Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,"

plaintalk · Oct 17, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

to Kaycie:
"John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." (Mark 1: 4) NASB Kaycie, I must respectfully disagree, Mark 1: 4 sounds to me like John's baptism, a baptism of repentance, was for the forgiveness of sins. God bless.

plaintalk · Oct 17, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

If water baptism in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sins is distinct from completely separate from the baptism with the Holy Spirit, then the Apostle Paul was in error because he said there is one baptism. (Eph. 4: 5) If we can agree that there is one spiritual birth of two elements, water and Spirit, perhaps we can agree that there is one baptism of two elements, water and spirit. The baptism in water in the name of Christ is for all men, Jew and Gentile, as many a God shall call to Himself (Acts 2: 38, 39) as is the baptism in the Spirit. (1 Cor. 12: 13)
Cornelius was converted exactly as all men are, except that the order of events were changed. Cornelius was baptized with the Spirit and then he was ordered to be baptized in water in the name of Christ.
When we are baptized in the name of Christ, we are baptized into Christ (Rom. 6: 3; Gal. 3: 26, 27); when we are baptized with the Spirit, we are baptized into one body which is His body, the church. Your language about water baptism in the name of Christ being a picture, is exactly that "your language," not the Bible's. The Bible says that baptism is an appeal to God for a good conscience. (1 Peter 3: 21) NASB Not after the fact, but before. God bless.

mailmandan · Oct 17, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

plaintalk said:

The Apostle Paul is not in error. You simply just don't understand. Go back and read post #380 again. Paul did not mean that there is only one baptism that exists, period. There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism. John clearly understood the distinction between water baptism and Spirit baptism as well. Matthew 3:11 - I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. These are clearly two distinct baptisms.

Living water and Spirit (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39). Not plain ordinary H20 and Spirit. Believers drink into one Spirit when they are Spirit baptized (1 Corinthians 12:13). *Notice the word drink(s) in John 4:10, John 4:14; John 7:37. We don't drink baptismal water.

So you understand that there is a distinction between water baptism and Spirit baptism? Matthew 3:11 is crystal clear. It's also crystal clear that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 received Spirit baptism prior to receiving water baptism.

What order of events were changed? Acts 15:8 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

We are baptized BY ONE SPIRIT into one body which is His body, the church. We are not literally water baptized into the body of Christ, just like the Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses (1 Corinthians 10:2). You need to rightly divide the word of truth. Please go back and read post #367.

It's the Bible's language but you just don't understand. Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." *Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses.

"Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:12,14). This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well (Romans 13:14). Right? NO. This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED. *Notice how I harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion and then I "conform my doctrine to Scripture." Yet you don't harmonize Scripture with Scripture and then you set out to try and force Scripture to "conform to your biased doctrine."

"Put off," wrote Paul, "the old man," and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness"(Ephesians 4:22,24); And, "put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil" (Ephesians 6:11). *This is Bible language.

Baptism is a pledge to God made from a good conscience. It is that aspect (what is signified, "the answer of a good conscience toward God") rather than the external rite (the sign, the application of water) that saves. Water can only cleanse the flesh outwardly; it does not cleanse the heart from sin - not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

Continue to seek for the truth and God bless

GuessWho · Oct 18, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

mailmandan said:

Baptism is not only being immersed in water. If it was like that, then all swimmers would get baptized when they enter a water. Baptism is believing in Jesus Christ and is also a visible mean to enter in God's covenant as a new creature.

mailmandan said:

I think I understand but I am not sure where do you want to go with this.
Also, when you put on a soldier uniform you don't unite with your superiors, but in baptism, you do unite yourself with Jesus Christ. In baptism you receive a charism. The "clothing" you receive in baptism is not a symbol, but real divine light and energy. You receive power from God. You can stain the cloth if you are a negligent christian, but the Church of Christ provides you with means to wash again the stains from your cloth (not through a new baptism because that would be denying the power of the Holy Spirit, but through confession and repentance).

mailmandan said:

