The words of "others"

[KennethC]

Yes amen, I too think it is obvious! Some seem to be relentless with the attacking and cannot let go, even though the environment is completely spoiled for everybody. Also it doesn't take too many braincells to figure out the nice humble people from the arrogant ones who just want everyone to listen to them - when they should be listening to God.

When I was saved, I had never read the Bible, so all I knew was what the Holy Spirit was telling me. I sure made up for lost time though and it was amazingly wonderful to me that the Lord would speak so personally and specifically to me through His word. I am so glad He didn't require me to be biblically perfect before I was saved, because it could never have happened. All the drudgery of study without the Holy Spirit has been spared me, thank the Lord, now it is part of the wonderful substance of my relationship with Him.

You know what, I think it makes people angry when they see we have all we need through the Holy Spirit without having worked for any of it. It is like they want to tell us we are immature and unlearned because THEY have put the hours in to understand everything and THEY are therefore the ones who DESERVE to be teachers. LOL!!!

Last time I looked, salvation is not of WORKS (lest any man should boast...AHEM!!!) but by grace through faith. What we have received, why would we boast when it wasn't ours in the first place to boast in?

I wanted to rep you for this comment but it said I had to spread it around first, but yes this absolutely right as knowledge does not come by what we do but what the Holy Spirit does within and for us. It's all about His guidance and He does not bring everybody to the knowledge of God in the same ways.

 

[KennethC]

Well, since you obviously admit to not knowing the Bible very well. And since you never post the Bible, another sure sign of ignorance I will let you know a few things that maybe you have not encountered in the Word, since you seem to be stuck off in the experiential, anything goes land.

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word" 2 Tim. 2:15

"16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16-17

So the Bible is our standard, our guide and God expects us to know it and follow it. The problem with thinking that your personal experiences are more important than God's Word, is then there is no objective standard to judge and discern right and wrong. That is how the Word Faith got going, and how the excesses of the charismatic revivals became chaotic wild and scary free-for- alls. Quite simply, God is not the author of these Dionysian excesses.

"For God is not a God of confusion but of peace." 1 Cor. 14:33

I am so glad that I have both the Word of God to refer to, and the Holy Spirit leading and guiding my life. Because as some of you Pentecostal/charismatic types just don't seem to get, you cannot be a Christian without the Holy Spirit.

"9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you." Romans 8:9-11

Sadly, I have to wonder if the fruits are there in some of your lives who claim to be given totally all the knowledge you will ever need through just some kind of imparted wisdom supposedly from the Holy Spirit. Because it seems there is a lack of love, paranoia, black and white thinking, in this thread and others, and extreme defensiveness where none is needed.

And I do wonder if these so-called "spirit" led people have missed one of Jesus most important final words before he went to the cross.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Matt 25:34-40

So have you visited the sick, the elderly, those in prison? Have your fed the hungry, given water to the thirsty, or clothed a naked person? These are not works, but the fruit which is born when the Holy Spirit is in your heart and life. Not jumping up and down, rolling in the aisles, babbling nonsense and edifying yourself, instead of glorifying God.

Really, it all comes back to this ignorant arrogance, and thinking that you are some kind of special elite, because you dance in the aisles and feel shivers down your spine. This could be demonic in some cases. But ALL believers have the gift of the Holy Spirit when they are saved, that is the gospel truth.

"16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:16-17

The word Helper, above is the παράκλητον or paraklatos. That is the Comforter, the Encourager or the Advocate. It is the promise of Jesus to send the Holy Spirit to ALL believers when he ascended into heaven. I am so glad I have both the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide and lead me in all truth.

You said I was on ignore but I can still see your response and here you are attacking another person and saying you wonder if the fruits of the Holy Spirit is in their life.

Those fruits are love, compassion, long suffering, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self-control, and faithfulness; Not attacking other people and calling them ignorant !!!


I love you sister but we must all learn to be slow to speak, as such things like this comes about !!!


