The Law Debacle Resolved

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crossnote said:
You are totally mixedup and contentious and I am putting you on ignore.
WE don't walk by the FRUIT of the Spirit, instead we walk by the Spirit..no wonder your so called good works are leading you and not God's Spirit.
Good bye and I pray God opens your eyes.
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Put me on ignore if you like just for a simple disagreement, but there are multiple scriptures from Paul, Peter, and John that clearly shows walking by the Spirit means we add His fruit to our lives. Paul clearly says in Galatians 5:23 that those who walk by this fruit (giving the list), there is no law !!!

The law still exists for those who transgress it as the bible does confirm this !!!
 
MarcR said:
Gal 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
KJV


As I understand it, this verse informs us the Law has no part in our relationship with God, through faith in Jesus. Continuation under the Law constitutes a lack of reliance on the sufficiency of what Jesus did for us. If we rely on our own obedience, we become responsible for total obedience.
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The whole context of Galatians is those who are seeking justification by the law by trying to seek perfection by keeping all the written ordinances.

This has nothing to do with the morals of God or the Spiritual aspect, as the moral/Spiritual still carries over and is established and upheld in the new covenant and this is clearly shown in scripture.
 
KennethC said:
Put me on ignore if you like just for a simple disagreement, but there are multiple scriptures from Paul, Peter, and John that clearly shows walking by the Spirit means we add His fruit to our lives. Paul clearly says in Galatians 5:23 that those who walk by this fruit (giving the list), there is no law !!!

The law still exists for those who transgress it as the bible does confirm this !!!
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indeed
my breatren :happy:
your right from the beggining :smoke:

and most important is all of you has a spirit of goodness in your heart and soul
So please don't let those evil things let the most of you
to be an instrument of it.

:ty:
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
All of you folks who keep repeating ad nauseam the same talking points about following and keeping the law, with your innumerable deceitful twistings of scripture, tortured rationalizations and smooth speech, are made to look like complete fools by the clear language of Acts 15 that proves gentiles were never under, nor commanded, to observe and keep the law of Moses. Quite the contrary because both James and Peter called such a burden.

But what do you do when confronted with its rebuke to your madness? You pile heaps of dirt and garbage on top of it to hide it (as well as every verse that witnesses against your perverse doctrine of death), and then climb on top to use that as your soapbox to continue proselytizing for your gospel of bondage.
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Then study it out completely, and explain it correctly! Don't leave anything out. Get the full picture and then share what you find.

But please try to get a grip on the insults. Discussions work better that way.
 
KennethC said:
Put me on ignore if you like just for a simple disagreement, but there are multiple scriptures from Paul, Peter, and John that clearly shows walking by the Spirit means we add His fruit to our lives. Paul clearly says in Galatians 5:23 that those who walk by this fruit (giving the list), there is no law !!!

The law still exists for those who transgress it as the bible does confirm this !!!
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So the power of law and sin are more powerful than God's saving grace in Jesus Christ?
 
Shoshanah said:
You do realize that I am agreeing with you in part. Your description is truly one of a hypocrite. Right?
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I'm not sure where you stand.
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ember said:
I agree. I find it uncertain also.
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Maybe this might help you both come to a conclusion.


How great are Your works, O Lord! Your thoughts are very deep.A senseless man has no knowledge, Nor does a stupid man understand this:That when the wicked sprouted up like grass And all who did iniquity flourished, It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.But You, O Lord, are on high forever.
 
KennethC said:
Put me on ignore if you like just for a simple disagreement, but there are multiple scriptures from Paul, Peter, and John that clearly shows walking by the Spirit means we add His fruit to our lives. Paul clearly says in Galatians 5:23 that those who walk by this fruit (giving the list), there is no law !!!

The law still exists for those who transgress it as the bible does confirm this !!!
Click to expand...

You can't do both. You have to pick one and go with it.

Either you will work at some aspect of the law, attempting to prove to yourself or others that you are righteous.

Or you will have faith that the Lord Jesus Christ is growing the Fruit of the Spirit in your life completely apart from any work you may attempt to do to increase that fruit or mimic that fruit.


What most people are not realizing is that when they separate some part of the law, such as morality, they are attempting to mimic the Holy Spirit by their understanding and strength.

I suppose its admirable to attempt to try and be righteous by your work and understanding. But its not the Way it works.

Only by Faith are we able to please God and working at the law, in any of your understanding, is not of faith.
 
Utah said:
The yoke and burden Jesus is talking about is having faith in Him, and loving God and neighbor. :cool:
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This is a study that I posted here on CC a long time ago. Thought I'd share it here, just for edification, and hopefully encouraging others to look further into it themselves.


More Than One Kind of Yoke Described in the Bible


The bible gives us examples of more than one kind of Yoke that a person or groups of people can be under.

I wanted to get the definition of the word, "yoke," from Strong's concordance to make clear what an actual yoke is.