That's true. But we must be faithful in all things, right? Even in those which seem (for some people) of little importance.

mailmandan said:

The baptism of John the Baptist is one thing. We are talking here about the baptism that belongs to the Christian Church, a baptism that is distinct, obviously, from the baptism of John. Acts 10 is about gentiles who received the Holy Spirit just as the Jews did at Pentecost. Why refuse to gentiles the water baptism since they too were called by God?
You can call it two baptisms, but the Church today only operates with one baptism, that of water AND Holy Spirit.

mailmandan said:

Yet, that's how the Christian Church understood it. Born of water means born of water baptism.

mailmandan said:

Jesus Chris is the living water, yes. No denial in that. Do you not believe that He is also mysteriously present in baptism?

mailmandan said:

The Church is the Body of Christ, the New Israel, the New Creation, the Kingdom of God.

mailmandan said:

Believers who get baptized do so because they want to become part of Christ' Body, along with the other Christians. And because they want to participate in the life of the Church, in the new way of existence.

mailmandan said:

That doesn't make it less important, does it?

I have a question for you: do you believe that through baptism you unite yourself with Christ, yes or no?
When I got baptized, the priest read prayers of exorcism, asked me if I denied Satan and if I united with Christ. This happened in the part of the church that is closest to the outside door. After I denied Satan and his works and agreed to unite with Christ, the priest lead me in front of the altar (not inside the altar) and baptized me. The altar is the holiest place in Church. The part of the church where I denied Satan is called "pro-naos" and it represents the liturgical space of repentance; it is the part where you pre-taste the goodies of the kingdom of God; a sort of anti-chamber of heaven.

I felt the need to share my baptism because I feel that you are diminishing its importance and I believe you are very wrong in doing so. Baptism is very very important because it irrigates the seed of faith for growth in Jesus Christ. It is not the only mean, but it is a basic and important step for every believer.

mailmandan said:

God bless you, too!

plaintalk · Oct 19, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Consecration to God
Under the old covenant those who were being consecrated to God’s service followed a carefully prescribed course of action. (Ex. 29) After the appropriate sacrifices were made, they were washed with water (v. 4), clothed with the priestly garments (v. 5, Isa. 61: 10, Job 29: 14) an then they were anointed with the oil of gladness at it was poured upon their heads. (v. 7) Since the events and practices of the old covenant foreshadows those of the new, we can better understand God’s requirements under the new covenant by learning from the past. Jesus offered Himself as a sacrifice to God once for all, no other is needed. In our consecration under the new covenant, we are commanded to repent and be baptized in water, in the name of Christ, for the forgiveness of our sins. (Acts 2: 38, 39) This corresponds to the washing with water. But also, in baptism, we are clothed with Christ and His righteousness. (Gal. 3: 26, 27) This corresponds to their clothing with the priestly garments. God has promised that those who repent and are baptized, shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2: 38, 39) Jesus pours out the Spirit upon us richly and abundantly (Titus 3: 5, 6), not just upon our heads, but immersing us with the Spirit. This is our anointing with the Spirit and corresponds with the pouring out of the oi of gladness. (1 John 2: 20, 27; 2 Cor. 1: 21, 22)
Today, many disparage and diminish baptism in water, in the name of Christ, as being a mere rite or ceremony, unnecessary and nonessential. May God forgive us.
At the beginning of His ministry, Jesus, Himself was consecrated to God. He came to John the Baptist to be baptized by him. At first John tried to prevent Him, saying he had need to be baptized by Jesus. He relented when Jesus said, “Permit it at this time, for in this way it is fitting to fulfill all righteousness.” (Matt. 3: 15) Jesus had no need to be baptized as He was without sin, but He did not disdain baptism so that he might fulfill God’s requirements and be examples to those that follow Him. As He came up from the water, the Holy Spirit descended from heaven as a dove, coming upon Him. Thus Jesus was anointed with the Spirit and power. (Acts 10: 38) God bless.

mailmandan · Oct 20, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

GuessWho said:

Baptism is not just about getting wet. Baptism signifies that we believe in Jesus and is the visible picture of being buried with Christ and rising to new life. We believe in Jesus before, during and after getting water baptized. We become new creatures in Christ when we believe in Jesus and receive Spirit baptism prior to receiving water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18).

