Hebrew Roots Movement

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

you are confusing the wave shelf offering, with the day of atonement.

I'm not confusing the two. I'm suggesting they are the same event. On the day of atonement the high priest had to first sanctify himself with blood before he could atone for the sins of the people. Just before he went to the cross, Jesus said:

And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. John 17:19​

The blood had to be brought into the holy place and presented to GOD before atonement for the people could begin.

And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which [is] for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which [is] for himself: Leviticus 16:11

Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that [is] for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat: Leviticus 16:15​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So I researched the Hebrew Roots Movement a bit last night. The site I went to was 119 Ministries. The first video they wanted me to watch was on Acts 10. Their explanation of the vision Peter had was that it wasn't actually food the vision was about but the Gentiles. He had three visions and three messengers were sent to him. But what they didn't explain was when Peter went to Cornelius he ate with Cornelius. It doesn't specifically say what they ate but I can only assume it was Roman food?

When Peter returned to tell his story he explained that he ate with the Gentiles and the other Apostles were pretty upset about this. Then Peter told them the vision he had from God. Why would the disciples be upset if Peter ate according to Jewish Law? So I can conclude that Peter did eat unclean food and God, in the vision, told him it was ok to do so.

I watched some more but didn't feel any of the arguments they made actually made any sense according to scripture.

119 ministries has some of the worst exegesis I have ever seen.

 

[prove-all]

these feasts, passover,Unleavened Bread[w.s.] and Pentecost,did fall at the beginning of the year,

Israel had a spring harvest and a larger fall harvest, for firstfruits, then the worlds harvest

 

[prove-all]

the Feast of Trumpets next

“And the Lord spake saying,In the seventh month,in the first day of the month,
shall ye have a sabbath,a memorial [not a shadow] of blowing of trumpets,
an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein …”Leviticus 23:23-25).

Here is pictured to us that next blessed event in God’s redemptive plan,
when Christ shall come again, in clouds, with a shout, with the voice of
the archangel, and with the trump of God (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17).

It shall be “at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead
shall be raised incorruptible,and we shall [all] be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:52).

Unless Christ returns to resurrect the dead, we would never gain eternal life

—if there is no resurrection

“[t]hen they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished” (verse 18).

Christ directly intervenes in world affairs at the seventh, or the last, trump
(Revelation 11:15-19). A trumpet is a symbol of war. He comes in a time
of worldwide war—when the nations are angry and are destroying His earth

As soon as the work of gathering in the firstfruits (pictured by Pentecost) is completed
at the end of this present age, then Christ will begin to set up again the tabernacle of David

(Acts 15:16)—to set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people

(Isaiah 11:11)—to search out and to find His lost sheep that the ministers of the churches
have failed to search out and save during this period (Ezekiel 34:1-14).

“And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown,
and they [Israel] shall come which were ready to perish … and shall worship
the [Eternal] in the holy mount at Jerusalem” (Isaiah 27:13).

When will Israel be regathered? At the sound of the trump— at the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[2Tim3v16_17]

...Why would the disciples be upset if Peter ate according to Jewish Law?

Hi, The disciples were upset because there was a man made rule that the Jews of the day did not eat or even talked to gentiles. That is why they were upset, and that is why God had to show him the vision, otherwise he would not have gone.

 

[sparkman]

The day of atonement had 3 aspects. The sin offering for the high priest, the sin offering for Israel, and the banishment of sin from the congregation.

The blood of the sin offering for the high priest was first presented in the holy of holies.

Jesus said to her, “Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’” John 20:17​

The high priest then atoned for the sins of Israel.

And [after he] had said these [things], [while] they were watching, he was taken up, and a cloud received him from their sight. Acts 1:9.​

There's no question that the atonement for GOD's people is still taking place,

But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

Therefore also he is able to save completely those who draw near to God through him, [because he] always lives in order to intercede on their behalf. Hebrews 7:25​

This intercession will continue until the last person is saved. Then the mystery of GOD will be complete, and the high priest will emerge from the holy place to banish sin from the congregation.

[Christ] whom heaven must receive until the times of the restoration of all [things], about which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets from earliest times. Acts 3:21​

So the day of atonement is being fulfilled.

I wouldn't agree with that. Hebrews says that Christ "sat down" at the right hand of the Father. This implies a finished atonement. The atonement was "once for all". Hebrews supports the idea of a finished atonement.

However, your view does not claim that Satan is our sin-bearer..that's the main issue I was addressing. The SDA/Armstrongite view says that Satan is our sin bearer and that is blasphemous. It is also anti-Scriptural.

Christ suffered for us "outside the camp" (Hebrews 13:12-13), and he bore our sins, not Satan (I Peter 2:24). He became sin for us (II Cor 5:21).

Besides that, the imagery is totally different. The goat was let loose, and Satan will be bound and thrown in the bottomless pit.

This idea that the salvation plan of God is sequentially represented in the annual festivals is not one that I share...they are shadows of events that occur, but I don't think they are sequential like Armstrongites claimed. They have influenced Hebrew Roots type people in the same manner. The general insinuation is that they are still required observances because they haven't been fulfilled yet. Well, there is no hermeneutic to prove that, and in addition, I don't think they are sequential events nor do I think their assignments are correct.

My comments are not addressing your remarks mostly..just elaborating on earlier comments.

 

[sparkman]

119 ministries has some of the worst exegesis I have ever seen.

Yes, unfortunately many are led astray by them. I see constant references to them.

 

[prove-all]

The SDA/Armstrongite view says that Satan is our sin bearer
and that is blasphemous.

.

can you show me where they claim this view, or is this another lie?


Satan is not our sin bearer, but is the author of it, and the guilt is his.

 

[prove-all]

I wouldn't agree with that. Hebrews says that Christ "sat down" at the right hand of the Father. This implies a finished atonement. .

13From henceforth expecting [till] his enemies be made his footstool.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him,

it is manifest that [he is excepted] which did put all things [under him].

​

 

[2Tim3v16_17]