P.S.--- (Acts 5:32)"And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

God's word says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him, what is there to obey if the Holy Spirit is given at minute one of faith that comes from hearing the word and trusting what it said ??? There has to be something done in the faith to make this scripture speak truth, and there is as Peter shows in Acts 2:38, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

(Ken in response to Convallaria...)

I wanted to rep you for this comment but it said I had to spread it around first, but yes this absolutely right as knowledge does not come by what we do but what the Holy Spirit does within and for us. It's all about His guidance and He does not bring everybody to the knowledge of God in the same ways.

Perhaps you wanted to rep the latter portion of what she said, but don't forget, she prefaced her words with:

Some seem to be relentless with the attacking and cannot let go, even though the environment is completely spoiled for everybody. Also it doesn't take too many braincells to figure out the nice humble people from the arrogant ones who just want everyone to listen to them - when they should be listening to God.

And then you go on to challenge Angela's attitude:

You said I was on ignore but I can still see your response and here you are attacking another person and saying you wonder if the fruits of the Holy Spirit is in their life.

Those fruits are love, compassion, long suffering, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self-control, and faithfulness; Not attacking other people and calling them ignorant !!!

Essentially, what this looks like to me, is that you are supporting one member who is (still) attacking others, while chastising another for the same. You cannot hold a white flag in one hand and a bazooka in the other.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Funny how people read things into a persons post when they never said such a thing, and then they turn around and still try to blame the other person and even make a condemning statement on them when they never made one against them.

Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do !!!

You just did it.
He just did it.
She just did it.
Most of us have done it.

Some are willing to recognize and be humbled.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

There's a huge difference between what one says they believe & what they actually stand for. In this forum, it's obvious.

I agree with the first part of your statement, but disagree with the latter -- it's not always so obvious. In fact, often times people are so misunderstood on these forums -- I'd argue that you have no idea what they really 'stand for'.

There is also a big difference in what a person says compared to what another reads into what was said and gets the wrong understanding. This is why we should ask questions to one another instead of just assume they have said something.

^This.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Since you want to talk about Angela, let's tell the readers of how she was once a member of a much rougher pack with a leader by the name of zone. Christian Chat Rooms & Forums - View Profile: zone. Check out any thread that speaks about the gifts of the Spirit, continuationism, anything pentecostal, etc.

Like I said in an earlier post, who you stand with says a lot about you. I welcome the readers to see for themselves the truth..... no twisting required.

^ This is nothing more than gossip.

Stephen, I challenge you to look at people through God's "eyes", not through your human eyes.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

[h=3]James 1:26 ESV [/h]If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

[h=3]Proverbs 15:1 ESV[/h]A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

 

[KennethC]

(Ken in response to Convallaria...)


Perhaps you wanted to rep the latter portion of what she said, but don't forget, she prefaced her words with:



And then you go on to challenge Angela's attitude:



Essentially, what this looks like to me, is that you are supporting one member who is (still) attacking others, while chastising another for the same. You cannot hold a white flag in one hand and a bazooka in the other.

Yes the rep was for the last part of what she said, and even though I may not agree with how she worded it I do agree that some seem to want to continue to attack without letting go even though they have been admonished and told exactly by the person what they were really saying a couple of times.

I don't how many times three people on here have tried to hold the Catholic church over me just because I admitted I was in that church for 5 years. Even though I have stated multiple times their doctrine has not affected me, and I left because of the errors they still can not stop trying to hold that on me.

You just did it.
He just did it.
She just did it.
Most of us have done it.

Some are willing to recognize and be humbled.

If I have a question on what a person has said or stated I ask them a question if that is what they meant.
However if they say something straight out there is no need to ask a question cause it is there in black and white, however the reading something into what a person wrote that is not there is not that quite simple.

When a person reads into what a wrote and states things that was not said it raises questions with me, and maybe I shouldn't think this way, but if they read something I didn't say into my words then they probably do that with scriptures as well.

 

[KennethC]

James 1:26 ESV

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

Proverbs 15:1 ESV

A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

I love these scriptures but the funny thing is about the Proverb one is that I use soft words and still get wrath thrown my way.
One even claimed that my mind is dark, even though I speak on love, mercy, and forgiveness all the time, and the last time I checked attributing the fruits/works of the Spirit to that of being dark/evil is very dangerous.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I love these scriptures but the funny thing is about the Proverb one is that I use soft words and still get wrath thrown my way.

