I want to understand the Catholic faith so....
- Thread starter Blain
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Back in the 1980's Keith Green wrote 4 tracts about the RCC. He used their material, catechisms, church dogma and compared the RCC to the Bible. What is unveiled is unbelievable and worth a read.
Here is the link:
The Catholic Chronicles by Keith Green
"It is obvious by even this brief glimpse into the doctrines of mortal and venial sins, confession, penance, and purgatory, the the Roman Catholic Church has constructed one of the most unbiblical doctrinal systems that has ever been considered "Christian". The fear, anguish, and religious bondage that such a system of "reward and punishment" creates, has tormented millions of lives for centuries, and continues to prey on those who are ignorant of the biblical way of salvation.
The Roman Church is an Empire with its own ruler, its own laws, and its own subjects. It calls the members of other faiths "separated brethren" (24) and has as its goal the eventual bringing together of everyone under its flag.
Here is the link:
The Catholic Chronicles by Keith Green
"It is obvious by even this brief glimpse into the doctrines of mortal and venial sins, confession, penance, and purgatory, the the Roman Catholic Church has constructed one of the most unbiblical doctrinal systems that has ever been considered "Christian". The fear, anguish, and religious bondage that such a system of "reward and punishment" creates, has tormented millions of lives for centuries, and continues to prey on those who are ignorant of the biblical way of salvation.
The Roman Church is an Empire with its own ruler, its own laws, and its own subjects. It calls the members of other faiths "separated brethren" (24) and has as its goal the eventual bringing together of everyone under its flag.
I know that many will not be convinced or moved by this article to make such a conclusion. They are impressed by what they've heard about recent stirrings among the Catholics in the "Charismatic renewal". Many evangelicals (especially charismatics) have been thrilled by the reports of Catholics speaking in tongues, dancing in the Spirit, having nights of joy and praise, even attending "charismatic Masses".
Mouths that used to speak out boldly against the Church of Rome have been quieted by the times. It no longer is in vogue to speak out against such error (25). Now Protestants unwittingly believe that "our differences are not so great".
I've never completely understood why God led me to write these articles. But it becomes more clear with each day of study and each page of research that the truth of Scripture must be defended for the glory of our Lord Jesus and for those who desperately need to be set free."
Blain, as I have been exhorting you for years, you need to read and get to know what the Bible says. And do read these tracts. They are very revealing and honest.
Blain, as I have been exhorting you for years, you need to read and get to know what the Bible says. And do read these tracts. They are very revealing and honest.
hi blain
I;m and irish woman and i was SAVED OUT OF the roman catholic church if you want to really know what they teach you need to read the roman catholic catechism. I gaurantee you will SHOCKED and totally upset when you read it and you will literally ache to preach the true gospel to them, Here is the link. this is the official teachings of the church or as i say the cult that jesus set me free from and i praise him every single day that he did much love in Christ settled
Catechism of the Catholic Church
I;m and irish woman and i was SAVED OUT OF the roman catholic church if you want to really know what they teach you need to read the roman catholic catechism. I gaurantee you will SHOCKED and totally upset when you read it and you will literally ache to preach the true gospel to them, Here is the link. this is the official teachings of the church or as i say the cult that jesus set me free from and i praise him every single day that he did much love in Christ settled
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Well said! And I would add that, anyone who wants an in depth understanding of the history of the lineage of Pope's and the RCC, I would suggest the book by Dave Hunt called: "A Woman Rides the Beast: The Roman Catholic Church in the Last Days". Then you will see the attitude of the office of Pope and their past and on-going agenda, which is to bring all sects of every belief under her authority and that by force if necessary, just as it was in prior to 1798, which will be accomplished when that man of lawlessness is revealed. Through him, the papacy/RCC will obtain the power that she believes that she is entitled to and that because I believe that one of her Pope's is going to play the part of the false prophet who will be the one performing those counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the antichrist in order to give him credibility of his claim of being God or anything that is called God or worshiped. For all of you who are reading this, including those who are Catholic, get the book and have your eyes opened.
G
Ignorance. My wife was a catholic. And was in that institution for quite a few years as a saved woman. She did a bible study at a community church one summer and was saved there.
