U.S. Supreme Court declines stay 4 clerk refusing to issue gay marriage certificates

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Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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Would you say it is religious freedom if it were a Muslim clerk supporting sharia law? Like refusing women drivers licences?

Yes, I would. I would disagree with what they are doing, and think its unjust, but I would agree that they have their rights too, and would not demand that that muslim be thrown into prison for it. Would just ask that someone else be brought in to do the job :p


And yeah others have rights, and this woman still has her right to not sign the papers without being punished for it.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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A commentary blog on "why all the vitriol? "


"It is not an uncommon thing to see people online react with anger and vitriol on the net but the current anger on the net over the Kim Davis case seemingly doesn’t make sense.

For those of you who don’t know Kim Davis is the Kentucky Clerk, an elected official, who has steadfastly refused to issue marriage licences defying the Supreme & federal courts unless her name is removed from them.

The liberal left was up in arms at the sight of this single County clerk in the nation, a Democrat no less, standing up when every single other clerk had folded. The media has been on full alert, the editorial pages have been merciless as have pols on the left.

On Thursday the judge in the case gave her one last chance to fold her card, she declined saying it was a heaven or hell issue to her. So the judge had her jailed, meanwhile four of her five deputies agreed to issue the licences to gay couples as he commanded and on Friday began doing so.

So the license are being issues and the person who blocked them is in jail for not doing so.

One would think the left and their allies would be absolutely thrilled, not only did they get what they wanted but the perfidious woman who stopped them is even now suffering the wrath of the federal government as an example to others:

The court assumed, not unreasonably, that sympathizers would shower her with cash to cover the fine, which means there’d be no real pressure on her to comply with the order to begin issuing licenses. The only way to pressure her was jail.

In fact Kim Davis has become an example to others but not in the way the judge had intended, but in the way the left has feared. In fact her actions sound just so familiar…

And I have not rebelled, have not turned back. I gave my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who plucked my beard; My face I did not shield from buffets and spitting. The Lord GOD is my help, therefore I am not disgraced; I have set my face like flint, knowing that I shall not be put to shame. He is near who upholds my right; if anyone wishes to oppose me, let us appear together. Who disputes my right? Let him confront me.

Kim Davis has gone to jail without fear, without complaint. She did not scream defiant curses, she did not call for violence in her name. Her only worry was disobedience to the Lord.

She has set an example to that has put us who have given in to sin or temptation to shame and in doing so has reminded every Christian in the nation of their duty, not to defy the state per say, but to defy the temptation to take the easy route of sin vs the hard route of virtue.

And that is why the vitriol online has grown exponentially even has the left has seemingly gotten what they want, because in fact they have not.

It wasn’t the licences for gay couples to wed that they wanted, it was her submission to the religion of liberalism on the altar of gay marriage in fear and terror, it was the willingness to toss away Christ for the comfort of her home. It was her declaration that resistance to the new order is futile.

The supporters of Gay Marriage have likened their movement to the civil rights movement, yet it’s Kim Davis, their opponent that has gone to jail for doing what many Black Pastors were unwilling to do in 2012, braved public scorn for Christ.

No wonder the left is so angry.

Final thought, I was chatting with a person named @raydocmel on twitter who was decrying theocracy and pointed to Kim Davis as an example of it. Thinking on the subject he is right, We now live in a liberal theocracy with Gay Marriage as the primary sacrament and if one dares opposes it in the slightest way they shall lose their job, or their business, or even their freedom. After all nothing produce more rage in a theocrat than heresy."

@raydocmel
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
I happened to read an AP article that stated the judge OFFERED to release her if she would promise to NOT prevent the other clerks from issuing/registering.... but she declined... How is the judges offer NOT giving her room to extract herself from the issue.

So it seems that little factoid is not being told... so she is in jail for not merely her OWN BELIEF but for literally FORCING other clerks to obey her convictions.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I happened to read an AP article that stated the judge OFFERED to release her if she would promise to NOT prevent the other clerks from issuing/registering.... but she declined... How is the judges offer NOT giving her room to extract herself from the issue.

So it seems that little factoid is not being told... so she is in jail for not merely her OWN BELIEF but for literally FORCING other clerks to obey her convictions.
Some people run on principle not on compromise.

"It wasn’t the licences for gay couples to wed that they wanted, it was her submission to the religion of liberalism on the altar of gay marriage in fear and terror, it was the willingness to toss away Christ for the comfort of her home. It was her declaration that resistance to the new order is futile."
 
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BarlyGurl

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Some people run on principle not on compromise.

"It wasn’t the licences for gay couples to wed that they wanted, it was her submission to the religion of liberalism on the altar of gay marriage in fear and terror, it was the willingness to toss away Christ for the comfort of her home. It was her declaration that resistance to the new order is futile."
Looks like you are "HOOKED" by the politics propaganda vs focusing on the public sattements made by Kim Davis from the onset. If you want to CONCLUDE the principal was she submit to liberalism, after offered release if she promised not to block the other clerks from license/register... Idon't agree but ok.