Torah/Law/Commandments in the NT from the OT.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
[/TD]
[TD]1.) Is.2 [The Torah will be taught in the Millennial Kingdom]
2.) Is.8:20 [Those who are against the Torah have no light in them]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]3.) Is.42:4 [The coastlands will wait for YHWH’s Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]4.) Is.42:21 [YHWH will exalt the Torah and make it honorable]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]5.) Is.51:7 [The Torah mentioned to be on people’s hearts before Jer.31:33]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]6.) Jer.31:33 [The Torah will be on our hearts during the Millennial Kingdom]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]7.) Micah 4:2 [Nations will come to learn the Torah in the Millennial Kingdom]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]8.) Zech.14:16-19 [The Feast of Tabernacles will be kept in the Millennial Kingdom (Lev.23)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]9.) Lam 2:9 [Jeremiah lamented that the Torah is no more. Why lament if it will be done away with?]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]10.) Psalm 119 [David exalted the Torah]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]-The Gospels-
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]*Matthew:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]11.) Matt.4:4-10 [Yeshua used the Torah to rebuke the adversary (Deut 8:3; 6:16; 6:13)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]12.) Matt.5:17-19 [Those who teach against Torah will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]13.) Matt.7:12 [The Golden Rule (Midrash on Torah)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]14.) Matt.9:20 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]15.) Matt.11:13 [Yeshua used the Torah & the Prophets to prove John the Baptist valid]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]16.) Matt.12:5 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]17.) Matt.14:36 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]18.) Matt.22:36-40 [Yeshua taught the greatest commandments from the Torah USING the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]19.) Matt.23:23 [Yeshua emphasized the weightier matters of the Torah USING the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]*Mark:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]20.) Mark 3:4 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]21.) Mark 6:18 [John the Baptist used Torah to rebuke Herod (Lev.20:21)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]22.) Mark 6:56 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]23.) Mark 10:5-12 [Yeshua taught on divorce using the creation account]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]*Luke:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]24.) Luke 2:21 [Yeshua circumcised on the eighth day (Lev.12:2-3)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]25.) Luke 2:22-39 [Yeshua was presented before YHWH as the first born (Ex.34:19)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]26.) Luke 2:24 [An offering was made for Yeshua being the first born (Lev.12:6)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]27.) Luke 4:16 [Yeshua’s custom was to attend Synagogue on the Sabbath day not Sunday]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]28.) Luke 6:3-9 [Yeshua is Master of the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]29.) Luke 10:26-28 [Yeshua encouraged Torah observance by elevating the weightier commandments]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]30.) Luke 10:30-37 [Yeshua gave a parable of the good Samaritan/love your neighbor]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]31.) Luke 14:5 [Yeshua preserved life on the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]32.) Luke 16:16 [Yeshua used Torah and the Prophets to prove John the Baptist is valid]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]33.) Luke 16:17 [It is easier for heaven & earth to pass away than for Torah to do so]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]34.) Luke 24:44 [Suffering Servant Prophecy fulfilled]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]*John:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]35.) John 1:17 [Through the Torah, Messiah’s Grace was manifested] *
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]36.) John 1:45 [Phillip used the Torah & the Prophets to convince Nathaniel about Yeshua being Messiah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]37.) John 5:8 [Yeshua healed a lame man on the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]38.) John 7:19 [Yeshua used the Torah to defend Himself]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]39.) John 7:22-23 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]40.) John 7:24 [Yeshua taught to judge righteously (Lev.19:15)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]41.) John 7:49 [Yeshua said those who do not know Torah are accursed]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]42.) John 7:51 [Nicodemus used the Torah to prove Yeshua innocent]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]43.) John 8:5-12 [Yeshua won the challenge concerning the woman in “adultery” (Lev.20:10)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]-Acts-
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]44.) Acts 2 [The disciples celebrated Shavuot (Pentecost)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]45.) Acts 6:13 [False witnesses accused the disciples of teaching against the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]46.) Acts 13:14 [Paul went to Synagogue on Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]47.) Acts 13:15 [Paul attended Synagogue on Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]48.) Acts 13:39 [Paul taught the Torah and the Prophets in Synagogue]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]49.) Acts 13:42 [Gentiles wanted to hear more about Torah and Messiah next Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]50.) Acts 13:44 [Almost the whole city came the next Sabbath and wanted to learn]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]51.) Acts 13:46 [Paul and Barnabas decided to teach Torah/Prophets to the Gentiles (Is.49:6)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]52.) Acts 13:48 [Gentiles were filled with gladness because they get to learn about Yeshua & Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]53.) Acts 13:49 [Torah and the Prophets were spread throughout all the region of Antioch]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]54.) Acts 15:21 [Moses was taught in all the cities in Synagogues on the Sabbath Day]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]55.) Acts 15:28-29
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][New gentile converts were to keep the kosher laws of Torah before learning the rest of it]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][Foods offered to idols/eating blood/eating things strangled/sexual immorality]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][(Ex.20:3/Lev.7:26;17:12; 22:8/Deut.14:21)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]56.) Acts 16:13 [Prayer was customarily made on the Sabbath Day]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]57.) Acts 17:2-4 [Paul taught Yeshua and Torah for THREE Sabbaths not three Sundays!]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]58.) Acts 18:4 [Paul persuaded Jews and Greeks about Yeshua EVERY Sabbath!]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]59.) Acts 18:13 [False witness accused Paul of teaching against Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]60.) Acts 18:18 [Paul takes a Nazirite vow and shaves his head (Num.6)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]61.) Acts 20:6 [Paul sails to Philippi AFTER Unleavened Bread. Why mention this if it’s done away with?] 62.) Acts 20:7-12 [Paul kept the Sabbath and taught for Havdallah until midnight]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]63.) Acts 20:16 [Paul wanted to arrive in time at Jerusalem to keep Shavuot (Ex.34:22/Lev.23:15-22)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]64.) Acts 21:20 [New converts were ZEALOUS for the Torah!]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]65.) Acts 21:24 [Paul showed that he keeps the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]66.) Acts 21:28 [More false accusations saying that Paul taught against the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]67.) Acts 22:12 [Paul used the Torah to say Ananias was a devout man]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]68.) Acts 23:3 [Paul used the Torah to defend his position]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]69.) Acts 23:4 [Paul quoted the Torah (Ex.22:28)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]70.) Acts 24:14 [Paul believed all things in the Torah and the Prophets]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]71.) Acts 28:23 [Paul taught people the Torah and the Prophets]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[2Tim3v16_17]