Her routine was catholic, it was what she knew, all her friends were there. She spent her time in the desert(catholic institution) and was called out of it in Gods own timing.
She was saved the whole time she spent in that desert.
Her routine was catholic, it was what she knew, all her friends were there. She spent her time in the desert(catholic institution) and was called out of it in Gods own timing.
She was saved the whole time she spent in that desert.
You keep saying you are going, but keep coming back.
You have not refuted anything brought against your church. Here:
God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory, while Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary. Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother, but Catholics call her the mother of humanity, and as if that were not enough, the queen of heaven. Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother, His brother, His sister. Jesus never elevated Mary above others, but Catholics feel a need to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness, (do you really think that she needed to be sinless so that Jesus Christ could be sinless?). They are forced by so-called infallible papal decree to accept the Marian dogmas of her bodily assumption and immaculate conception, neither of which have any basis whatsoever in Scripture. Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven, yet they pray to Mary, because their popes tell them to despite what Jesus explicitly instructed. Scripture clearly states that there is one intercessor between God and man, yet their popes, bishops, priests, parishioners etc, will tell you to pray to Mary, and other dead people, for intercession. They fault those who do as Jesus suggested, while they disobey Him to follow someone else instead. We see nothing in Scripture to endorse her bodily assumption, her perpetual virginity (Jesus had siblings after all, two of whom have books in the Bible!), her immaculate conception. We see no need to pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Jesus in Scripture. Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son. Scripture also tells us not to call anyone Father but God, while they call many men "father" and blindly follow them. They believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus is building His Church on, not a confession of faith divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, despite a plethora of Scriptures that attest to the fact that God is the sole Rock of our salvation. They teach purgatory, and many other things neither the apostles nor Jesus ever taught. For instance, they claim priests must be celibate, when they were not in the early church. Another example would be infant baptism, nowhere promoted in Scripture. They burned people at the stake for daring to read the Bible, which is what Scripture tells us to do. Despite all this, and more, the Catholic Church considers herself the only valid expression of the community of God. I hope you do not allow them to tickle your ears. I did not get most of my info here, but please see this site for more: http://www.bible.ca/catholic-doctrine.htm
You have not refuted anything brought against your church. Here:
God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory, while Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary. Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother, but Catholics call her the mother of humanity, and as if that were not enough, the queen of heaven. Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother, His brother, His sister. Jesus never elevated Mary above others, but Catholics feel a need to not just elevate Mary above others, but they put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness, (do you really think that she needed to be sinless so that Jesus Christ could be sinless?). They are forced by so-called infallible papal decree to accept the Marian dogmas of her bodily assumption and immaculate conception, neither of which have any basis whatsoever in Scripture. Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven, yet they pray to Mary, because their popes tell them to despite what Jesus explicitly instructed. Scripture clearly states that there is one intercessor between God and man, yet their popes, bishops, priests, parishioners etc, will tell you to pray to Mary, and other dead people, for intercession. They fault those who do as Jesus suggested, while they disobey Him to follow someone else instead. We see nothing in Scripture to endorse her bodily assumption, her perpetual virginity (Jesus had siblings after all, two of whom have books in the Bible!), her immaculate conception. We see no need to pray to her, or any ability on her part, as dead as she is believed to be, to intercede on our behalf against the explicit words of Jesus in Scripture. Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son. Scripture also tells us not to call anyone Father but God, while they call many men "father" and blindly follow them. They believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus is building His Church on, not a confession of faith divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, despite a plethora of Scriptures that attest to the fact that God is the sole Rock of our salvation. They teach purgatory, and many other things neither the apostles nor Jesus ever taught. For instance, they claim priests must be celibate, when they were not in the early church. Another example would be infant baptism, nowhere promoted in Scripture. They burned people at the stake for daring to read the Bible, which is what Scripture tells us to do. Despite all this, and more, the Catholic Church considers herself the only valid expression of the community of God. I hope you do not allow them to tickle your ears. I did not get most of my info here, but please see this site for more: http://www.bible.ca/catholic-doctrine.htm
A
I don't usually do this, but I will for you, bro.
I was Catholic. My family is Catholic. So I'll try and do this with the same love I have for my family.