Perhaps due to misunderstandings. Perhaps due to events beyond our present understanding.

Regardless, I feel saddened when a brother or sister is hurt by words written in anger.

One even claimed that my mind is dark, even though I speak on love, mercy, and forgiveness all the time, and the last time I checked attributing the fruits/works of the Spirit to that of being dark/evil is very dangerous.

Translation:
Person X accuses Person Y of being dark.
Person Y thinks Person Y is full of love, mercy, and forgiveness.
Person Y thinks Person X is in danger for letting Person Y know that Person X thinks Person Y is dark.

Response:
Did you ever stop to ponder WHY Person X thought you had a dark mind?
Did you ask them?

 

[slave]

It's simple isn't it?!.....Practice makes perfect right?!! If we practice the truths of God thru the Word or others reflexion of the Word it's all good right?!! Wrong! Practice makes permanent not perfect. What we practice is just as important as whether we do it or not. So if we practice perfection, it adheres to us. If we practice anything else other than the narrow purity of God found available to us thru the Cross and the Spirit of God, and thru our own ownership of our wills role in our intake of truth, we will be practicing imperfection, which in turn will also cement itself to us. Practice makes permanent not perfect.

So this thread asks: "should we basically 'over-criticize' writings and teachings not found in Scripture itself but of men?" The only contention to that judgement should be found in what it is they write or preach. Is it Christ on a cross? Is it the muddied truth along with the glorious truth? Is it to appeal to God or to men for Gods sake? God tells us to control our mind individually, to work out our own salvation,[ not to be confused with make up your own religion]. Or even to allow someone else to form it for you. "The end of all things is at hand: therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers." 1 Peter 4:7. In other words, know who it is to ask the truth of and ask of Him and no one else.

So not only is truth outlined by God to be Jesus Christ Himself but also the Spirit of God found in us has it's purifying work as well: The Holy Ghost which works to direct and convict. The Spirit in us reassures the truth and transforms our thinking into God's way of thinking when submitted to God, and only when submitted to God. Satan can read the bible too and lie with the same words Scripture uses. So not only is it imperative to see Christ Himself on a cross as our example over all else, it must be in His Spirit, or subtle shifts in truths conclusions from Satan's influence will befall us. "Do not be conformed to this World [herein lyes the non-perfection practices, even subtly so], but be transformed by the renewal of our mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Romans 12:2.

If we can only serve one of two masters we need to ask ourselves even in here from what Spirit do we ask our questions from? The Spirit that is in defense of my right to myself? Or the Spirit that is in defense of the right to serve our Lord? "Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life." Proverbs 4:23.

Can we except other people in way of writing and preaching? Of coarse! Is it necessary to ask for decline in it's guarding of influence? Absolutely not! For we need to understand where our treasure is there our heart is also. And where your heart is there too go your feet. Our diligence in our thoughts and hearts are God's commands, and the premise by which our Spirit choice is ultimately rendered. Can I defend the writings of others outside of the bible? If they are aligned with God --absolutely! God has made just such a mission of men. But, "Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God." 2 John 1:9.

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but it's end is the way to death." Proverbs 14:12. And Satan lights up like an angel, he draws men to himself thru flowery language and great logical arguments, yet lacking truth. Satan's writers will be award winners and even shine in their personalities, but if God felt need to repeat this maybe we should heed it's warning: "As we have said before, so now I say again; if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:9.

"Do your best to present yourself to God, then, as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the Word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15. Practice makes permanent not perfect, be diligent to practice perfection and God will adhere it to yourself. Be careful to not be swayed by the lights and flash of any other alternatives, for they are lies and there ways have a deadly consequence. "For such people are false prophets, deceitful workers, masquerading as Apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an Angel of light." 2 Cor. 11:13-14.

 

[convallaria]

Well, since you obviously admit to not knowing the Bible very well. And since you never post the Bible, another sure sign of ignorance I will let you know a few things that maybe you have not encountered in the Word, since you seem to be stuck off in the experiential, anything goes land.