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the symbol. Without the substance there would be no symbol. Water baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to saving faith in Christ as all rites and works must be. Baptism is for believers, and believers are saved the moment they believe in Christ for salvation (Acts 10:43), and not by rites or good works. This does not remove water baptism and other good works from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and justification.

A soldier is in allegiance to their superiors, just as Christians are in allegiance to Christ. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier. So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on clothes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ in water baptism is not what makes one become a Christian, but which becomes a token of it.

Christians put on Christ in baptism, Christians put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provisions for the flesh to fulfill it's lusts, Christians put on the whole armor of God. Grace is God's unmerited, enabling power. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2). John 13:10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you."

How many of us are faithful in all things 100% of the time? We are not sinless and perfect. So you understand the difference between an "expression" of faith and the "essence" of faith? There is a big difference.

John's baptism looked forward to the Messiah. John's baptism was still baptism in water, just as Christian baptism is still baptism in water, which is distinct from Spirit baptism (Acts 10:43-47).

These Gentiles believed in the Lord Jesus Christ (also see Acts 16:31), received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were saved BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9).

Water baptism and Spirit baptism are not the same baptism. I already explained water and Spirit to you in post #376. John 3:5 does not teach baptismal regeneration. Ephesians 4:5 does not mean that only water baptism or only Spirit baptism is in effect today but not the other or that they are the same baptism. They are both in effect today and are two distinct baptisms, yet there is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism..

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

That's how certain fallible men understood it, but the Bible does not say born of baptism. Jesus connects living water with the Holy Spirit and eternal life (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39) but Jesus NEVER once said that whoever is not water baptized will be condemned. I would be careful to study the Bible for yourself and not just listen to whatever the Roman Catholic church teaches you.

The Holy Spirit is the source of living water that cleanses our hearts (John 7:38-39). Plain ordinary H20 has no power to do that. Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them. I don't see baptism as some mystical experience where Jesus is literally present in baptism. I also don't believe that Jesus is literally present in the Eucharist (transubstantiation) but that's a whole other topic.

The True Church is the Body of Christ which is made up of all born again Christians and is not a building with a name stamped on it.

Believers are already part of Christ's Body through Spirit baptism (1 Corinthians 12:13) prior to receiving water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18).

I'm not saying that water baptism is unimportant, but I'm also not elevating it to the level of being the actual means of our salvation either. It was very important to me. I couldn't wait to get water baptized after I received Christ through faith, but my faith is in Christ for salvation and not in water baptism. Christ is the all-sufficient means of my salvation. No supplements needed.

Symbolically, yes but a symbol (water baptism) is not the reality (Spirit baptism), but the picture of the reality. Baptism as a picture of death and burial symbolizes our likeness to Christ in his death. We shall be also united in the likeness of his resurrection.

Prayers of exorcism? I don't find that in the Bible, but I've heard certain church fathers teach that. It may come as a surprise to Catholics that they do not follow the practice of certain church fathers in the administration of baptism. For example it was common practice that the candidate was immersed three times, whereas the modern Catholic rite consists of pouring water on the head (the Bible nowhere teaches infant baptism). Before baptism, the candidate was anointed with "oil of exorcism" while the presbyter prayed, "Let all spirits flee far away from you." Apart from the fact that there is no scriptural warrant for this anointing, they were also mistaken in their belief that this oil served for the remission of sins even before baptism:

Now this is blessed by the high priest for the remission of sins, and the first preparation for baptism. For he calls thus upon the unbegotten God, the Father of Christ, the King of all sensible and intelligible natures, that He would sanctify the oil in the name of the Lord Jesus, and impart to it spiritual grace and efficacious strength, the remission of sins, and the first preparation for the confession of baptism, that so the candidate for baptism, when he is anointed may be freed from all ungodliness, and may become worthy of initiation, according to the command of the Only-begotten (Apostolic Constitutions, XLII)

During baptism, the candidates had to remove their clothing and stand naked in the water. The newly baptized was not allowed to take a bath for a whole week. We should not feel obliged to follow these fathers in their unscriptural inventions, changing the simple ordinance of Christ into a superstition, not to mention their disregard for public decency. (See Tertullian, The Crown; St Hippolytus of Rome, The Apostolic Tradition).

