relationship between the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. So, what more do you have to support this other than this secret language.
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#252
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
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55
#252
charisenexcelcis said:
So, how does a representation take the scroll from the hand of the One who sits on the throne? The reading is quite clear as it stands.
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ITS LIKE A DREAM WE READ IN DANIEL OR OTHER VISIONS
WE READ ABOUT IN THE BIBLE

IT IS THE SYMBOLISM OF WHAT IS TAKING PLACE

TELL YOU WHAT

WHEN JESUS COMES IN POWER TO DEFEAT ANTICHRIST WITH HIS ELECT
AND
IF
HE IS IN THE FORM OF LAMB W/ 7 EYES AND 7 HORNS
ILL GIVE YOU MY MANSION
BUT
IM SURE THIS IS A SAFE BET
HE WILL BE COMING AS THE MAN
WHOSE RIGHT HAND WE SEEN FROM THE THRONE OF GOD
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#253
#253
joint-heir said:
ITS LIKE A DREAM WE READ IN DANIEL OR OTHER VISIONS
WE READ ABOUT IN THE BIBLE

IT IS THE SYMBOLISM OF WHAT IS TAKING PLACE

TELL YOU WHAT

WHEN JESUS COMES IN POWER TO DEFEAT ANTICHRIST WITH HIS ELECT
AND
IF
HE IS IN THE FORM OF LAMB W/ 7 EYES AND 7 HORNS
ILL GIVE YOU MY MANSION
BUT
IM SURE THIS IS A SAFE BET
HE WILL BE COMING AS THE MAN
WHOSE RIGHT HAND WE SEEN FROM THE THRONE OF GOD
Click to expand...
In your theology it is a symbol of God taking the scroll from God....
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#254
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
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55
#254
VW said:
Okay, let's see if this is true. The verse just before John 10:18, verse 17 says, "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again." Now this is obvious that Jesus is not bound to lay down His life, that the Father loves Him because He chooses to lay it down. You are saying that Jesus does not have free will, that He can only do what the Father speaks, that He is an automaton. This is not born out by the testimony of the apostles. Jesus did what He did so that we would have an example to follow in our relationship with the Father, and He did this for us by His own choice. Hence the new commandment, to love one another even as He loves us.
Click to expand...


WHAT DID JESUS DO TO OTHERS AND HIS DISCIPLES
THAT HE PREACHED FOR US TO DO...?

TO SERVE

GOD's SPOKEN WORD LAYS HIS LIFE DOWN
BECAUSE
THE WORD OF GOD SERVES THE ONE WHO SPOKE HIM INTO EXISTENCE
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#255
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
0
55
#255
charisenexcelcis said:
In your theology it is a symbol of God taking the scroll from God....
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NO THAT IS YOUR THEOLOGY SINCE YOU THINK THERE IS 3 PERSONS
SO TO YOU
GOD A
IS HANDING OFF TO GOD B AND C
SO THE SCROLL CAN BE READ

I AM SAYING THE -----WORD (LAMB + HOLY GHOST)-----
IS TAKING THE SCROLL
AND WHEN THE -----WORD-----READS IT
IT IS GOD (FATHER + HOLY GHOST) SPEAKING THRU HIS-----WORD-----
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#256
#256
joint-heir said:
NO THAT IS YOUR THEOLOGY SINCE YOU THINK THERE IS 3 PERSONS
SO TO YOU
GOD A
IS HANDING OFF TO GOD B AND C
SO THE SCROLL CAN BE READ

I AM SAYING THE -----WORD (LAMB + HOLY GHOST)-----
IS TAKING THE SCROLL
AND WHEN THE -----WORD-----READS IT
IT IS GOD (FATHER + HOLY GHOST) SPEAKING THRU HIS-----WORD-----
Click to expand...
And the hand of the One who sits on the Throne? Sorry, it's just more secret squirrel secret code stuff. When you are ready to study with the adults, let me know.....
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#257
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
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#257
charisenexcelcis said:
So, lets recap--we agree that Jesus is God, we agree on the essential unity of God. We disagree with God and Jesus (and the Holy Spirit) being three persons. Now there are (not just one or two but) dozens of statements by Jesus which show that He considered Himself to be a separate person from God. This is supported by dozens of statements in the epistles. We have also a consistant apocalyptic record in which the Father and the Son are seen together but separate. All of this you dismiss based upon a super secret squirrel encoding in which all of these are automatically metaphoric or symbolic or whatever. (It must be ackward to always be retranslating scripture into your doctrinal language.) I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the closest description that can be made of the relationship between the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. So, what more do you have to support this other than this secret language.
Click to expand...

NO I AM SAYING ACCORDING TO THESE SCRIPTURES

PROOF JESUS IS THE WORD
JOHN 1:1...In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD, and the WORD was GOD

JOHN 1:14...And the WORD was made flesh (JESUS)..........


PROOF JESUS IS THE FATHER
JOHN 14:8-11...Philip asks JESUS to shew US the FATHER. JESUS answers, Have I been with you so long
THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ME(THIS IS CLEAR EVIDENCE JESUS SAYING HE IS THE FATHER).
JESUS goes on to say IF YOU SEE ME YOU SEE THE FATHER IF YOU SEE THE FATHER YOU SEE ME
FOR I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME.

JOHN 10:30...I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE

PHILIPPIANS 2:7...BUT MADE HIMSELF...GOD SPOKE HIS WORD BECAME LIFE


PROOF HOLY GHOST IS JESUS
GALATIANS 4:6...And because ye are sons(WE ARE SONS OF GOD WHEN WE ACCEPT JESUS AND ARE BAPTIZED AND SAVED),
GOD hath sent forth the SPIRIT(NOTICE CAPITAL "S" INDICATING HOLY GHOST)
of his SON(JESUS - NOTICE THE CAPITAL "S"PIRIT(HOLY GHOST) IS THE SPIRIT OF JESUS) into your hearts,
crying, ABBA FATHER.


WHO IS SENDING THE HOLY GHOST TO US.......?
LUKE 24:49...JESUS SAYS I SEND THE PROMISE (HOLY GHOST) OF MY FATHER
JOHN 14:26...JESUS SAYS THE FATHER WILL SEND THE COMFORTER (HOLY GHOST) IN MY NAME
JOHN 15:26...JESUS SAYS I WILL SEND THE COMFORTER (HOLY GHOST) UNTO YOU
JOHN 16:7...JESUS SAYS I WILL SEND THE COMFORTER (HOLY GHOST) UNTO YOU

WE HAVE JESUS SAYING THAT HE / FATHER WILL SEND HOLY GHOST = JESUS IS SPEAKING THAT HE IS THE FATHER


COLOSSIANS 2:9... IN JESUS IS THE COMPLETE GODHEAD BODY (FATHER - WORD - HOLY GHOST)

1 JOHN 5:6-7... WHEN ON EARTH JESUS WAS (WATER - BLOOD - SPIRIT)
WHEN IN HEAVEN JESUS IS (FATHER - WORD - HOLY GHOST)


JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER THE WORD AND THE HOLY GHOST
 
joint-heir

joint-heir

Banned
#259
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
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#259
GOD BLESS EVERYONE
I MUST RETIRE FOR THE EVENING
AND BE UP EARLY TO GET READY FOR TONIGHT SERVICE
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#260
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#260
joint_heir, where do you think people who are baptised in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit (i.e. the Trinity) are going, heaven to hell? You seem to be avoiding this question.
 
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