The words of "others"

[KennethC]

I'm glad you're back. I thought I recognized the name. A lot of our members have left in the last few months because of the anger stirred when discussing those topics.

Yes and a few of them have told me they were leaving and then left because they were tired of the false allegations and belittling of others going on here in those heated debates.

I was going to leave myself and even had my original account deleted, but in saying my goodbyes before it was deleted a number of people asked me to stay because of my calmness and standing up to those behaviors on here.

 

[convallaria]

Yes and a few of them have told me they were leaving and then left because they were tired of the false allegations and belittling of others going on here in those heated debates.

I was going to leave myself and even had my original account deleted, but in saying my goodbyes before it was deleted a number of people asked me to stay because of my calmness and standing up to those behaviors on here.

I felt the same Ken, but I decided to press on....I hope you will too

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I'm glad you're back. I thought I recognized the name. A lot of our members have left in the last few months because of the anger stirred when discussing those topics.

It's really not the anger that drove me away. In my case, it's more that I hate to waste my time and it honestly seems that that's pretty much all that I do when I participate in forums like this...and I've been doing the same for about the last 10 or 11 years. Only God knows, I suppose, whether or not all of my labor has been in vain, but it certainly feels that way to me. I've almost cancelled my account a few times in just the last few days, but I'll probably keep it active and just not participate too often. IOW, I'll just look for spots where I might actually be able to help somebody or be helped by somebody myself. That sounds good...let's see if I can stick to it or not.

 

[KennethC]

First of all, I'm far from innocent myself in that I've gone back and forth with certain individuals more times than I should have in the past. I'm determined not to go that route anymore and to try to utilize whatever time that I actually spend here more effectively by seeking to discuss the things of God with those who genuinely seem to be interested in the same. Now, that will sound "judgmental", but I really don't care. I'm of the firm conviction that several forum members here revel in strife and some here are also wannabe preachers who stand upon their soap boxes and preach the most ridiculous things. I read a post yesterday that advertised itself as being an eye-opener and I wanted to pluck out my own eyes and eat them after reading just the first few sentences. It's hard to overcome the temptation to engage such folks because there's always this inward hope that you might be able to reason with them, but I'm seriously going to try to avoid the same and seek out those who might help me in my own walk with Christ as I also hopefully help them in their walk with Christ. It's probably a pipedream, but, hey, it just might work. I think that I'm done for the night.

There is nothing wrong with going back and forth in friendly respectful debates with others as that helps build on spiritual growth. The point though is that in those debates there is no reason to take it to a level of anger, belittling, and demeaning of some in front of others.

I have seen a number of debates from biblical scholars who disagreed with each other, but in their debates they continued to stay friendly and even laughed during the debate as they made jokes to make the discussion interesting and such. I love watching those style of debates because it shows even though our differences love is still behind the discussion.

 

[KennethC]

I felt the same Ken, but I decided to press on....I hope you will too

I am going to stand strong for those who have asked me to stay.

 

[Angela53510]

I am done conversing with you as again you make blatant false allegations, as it was only you and a couple others who read that into it without asking.

For I also have a couple others who have mentioned that they did not read what you have read in my responses.

Secondly I never said you personally, as I was saying "those" not "all".

So I am done speaking to you and will not respond again to you unless you can refrain from the false allegations.

Can you say "defensiveness much??"

By constantly refusing to take responsibility for what you have written in your own posts, or look at the log in your own eye, you have brought judgment and condemnation down on yourself.

"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. [SUP]2 [/SUP]We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?" Romans 2:1-3

I'm through. You are on ignore. Have a happy life!

 

[KennethC]

Funny how people read things into a persons post when they never said such a thing, and then they turn around and still try to blame the other person and even make a condemning statement on them when they never made one against them.

Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do !!!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

That was too close to MOCKING for my liking

Sincerely,
PW

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Once again, my "likes" do not necessarily mean I agree with the post -- I understand.

 

[Utah]

I am going to stand strong for those who have asked me to stay.

Most everyone wants you to stay. Me included. Relax.

 

[Stephen63]

Who says I am a cessationist? YOU!

I am not against speaking in tongues, as I have said many times, when it is done the Biblical way. In other words, a person speaks a language they do not know, and another person hears it and they know the language. Usually resulting in salvation for the person who hears it. That is the pattern set down in Acts.

I am not against miracles. Why would we pray if we did not expect God to answer? Just not in the Word Faith, arrogant name it and claim it way - God answers our prayers when it is his good will. It is not our words that create miracles, but a holy and sovereign and Almighty God.

I believe in signs. Just not the rolling in the aisles, dog barking, confusion and nonsense. God speaks to us clearly today. Sometimes he uses the small still voice, and sometimes he gives us a sign. However, like Gideon, I think signs are highly overused, and needing them are generally a sign of lack of faith, and a deep walk with Christ.