I don't see how she is COMPRIMISING her OWN beliefs if she took that option.... but now she sits in jail and the clerks are issuing license/register... because she wouldn't agree to not interfere with other people's rights/beliefs/jobs.

Looks like she is in JAIL for a big political propaganda parade over the US constitution... still using "IMA CHRISTIAN" for her sympathy card.

It is clear you and I do not agree crossnote... I have made every effort to EXAMINE the issue to fully perceive WHY there is such a CHASM between my own view (and those who share it) and your view (and those who share yours)... at this point I am going to have to conclude that probably RickyZ hit it right when implicating understanding prophecy and applying it to worldview.

Regards.
 
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Mitspa

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Oh its prophecy? again.... I guess when you have no biblical support for a position that's the only option folks can find....the only prophecy that folks need to consider on this issue is prophecy that tells us that folks will love wickedness and reject righteousness in the end times.
 
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BarlyGurl

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Oh its prophecy? again.... I guess when you have no biblical support for a position that's the only option folks can find....the only prophecy that folks need to consider on this issue is prophecy that tells us that folks will love wickedness and reject righteousness in the end times.
Again... Mitspa... your comments are divisive, accussing and uncalled for... and today is SUNDAY! Maybe you could go back to bed, get up again and pretend to START OVER.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
Looks like you are "HOOKED" by the politics propaganda vs focusing on the public sattements made by Kim Davis from the onset. If you want to CONCLUDE the principal was she submit to liberalism, after offered release if she promised not to block the other clerks from license/register... Idon't agree but ok.

I don't see how she is COMPRIMISING her OWN beliefs if she took that option.... but now she sits in jail and the clerks are issuing license/register... because she wouldn't agree to not interfere with other people's rights/beliefs/jobs.

Looks like she is in JAIL for a big political propaganda parade over the US constitution... still using "IMA CHRISTIAN" for her sympathy card.

It is clear you and I do not agree crossnote... I have made every effort to EXAMINE the issue to fully perceive WHY there is such a CHASM between my own view (and those who share it) and your view.

Regards.
All her lawyer asked for was that her name be taken off of the certificates (whether she is the one doing or not, the way i understand it her name still remains on the form itself as she is the head clerk). The judge said no to make a political point. When he wanted to release her, he didnt offer to have her name taken off of it (which is what she objects to, had this been done to begin with it would not be such a big deal now). She was willing to allow other clerks to do it from the start, but not as long as her name was attatched to it. The judge just wanted to make an example out of her and it backfired, I don't think that he thought she would really go this long without caving.
 
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Mitspa

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lol I like your spunk :) but I still think your very wrong and need to repent of these ungodly opinions you are trying to pass off as coming from a godly place....they are clearly not.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
All her lawyer asked for was that her name be taken off of the certificates (whether she is the one doing or not, the way i understand it her name still remains on the form itself as she is the head clerk). The judge said no to make a political point. When he wanted to release her, he didnt offer to have her name taken off of it (which is what she objects to, had this been done to begin with it would not be such a big deal now). She was willing to allow other clerks to do it from the start, but not as long as her name was attatched to it. The judge just wanted to make an example out of her and it backfired, I don't think that he thought she would really go this long without caving.
THANK YOU DONKEYFISH!!!!! I did not ever notice the "remove her name from the form" detail you mentioned above. If that is true... then the PICTURE changes some for sure. Thank you for "noticing" what I hadn't noticed and bringing it to my attention... considering the "air" in this thread... it was kinda brave to do that. Thanks.
 
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nw2u

Guest
All her lawyer asked for was that her name be taken off of the certificates (whether she is the one doing or not, the way i understand it her name still remains on the form itself as she is the head clerk). The judge said no to make a political point. When he wanted to release her, he didnt offer to have her name taken off of it (which is what she objects to, had this been done to begin with it would not be such a big deal now). She was willing to allow other clerks to do it from the start, but not as long as her name was attatched to it. The judge just wanted to make an example out of her and it backfired, I don't think that he thought she would really go this long without caving.
This is all true. You can read it in the one link which I believe was posted by Crossnote, and was a statement by her attorney, I think. It's back several pages. The only issue I have with this is that it changes her responsibilities. Originally, she would be responsible for the legal compliance of each certificate and their issuance. If each subordinate is responsible for their own determination, which ironically is the way I believe it should be, then Kim's position should not be garnered through election. She is then a manager, supervisor or coordinator. That's fine, but right now it's only part of her position.

By her signature, she is allowing those other workers to make decisions about the legal validity of a couple applying for a certificate. She signed on for that. It therefore is her duty to resign, if she disagrees with her duties or to perform them until the issues can be resolved by the state, and there are many issues.

The state of Kentucky is at fault, in my opinion, for not shutting down access to all new marriage licenses until they could make amendments to the laws. In the end, I figure all of the licenses issued since the feds changed the law for every state in the union and territories are illegal and invalid. Yes, I think it is that serious.