continue.. from the above.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]-The Gospels-
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Matthew:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.) Matt.4:4-10 [Yeshua used the Torah to rebuke the adversary (Deut 8:3; 6:16; 6:13)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.) Matt.5:17-19 [Those who teach against Torah will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.) Matt.7:12 [The Golden Rule (Midrash on Torah)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.) Matt.9:20 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.) Matt.11:13 [Yeshua used the Torah & the Prophets to prove John the Baptist valid]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.) Matt.12:5 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17.) Matt.14:36 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18.) Matt.22:36-40 [Yeshua taught the greatest commandments from the Torah USING the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19.) Matt.23:23 [Yeshua emphasized the weightier matters of the Torah USING the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Mark:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20.) Mark 3:4 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21.) Mark 6:18 [John the Baptist used Torah to rebuke Herod (Lev.20:21)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22.) Mark 6:56 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23.) Mark 10:5-12 [Yeshua taught on divorce using the creation account]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Luke:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24.) Luke 2:21 [Yeshua circumcised on the eighth day (Lev.12:2-3)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25.) Luke 2:22-39 [Yeshua was presented before YHWH as the first born (Ex.34:19)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]26.) Luke 2:24 [An offering was made for Yeshua being the first born (Lev.12:6)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]27.) Luke 4:16 [Yeshua’s custom was to attend Synagogue on the Sabbath day not Sunday]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]28.) Luke 6:3-9 [Yeshua is Master of the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]29.) Luke 10:26-28 [Yeshua encouraged Torah observance by elevating the weightier commandments]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30.) Luke 10:30-37 [Yeshua gave a parable of the good Samaritan/love your neighbor]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]31.) Luke 14:5 [Yeshua preserved life on the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32.) Luke 16:16 [Yeshua used Torah and the Prophets to prove John the Baptist is valid]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]33.) Luke 16:17 [It is easier for heaven & earth to pass away than for Torah to do so]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]34.) Luke 24:44 [Suffering Servant Prophecy fulfilled]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*John:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]35.) John 1:17 [Through the Torah, Messiah’s Grace was manifested] *
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]36.) John 1:45 [Phillip used the Torah & the Prophets to convince Nathaniel about Yeshua being Messiah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]37.) John 5:8 [Yeshua healed a lame man on the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]38.) John 7:19 [Yeshua used the Torah to defend Himself]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]39.) John 7:22-23 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]40.) John 7:24 [Yeshua taught to judge righteously (Lev.19:15)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]41.) John 7:49 [Yeshua said those who do not know Torah are accursed]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]42.) John 7:51 [Nicodemus used the Torah to prove Yeshua innocent]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]43.) John 8:5-12 [Yeshua won the challenge concerning the woman in “adultery” (Lev.20:10)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]-Acts-
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]44.) Acts 2 [The disciples celebrated Shavuot (Pentecost)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]45.) Acts 6:13 [False witnesses accused the disciples of teaching against the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]46.) Acts 13:14 [Paul went to Synagogue on Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]47.) Acts 13:15 [Paul attended Synagogue on Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]48.) Acts 13:39 [Paul taught the Torah and the Prophets in Synagogue]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]49.) Acts 13:42 [Gentiles wanted to hear more about Torah and Messiah next Sabbath]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]50.) Acts 13:44 [Almost the whole city came the next Sabbath and wanted to learn]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]51.) Acts 13:46 [Paul and Barnabas decided to teach Torah/Prophets to the Gentiles (Is.49:6)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]52.) Acts 13:48 [Gentiles were filled with gladness because they get to learn about Yeshua & Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]53.) Acts 13:49 [Torah and the Prophets were spread throughout all the region of Antioch]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]54.) Acts 15:21 [Moses was taught in all the cities in Synagogues on the Sabbath Day]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]55.) Acts 15:28-29
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][New gentile converts were to keep the kosher laws of Torah before learning the rest of it]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][Foods offered to idols/eating blood/eating things strangled/sexual immorality]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][(Ex.20:3/Lev.7:26;17:12; 22:8/Deut.14:21)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]56.) Acts 16:13 [Prayer was customarily made on the Sabbath Day]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]57.) Acts 17:2-4 [Paul taught Yeshua and Torah for THREE Sabbaths not three Sundays!]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]58.) Acts 18:4 [Paul persuaded Jews and Greeks about Yeshua EVERY Sabbath!]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]59.) Acts 18:13 [False witness accused Paul of teaching against Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]60.) Acts 18:18 [Paul takes a Nazirite vow and shaves his head (Num.6)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]61.) Acts 20:6 [Paul sails to Philippi AFTER Unleavened Bread. Why mention this if it’s done away with?] 62.) Acts 20:7-12 [Paul kept the Sabbath and taught for Havdallah until midnight]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]63.) Acts 20:16 [Paul wanted to arrive in time at Jerusalem to keep Shavuot (Ex.34:22/Lev.23:15-22)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]64.) Acts 21:20 [New converts were ZEALOUS for the Torah!]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]65.) Acts 21:24 [Paul showed that he keeps the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]66.) Acts 21:28 [More false accusations saying that Paul taught against the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]67.) Acts 22:12 [Paul used the Torah to say Ananias was a devout man]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]68.) Acts 23:3 [Paul used the Torah to defend his position]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]69.) Acts 23:4 [Paul quoted the Torah (Ex.22:28)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]70.) Acts 24:14 [Paul believed all things in the Torah and the Prophets]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]71.) Acts 28:23 [Paul taught people the Torah and the Prophets]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]-Pauline Epistles-
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Romans:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]72.) Rom.2:13 [Those who do the Torah and not just hear it are considered justified]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]73.) Rom.3:31 [Faith does not make void Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]74.) Rom.6:15 [Grace is not permission to sin]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]75.) Rom.7:2 [Paul taught the laws of marriage & divorce (Deut.24)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]76.) Rom.7:7 [The Torah is not sin]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]77.) Rom.7:12 [The Torah is holy, just, and good]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]78.) Rom.7:26 [The Torah is good]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]79.) Rom.7:22 [Paul delighted in the Torah of YHWH]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]80.) Rom.13:18 [Love fulfills the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]81.) Rom.13:10 [Love fulfills the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*1 Corinthians:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]82.) 1Cor.1:18 [Paul quoted Isaiah 29:14 for his doctrine]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]83.) 1Cor.1:31 [Paul quoted Jeremiah 9:24]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]84.) 1Cor.2:9 [Paul quoted Isaiah 64:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]85.) 1Cor.2:16 [Paul quoted Isaiah 40:13]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]86.) 1Cor.3:19 [Paul quoted Job 5:13]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]87.) 1Cor.3:20 [Paul quoted Psalm 94:11]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]88.) 1Cor.5:1 [Paul used Torah to rebuke sin (Lev.20:11)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]89.) 1Cor.5:6-8 [Paul encouraged believers to keep Passover (Lev.23)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]90.) 1Cor.5:9-11 [Paul taught to not be yoked with the sexually immoral (Lev.20)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]91.) 1Cor.5:12-13 [Paul quoted Deut.17:7; 19:19; 22:21; 24:7]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]92.) 1Cor.6:9-10 [Paul listed immoral actions defined by Torah (Lev.20)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]93.) 1Cor.6:16 [Paul quotes Gen.2:24]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]94.) 1Cor.7:10-11 [Paul taught on marriage and divorce (Deut.24)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]95.) 1Cor.7:19 [Paul taught that keeping the Torah is more important than IMMEDIATE circumcision]*