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word" 2 Tim. 2:15

"16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16-17

So the Bible is our standard, our guide and God expects us to know it and follow it. The problem with thinking that your personal experiences are more important than God's Word, is then there is no objective standard to judge and discern right and wrong. That is how the Word Faith got going, and how the excesses of the charismatic revivals became chaotic wild and scary free-for- alls. Quite simply, God is not the author of these Dionysian excesses.

"For God is not a God of confusion but of peace." 1 Cor. 14:33

I am so glad that I have both the Word of God to refer to, and the Holy Spirit leading and guiding my life. Because as some of you Pentecostal/charismatic types just don't seem to get, you cannot be a Christian without the Holy Spirit.

"9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you." Romans 8:9-11

Sadly, I have to wonder if the fruits are there in some of your lives who claim to be given totally all the knowledge you will ever need through just some kind of imparted wisdom supposedly from the Holy Spirit. Because it seems there is a lack of love, paranoia, black and white thinking, in this thread and others, and extreme defensiveness where none is needed.

And I do wonder if these so-called "spirit" led people have missed one of Jesus most important final words before he went to the cross.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Matt 25:34-40

So have you visited the sick, the elderly, those in prison? Have your fed the hungry, given water to the thirsty, or clothed a naked person? These are not works, but the fruit which is born when the Holy Spirit is in your heart and life. Not jumping up and down, rolling in the aisles, babbling nonsense and edifying yourself, instead of glorifying God.

Really, it all comes back to this ignorant arrogance, and thinking that you are some kind of special elite, because you dance in the aisles and feel shivers down your spine. This could be demonic in some cases. But ALL believers have the gift of the Holy Spirit when they are saved, that is the gospel truth.

"16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:16-17

The word Helper, above is the παράκλητον or paraklatos. That is the Comforter, the Encourager or the Advocate. It is the promise of Jesus to send the Holy Spirit to ALL believers when he ascended into heaven. I am so glad I have both the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide and lead me in all truth.

GOSH you are really horrible and quite without any perception.

I was saved 28 years ago and of course I didn't know the Bible at all then. Since then, as I said, I have made up for lost time, even being CRITICIZED for reading it too much...in all those 28 years, getting to know that what the Lord planted in me was in fact all written in His word.

You seem incapable of reading a post on here without misinterpreting it. Why would that be? You claim to have the Holy Spirit but I am wondering what kind of spirit it is that leads you into such arrogance, that you would attack people who clearly know by experience the testimony of Jesus, as opposed to all that head knowledge you like to boast in.

Perhaps you would like to tell us what happened when you "received the Holy Spirit" as you claim. I could talk all night about my experiences because they are a source of constant joy and full of revelation.

How about you?

 

[convallaria]

I wanted to rep you for this comment but it said I had to spread it around first, but yes this absolutely right as knowledge does not come by what we do but what the Holy Spirit does within and for us. It's all about His guidance and He does not bring everybody to the knowledge of God in the same ways.

Thanks Ken!!

 

[convallaria]

^ This is nothing more than gossip.

Stephen, I challenge you to look at people through God's "eyes", not through your human eyes.

PW when you finally see through God's eyes you will fall into line with Him and His Word and with all people who speak by the Spirit.

 

[KennethC]

Perhaps due to misunderstandings. Perhaps due to events beyond our present understanding.

Regardless, I feel saddened when a brother or sister is hurt by words written in anger.



Translation:
Person X accuses Person Y of being dark.
Person Y thinks Person Y is full of love, mercy, and forgiveness.
Person Y thinks Person X is in danger for letting Person Y know that Person X thinks Person Y is dark.

Response:
Did you ever stop to ponder WHY Person X thought you had a dark mind?
Did you ask them?

Yes I did and it did not get anywhere because they think anybody who does not agree with OSAS is of the faith in Jesus.
They feel that if you are not in that doctrine you are condemned, and they even said they feel they have every right to make that judgment call on another.