The RCC does have doctrine, but they don't teach it to anyone -- not even the nuns and priests. With that, some do deify Mary, but it's not a doctrine. (Almost voted in as doctrine at one time, but not enough votes.)
Yes, they are loving. Kind of what I like about them, since they are often more loving then most Christians. But it's more of a moral calling, then loving as a natural characteristic. They're called to tithe, help the community, and heaven help us all, if loving family isn't the pillar of where all that love should start. Family is really big. Raising family into the RC Church is huge.
My mortal sin was a vow (check link for what the vows I made were. Most of them are good, and still righteous. It's just that last part of the last vow I disagree with) I had to ultimately break. I'm my younger brother's godmother. In the RCC tradition, that means I was the one to raise my younger brother up to be a good Catholic if Mom died. (I was 11 years and two months old when younger brother was baptized, and I became his godmother, so yeah, I really made that vow and really meant to keep it. I was 16 years and three months old when Mom died. I was 15 years and 50 weeks old when I was born again, so, to say the least, that may have been one of the more confusing times in my life.) Mom knew what happened to me (being born again.) She was happy for me, but she worked hard to become a Catholic herself and made me make those same promises to her before she died.
I tried to keep the vows, but a year later, we went to mass and the priest's sermon was "Mary, the Queen of the Universe." I fumed and had trouble sitting there. In the car, I asked Dad what he thought (with little brother with us) and he laughed saying that was far-fetched. He gave me permission to quit being Catholic, but by that time I was ready for college and little brother was only in the beginning of grade school, so Dad took over his religious "education."
My family truly believes following the Catholic Church is "our faith." That's the part they can't understand/won't understand about how I changed. When my grandmother found out I was getting married outside the Catholic Church she called me. She never, ever called me. (Talked to all her grandchildren on the phone when we were little, but once we were out of the house no calls. Not complaining. Not like I called either -- except to set up when we were going to be in her town to visit her -- but just giving you an idea how big this is.)
No small talk, just one question, "Where is your faith?"
I answered, "In Christ." She sputtered, fumed, and hung up, but she never got what I meant because her faith was always in the Catholic Church.
(Hubby and I were still more than welcomed and greatly loved when we went up to visit her. I don't think she ever got over me wrecking my "faith," but loving is a constant in my family.)
That's why it's hard to pinpoint the difference. It's all wrapped up in God, but the Church is the middle man in the negotiations, as in, follow their teachings and God's happy. You get the big permanent vacation in happy places after death. (And, if you think I'm talking about heaven, on the RCC forum you found, ask them where they go and what they DO after death, and you find out it has very little to do with God. At best, God is the one making sure you're tall enough to go on the rides.)
To get how difficult it is to pin down what Catholics truly believe, I'll list my family, tell what religion they are, and then tell what belief they have:
Dad -- Catholic -- He believes in God, but the OT is a fable for undeveloped people long ago to teach them right from wrong. His "eternal rest" is God's going to let him visit every planet in the universe.
Oldest Brother -- Catholic -- atheist. The only reason he does the RCC bit is because he married a Catholic woman who insisted they raise their children in the Catholic Church.
Older brother -- None -- agnostic. (Only one to dare leave "the church" without replacing it with another church.)
Me -- Presbyterian. (The rest you already know.)
Younger Brother -- Catholic -- Really agnostic. He thinks there's a god, but that god really doesn't bother people anymore. He's also Catholic because his wife insisted on raising their kids in "the church." He's fine with being Catholic, just as long as he doesn't have to think about it much.
Sister -- Catholic -- Still goes to church, still does all the things good Catholics should do, and still thinks god has something to do with the universe loving her. (All the good or bad things in her life she tells how "the universe is working it out.") But she's the one that goes out of way to go grocery shopping for Dad, cleans his house, or to deal with contractors when a hurricane knocked a tree into his roof. And she lives an hour away. (Just to give you an idea how much love and family are the pillars to Catholicism.)