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]96.) 1Cor.7:39 [Paul taught the laws of marriage and re-marriage]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]97.) 1Cor.9:9-12 [Paul did a midrash on Deut.25:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]98.) 1Cor.9:21 [Paul kept YHWH’s Torah when ministering to those who didn’t have the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]99.) 1Cor.10:1-22 [Paul did a midrash on Ex.32:6]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]100.) 1Cor.10:26 [Paul quoted Psalm 24:1]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]101.) 1Cor.14:21 [Paul quoted Isaiah 28:11-12]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]102.) 1Cor.15:27 [Paul quoted Psalm 8:6]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]103.) 1Cor.15:32 [Paul quoted Isaiah 22:13]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]104.) 1Cor.15:45 [Paul quoted Gen.2:7]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]105.) 1Cor.15:54 [Paul quoted Isaiah 25:8]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]106.) 1Cor.15:55 [Paul quoted Hosea 13:14]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*2 Corinthians:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]107.) 2Cor.3:12-17 [Paul did a midrash on the veil of Moses (Ex.34:33-35)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]108.) 2Cor.4:13 [Paul quoted Psalm 116:10]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]109.) 2Cor.6:2 [Paul quoted Isaiah 49:8]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]110.) 2Cor.6:16 [Paul quoted Lev.26:12/Jeremiah 32:38/Ezekiel 37:27]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]111.) 2Cor.6:17 [Paul quoted Isaiah 52:11/Ezekiel 20:34; 41]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]112.) 2Cor.6:18 [Paul quoted 2 Samuel 7:14]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]113.) 2Cor.8:15 [Paul quoted Ex.16:18]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]114.) 2Cor.9:9 [Paul quoted Psalm 112:9]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]115.) 2Cor.10:17 [Paul quoted Jeremiah 9:24]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]116.) 2Cor.13:1 [Paul quotes Deut.19:15]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Galatians:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]117.) Gal.3:6 [Paul quoted Gen.15:6]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]118.) Gal.3:8 [Paul quoted Gen.12:3; 18:18; 22:18; 26:4; 28:14]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]119.) Gal.3:10 [Paul quoted Deut.27:26]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]120.) Gal.3:11 [Paul quoted Habakkuk 2:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]121.) Gal 3:12 [Paul quoted Lev.18:5]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]122.) Gal.3:13 [Paul quoted Deut 11:26-28; 27:15-26]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]123.) Gal.3:16 [Paul quoted Gen.12:7; 13:15; 24:7]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]124.) Gal.4:27 [Paul quoted Isaiah 54:1]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]125.) Gal.4:30 [Paul quoted Gen.21:10]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]126.) Gal.5:14 [Paul quoted Lev.19:18]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Ephesians:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]127.) Eph.4:8 [Paul quoted Psalm 68:18]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]128.) Eph.4:25 [Paul quoted Zechariah 8:16]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]129.) Eph.4:26 [Paul quoted Psalm 4:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]130.) Eph.5:31 [Paul quoted Gen.2:24]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]131.) Eph.6:2 [Paul quoted Deut.5:16]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Philippians:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]132.) Philipp.2:17 [Paul related himself to a drink offering (Lev.23:13)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*1 Thessalonians:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]133.) 1Thess.4:2 [Paul taught to walk in the Commandments of YHWH]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]134.) 1Thess.4:3 [Paul taught to avoid sexual immorality (Lev.20)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]135.) 1Thess.5:1-11 [Paul taught that those who don’t know the Feast Days are in darkness/blind]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*2 Thessalonians:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]136.) 2Thess.1:8 [Paul quoted Isaiah 24:23]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*1 Timothy:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]137.) 1Tim.1:8 [Paul taught that the Torah is good if one uses it right]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]138.) 1Tim.5:18 [Paul quoted Deut.25:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]139.) 1Tim.5:19 [Paul taught the concept of two witnesses (Deut.19:15)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*2 Timothy:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]140.) 2Tim.3:15 [Paul said Timothy had known the “Holy Scriptures” (Torah/Prophets) since his youth]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]141.) 2Tim.3:16 [Paul referred to the Torah/Prophets when he said “Scripture, Doctrine, Instruction”]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]142.) 2Tim.4:6 [Paul related himself as a drink offering (Lev.23:13)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Titus:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]143.) Titus 2:9 [Paul taught obedience to the Torah concerning bondservants & masters (Deut.15:12-18)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]144.) Titus 2:14 [Paul taught that Yeshua died so we will have zeal for good works (Torah)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]-Other Epistles-
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Hebrews:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]145.) Heb.1:5 [quoted Ps.2:7/2Sam.7:14]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]146.) Heb.1:6 [quoted Deut.32:43/Psalm 97:7]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]147.) Heb.1:7 [quoted Ps.104:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]148.) Heb.1:9 [quoted Ps.45:6-7]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]149.) Heb.1:12 [quoted Ps.102:25-27]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]150.) Heb.1:13 [quoted Ps.110:1]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]151.) Heb.2:8 [quoted Ps.8:4-6]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]152.) Heb.2:12 [quoted Ps.22:22]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]153.) Heb.2:13 [quoted 2Sam.22:3/Isaiah 8:17-18]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]154.) Heb.3:11 [quoted Ps. 5:7-11]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]155.) Heb.3:15 [quoted Ps.95:7-8]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]156.) Heb.4:3 [quoted Ps.95:11]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]157.) Heb.4:4 [quoted Gen.2:2]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]158.) Heb.4:5 [quoted Ps.95:11]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]159.) Heb.4:7 [quoted Ps.95:7-8]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]160.) Heb.5:5 [quoted Ps.2:7]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]161.) Heb.5:6 [quoted Ps.110:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]162.) Heb.6:14 [quoted Gen.22:17]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]163.) Heb.7:17 [quoted Ps.110:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]164.) Heb.7:21 [quoted Ps.110:4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]165.) Heb.8:5 [quoted Ex.25:40]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]166.) Heb.8:12 [quoted Jer.31:31-34]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]167.) Heb.9:20 [quoted Ex. 24:8]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]168.) Heb.10:7 [quoted Ps.40:6-8]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]169.) Heb.10:16 [quoted Jer.31:33]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]170.) Heb.10:17 [quoted Jer.31:34]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]171.) Heb.10:30 [quoted Deut.32:35-36]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]172.) Heb.10:37 [quoted Hab.2:3-4]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]173.) Heb.11:5 [quoted Gen.5:24]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]174.) Heb.11:18 [quoted Gen.21:2]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]175.) Heb.12:6 [quoted Prov.3:11-12]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]176.) Heb.12:20 [quoted Ex.19:12-13]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]177.) Heb.12:21 [quoted Deut.9:19]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]178.) Heb.12:26 [quoted Hag.2:6]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]179.) Heb.13:5 [quoted Deut.31:6-8/Josh.1:5]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]180.) Heb.13:6 [quoted Ps.118:6]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*James:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]181.) Jam.1:22-24 [James taught to be a doer of the Word]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]182.) Jam.1:25 [The Torah is liberating]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]183.) Jam.2:8 [James quoted Lev.19:18]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]184.) Jam.2:11 [James quoted Ex.20:13-14/Deut.5:17-18]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]185.) Jam.2:23 [James quoted Gen.15:6]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]186.) Jam.3:2-12 [James did a midrash on the evil tongue (Lev.14)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]187.) Jam.4:6 [James quoted Prov.3:34]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]188.) Jam.4:12 [James said YHWH is our Lawgiver. Why need a Lawgiver if the Law is done away with?]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*1 Peter:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]189.) 1Pet.1:16 [Peter quoted Lev.11:44-45; 19:2; 20:7]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]190.) 1Pet.1:25 [Peter quoted Isaiah.40:6-8]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]191.) 1Pet.2:6 [Peter quoted Isaiah 28:16]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]192.) 1Pet.2:7 [Peter quoted Ps.118:22]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]193.) 1Pet.2:8 [Peter quoted Isaiah 8:14]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]194.) 1Pet.2:22 [Peter quoted Isaiah 53:9]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]195.) 1Pet.3:12 [Peter quoted Ps.34:12-16
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]196.) 1Pet.3:14 [Peter quoted Isaiah 8:12]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]197.) 1Pet.4:8 [Peter quoted Prov.10:12]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]198.) 1Pet.4:11 [Peter taught to speak as the Oracles of YHWH (Heb.5:12; Acts 7:38; Rom.3:2)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]199.) 1Pet.4:18 [Peter quoted Prov.11:31]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]200.) 1Pet.5:5 [Peter quoted Prov.3:34]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*2 Peter:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]201.) 2Pet.2:22 [Peter quoted Prov.26:11]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*1 John:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]202.) 1Jo.2:3-5 [We are YHWH’s children if we keep His commandments]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]203.) 1Jo.2:6 [We are to walk as Yeshua Messiah walked (Torah)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]204.) 1Jo.3:4 [Sin is violating the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]205.) 1Jo.3:22 [We are to do YHWH’s commandments and do things that are pleasing to Him]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]206.) 1Jo.3:23 [To believe in Yeshua as Messiah is a Torah based faith]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]207.) 1Jo.3:24 [Those who keep YHWH’s commandments abide in Him, and He in them]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]208.) 1Jo.5:2 [We are YHWH’s children if we keep His commandments]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]209.) 1Jo.53 [It is the love of YHWH to keep His commandments and they aren’t a burden]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*2 John:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]210.) 2Jo.1:6 [It is love to walk in His commandments]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]211.) 2Jo.1:9 [Violators of Torah do not abide in the teaching of Yeshua which is to follow Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][Those who abide in the teaching of Messiah has both YHWH and Yeshua]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]212.) 2Jo.1:10 [John said to have nothing to do with those who teach against the teaching of Messiah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Jude:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]213.) Jude 1:12 [“love feasts” were the Feast Days (Lev.23)]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]-Revelation-
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]214.) Rev.1:6 [The Torah comes forth from Yeshua’s mouth]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]215.) Rev.12:17 [The adversary is enraged mainly with those who keep Torah & believe in Yeshua]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]216.) Rev.14:12 [Those who endure are they that keep the Torah and believe in Yeshua]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]217.) Rev.19:15 [Yeshua judges and strikes the nations with the Torah (Word of YHWH/His Sword see Eph_6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]218.) Rev.22:14
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[sparkman]