Rather than seeking the "outer" things, which were necessary at the birth of the church, God has left us with his Word and the Holy Spirit. There is nothing more exciting than seeing the Holy Spirit work in people's lives to heal people, to restore them, and to save them. And then that abiding peace that comes from knowing God and walking with him.

I see no where in the bible, including Acts, where frenzy and wild behaviour is a sign of God's presence. In fact, that is more like the priestesses of Artemis in Ephesus, who liked to whip their followers into hysteria, so they thought they had "experienced" the presence of their goddess. (Not necessarily talking about your church, Stephen, just what I have seen in WoF and some charismatic churches - personally, not on videos!)

And I am totally against the Word of Faith heresy. Wait, I said that already here, and a thousand times elsewhere. Not going into that again, unless a new thread needs to have the Biblical exegesis on that topic.

Soo sorry! I assumed you were 'cuz of the crowd you run with, lol!

 

[Utah]

Soo sorry! I assumed you were 'cuz of the crowd you run with, lol!

Which Crowd? Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Yes, that's the Crowd she runs with.

 

[KennethC]

Most everyone wants you to stay. Me included. Relax.

I know and thank you and I have my issues and struggles still just like everybody does.

One of those issues is dealing with people who say something I didn't say, and keep posting the same false allegations against me even though I stated more than once to them that is not what I said and ask them to please stop.

I am working on it though by the Holy Spirit and I will try to just walk away for now on !!!

 

[Stephen63]

As far as Gamaliel, I should remind you that after Jesus rose again, no one recognized him, including his own mother and disciples. Nothing to do with ignorance or education. Just that Jesus reveals himself to whomever he wants! I always felt sorry for Gamaliel, hanging there on the edge, but never jumping into the water and getting wet!

Actually, I was speaking of before the crucifixion..... He HAD to have seen Jesus during His three years of ministry. What important Jew didn't see Him?

But that does not mean I will stand back and be assaulted because I do not agree with some of the outrageous heresies being posted in this forum. I will stand for Biblical truth against subjective experiences. And I do trust God in everything. If not, would I be a servant of God?

There's a huge difference between what one says they believe & what they actually stand for. In this forum, it's obvious.

 

[KennethC]

Actually, I was speaking of before the crucifixion..... He HAD to have seen Jesus during His three years of ministry. What important Jew didn't see Him?


There's a huge difference between what one says they believe & what they actually stand for. In this forum, it's obvious.

There is also a big difference in what a person says compared to what another reads into what was said and gets the wrong understanding. This is why we should ask questions to one another instead of just assume they have said something.

I stand for the pure Word of God, Love, Mercy, and Forgiveness !!!

 

[Stephen63]

Ken, everything that you post appears to me (and most others) to be "I am right because the Holy Spirit told me so". Whether you believe it or not, most people here are guided by the same Holy Spirit that you claim to have. I'm sorry if that is not what you intend it to be. It is what it seems to be.

I read & reread his statements..... & it more than "appears" to me that you, as well as your pack, all have twisted KennethC's statement to paint him as a uneducated heretic. I recognize these tactics, because this little game has been played on me several times for the same effect.

For the record, I want to ask the readers..... why would such a group use such cold-hearted moves to make someone "appear" this way? Don't they have legitimate, spiritual methods of proving themselves? It "appears" they may not, eh?

When Angela posts a comment, it always seems to be supported by scriptures, and by other well documented works and usually includes links to her source. This is very much in line with the way the Holy Spirit works in my life. When I have a question, she has always answered it. We don't always agree, but I believe that we respect each others comments. I also believe that most others feel the same way.

I love the way you wrote "seems". It shows habitual use of these words, as well as ironically stating the truth..... it only seems that way.

I've seen false doctrine that seems to line up with the working of the Holy Spirit before. It means nothing.

Since you want to talk about Angela, let's tell the readers of how she was once a member of a much rougher pack with a leader by the name of zone. Christian Chat Rooms & Forums - View Profile: zone. Check out any thread that speaks about the gifts of the Spirit, continuationism, anything pentecostal, etc.

Like I said in an earlier post, who you stand with says a lot about you. I welcome the readers to see for themselves the truth..... no twisting required.

 

[convallaria]

Actually, I was speaking of before the crucifixion..... He HAD to have seen Jesus during His three years of ministry. What important Jew didn't see Him?


There's a huge difference between what one says they believe & what they actually stand for. In this forum, it's obvious.

Yes amen, I too think it is obvious! Some seem to be relentless with the attacking and cannot let go, even though the environment is completely spoiled for everybody. Also it doesn't take too many braincells to figure out the nice humble people from the arrogant ones who just want everyone to listen to them - when they should be listening to God.

When I was saved, I had never read the Bible, so all I knew was what the Holy Spirit was telling me. I sure made up for lost time though and it was amazingly wonderful to me that the Lord would speak so personally and specifically to me through His word. I am so glad He didn't require me to be biblically perfect before I was saved, because it could never have happened. All the drudgery of study without the Holy Spirit has been spared me, thank the Lord, now it is part of the wonderful substance of my relationship with Him.