I believe that water baptism is an important step for every believer, but I refuse to elevate water baptism to the level of saving sacrament, which it is not. Salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). Unfortunately, too many churches teach salvation by works (including water baptism) and have led their congregations astray.

God bless you

zzz98 · Oct 20, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

der said:

Praise the Lord. Jesus said in John 3.5, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Notice through the book of Acts how baptism in Jesus' name, and the filling, or baptism of the Holy Ghost is mentioned together, which would refer to Jesus' water and the Spirit of John 3.5. Some say baptism is a symbol. No where in the Bible does it say baptism is a symbol. Rather Romans 6.3 says, Know you not that so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST, WERE BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH. The Bible says here that we who were baptized in Jesus' name, were actually baptized into his death. Colossians 2.12 says, We are buried with Christ in baptism, wherein also we are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who raised him from the dead. And 1Peter 2.21 says, Baptism does also now save us...BY THE RESSURECTION OF JESUS CHRIST. So being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, we put on his death, and resurrection. As it says in Galatians 3.27 it says, As many of you as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ. In other words those who haven't been baptized into Christ, have not put on Christ. Like it said in Romans 6.3 said, So many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST, WERE BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH. It didn't say nothing about baptism being a symbol. Remember Jesus said in Mark 16.16, He that believes (the gospel) AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED. If other scriptures seem to teach otherwise, you must of misinterpreted them, because Jesus said plainly, He that believes AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED. And 1Peter says baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Now when the Bible says in Romans 10.9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. In other words you will have the opportunity to be saved, because you confessed, and believed. Remember the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8, he confessed with his mouth to Philip, and believed, but he wasn't saved until Philip had baptized him, because Jesus clearly said, He that believes AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED. Acts 2.38 says, Repent, and BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 4.12 says, Neither is there salvation in any other (besides Jesus Christ): for there is none other 'NAME' UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, 'WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED'. It says in 1Corinthians13 was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul. This is why you must be baptized in Jesus' name to be saved as Jesus said in John 3.5 Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. May God bless you. Amen.

I agree! Baptism is not a symbol or an outward whatever for an inner whatever. It is not a symbol

plaintalk · Oct 20, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

The order of events
Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” (Acts 2: 38, 39)
That Pentecost in Acts 2 was the beginning of a new era, repentance for the forgiveness of sins was proclaimed in His name beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24: 47) Ten days prior to this, on the day of His ascension, Jesus instructed His disciples to make disciples of all nations, baptizing the in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things. (Matt. 28: 18-20) At that same time Jesus told His disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation, “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16: 15- 18) The order of events, according to the Scriptures, is—Believe—baptized—saved. Your theology incorrectly changes that order to--- believe—saved--- then be baptized.
Ten days later, at Jerusalem, these instructions are beginning to be carried out. (1) the gospel is preached. (Acts 2: 14- 36) (2) when they heard, they were pierced to the heart (v. 37), because they received (v. 41) the word and believed (v. 44) (3) they asked, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Yes, contrary to your theology, there is something believers must do! (4) Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. (5) and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Spirit is contingent upon repentance and baptism in the name of Christ. (John 7: 39; Acts 5; 32) (6) they were saved (v. 47)
This is the normative order of events. Why do we say normative? Because this is normally the order of events in God’s plan of salvation. It is for “all nations,” “all the world,” “all creation.” It is to the Jews and their children, those that are far off (Gentiles) and all that God shall call to himself. (v. 39) This is for you and me and for everyone else.