I can't comment on all of these verses due to the bombardment that you made, but I will make these points:

1. The prophets viewed things through the spectacles of the Old Covenant, so if they referred to Sabbath, Holy Days,
clean and unclean meats during the Millennium, one must consider the context by which they were speaking.
Additionally, the Prophets also refer to animal sacrifices being reinstituted, so if you are using prophetic references
to assert a continuing requirement today, you are making a faulty argument due to the inclusion of animal sacrifices
in these millennial prophecies.
2. Torah does not mean exclusively the five books of the Old Testament; the word also includes the concept of the
teachings of God, whatever they are.
3. We aren't ancient Israel and the Old Covenant was not made with us to start with. I know some HRM people claim
that they are Israelites; unless they actually are Jews their claim is bogus.
4. There are moral and spiritual principles which are reflected in the Torah; the specific applications to ancient Israel
many not apply, but the moral and spiritual principles do. Those who have the Holy Spirit can discern the underlying
spiritual and moral principles and apply them in their lives. Claiming that the specific applications apply is an error.
Besides that, I doubt if you do that yourself. Do you throw your women out of the house during their menstrual
cycle, and discard any furniture they may have sat upon as unclean? I bet if you follow that practice, you are a single
or divorced guy
5. Paul, Jesus and other Jewish Christians continued to keep elements of the Old Covenant due to preference or custom
so any reference to them keeping the Sabbath or festivals are irrelevant.
6. Most Gentile churches had a population of Jewish people in them, due to the Disapora, so remarks related to the
festival of unleavened bread in I Corinthians 5 would not be unusual. Internal comments by Paul indicate the presence
of Jewish members.
7. Paul went to the synagogue to preach on the Sabbath because that's where the Scriptures were housed, and that's
where the people were. In fact, there's only 11 references to the Sabbath after Christ's ascension. 9 of them are
concerning Paul speaking to unbelievers in the synagogue. The other two relate to Hebrews 4:9-10 which is talking
about the spiritual rest that we have in Christ, and the other is Colossians 2:16-17 which says the Sabbath and
festivals were shadows of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17 groups the Sabbath and festivals with new moons and food and
drink offerings, which are not required of New Covenant Christians. Compare Colossians 2:16-17 to Hebrews 10:1-2
and Hebrews 9:9-11.

Do you claim that keeping the Sabbath, Holy Days, and clean/unclean meats are requirements for salvation?

Torah/Law/Commandments in the NT from the OT.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]1.) Is.2 [The Torah will be taught in the Millennial Kingdom]
2.) Is.8:20 [Those who are against the Torah have no light in them][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]3.) Is.42:4 [The coastlands will wait for YHWH’s Torah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]4.) Is.42:21 [YHWH will exalt the Torah and make it honorable][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]5.) Is.51:7 [The Torah mentioned to be on people’s hearts before Jer.31:33][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]6.) Jer.31:33 [The Torah will be on our hearts during the Millennial Kingdom][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]7.) Micah 4:2 [Nations will come to learn the Torah in the Millennial Kingdom][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]8.) Zech.14:16-19 [The Feast of Tabernacles will be kept in the Millennial Kingdom (Lev.23)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]9.) Lam 2:9 [Jeremiah lamented that the Torah is no more. Why lament if it will be done away with?][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]10.) Psalm 119 [David exalted the Torah]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]-The Gospels-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]*Matthew:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]11.) Matt.4:4-10 [Yeshua used the Torah to rebuke the adversary (Deut 8:3; 6:16; 6:13)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]12.) Matt.5:17-19 [Those who teach against Torah will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]13.) Matt.7:12 [The Golden Rule (Midrash on Torah)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]14.) Matt.9:20 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]15.) Matt.11:13 [Yeshua used the Torah & the Prophets to prove John the Baptist valid][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]16.) Matt.12:5 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]17.) Matt.14:36 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]18.) Matt.22:36-40 [Yeshua taught the greatest commandments from the Torah USING the Torah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]19.) Matt.23:23 [Yeshua emphasized the weightier matters of the Torah USING the Torah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]*Mark:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]20.) Mark 3:4 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]21.) Mark 6:18 [John the Baptist used Torah to rebuke Herod (Lev.20:21)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]22.) Mark 6:56 [Yeshua wore Tzitziot (Num.15:38)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]23.) Mark 10:5-12 [Yeshua taught on divorce using the creation account][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]*Luke:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]24.) Luke 2:21 [Yeshua circumcised on the eighth day (Lev.12:2-3)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]25.) Luke 2:22-39 [Yeshua was presented before YHWH as the first born (Ex.34:19)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]26.) Luke 2:24 [An offering was made for Yeshua being the first born (Lev.12:6)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]27.) Luke 4:16 [Yeshua’s custom was to attend Synagogue on the Sabbath day not Sunday][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]28.) Luke 6:3-9 [Yeshua is Master of the Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]29.) Luke 10:26-28 [Yeshua encouraged Torah observance by elevating the weightier commandments][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]30.) Luke 10:30-37 [Yeshua gave a parable of the good Samaritan/love your neighbor][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]31.) Luke 14:5 [Yeshua preserved life on the Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]32.) Luke 16:16 [Yeshua used Torah and the Prophets to prove John the Baptist is valid][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]33.) Luke 16:17 [It is easier for heaven & earth to pass away than for Torah to do so][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]34.) Luke 24:44 [Suffering Servant Prophecy fulfilled][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]*John:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]35.) John 1:17 [Through the Torah, Messiah’s Grace was manifested] *[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]36.) John 1:45 [Phillip used the Torah & the Prophets to convince Nathaniel about Yeshua being Messiah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]37.) John 5:8 [Yeshua healed a lame man on the Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]38.) John 7:19 [Yeshua used the Torah to defend Himself][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]39.) John 7:22-23 [Yeshua interpreted the Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]40.) John 7:24 [Yeshua taught to judge righteously (Lev.19:15)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]41.) John 7:49 [Yeshua said those who do not know Torah are accursed][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]42.) John 7:51 [Nicodemus used the Torah to prove Yeshua innocent][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]43.) John 8:5-12 [Yeshua won the challenge concerning the woman in “adultery” (Lev.20:10)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]-Acts-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]44.) Acts 2 [The disciples celebrated Shavuot (Pentecost)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]45.) Acts 6:13 [False witnesses accused the disciples of teaching against the Torah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]46.) Acts 13:14 [Paul went to Synagogue on Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]47.) Acts 13:15 [Paul attended Synagogue on Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]48.) Acts 13:39 [Paul taught the Torah and the Prophets in Synagogue][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]49.) Acts 13:42 [Gentiles wanted to hear more about Torah and Messiah next Sabbath][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]50.) Acts 13:44 [Almost the whole city came the next Sabbath and wanted to learn][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]51.) Acts 13:46 [Paul and Barnabas decided to teach Torah/Prophets to the Gentiles (Is.49:6)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]52.) Acts 13:48 [Gentiles were filled with gladness because they get to learn about Yeshua & Torah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]53.) Acts 13:49 [Torah and the Prophets were spread throughout all the region of Antioch][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]54.) Acts 15:21 [Moses was taught in all the cities in Synagogues on the Sabbath Day][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]55.) Acts 15:28-29[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][New gentile converts were to keep the kosher laws of Torah before learning the rest of it][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][Foods offered to idols/eating blood/eating things strangled/sexual immorality][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][(Ex.20:3/Lev.7:26;17:12; 22:8/Deut.14:21)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]56.) Acts 16:13 [Prayer was customarily made on the Sabbath Day][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]57.) Acts 17:2-4 [Paul taught Yeshua and Torah for THREE Sabbaths not three Sundays!][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]58.) Acts 18:4 [Paul persuaded Jews and Greeks about Yeshua EVERY Sabbath!][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]59.) Acts 18:13 [False witness accused Paul of teaching against Torah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]60.) Acts 18:18 [Paul takes a Nazirite vow and shaves his head (Num.6)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]61.) Acts 20:6 [Paul sails to Philippi AFTER Unleavened Bread. Why mention this if it’s done away with?] 62.) Acts 20:7-12 [Paul kept the Sabbath and taught for Havdallah until midnight][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]63.) Acts 20:16 [Paul wanted to arrive in time at Jerusalem to keep Shavuot (Ex.34:22/Lev.23:15-22)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]64.) Acts 21:20 [New converts were ZEALOUS for the Torah!][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]65.) Acts 21:24 [Paul showed that he keeps the Torah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]66.) Acts 21:28 [More false accusations saying that Paul taught against the Torah][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]67.) Acts 22:12 [Paul used the Torah to say Ananias was a devout man][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]68.) Acts 23:3 [Paul used the Torah to defend his position][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]69.) Acts 23:4 [Paul quoted the Torah (Ex.22:28)][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]70.) Acts 24:14 [Paul believed all things in the Torah and the Prophets][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD]71.) Acts 28:23 [Paul taught people the Torah and the Prophets][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[sparkman]