You know what, I think it makes people angry when they see we have all we need through the Holy Spirit without having worked for any of it. It is like they want to tell us we are immature and unlearned because THEY have put the hours in to understand everything and THEY are therefore the ones who DESERVE to be teachers. LOL!!!

Last time I looked, salvation is not of WORKS (lest any man should boast...AHEM!!!) but by grace through faith. What we have received, why would we boast when it wasn't ours in the first place to boast in?

 

[convallaria]

There is also a big difference in what a person says compared to what another reads into what was said and gets the wrong understanding. This is why we should ask questions to one another instead of just assume they have said something.

I stand for the pure Word of God, Love, Mercy, and Forgiveness !!!

Amen Kenneth, and I am standing with you!

 

[Angela53510]

Yes amen, I too think it is obvious! Some seem to be relentless with the attacking and cannot let go, even though the environment is completely spoiled for everybody. Also it doesn't take too many braincells to figure out the nice humble people from the arrogant ones who just want everyone to listen to them - when they should be listening to God.

When I was saved, I had never read the Bible, so all I knew was what the Holy Spirit was telling me. I sure made up for lost time though and it was amazingly wonderful to me that the Lord would speak so personally and specifically to me through His word. I am so glad He didn't require me to be biblically perfect before I was saved, because it could never have happened. All the drudgery of study without the Holy Spirit has been spared me, thank the Lord, now it is part of the wonderful substance of my relationship with Him.

You know what, I think it makes people angry when they see we have all we need through the Holy Spirit without having worked for any of it. It is like they want to tell us we are immature and unlearned because THEY have put the hours in to understand everything and THEY are therefore the ones who DESERVE to be teachers. LOL!!!

Last time I looked, salvation is not of WORKS (lest any man should boast...AHEM!!!) but by grace through faith. What we have received, why would we boast when it wasn't ours in the first place to boast in?

Well, since you obviously admit to not knowing the Bible very well. And since you never post the Bible, another sure sign of ignorance I will let you know a few things that maybe you have not encountered in the Word, since you seem to be stuck off in the experiential, anything goes land.

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word" 2 Tim. 2:15

"16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16-17

So the Bible is our standard, our guide and God expects us to know it and follow it. The problem with thinking that your personal experiences are more important than God's Word, is then there is no objective standard to judge and discern right and wrong. That is how the Word Faith got going, and how the excesses of the charismatic revivals became chaotic wild and scary free-for- alls. Quite simply, God is not the author of these Dionysian excesses.

"For God is not a God of confusion but of peace." 1 Cor. 14:33

I am so glad that I have both the Word of God to refer to, and the Holy Spirit leading and guiding my life. Because as some of you Pentecostal/charismatic types just don't seem to get, you cannot be a Christian without the Holy Spirit.

"9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you." Romans 8:9-11

Sadly, I have to wonder if the fruits are there in some of your lives who claim to be given totally all the knowledge you will ever need through just some kind of imparted wisdom supposedly from the Holy Spirit. Because it seems there is a lack of love, paranoia, black and white thinking, in this thread and others, and extreme defensiveness where none is needed.

And I do wonder if these so-called "spirit" led people have missed one of Jesus most important final words before he went to the cross.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Matt 25:34-40

So have you visited the sick, the elderly, those in prison? Have your fed the hungry, given water to the thirsty, or clothed a naked person? These are not works, but the fruit which is born when the Holy Spirit is in your heart and life. Not jumping up and down, rolling in the aisles, babbling nonsense and edifying yourself, instead of glorifying God.

Really, it all comes back to this ignorant arrogance, and thinking that you are some kind of special elite, because you dance in the aisles and feel shivers down your spine. This could be demonic in some cases. But ALL believers have the gift of the Holy Spirit when they are saved, that is the gospel truth.

"16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." John 14:16-17

The word Helper, above is the παράκλητον or paraklatos. That is the Comforter, the Encourager or the Advocate. It is the promise of Jesus to send the Holy Spirit to ALL believers when he ascended into heaven. I am so glad I have both the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to guide and lead me in all truth.

 

[Angela53510]

PS I could never be "jealous" of people having something I don't have, where the Holy Spirit is concerned. Because I do have the Holy Spirit in my life, since the day God saved me. Contrary to popular opinion in charismatic circles, people have the Holy Spirit from the moment they are saved. They believe and the Holy Spirit comes into their lives. My salvation was dramatic, God delivered me from a life of drinking and sin, and replaced it with an incredible joy and peace. And he called me to study the Word of God, which is a huge joy in my life, each day, as God teaches me, through the Word, through fellowship and teaching, through the writings of great teachers, both old and new, and through the leading of the Holy Spirit in all these things.