This is taken from the Matthew 11:29. (Yoke)


2218 // zugov // zugos // dzoo-gos' //


1) a yoke
1a) a yoke that is put on draught cattle
1b) metaph., used of any burden or bondage
1b1) as that of slavery
1b2) of troublesome laws imposed on one, esp. of the Mosaic
law, hence the name is so transferred to the commands of
Christ as to contrast them with the commands of the
Pharisees which were a veritable 'yoke'; yet even Christ's
commands must be submitted to, though easier to be kept

This brings to mind the account of Elijah when he met Elisha. Elisha was out plowing the fields with his oxen. The yoke is the reigns put upon the neck of the Oxen to drive it.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Deuteronomy 22:9 Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled.
Deuteronomy 22:10 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.
In the parable of the seed sower, Jesus tells us what the seed is.
Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Before a seed can be planted, a field has to be plowed, rocks removed and the ground made ready.

Deuteronomy speaks about not planting diverse seeds, lest the fruit of they seed which thou has sowed, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled."

We only want the good seed to be planted, and "the seed is the word of God."
We don't want to sow with those who aren't in agreement, as Amos ch. 3 States, "what has darkness to do with light?"

So God's word instructs us not to plow with darkness, "Thou shalt not plow with and Ox and an ass together." And not to plant "divers seeds." We only want the truth to be planted.
What is the truth?

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

When we learn of Jesus we learn that HE has been speaking since the beginning.
As the verse says, "take MY yoke upon you and LEARN of ME" We want HIS yoke on us.
There's more than one type of yoke that a person can be under.
A yoke of bondage:

Leviticus 26:13 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Isaiah 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Sin is a heavy yoke! When we look back over our own lives and see where we have fallen short, the burden of our own wrong doings is a heavy yoke. Sin is a heavy burden.
When Christ is driving us by HIS yoke, it's light, being set free from the burden of sin and overcoming the world which is laden with sin.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

God's word even describes how we can be yoked together with others.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Philippians 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

There are so many examples of these things throughout the word. God's word is truly amazing, and the deeper a person prayerfully seeks out the answers, the more it all comes together. I personally won't ignore any part of it.
 
Utah said:
So the power of law and sin are more powerful than God's saving grace in Jesus Christ?
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Nobody is saying that, but at the same time God's saving grace does not allow for people to continue to live deliberate sinful lifestyles. Not saying you are like this, but any teaching that makes excuses for sin to continue in our lives is not of the faith in Jesus.

Jude 1:4 clearly shows that false teachers crept in long ago teaching this allowing of lewdness to continue, and says such are already marked for condemnation.
 
Well there so many who follow our lord Jesus Christ and
Utter faith :whistle:
:scarf: for they utter faith
When those people who always asking them where they find such faith
 
ember said:
which commandments?

Jesus did not give many...save love

your keep referring to commandments and yet you do not appear to know what they actually are!

it's not the 10 commandments.....

Listen: the Israelites were terrified at the sight of mountain, smoking, lighting and display of power. They would not approach and so Moses became their go between

Today, we have Jesus, our High Priest...we do not approach a scary mountain (holy God) we approach a loving God who has provided ALL we need to come and say Abba Father

Honestly, you law folk ought to wear the 10 commandments...out of stone...and appreciate the heavy burden...you might start looking for a way to get rid of them and take the extended hand of Christ...HE is your law fulfilled

is it any use?
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This is where you and I definitely do not agree, as just because the word commandment is not mentioned in the verse does not mean what Jesus said was not a commandment.

Lord Jesus gave a number of commandments in the gospel books, He did not just give two, as He only said those two were the greatest commandments.
 
Grandpa said:
You can't do both. You have to pick one and go with it.

Either you will work at some aspect of the law, attempting to prove to yourself or others that you are righteous.

Or you will have faith that the Lord Jesus Christ is growing the Fruit of the Spirit in your life completely apart from any work you may attempt to do to increase that fruit or mimic that fruit.


What most people are not realizing is that when they separate some part of the law, such as morality, they are attempting to mimic the Holy Spirit by their understanding and strength.

I suppose its admirable to attempt to try and be righteous by your work and understanding. But its not the Way it works.

Only by Faith are we able to please God and working at the law, in any of your understanding, is not of faith.
Click to expand...


You are right we can't do both which is why the Apostle James (James 1:14-16) shows that when we sin it is because we have been drawn away by our own lusts and desires. This is why we must return to the Lord by confessing and continue walking in the Light to have our sin forgiven by being covered by His blood. (1 John 1:7-2:2)

And again I am not trying to be righteous by my own works, please stop with that faulty accusation............

There is a "BIG" difference in walking in His righteousness (Spirit/Fruit) and our own righteousness !!!

Faith in Jesus Christ is not an inactive faith as Jesus Himself said those who believe in Him:

a) Come to Him

b) Hear what He said

c) Does what He said
 
KennethC said:
The whole context of Galatians is those who are seeking justification by the law by trying to seek perfection by keeping all the written ordinances.

This has nothing to do with the morals of God or the Spiritual aspect, as the moral/Spiritual still carries over and is established and upheld in the new covenant and this is clearly shown in scripture.
Click to expand...

The whole context of Galatians is those who are seeking justification by the law in order to be saved. They had fallen victim to the doctrine of the pharisees that Acts 15 addressed and rebuked.
 
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