It's silly to list out all the Scriptures where the Torah was referred to. Obviously the entire Bible has value to the Christian. The claim that Christians must observe the letter of the law is the claim of Judaizer, and that they are under the Old Covenant is the central issue.

Read Galatians 3 and 4 (the whole book would be best), II Corinthians 3, Hebrews 8 and 9, Acts 15 and Romans 7:1-6 to see that the Old Covenant is no longer applicable to New Covenant Christians.

Christians with the Holy Spirit can discern the spiritual and moral principles which relate to the specific applications given to ancient Israel. These spiritual and moral principles are applicable.

Insisting that the letter of the law must be observed is like insisting that adults wear diapers and suck on pacifiers.

The Law was meant to lead Israel to Christ, by providing shadows and types to identify Him. Some of the shadows and types had spiritual significance too. Once the Reality came, the shadows and types were not needed.

Galatians 3 addresses this very well. Gentiles were able to bypass the Old Covenant and go directly into the New Covenant. They didn't need to go through the diaper-wearing and pacifier-sucking stage.

But, if you want to wear diapers, and suck on a pacifier, go ahead. I did it for 10 years as a Sabbath/festival/clean unclean meat law observer.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I wouldn't agree with that. Hebrews says that Christ "sat down" at the right hand of the Father. This implies a finished atonement. The atonement was "once for all". Hebrews supports the idea of a finished atonement.

However, your view does not claim that Satan is our sin-bearer..that's the main issue I was addressing. The SDA/Armstrongite view says that Satan is our sin bearer and that is blasphemous. It is also anti-Scriptural.

Christ suffered for us "outside the camp" (Hebrews 13:12-13), and he bore our sins, not Satan (I Peter 2:24). He became sin for us (II Cor 5:21)..

The earthly high priest could not sit down because he could not make perfect his people. Christ perfected his people with one sacrifice, and his sitting down on the mercy seat means that the atonement abides forever. If the blood was not atoning for sin still, we would not have forgiveness. The sacrifice was "once for all", but the blood is yet active. 1 John 1:7 says that the blood cleanses, not cleansed. The misconception that all atonement is past is what drives the Modern/New/Hyper Grace heresy. We are forgiven for one reason - "When I see the blood..."

Sins are not objects that Christ could become, or bear in his body. He was imputed with the guiltof our sin; he bore the consequence of our sin. He became a sin offering. Sin offerings did not actually become sin itself. In the Septuagint (from which Paul worked) the Greek word used for sin offering is the same word used in both cases in 2 Corinthians 5:21. So we can't use that verse to say that Christ became sin itself. He became a sin offering. Saying that Christ became, or bore, sin is just a figure of speech for bearing the guilt of sin.

 

[2Tim3v16_17]

The scripture is clear you cannot be saved through the law.
An that is what it is all about in the NT, convincing people the law does not save.
But nobody today talks about the below article, cause they would love the law to be removed, it is removed for the purpose of salvation, but not like we can now ignore it completely. I am not going to list n bunch of scriptures, but I would like your thoughts on one or two,

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

this verse is not saying, by teaching the law is gone, you are not going to be in heaven, it is say you are going to be called least. so there is benefit in still keeping the law, to be great in heaven.

Then 2 Tim 3 v16-17, All scripture, what scripture is he referring to, as there was no NT at that time of this writing.
I believe he was inspired to write All Scripture and not, OT or Torah or so because of all the NT writings forms part of all scripture today, but today people say no it is just the NT.

lastly people like to use Act 15 to say we need to do only these four tings

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:



are the decision not to tell them in this letter to start immediately with these four things and then go and learn about the rest when they read Moses. cause they know the law is not for salvation but you at least need to do these four things, but the rest they learned over time.

The below article explains it better then I could maybe.

Loving God and Keeping the Commandments

A sad situation is enveloping large parts of the evangelical church today, especially those associated with the emergent church. Increasingly we are being told that love is the only thing that matters in the Christian life, and any talk of obedience or keeping God’s commandments is somehow legalistic or in fact counter to love. Thus a new antinomianism is creeping through our churches.
We hear it said more and more today that ‘love cannot be commanded’ and that the Christian walk has nothing to do with rules, regulations, laws, commandments and the like. It is all about a love relationship – end of story. Now with all dangerous teachings, there is of course a good amount of truth here.
Yes of course at rock bottom the Christian life is one of a personal love relationship with the Father through the Son via the Holy Spirit. And of course it is true that we are saved by grace through faith, not by seeking to keep the law of God. But once we are justified, there is the matter of sanctification.
We are to grow in grace as we seek to do that which is pleasing to God. Nowhere in Scripture are we told that once we are justified by faith, we can live however we will. The free grace of God is not meant to become license for us. This truth is found in both Testaments. In the Old Testament Israel was freely saved by Yahweh’s grace. He delivered them from bondage in Egypt and freed them to serve him.
We read about this mighty deliverance in Exodus 1-19. But in Ex 20 we read about the giving of the law. The law followed God’s gracious saving act. Israel was meant to show their gratitude for God’s deliverance by obeying him and keeping his commands. This did not save them – they were already saved.
In the same way today we are saved by what Christ has done on our behalf. We cannot save ourselves. But once saved, we gratefully seek to do His will and please him. The Scriptures everywhere speak to these truths. Love and obedience go together. Let me cite just a few passages given by Moses:
Deut 6:5-6 – Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.
Deut 10:12-13 – And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to observe the LORD’s commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?
Deut 11:1 – Love the LORD your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always.
Deut 30:16 – For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws.
Notice how loving God and keeping his commandments are intimately connected. But I already hear the protests of some: “Yes, but that was in the Old Testament. We are no longer under the law today so none of that applies to us anymore”. Well, sorry to burst the bubble of these critics, but we find the same teachings in the New Testament. In fact, Jesus said exactly the same thing as Moses did. Consider just a few quotes as given to us by John in his gospel:
John 14:21 – Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.
John 14:23 – Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.”
John 15: 10 – If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
John 15:14 – You are my friends if you do what I command.
And consider these words from John’s epistles:
1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.
2 John 6: And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
These eight statements by John should make it crystal clear that there is absolutely no dichotomy whatsoever between loving God and obeying God. There is no disjunction at all between having a love relationship with Christ and keeping his commandments.