Youngest brother -- Catholic -- closed mouth, so I really can't get what he thinks. Took me eight years of asking questions just to finally find out he's a Democrat. (I think he slipped. lol) But he goes to church and does all the other things good Catholics are supposed to do, including taking good care of his mom and dad. He too goes over to Dad's to clean, and he's the one to give Dad a sooped up desktop computer, because Dad was still using his 486 HP Windows 3.1 five years ago, and he gave his mom a lawnmower when she didn't have the money for a new one, and then went over every weekend to mow her lawn (BIG yard!)
You keep thinking love proves Christianity. It really doesn't. My family loves and yet they aren't Christians.
I was Catholic. My family is Catholic. So I'll try and do this with the same love I have for my family.
The RCC does have doctrine, but they don't teach it to anyone -- not even the nuns and priests. With that, some do deify Mary, but it's not a doctrine. (Almost voted in as doctrine at one time, but not enough votes.)
Yes, they are loving. Kind of what I like about them, since they are often more loving then most Christians. But it's more of a moral calling, then loving as a natural characteristic. They're called to tithe, help the community, and heaven help us all, if loving family isn't the pillar of where all that love should start. Family is really big. Raising family into the RC Church is huge.
My mortal sin was a vow (check link for what the vows I made were. Most of them are good, and still righteous. It's just that last part of the last vow I disagree with) I had to ultimately break. I'm my younger brother's godmother. In the RCC tradition, that means I was the one to raise my younger brother up to be a good Catholic if Mom died. (I was 11 years and two months old when younger brother was baptized, and I became his godmother, so yeah, I really made that vow and really meant to keep it. I was 16 years and three months old when Mom died. I was 15 years and 50 weeks old when I was born again, so, to say the least, that may have been one of the more confusing times in my life.) Mom knew what happened to me (being born again.) She was happy for me, but she worked hard to become a Catholic herself and made me make those same promises to her before she died.
I tried to keep the vows, but a year later, we went to mass and the priest's sermon was "Mary, the Queen of the Universe." I fumed and had trouble sitting there. In the car, I asked Dad what he thought (with little brother with us) and he laughed saying that was far-fetched. He gave me permission to quit being Catholic, but by that time I was ready for college and little brother was only in the beginning of grade school, so Dad took over his religious "education."
My family truly believes following the Catholic Church is "our faith." That's the part they can't understand/won't understand about how I changed. When my grandmother found out I was getting married outside the Catholic Church she called me. She never, ever called me. (Talked to all her grandchildren on the phone when we were little, but once we were out of the house no calls. Not complaining. Not like I called either -- except to set up when we were going to be in her town to visit her -- but just giving you an idea how big this is.)
No small talk, just one question, "Where is your faith?"
I answered, "In Christ." She sputtered, fumed, and hung up, but she never got what I meant because her faith was always in the Catholic Church.
(Hubby and I were still more than welcomed and greatly loved when we went up to visit her. I don't think she ever got over me wrecking my "faith," but loving is a constant in my family.)
That's why it's hard to pinpoint the difference. It's all wrapped up in God, but the Church is the middle man in the negotiations, as in, follow their teachings and God's happy. You get the big permanent vacation in happy places after death. (And, if you think I'm talking about heaven, on the RCC forum you found, ask them where they go and what they DO after death, and you find out it has very little to do with God. At best, God is the one making sure you're tall enough to go on the rides.)
To get how difficult it is to pin down what Catholics truly believe, I'll list my family, tell what religion they are, and then tell what belief they have:
Dad -- Catholic -- He believes in God, but the OT is a fable for undeveloped people long ago to teach them right from wrong. His "eternal rest" is God's going to let him visit every planet in the universe.
Oldest Brother -- Catholic -- atheist. The only reason he does the RCC bit is because he married a Catholic woman who insisted they raise their children in the Catholic Church.
Older brother -- None -- agnostic. (Only one to dare leave "the church" without replacing it with another church.)
Me -- Presbyterian. (The rest you already know.)
Younger Brother -- Catholic -- Really agnostic. He thinks there's a god, but that god really doesn't bother people anymore. He's also Catholic because his wife insisted on raising their kids in "the church." He's fine with being Catholic, just as long as he doesn't have to think about it much.
