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LOL . . . true enough!
But there is no purpose to go back to the law "for the law can not give life because if it could then righteousness would have been by the law. Before faith came, we were held captive under the law UNTIL the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. BUT NOW THAT FAITH HAS COME, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. It's even compared to being heirs - when we are children and are given possessions as heirs - we have a "guardian and manager until the date we come of age to inherit . . . In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts crying, "Abba! Father! So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God."
But there is no purpose to go back to the law "for the law can not give life because if it could then righteousness would have been by the law. Before faith came, we were held captive under the law UNTIL the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. BUT NOW THAT FAITH HAS COME, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith. It's even compared to being heirs - when we are children and are given possessions as heirs - we have a "guardian and manager until the date we come of age to inherit . . . In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts crying, "Abba! Father! So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God."
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Yeah round and round we go. And same old song and dance.
We can just pray someone gets the jist, and seeks how to truly seek out the plan of God in their lives, and not go back to the old letter. Which paul said specifically (sorry, your argument that gal 3 is just against those trying to use law to be saved is not correct. Because Paul, in his argument against that, Tells us the specific purpose of the law. period.
No place in his explanation of what the law was given for. Did he say we should follow it to know how to be righteous people or obedient people. Not once.
Anyway, As you said, this is ongoing and getting gold But that's fine, Other people need to see it, what they do with it is up to them.
And see, I agree COMPLETELY with that passage and accept it as the truth. What many people can't grasp is that there are other good and applicable reasons to follow the individual laws, which offer no competition or contradiction with grace and faith and the Holy Spirit.
Unfortunately, the debate can be so heated, that many people would rather stick with the arguments they know and are familiar with instead of hearing different ones. (And I mean that both sides of the Law debate do this. Not just one.)
Unfortunately, the debate can be so heated, that many people would rather stick with the arguments they know and are familiar with instead of hearing different ones. (And I mean that both sides of the Law debate do this. Not just one.)
Paul's words are just as much of the Lord's Words as if coming directly from Christ Himself. Or do you think only some of Scripture is inspired by God?
2 Peter 3:15-16 (KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 3:15-16 (KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
I've already corrected this once on this thread, but I will do it again. What you are saying is inaccurate.
Leviticus 19:33-34
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwells with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shall love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your God.
Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am Yahweh your God.
Deuteronomy 16:11
...And thou shall rejoice before Yahweh thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are among you, in the place which Yahweh thy God has chosen to place his name there.
Deuteronomy 29:9-15
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. 10 Ye stand this day all of you before Yahweh your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel, 11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water: 12 That thou should enter into covenant with Yahweh thy God, and into his oath, which Yahweh thy God makes with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he has said unto thee, and as he has sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that stands here with us this day before Yahweh our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day.
Deuteronomy 31:12
Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear Yahweh your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
ALL of the people at Sinai, including the mixed multitudes, the gentiles that CHOSE to follow the god of the Hebrews, accepted the law.
--Exodus 12:37 Now the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, aside from children. 38A mixed multitude also went up with them, along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock.
Even Paul said that all men were the same:
Galatians 3:26-29
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Messiah Yehshua (Christ Jesus). 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 10:12-13
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 10:34-36
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Yehshua Messiah (Jesus Christ): (he is Lord of all).
Ruth was highly honored for WANTING to follow his law:
Ruth 2:10-13
Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou should take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger? 11 And Boaz answered and said unto her, It has fully been shewed me, all that thou has done unto thy mother in law since the death of thine husband: and how thou has left thy father and thy mother, and the land of thy nativity, and art come unto a people which thou knew not heretofore. 12 Yahweh recompense thy work, and a full reward be given thee of Yahweh God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to trust. 13 Then she said, Let me find favor in thy sight, my lord; for that thou has comforted me, and for that thou has spoken friendly unto thine handmaid, though I be not like unto one of thine handmaidens.
Only an idiot wouldn't want to claim all of these blessings, which people who refuse to keep the law claim they should experience:
Deuteronomy 11 NIV Yet he clearly says in this passage that: 13So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today—to love the Lord your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul—
How can you claim promises of blessings when you are not committing the act that brings the blessings? (Logic puzzle.) If you can't experience the power of God in your life, disobedience is surely the problem. If you cannot claim victory over the sinful behaviors you live in, like smoking and drinking and irresponsible sex, to name a few, than THIS one section of scripture tells you WHY. Yahweh makes it clear. He loves us. He WANTS us to receive these blessings, but we MUST keep up our end of the bargain to receive them.