But the order of events were altered for Cornelius. Why? Because God was showing Peter and the Jewish Christians that the Gentiles were acceptable to Him. Cornelius received the gift of the Holy Spirit upon believing, before he was baptized in the name of Christ. This was not normative, it was an exception that God made to accomplish His purpose. Cornelius was baptized with the Spirit and in water in the name of Christ. Was that one baptism or two? Paul tells us that there is one baptism that pertains to the unity of the Spirit. God bless.

mailmandan · Oct 20, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

plaintalk said:

Your erroneous arguments have already been thoroughly refuted numerous times. Go back and read posts #343, #363, #380 and #383.

Amen! Those who receive the gift of the Holy Spirit are SAVED. Cornelius was saved upon believing BEFORE water baptism.

This was absolutely normative. Acts 10:43...Whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins...Acts 11:17...If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved)...Acts 11:18...Then God has also granted unto the Gentiles repentance unto life...Acts 15:8...So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Cornelius was baptized with the Spirit FIRST then water baptized AFTERWARDS (Acts 10:43-47).

The one baptism that Paul is talking about in Ephesians 4:5 is Spirit baptism, not water baptism. There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ, yet Spirit baptism is distinct from water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism..

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31). *Perfect Harmony*

Jon4TheCross · Oct 20, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Romans 12:1-3King James Version (KJV)12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Acts 10:46-48King James Version (KJV)[SUP]46 [/SUP]For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The gentiles recieved the Holy Ghost before being baptized. I personally believe that it is much easier to confess your sins and proclaim the decision to repent by being baptized...
After being baptized those gentiles recieved The Word of God.

Ephesians 5:25-27King James Version (KJV)[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[SUP]27 [/SUP]That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The game I have been talking about is designed to encourage more time spent reading the Bible (hearing a measure of The Word of God).

Romans 10:16-18King James Version (KJV)[SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Deuteronomy 6:3-5King James Version (KJV)[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Jon4TheCross · Oct 20, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Acts 15:19-21King James Version (KJV)[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Jon4TheCross · Oct 20, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Galatians 2:9-11King James Version (KJV)[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Budman · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

oldhermit,

Since you seem to take issue with scenarios, I'll ask you directly:

If a person repents and places their faith in Christ, but dies before baptism, does that person go to heaven or hell?

oldhermit · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Budman said:

That is not for you or I to say Budman. We are not the Judge. All I can do is relay to you what the scripture tell us about baptism, its function, and its place within the salvation continuum.

Budman · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

oldhermit said:

It's important in regard to sharing the gospel. And it has certainly came up in many witnessing encounters of mine. But from your position, I must assume, you believe such a person would go to hell, as you trust baptism is a requirement for salvation to be "complete".

If I have misstated your belief, I apologize in advance.

zzz98 · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

If someone repents and accepts Jesus Christ and has every intention of being baptised, yet dies in a car accident before baptism, I believe they will go to heaven

oldhermit · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Budman said:

A person's eternal state is not dependent on what I believe about baptism. It is dependent upon how he believes what scripture says about baptism. If we wish a relationship with God it can only be on his terms, not ours. He is the one who gave us baptism and the Holy Spirit is the one who guided the writers in what they have said about baptism. One can either accept it of refuse it.

oldhermit · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Budman, I would like to challenge you to do something if you have the nerve. Take a look at every verse where baptism is mentioned in the NT and write down everything that passage says about baptism.

Budman · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

oldhermit said:

Okay, this will be my last attempt.

If an unsaved person you were witnessing to, asked you if he would go to hell if he repented and placed his faith in Christ, but died before baptism, what would be your answer to him?

Budman · Oct 21, 2015

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

oldhermit said:

I have read them all, oldhermit. And as I have said before, I am completely convinced, baptism is important as a means of public profession of faith in Jesus, but is not, in any way, a means to help secure salvation.

Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,"

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