Sister -- Catholic -- Still goes to church, still does all the things good Catholics should do, and still thinks god has something to do with the universe loving her. (All the good or bad things in her life she tells how "the universe is working it out.") But she's the one that goes out of way to go grocery shopping for Dad, cleans his house, or to deal with contractors when a hurricane knocked a tree into his roof. And she lives an hour away. (Just to give you an idea how much love and family are the pillars to Catholicism.)
Youngest brother -- Catholic -- closed mouth, so I really can't get what he thinks. Took me eight years of asking questions just to finally find out he's a Democrat. (I think he slipped. lol) But he goes to church and does all the other things good Catholics are supposed to do, including taking good care of his mom and dad. He too goes over to Dad's to clean, and he's the one to give Dad a sooped up desktop computer, because Dad was still using his 486 HP Windows 3.1 five years ago, and he gave his mom a lawnmower when she didn't have the money for a new one, and then went over every weekend to mow her lawn (BIG yard!)
You keep thinking love proves Christianity. It really doesn't. My family loves and yet they aren't Christians.
Think there might be a reason for that?
*************************
An old man sat quietly rocking on his front porch when a young couple approached him.
“Sir”, the husband said, “We’re thinking of moving to this town, and wondered if you could give us an idea of what the people are like here.”
“Well”, the old man replied, “What were they like where you came from?”
Both the husband and wife enthusiastically answered that they were friendly, outgoing, and always ready to lend a helping hand.
“Yeah, they’re pretty much the same way here.”, said the old gent.
A few hours later another young couple drove up and they too asked the same question of the elderly man.
“Sir”, the husband said, “We’re thinking of moving to this town, and wondered if you could give us an idea of what the people are like here.”
“Well”, the old man replied, “What were they like where you came from?”
Both the husband and wife snapped back that “those people” were very unfriendly, secretive and reclusive, and never seemed to care a thing about anyone but themselves.
“Yeah, they’re pretty much the same way here.”, replied the old gent.
*************************
An old man sat quietly rocking on his front porch when a young couple approached him.
“Sir”, the husband said, “We’re thinking of moving to this town, and wondered if you could give us an idea of what the people are like here.”
“Well”, the old man replied, “What were they like where you came from?”
Both the husband and wife enthusiastically answered that they were friendly, outgoing, and always ready to lend a helping hand.
“Yeah, they’re pretty much the same way here.”, said the old gent.
A few hours later another young couple drove up and they too asked the same question of the elderly man.
“Sir”, the husband said, “We’re thinking of moving to this town, and wondered if you could give us an idea of what the people are like here.”
“Well”, the old man replied, “What were they like where you came from?”
Both the husband and wife snapped back that “those people” were very unfriendly, secretive and reclusive, and never seemed to care a thing about anyone but themselves.
“Yeah, they’re pretty much the same way here.”, replied the old gent.
I like having Catholics here, because it is a chance to share the actual gospel, instead of the adulterated and perverted doctrine of salvation by works, and never knowing if you are saved that is RCC dogma. Instead, we have the clear words of how to be saved in Romans.
"because if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10
The problem is that you never use the Bible to support these little accusations. You talk about myths, but have yet to refute even one of the objections to the RCC here. Using your doctrine or the Bible.
Have you even read the Bible? I suggest you start with the New Testament. I know many people, including me, have been saved as they have read the Word of God. And I was saved reading a Catholic Bible! If you read it, the same message is in the Catholic Bible as in any Protestant one - that is - Jesus alone saves, as a gift by faith. Nothing to do with a megalithic church mired in incredibly bad doctrine, especially concering how and why we are saved.
Why not give reading the Bible a try? You have nothing to lose but your slavery to the Roman church!
"because if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10
The problem is that you never use the Bible to support these little accusations. You talk about myths, but have yet to refute even one of the objections to the RCC here. Using your doctrine or the Bible.
Have you even read the Bible? I suggest you start with the New Testament. I know many people, including me, have been saved as they have read the Word of God. And I was saved reading a Catholic Bible! If you read it, the same message is in the Catholic Bible as in any Protestant one - that is - Jesus alone saves, as a gift by faith. Nothing to do with a megalithic church mired in incredibly bad doctrine, especially concering how and why we are saved.
Why not give reading the Bible a try? You have nothing to lose but your slavery to the Roman church!
- Status