 

[slave]

I wanted to rep you for this comment but it said I had to spread it around first, but yes this absolutely right as knowledge does not come by what we do but what the Holy Spirit does within and for us. It's all about His guidance and He does not bring everybody to the knowledge of God in the same ways.

Nicely said, and I would add...but He will bring us all eventually, by whichever path we travel, to the same truth, .. Garbage in Garbage out is different than the road travelled to truth, or our story as it were.. Garbage in, will ruin us if remained in us. Hence, the conviction and transformation of the Holy Spirit in us. But the transforming principles of the Holy Spirit will give us the perfection in... perfection out... conclusion by way of the Spirit -filled life..God's narrow purity seen in us, that ironically we couldn't get in us any other way, except by the Spirit, for we can not gain it in our old existence, or in our new existence except by way of God opening up our understanding unto Himself. And, now, thru Christ on a cross we can actually live up to accomplishing it in our walk on this planet.

God has given all of us our own story, which ends up in His story.

 

[convallaria]

(Ken in response to Convallaria...)


Perhaps you wanted to rep the latter portion of what she said, but don't forget, she prefaced her words with:



And then you go on to challenge Angela's attitude:



Essentially, what this looks like to me, is that you are supporting one member who is (still) attacking others, while chastising another for the same. You cannot hold a white flag in one hand and a bazooka in the other.

Harassing and attacking GIVE IT UP!!!!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

PW when you finally see through God's eyes you will fall into line with Him and His Word and with all people who speak by the Spirit.

How am I supposed to receive this, Convallaria?

Should I take it to mean that you are implying that God is not with me? That I do not attempt to view others through God's eyes, but am stuck in my own human understanding? Do I take it to mean that you are implying that Brother Stephen63 is filled with the Holy Spirit, while I am not? Do I take it to mean that you still claim that I am not saved?

GOSH you are really horrible and quite without any perception.

You seem incapable of reading a post on here without misinterpreting it. Why would that be? You claim to have the Holy Spirit but I am wondering what kind of spirit it is that leads you into such arrogance, that you would attack people who clearly know by experience the testimony of Jesus, as opposed to all that head knowledge you like to boast in.

Perhaps you would like to tell us what happened when you "received the Holy Spirit" as you claim. I could talk all night about my experiences because they are a source of constant joy and full of revelation.

How is sister Angela to receive your words? They look an awful lot like words of anger -- an attack, if you will.

Why do you continue to focus on the person and the person's character, while refusing to address the person's actual words?

Harassing and attacking GIVE IT UP!!!!

I respectfully addressed, responded to, and challenged Brother Stephen's words. Do you see any error in my response to him? I fail to see how my response to Brother Stephen can be called "harassing and attacking".

Furthermore, why are you even addressing me? You asked me repeatedly to stop "liking" your posts -- to stop all forms of communication with you -- yet you continue (daily) to address me. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you wish for me to cease communication with you (ignore you) then please return the favor.

Myself (along with many others) are doing our best to squash these ridiculous arguments.
When will you join us?

 

[ember]

Originally Posted by Billyd

Ken, everything that you post appears to me (and most others) to be "I am right because the Holy Spirit told me so". Whether you believe it or not, most people here are guided by the same Holy Spirit that you claim to have. I'm sorry if that is not what you intend it to be. It is what it seems to be.

I disagree with this also...I have exchanged civil posts with Ken and even though we do not always agree, the problem is how some respond

I honestly do NOT see him saying "I am right because the Holy Spirit told me so"

yeah, I just don't really see that and I am wondering why some do see that?

ps..not taking sides...just my honest observation

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I disagree with this also...I have exchanged civil posts with Ken and even though we do not always agree, the problem is how some respond

I honestly do NOT see him saying "I am right because the Holy Spirit told me so"

yeah, I just don't really see that and I am wondering why some do see that?

ps..not taking sides...just my honest observation

There are no "sides".

Responding to your line of thought would be futile.

This is exactly the sort of "talk" that we need to SQUASH on this forum, in general.

We're talking ABOUT members, instead of TO or WITH members -- this needs to change, and now!