“The bestowal of the power for a holy life needs to be accompanied by instruction in the pattern of it. In what does sanctified behaviour consist? It consists in pleasing God. What is it that pleases God? The doing of His will. Where is His will to be discerned? In His holy Law. The Law, then, is the Christian’s rule of life, and the believer finds that he delights in the Law of God after the inward man (Rom. 7:22). The Christian is not lawless, ‘but under the law to Christ’ (1 Cor 9:21)….
“To insist upon this function of the Law of God in the life of the believer is not to become legalistic. Legalism is an abuse of the Law: it is a reliance on Law-keeping for acceptance with God, and the proud or the servile observance of laws is no part of the grace of God. The joyfully rendered obedience of love, however, is a quite different thing and is of the very essence of Christian life. For a man to obey God because he loves to do so is not legalism; it is liberty: but, let it be remembered, it is still obedience….
“A sovereign is no less a sovereign because his subjects love him. God does not cease to be God as soon as His people are reconciled to Him; He does not forfeit all rights to command as soon as people come to love Him. There is, therefore, nothing incompatible between love and obedience; for in the truly sanctified life there is loving obedience and obedient love.”
Kevan is of course simply drawing upon the wealth of wisdom found in the writings of those who have gone before, including the Puritans. They rightly knew that the good news of the Gospel makes no sense without the bad news. Grace and law, in other words, are intimately associated.
Without a clear concept of the law and its demands, we will not have a clear concept of our need for Christ. As John Bunyan rightly stated, “The man who does not know the nature of the law cannot know the nature of sin. And he who does not know the nature of sin cannot know the nature of the Saviour.”
The reason so much of our gospel preaching today is so anaemic and ineffective is because we have truncated the good news to a sentimental and sloppy notion of love. We instead need to tie in biblical love with biblical holiness. And until we restore obedience to our understanding of the Christian’s love relationship with Christ, we will continue to flounder and lose our voice.

 

[sparkman]

The earthly high priest could not sit down because he could not make perfect his people. Christ perfected his people with one sacrifice, and his sitting down on the mercy seat means that the atonement abides forever. If the blood was not atoning for sin still, we would not have forgiveness. The sacrifice was "once for all", but the blood is yet active. 1 John 1:7 says that the blood cleanses, not cleansed. The misconception that all atonement is past is what drives the Modern/New/Hyper Grace heresy. We are forgiven for one reason - "When I see the blood..."

Sins are not objects that Christ could become, or bear in his body. He was imputed with the guiltof our sin; he bore the consequence of our sin. He became a sin offering. Sin offerings did not actually become sin itself. In the Septuagint (from which Paul worked) the Greek word used for sin offering is the same word used in both cases in 2 Corinthians 5:21. So we can't use that verse to say that Christ became sin itself. He became a sin offering. Saying that Christ became, or bore, sin is just a figure of speech for bearing the guilt of sin.

Obviously I'm not saying that Christ became sin. That's how the verse reads. I quoted the verse.

But, I disagree with your view regarding an unfinished atonement. The atonement is finished. God has exhaustive foreknowledge, so he knows every sin that every believer will commit, and the atonement covers these sins.

My perspective is more Reformed in orientation so you may have a different position on this. I believe in particular redemption, and I KNOW God has exhaustive foreknowledge. He knows all the sins of those who place their faith in Jesus Christ and they are covered in the ONE atonement. Those who are saved are justified at the moment of salvation, and they never come into condemnation after that (Romans 8:1, John 5:24). Anything less than this is a works oriented gospel, and that is not my position. As a former Armstrongite, I abhor that position in fact.

But, I am not going to argue this issue. I am not a hypergrace person myself, but I do believe in eternal security. This does not translate into hypergrace like some claim.

 

[2Tim3v16_17]

Obviously I'm not saying that Christ became sin. That's how the verse reads. I quoted the verse.

But, I disagree with your view regarding an unfinished atonement. The atonement is finished. God has exhaustive foreknowledge, so he knows every sin that every believer will commit, and the atonement covers these sins.

My perspective is more Reformed in orientation so you may have a different position on this. I believe in particular redemption, and I KNOW God has exhaustive foreknowledge. He knows all the sins of those who place their faith in Jesus Christ and they are covered in the ONE atonement. Those who are saved are justified at the moment of salvation, and they never come into condemnation after that (Romans 8:1, John 5:24). Anything less than this is a works oriented gospel, and that is not my position. As a former Armstrongite, I abhor that position in fact.

But, I am not going to argue this issue. I am not a hypergrace person myself, but I do believe in eternal security. This does not translate into hypergrace like some claim.

So you can live how you want, there is no more sin, or if there is what does it matter, it is anyway forgiven.
This is what Pauls talk about saying, do we make void the law through faith, No.
Do we keep sinning because of grace, No.

you did not address my verses I quoted about keeping it in love.

 

[sparkman]

If you are addressing me, my position on Matt 5:17-19 is defined here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115415-matthew-5-17-19-sabbathkeeping-claims.html

The assertion you are probably trying to make is that all the Torah applies. For one, you have to consider that Christ made these remarks prior to the Cross, and while the listeners were under the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant ended, and the New Covenant began, when the veil in the temple ripped in two.

In addition, if you claim that these verses say that you need to keep the entire Torah, I will ask you the details on how you keep the Torah. Do you follow the laws regarding putting your wife or daughters out of the house during their menstrual period? Do you throw away furniture that they may have sat upon and made unclean? Do you clean all the leaven out of your home prior to the Days of Unleavened Bread? Do you build a Sukkot and dwell in it the seven or eight days of the Feast of Tabernacles? Do you claim that physical circumcision still applies?

If you claim that the Old Covenant is still applicable to New Covenant believers, do you require physical circumcision to enter into it? That was a requirement to enter into the Old Covenant. Paul says if you are circumcised for religious purpose, that Christ is of no value to you and you are fallen from grace(Galatians 5:1-6). So how do you enter into the Old Covenant when Paul says this? It is part of the Old Covenant and you cannot change this.

Regarding obedience to God's commandments, Christians are obedient to God's commandments because they have a new nature that wants to obey God in the ways that pertain to THEM, not ancient Israel. You are claiming that the Old Covenant is applicable to them as New Covenant Christians, which is a false claim. It is the same as the Judaizers of Galatia.

By the way, the Law has no power to change anyone. It is focused on external behavior, not the internal nature of the person. The focus of Christianity is on the new birth, which changes the nature and inclines the heart toward obedience...obedience to things that matter. Part of the Law identified sin, and so the Law can identify the fact that the person has a corrupt nature, but it has no power to change the underlying nature. Even external compliance has no such power to modify the nature. The power of the Holy Spirit is what regenerates the person, and walking in the Spirit is what causes the errant believer to avoid sin. Prayer, Bible Study, fellowship, worship, fasting. It is no accident that Paul addressed walking in the Spirit in Galatians 5:16-26.

By the way, I spent 10 years with Judaizers, and their fruits were not superior to non-observers. In fact, they were inferior. Despite their claims to be scriptural, and to be the "true church" who based everything on the Bible, they were ignorant on major areas of salvation theology. They were contemptuous toward other Christians, declaring them to be unbelievers who knew nothing about the Bible. Their contempt in itself was sinful. Lawkeepers are quite often nasty people...

The Evangelical Free group that I am a part of now knows a lot more about Scripture and behaves toward each other with love. They finance an orphanage in India which provides for the needs of 60 children. So, no one can tell me that they are inferior Christians. Their focus is on Jesus Christi, and the focus of the Judaizers is not. It is on keeping the Law, particularly the Sabbath, holy days, and clean/unclean laws.

In addition, I would also ask if you are involved in a fellowship which keeps you accountable, and where you observe communion and baptism. This is the Scriptural model. I've found that some Lawkeepers aren't even doing this, yet instructing others in righteousness, while in rebellion on this plain, NT commandment.