As for what Messiah actually thought of the law of his Father: Jesus and the Law of Moses
ANYONE who says they believe God/Yahweh, and says he is their god, but that they don't have to follow the law he gave us, is saying he is a liar and double-minded. If he broke his word to the Jews, why wouldn't he break his word to the Christians? (Another logic puzzle.)
Deuteronomy 29:9-15
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. 10 Ye stand this day all of you before Yahweh your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel, 11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water: 12 That thou should enter into covenant with Yahweh thy God, and into his oath, which Yahweh thy God makes with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he has said unto thee, and as he has sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that stands here with us this day before Yahweh our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day.
Anyone who accuses Messiah of abolishing his father's law accuses him of disobeying his father, which immediately makes him a sinner. That is a very serious accusation, and is in fact a form of blashpeme. If you are saying he came here to destroy what his father did, then that is a very serious charge indeed. If you are saying that you accuse of teaching others not to keep the law of Moses, then you falsely accuse him as the Pharisees did:
(John 10:33) “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
(Luke 5:21) The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
(Mat 26:65) Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy."
It's a tiny bit of a logic puzzle, but how can he be falsely accused of breaking the law if he wasn't breaking the law? How can he be accused of teaching blaspheme if he wasn't teaching against the law? It's the same FALSE accusation levied against Paul and Stephen. Both of them were still OBEYING the law of Moses or it wouldn't have been a FALSE accusation.
I could flood this thread with scripture after scripture after scripture saying the law of Yah is good and just and wonderful and beautiful and makes a man wise over and over again, many of them straight from the mouth of Yahweh to his prophets and to the Israelites, and they will still trot out the same tiny segments of letters from Paul that allow them to remain as pagan and not-set-apart as possible while still wearing the veneer of a "good christian." No matter what the truth is people want to cling to their own understanding, and follow the whore in Proverbs 7 to their doom.
I often wonder if you folks sound just like the Catholics while the Protestant Reformation was beginning. Did they also trot out these familiar scriptures from Paul, the ones that justified being allowed to sin? Do you suppose they also refused to open their minds to new ideas and great revelations because they were terrified, cowering behind their cherished beliefs, their status in their church, terrified the neighbors might find out that they have been thinking thoughts that the mainstream church doesn't allow. Oh, the social shame of being different!! Oh, the terrible crazies out there preaching this NEW IDEA of taking scripture literally and obeying exactly what it says! It's a CRAZY idea that man and God can work out their differences with one another, without the help of a confessor, or the pagan idols of Mary and the saints. Ha ha ha ha ha!!
Hold on to your hats, folks! There's a great slice of humble pie coming your way!! It tastes pretty good once you get used to it. I know. I ate mine 15 years ago and the taste was bitter, but it was sweet in my life.
Humor aside, you've heard the truth now. You are accountable to set aside your lifetime of beliefs and TEST it. Test it and show your God that serving him is more important than making yourself right. Start out praying that he do that very thing for you in your heart and your mind...help you be humbled and set aside your beliefs, remove the scales from your eyes, and show you the whole, beautiful, life-giving truth. You might surprise yourself how much you love serving your god in word, though, AND deed.
Start with these questions, maybe? Did forgiveness exist before Messiah's sacrifice? Do you know how his sacrifice satisfied the law at ALL? Do you know how the Biblical calendar fits into the prophecy that is coming? Do you even know why that's important!? What about grace? Did the Holy Spirit exist before the day of Pentecost? What was Pentecost, anyway? Don't you kinda want to press in closer, to know more? To understand your King in every possible way that you can? Why would you turn him away when he stands at the door and knocks?
May you not be able to sleep or find peace in your soul until you have reconciled this matter on your knees before your god.
Gentiles were only under the of Moses if they lived in the land of Israel, or joined the old covenant via circumcision. After the cross, Paul said that gentiles who did this would be cut off from Christ.
Christ is better than the law because all of the blessings are in him without the curses!
Christ is better than the law because all of the blessings are in him without the curses!
I've already corrected this once on this thread, but I will do it again. What you are saying is inaccurate.