I don't consider her a martyr, since they are not asking her to obey or lose her life. I don't believe they are asking her to deny that God exists and worship their gods, either. Though, I'm sure someone can make a case for worship of mammon. In the end, Kim is personally right for what she is doing through her understanding and conscience for her own salvation. She is, however, breaking her oath of office to uphold the laws....unless the state of Kentucky comes back with something similar to what I typed above concerning validity.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
No..she is not breaking her oath to uphold the laws...she is defying an unlawful command from a court that has rebelled against our constitution. She is in the one who is honoring the law of this nation and her state.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Well im not your brother...in the natural sense... whether I can stand for the truth I am speaking is probably something you will never know for sure...but that don't change the truth and will not stop me from speaking what is true. I think its clear many would not even try to make a stand for a minute but are ready to yield to the darkness and seem to be trying to promote it in my view.
I fully picture you as one who will not fold and will spend his time in jail for the gospel. But for the sake of many who are reading this thread who won't, I bring it up. And I would ask at what point do we make such a stand? This clerk at this point is doing a worldly job that asks her to support worldly agendas. And at this point I think she would be perfectly fine in saying you can take this worldly crud and shove it by quitting. She can quit the job without denying her God. But this is all leading (very quickly) to the day where she will be asked to deny her God. I think that's the point at which one should stand and say, ok then, lock me up!
 
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Mitspa

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I fully picture you as one who will not fold and will spend his time in jail for the gospel. But for the sake of many who are reading this thread who won't, I bring it up. And I would ask at what point do we make such a stand? This clerk at this point is doing a worldly job that asks her to support worldly agendas. And at this point I think she would be perfectly fine in saying you can take this worldly crud and shove it by quitting. She can quit the job without denying her God. But this is all leading (very quickly) to the day where she will be asked to deny her God. I think that's the point at which one should stand and say, ok then, lock me up!
No its not a "worldly" job ...in the sense that we as believers are always to represent our faith...The idea that Christians are not allowed or supposed to shape our society is just a lie strait from heck...Our system of constitutional government was set up for that very purpose ...so that the people could shape their society not a bunch of lawless and perverted judges.

Folks don't seem to understand how or why our system was set up? I guess the liberals have blinded folks from these truths?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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We understand how our system was set up. But we also understand that it no longer works that way. The problem is that now the government thinks it is the people, so now those running it run it for their own good and the real people be damned!

Prophecy says that in the end there will be a one world government that hunts us down and kills us. So while we do have place and right to try to shape our government, we already know that is a failing proposition.
 
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Mitspa

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We understand how our system was set up. But we also understand that it no longer works that way. The problem is that now the government thinks it is the people, so now those running it run it for their own good and the real people be damned!

Prophecy says that in the end there will be a one world government that hunts us down and kills us. So while we do have place and right to try to shape our government, we already know that is a failing proposition.
It don't work because people believe it don't work...they have been convinced by the left wing that controls the media to think it cant be like its supposed to be...and if somebody like this lady stands up for the truth...they are attacked.

I don't believe that it cant work...I believe if honest folks begin to stand against the insanity that things will change and reform can happen. Im not the only one...if you haven't noticed, there is a whole bunch of folks that are feed up and ready to try and change the system back to what its supposed to be....ever heard of the tea party..have you noticed how folks are voting?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
And prophecy never tells us to give up or stop doing what is right...it never tells us to stop caring about our society or trying to work to make it better. It never tells us to stop being good citizens and protecting our families.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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It don't work because people believe it don't work...they have been convinced by the left wing that controls the media to think it cant be like its supposed to be...and if somebody like this lady stands up for the truth...they are attacked.

I don't believe that it cant work...I believe if honest folks begin to stand against the insanity that things will change and reform can happen. Im not the only one...if you haven't noticed, there is a whole bunch of folks that are feed up and ready to try and change the system back to what its supposed to be....ever heard of the tea party..have you noticed how folks are voting?
My brother is a tea partier... and he supports pretty much every economic agenda that will put him under a bridge.

I think you have too much faith in people. For the last 200 years they've done nothing but vote against their own best interests on both sides. Humanity as a whole has bought lock stock and barrel into satan's lies and deceptions. And that ain't going to change.

Kudos to you if you think you're going to stop satan's world government of oppression. I wish you luck. Me, I'm not listening to liberals or conservatives. I'm listening to my God who tells me it's only going to get worse, and that we should stop straining at the gnat and get ready for the inevitable.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
THANK YOU DONKEYFISH!!!!! I did not ever notice the "remove her name from the form" detail you mentioned above. If that is true... then the PICTURE changes some for sure. Thank you for "noticing" what I hadn't noticed and bringing it to my attention... considering the "air" in this thread... it was kinda brave to do that. Thanks.
Np, when I first heard this story I was of the opinion she should have stepped down too. I also wasn't aware of that little detail to begin with. That's a reasonable request IMO. The judge probably regrets not doing it to begin with now. Judges are used to making people cave and give in. That psychology doesn't work on a devout believer though.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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Religion or not, she still has a job to do. If she can't do the job then she should resign.