The scripture is clear you cannot be saved through the law.
An that is what it is all about in the NT, convincing people the law does not save.
But nobody today talks about the below article, cause they would love the law to be removed, it is removed for the purpose of salvation, but not like we can now ignore it completely. I am not going to list n bunch of scriptures, but I would like your thoughts on one or two,

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

this verse is not saying, by teaching the law is gone, you are not going to be in heaven, it is say you are going to be called least. so there is benefit in still keeping the law, to be great in heaven.

Then 2 Tim 3 v16-17, All scripture, what scripture is he referring to, as there was no NT at that time of this writing.
I believe he was inspired to write All Scripture and not, OT or Torah or so because of all the NT writings forms part of all scripture today, but today people say no it is just the NT.

lastly people like to use Act 15 to say we need to do only these four tings

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:



are the decision not to tell them in this letter to start immediately with these four things and then go and learn about the rest when they read Moses. cause they know the law is not for salvation but you at least need to do these four things, but the rest they learned over time.

The below article explains it better then I could maybe.

Loving God and Keeping the Commandments

A sad situation is enveloping large parts of the evangelical church today, especially those associated with the emergent church. Increasingly we are being told that love is the only thing that matters in the Christian life, and any talk of obedience or keeping God’s commandments is somehow legalistic or in fact counter to love. Thus a new antinomianism is creeping through our churches.
We hear it said more and more today that ‘love cannot be commanded’ and that the Christian walk has nothing to do with rules, regulations, laws, commandments and the like. It is all about a love relationship – end of story. Now with all dangerous teachings, there is of course a good amount of truth here.
Yes of course at rock bottom the Christian life is one of a personal love relationship with the Father through the Son via the Holy Spirit. And of course it is true that we are saved by grace through faith, not by seeking to keep the law of God. But once we are justified, there is the matter of sanctification.
We are to grow in grace as we seek to do that which is pleasing to God. Nowhere in Scripture are we told that once we are justified by faith, we can live however we will. The free grace of God is not meant to become license for us. This truth is found in both Testaments. In the Old Testament Israel was freely saved by Yahweh’s grace. He delivered them from bondage in Egypt and freed them to serve him.
We read about this mighty deliverance in Exodus 1-19. But in Ex 20 we read about the giving of the law. The law followed God’s gracious saving act. Israel was meant to show their gratitude for God’s deliverance by obeying him and keeping his commands. This did not save them – they were already saved.
In the same way today we are saved by what Christ has done on our behalf. We cannot save ourselves. But once saved, we gratefully seek to do His will and please him. The Scriptures everywhere speak to these truths. Love and obedience go together. Let me cite just a few passages given by Moses:
Deut 6:5-6 – Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.
Deut 10:12-13 – And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to observe the LORD’s commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?
Deut 11:1 – Love the LORD your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always.
Deut 30:16 – For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws.
Notice how loving God and keeping his commandments are intimately connected. But I already hear the protests of some: “Yes, but that was in the Old Testament. We are no longer under the law today so none of that applies to us anymore”. Well, sorry to burst the bubble of these critics, but we find the same teachings in the New Testament. In fact, Jesus said exactly the same thing as Moses did. Consider just a few quotes as given to us by John in his gospel:
John 14:21 – Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.
John 14:23 – Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.”
John 15: 10 – If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
John 15:14 – You are my friends if you do what I command.
And consider these words from John’s epistles:
1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.
2 John 6: And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
These eight statements by John should make it crystal clear that there is absolutely no dichotomy whatsoever between loving God and obeying God. There is no disjunction at all between having a love relationship with Christ and keeping his commandments.

“The bestowal of the power for a holy life needs to be accompanied by instruction in the pattern of it. In what does sanctified behaviour consist? It consists in pleasing God. What is it that pleases God? The doing of His will. Where is His will to be discerned? In His holy Law. The Law, then, is the Christian’s rule of life, and the believer finds that he delights in the Law of God after the inward man (Rom. 7:22). The Christian is not lawless, ‘but under the law to Christ’ (1 Cor 9:21)….
“To insist upon this function of the Law of God in the life of the believer is not to become legalistic. Legalism is an abuse of the Law: it is a reliance on Law-keeping for acceptance with God, and the proud or the servile observance of laws is no part of the grace of God. The joyfully rendered obedience of love, however, is a quite different thing and is of the very essence of Christian life. For a man to obey God because he loves to do so is not legalism; it is liberty: but, let it be remembered, it is still obedience….
“A sovereign is no less a sovereign because his subjects love him. God does not cease to be God as soon as His people are reconciled to Him; He does not forfeit all rights to command as soon as people come to love Him. There is, therefore, nothing incompatible between love and obedience; for in the truly sanctified life there is loving obedience and obedient love.”
Kevan is of course simply drawing upon the wealth of wisdom found in the writings of those who have gone before, including the Puritans. They rightly knew that the good news of the Gospel makes no sense without the bad news. Grace and law, in other words, are intimately associated.
Without a clear concept of the law and its demands, we will not have a clear concept of our need for Christ. As John Bunyan rightly stated, “The man who does not know the nature of the law cannot know the nature of sin. And he who does not know the nature of sin cannot know the nature of the Saviour.”
The reason so much of our gospel preaching today is so anaemic and ineffective is because we have truncated the good news to a sentimental and sloppy notion of love. We instead need to tie in biblical love with biblical holiness. And until we restore obedience to our understanding of the Christian’s love relationship with Christ, we will continue to flounder and lose our voice.

 

[sparkman]

So you can live how you want, there is no more sin, or if there is what does it matter, it is anyway forgiven.
This is what Pauls talk about saying, do we make void the law through faith, No.
Do we keep sinning because of grace, No.

you did not address my verses I quoted about keeping it in love.

I made no such claim, so I would appreciate you not putting words into my mouth.

Christians have a regenerate nature due to being born again, or born from above. This nature inclines the heart toward obedience to God. The difference of opinion that you and I may have probably relates to the Sabbath, annual festivals and clean/unclean meat laws..perhaps circumcision if you are some extremist. All of these are ceremonial or ritualistic in nature, and I can point to specific Scriptures that state they are no longer required.

In addition, the Old Covenant is no longer in effect, although there are underlying spiritual and moral principles that the Christian can discern through reading with the Holy Spirit.

The reason sin matters is because sin interrupt one's communion with God. It does not interrupt one's union with Christ, but it interrupts one's communion with God. If a person is in sin, he is not at peace because the communion is interrupted. This is a painful experience because the person shares a vital connection with Jesus Christ.

I am assuming you have a works oriented view of salvation and you claim the believer can lose his salvation. This is typical of Judaizers. I would assert that you can never show true love to God with that mentality. If you are subject to condemnation from God, then you only practice obedience out of fear. Your faith is not much better than a Muslim, who obeys his pagan god Allah due to fear. I know God won't give up on me, so I am not afraid of losing salvation, and I render my obedience in love, and not out of fear.

Fear is a good initial motivation, but it's not a very mature one. It's especially good for a non-believer as he is under the wrath and condemnation of God. Scripture informs me, though, that the believer won't experience condemnation (Romans 8:1, John 5:24) and that I already have eternal life.

But in short, sin matters because it interrupts the communion with God, but it does not destroy the union with Jesus Christ. I don't expect works oriented people to believe that though. I don't think most of them really know Christ anyways.

 

[prove-all]

I made no such claim, so I would appreciate you not putting words into my mouth.

.

you made a false slanders claim about others, about satan being sinbearer and Judaizers.

those words come out of you mouth, can you backup this up, or prove me wrong ?


Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV)
16 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.