Leviticus 19:33-34
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwells with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shall love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your God.
Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am Yahweh your God.
Deuteronomy 16:11
...And thou shall rejoice before Yahweh thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are among you, in the place which Yahweh thy God has chosen to place his name there.
Deuteronomy 29:9-15
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. 10 Ye stand this day all of you before Yahweh your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel, 11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water: 12 That thou should enter into covenant with Yahweh thy God, and into his oath, which Yahweh thy God makes with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he has said unto thee, and as he has sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that stands here with us this day before Yahweh our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day.
Deuteronomy 31:12
Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear Yahweh your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
ALL of the people at Sinai, including the mixed multitudes, the gentiles that CHOSE to follow the god of the Hebrews, accepted the law.
--Exodus 12:37 Now the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, aside from children. 38A mixed multitude also went up with them, along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock.
Even Paul said that all men were the same:
Galatians 3:26-29
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Messiah Yehshua (Christ Jesus). 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 10:12-13
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 10:34-36
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Yehshua Messiah (Jesus Christ): (he is Lord of all).
Ruth was highly honored for WANTING to follow his law:
Ruth 2:10-13
Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou should take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger? 11 And Boaz answered and said unto her, It has fully been shewed me, all that thou has done unto thy mother in law since the death of thine husband: and how thou has left thy father and thy mother, and the land of thy nativity, and art come unto a people which thou knew not heretofore. 12 Yahweh recompense thy work, and a full reward be given thee of Yahweh God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to trust. 13 Then she said, Let me find favor in thy sight, my lord; for that thou has comforted me, and for that thou has spoken friendly unto thine handmaid, though I be not like unto one of thine handmaidens.
Only an idiot wouldn't want to claim all of these blessings, which people who refuse to keep the law claim they should experience:
Deuteronomy 11 NIV Yet he clearly says in this passage that: 13So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today—to love the Lord your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul—
How can you claim promises of blessings when you are not committing the act that brings the blessings? (Logic puzzle.) If you can't experience the power of God in your life, disobedience is surely the problem. If you cannot claim victory over the sinful behaviors you live in, like smoking and drinking and irresponsible sex, to name a few, than THIS one section of scripture tells you WHY. Yahweh makes it clear. He loves us. He WANTS us to receive these blessings, but we MUST keep up our end of the bargain to receive them.
As for what Messiah actually thought of the law of his Father: Jesus and the Law of Moses
ANYONE who says they believe God/Yahweh, and says he is their god, but that they don't have to follow the law he gave us, is saying he is a liar and double-minded. If he broke his word to the Jews, why wouldn't he break his word to the Christians? (Another logic puzzle.)
Deuteronomy 29:9-15
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. 10 Ye stand this day all of you before Yahweh your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel, 11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water: 12 That thou should enter into covenant with Yahweh thy God, and into his oath, which Yahweh thy God makes with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he has said unto thee, and as he has sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that stands here with us this day before Yahweh our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day.
Anyone who accuses Messiah of abolishing his father's law accuses him of disobeying his father, which immediately makes him a sinner. That is a very serious accusation, and is in fact a form of blashpeme. If you are saying he came here to destroy what his father did, then that is a very serious charge indeed. If you are saying that you accuse of teaching others not to keep the law of Moses, then you falsely accuse him as the Pharisees did:
(John 10:33) “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
(Luke 5:21) The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
(Mat 26:65) Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy."
It's a tiny bit of a logic puzzle, but how can he be falsely accused of breaking the law if he wasn't breaking the law? How can he be accused of teaching blaspheme if he wasn't teaching against the law? It's the same FALSE accusation levied against Paul and Stephen. Both of them were still OBEYING the law of Moses or it wouldn't have been a FALSE accusation.
I could flood this thread with scripture after scripture after scripture saying the law of Yah is good and just and wonderful and beautiful and makes a man wise over and over again, many of them straight from the mouth of Yahweh to his prophets and to the Israelites, and they will still trot out the same tiny segments of letters from Paul that allow them to remain as pagan and not-set-apart as possible while still wearing the veneer of a "good christian." No matter what the truth is people want to cling to their own understanding, and follow the whore in Proverbs 7 to their doom.
I often wonder if you folks sound just like the Catholics while the Protestant Reformation was beginning. Did they also trot out these familiar scriptures from Paul, the ones that justified being allowed to sin? Do you suppose they also refused to open their minds to new ideas and great revelations because they were terrified, cowering behind their cherished beliefs, their status in their church, terrified the neighbors might find out that they have been thinking thoughts that the mainstream church doesn't allow. Oh, the social shame of being different!! Oh, the terrible crazies out there preaching this NEW IDEA of taking scripture literally and obeying exactly what it says! It's a CRAZY idea that man and God can work out their differences with one another, without the help of a confessor, or the pagan idols of Mary and the saints. Ha ha ha ha ha!!
Hold on to your hats, folks! There's a great slice of humble pie coming your way!! It tastes pretty good once you get used to it. I know. I ate mine 15 years ago and the taste was bitter, but it was sweet in my life.
Humor aside, you've heard the truth now. You are accountable to set aside your lifetime of beliefs and TEST it. Test it and show your God that serving him is more important than making yourself right. Start out praying that he do that very thing for you in your heart and your mind...help you be humbled and set aside your beliefs, remove the scales from your eyes, and show you the whole, beautiful, life-giving truth. You might surprise yourself how much you love serving your god in word, though, AND deed.
Start with these questions, maybe? Did forgiveness exist before Messiah's sacrifice? Do you know how his sacrifice satisfied the law at ALL? Do you know how the Biblical calendar fits into the prophecy that is coming? Do you even know why that's important!? What about grace? Did the Holy Spirit exist before the day of Pentecost? What was Pentecost, anyway? Don't you kinda want to press in closer, to know more? To understand your King in every possible way that you can? Why would you turn him away when he stands at the door and knocks?
May you not be able to sleep or find peace in your soul until you have reconciled this matter on your knees before your god.
Leviticus 19:33-34
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwells with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shall love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your God.
Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am Yahweh your God.
Deuteronomy 16:11
...And thou shall rejoice before Yahweh thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are among you, in the place which Yahweh thy God has chosen to place his name there.
Deuteronomy 29:9-15
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. 10 Ye stand this day all of you before Yahweh your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel, 11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water: 12 That thou should enter into covenant with Yahweh thy God, and into his oath, which Yahweh thy God makes with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he has said unto thee, and as he has sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that stands here with us this day before Yahweh our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day.
Deuteronomy 31:12
Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear Yahweh your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
ALL of the people at Sinai, including the mixed multitudes, the gentiles that CHOSE to follow the god of the Hebrews, accepted the law.
--Exodus 12:37 Now the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, aside from children. 38A mixed multitude also went up with them, along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock.
Even Paul said that all men were the same:
Galatians 3:26-29
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Messiah Yehshua (Christ Jesus). 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 10:12-13
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 10:34-36
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Yehshua Messiah (Jesus Christ): (he is Lord of all).
Ruth was highly honored for WANTING to follow his law:
Ruth 2:10-13
Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou should take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger? 11 And Boaz answered and said unto her, It has fully been shewed me, all that thou has done unto thy mother in law since the death of thine husband: and how thou has left thy father and thy mother, and the land of thy nativity, and art come unto a people which thou knew not heretofore. 12 Yahweh recompense thy work, and a full reward be given thee of Yahweh God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to trust. 13 Then she said, Let me find favor in thy sight, my lord; for that thou has comforted me, and for that thou has spoken friendly unto thine handmaid, though I be not like unto one of thine handmaidens.
Only an idiot wouldn't want to claim all of these blessings, which people who refuse to keep the law claim they should experience:
Deuteronomy 11 NIV Yet he clearly says in this passage that: 13So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today—to love the Lord your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul—
How can you claim promises of blessings when you are not committing the act that brings the blessings? (Logic puzzle.) If you can't experience the power of God in your life, disobedience is surely the problem. If you cannot claim victory over the sinful behaviors you live in, like smoking and drinking and irresponsible sex, to name a few, than THIS one section of scripture tells you WHY. Yahweh makes it clear. He loves us. He WANTS us to receive these blessings, but we MUST keep up our end of the bargain to receive them.
As for what Messiah actually thought of the law of his Father: Jesus and the Law of Moses
ANYONE who says they believe God/Yahweh, and says he is their god, but that they don't have to follow the law he gave us, is saying he is a liar and double-minded. If he broke his word to the Jews, why wouldn't he break his word to the Christians? (Another logic puzzle.)
Deuteronomy 29:9-15
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. 10 Ye stand this day all of you before Yahweh your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel, 11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water: 12 That thou should enter into covenant with Yahweh thy God, and into his oath, which Yahweh thy God makes with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he has said unto thee, and as he has sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that stands here with us this day before Yahweh our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day.
Anyone who accuses Messiah of abolishing his father's law accuses him of disobeying his father, which immediately makes him a sinner. That is a very serious accusation, and is in fact a form of blashpeme. If you are saying he came here to destroy what his father did, then that is a very serious charge indeed. If you are saying that you accuse of teaching others not to keep the law of Moses, then you falsely accuse him as the Pharisees did:
(John 10:33) “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
(Luke 5:21) The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
(Mat 26:65) Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy."
It's a tiny bit of a logic puzzle, but how can he be falsely accused of breaking the law if he wasn't breaking the law? How can he be accused of teaching blaspheme if he wasn't teaching against the law? It's the same FALSE accusation levied against Paul and Stephen. Both of them were still OBEYING the law of Moses or it wouldn't have been a FALSE accusation.
I could flood this thread with scripture after scripture after scripture saying the law of Yah is good and just and wonderful and beautiful and makes a man wise over and over again, many of them straight from the mouth of Yahweh to his prophets and to the Israelites, and they will still trot out the same tiny segments of letters from Paul that allow them to remain as pagan and not-set-apart as possible while still wearing the veneer of a "good christian." No matter what the truth is people want to cling to their own understanding, and follow the whore in Proverbs 7 to their doom.
I often wonder if you folks sound just like the Catholics while the Protestant Reformation was beginning. Did they also trot out these familiar scriptures from Paul, the ones that justified being allowed to sin? Do you suppose they also refused to open their minds to new ideas and great revelations because they were terrified, cowering behind their cherished beliefs, their status in their church, terrified the neighbors might find out that they have been thinking thoughts that the mainstream church doesn't allow. Oh, the social shame of being different!! Oh, the terrible crazies out there preaching this NEW IDEA of taking scripture literally and obeying exactly what it says! It's a CRAZY idea that man and God can work out their differences with one another, without the help of a confessor, or the pagan idols of Mary and the saints. Ha ha ha ha ha!!
Hold on to your hats, folks! There's a great slice of humble pie coming your way!! It tastes pretty good once you get used to it. I know. I ate mine 15 years ago and the taste was bitter, but it was sweet in my life.
Humor aside, you've heard the truth now. You are accountable to set aside your lifetime of beliefs and TEST it. Test it and show your God that serving him is more important than making yourself right. Start out praying that he do that very thing for you in your heart and your mind...help you be humbled and set aside your beliefs, remove the scales from your eyes, and show you the whole, beautiful, life-giving truth. You might surprise yourself how much you love serving your god in word, though, AND deed.
Start with these questions, maybe? Did forgiveness exist before Messiah's sacrifice? Do you know how his sacrifice satisfied the law at ALL? Do you know how the Biblical calendar fits into the prophecy that is coming? Do you even know why that's important!? What about grace? Did the Holy Spirit exist before the day of Pentecost? What was Pentecost, anyway? Don't you kinda want to press in closer, to know more? To understand your King in every possible way that you can? Why would you turn him away when he stands at the door and knocks?
May you not be able to sleep or find peace in your soul until you have reconciled this matter on your knees before your god.
P
if i have no legs and a law comes out that says no running, well that law has no affect on me. it still exists for some but as for me, no affect/change. Now if naturally through the spirit i keep god's commandments, (cos he renewed/renewing my mind) then any laws out that prohibit me from doing what i naturally wouldn't do, have no affect on me. even if those laws didn't exist in writing , i would still not be doing something that is not in my christian nature to do.. . so the law being there or not now as a christian makes no difference to me, you might as well have a law saying no flapping your arms and flying, cos that too wouldn't affect me, as i cant fly. so no one is saying that as christians we go out and murder/ commit adultery etc. what people are saying is i now do not have to use all my strength not to commit murder/adultery, cos that nature is no longer at work in me.
just a thought. blessings keep the peace,,,,,
just a thought. blessings keep the peace,,,,,