A strong and independent woman VS a weak and dependent woman

[kaylagrl]

You do not have to tell me about the abuse from men who use "submission" as a weapon to get their way. My father was this type, although he claims to be a christian, he used the submission line on my mother and he used "obey thy parents" on me. It was quite a evil act to watch, someone using something as holy as the bible to twist it in a way so they could commit acts of evil.

I think women are scared of submission because it basically means slavery to them, but if you do research, it does not mean that at all. Its a military term implying rank. If you have a general and a soldier, the soldier must submit to the general, but that does not make him a slave to the general. They are both of equal value.

But to be honest, I really don't care if women submit to men or not and for 2 reasons why.

The first reason is no one can make a woman submit to anything, except under extreme cases of abusers. If a woman does not want to submit to the authority of a man, she won't, so there is no point in bickering about it.

The second reason is she will have to answer to God for why she didn't follow his word.

I guess I would say ultimately to women, don't expect your men to lead, if your not willing to follow.

Well it seems we have something in common! Seems like we grew up in the same situation. Submission didnt mean slavery to me,it meant emotional abuse and manipulation. So if that is your background then submission is a fearful thing if you are a woman.My sister,who married before me,married into the same situation and suffered more abuse,also from a Christian man. So I swore I would never marry. So there is some disconnect of how submission is being taught in the church. Ive seen far too much abuse concerning this. So while its easy to say "she will answer to God" I think He will understand where abuse has been involved. The man who abuses his wife using the Bible to do it will answer also for what he has done.

 

[JeniBean]

So in Genesis 2, CHAPTER 18. GOD tells us that man should not be alone and he will make a companion, "A HELPER SUITED TO HIS NEEDS." That is verbiage for current day. The Hebrews version states OPPOSITE! Hence meaning man and woman are completely opposite.

That being said. Obviously certain men NEED a strong independent woman as their helper. As not every man is great with finances, yet the woman could be. A man might be a really poor dresser, but the independent woman has style and can help him. AND on the other hand a woman may not be great at mowing the lawn and needs a mans help. Or perhaps the woman has a gassy body and needs a man to take the blame should she let it fly accidentally while in public.

My point being is that there is a GOOD OPPOSITE for every man and woman.

I am an independent, successful woman. I will certainly say that circumstances in life, as well as HARD WORK have made me this way. I do not regret who I am, as GOD formed me this way. Certain men are highly intimidated by me. That is their loss. Those who are intimidated; but intrigued however take a chance... have often said that they are surprised what a genuine and loving person I am.

I believe every man and woman has their strengths and when two people are brought together each would need each other for certain things.

I do not feel any man who is comfortable with who they are should ever fear an independent and strong woman. Because in the long run, should something ever happen to that man and you had children you would know that this woman can handle it.

A secure man can handle a woman who makes more income, who runs companies, who can do ANYTHING!!! And I guarantee that independent woman you think you could not date has qualities that if you got to know, you would realize you love.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

So in Genesis 2, CHAPTER 18. GOD tells us that man should not be alone and he will make a companion, "A HELPER SUITED TO HIS NEEDS." That is verbiage for current day. The Hebrews version states OPPOSITE! Hence meaning man and woman are completely opposite.&nbsp;<br>

That's not technically true. If you translate it literally from the Hebrew, it says "I do make to him a helper, as his counterpart". Opposite isn't really the right word to use, as a counterpart doesn't mean direct opposite in this case......rather something that has a complimentary effect on something else. Hence why some versions word it as help meet.

 

[Jilly81]

There was a guy I'd met in the chat room when I was 30, and he and I had been talking a little bit on gmail. Each of us was interested in getting to know the other better. He treated me VERY well, and defended me against bullies in the chat room more than once . Due to schedules, we usually talked in the mornings, and once he typed to me that he was debating between a bagel and Honey Bunches of Oats for breakfast. I told him to eat the HBO, as it was healthier. He typed something like "lol, okay" and got a bowl of it. Now, was he "submitting" to me? Well, you could argue that in a technical sense. The thing was, I gave him a valid reason that I thought it better to eat the cereal, and he acquiesced. Were we to get so far as marriage, he would've likely "let" me "be in charge" of the household's diet, even though he was QUITE traditional/fundamentalist. He probably would've wanted me to be in charge of a number of other things as well, instead of asking his "permission" about everything, similar to the way GraceLikeRain phrased her responsibilities in her first marriage. A good leader will discuss the big things with others. For small things, each have his or her own areas in which he or she is in charge.

 

[JeniBean]

That's not technically true. If you translate it literally from the Hebrew, it says "I do make to him a helper, as his counterpart". Opposite isn't really the right word to use, as a counterpart doesn't mean direct opposite in this case......rather something that has a complimentary effect on something else. Hence why some versions word it as help meet.

The OLD TESTAMENT HEBREW LEXICON uses the word NEGED! (OT:5048) I had my pastor confirm for me and also confirmed at biblestudytools.com

WHY do I find this word NEGED important??? Because it can also be used as further proof in the bible that from the beginning GOD intended a MAN and a Woman (opposites)...henceforth a tool in the gay debate.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

Ha ha, you do happen to win the adorable sarcasm cup of 2015....unless someone tops you by new years

Yay! It is the much coveted cup won 14 consecutive years by Bill Murray's cat! XD

 

[Donkeyfish07]

The OLD TESTAMENT HEBREW LEXICON uses the word NEGED! (OT:5048) I had my pastor confirm for me and also confirmed at biblestudytools.com

WHY do I find this word NEGED important??? Because it can also be used as further proof in the bible that from the beginning GOD intended a MAN and a Woman (opposites)...henceforth a tool in the gay debate.

Your right about the word Neged being present, but it specifically means counterpart. Neged doesn't mean complete polar opposite. Check it out.

Genesis 2 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study

 

[JeniBean]

Your right about the word Neged being present, but it specifically means counterpart. Neged doesn't mean complete polar opposite. Check it out.

Genesis 2 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study

CHECK IT OUT!!!

Neged - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - New American Standard

Sorry, I do not see Counterpart at all!!!!

So I will call RULE 5!!!! Every man should no Rule 5 in life!

 

[RachelP03]

1. To the ladies - how do you think women should be, with or without a relationship, if they must be successful in their professional and personal lives?

I honestly think it has to do with the upbringing of the woman and also the man. I personally was raised to be indepenadant as I was raised by a single mother with no father in my life, and my mom died when I was 16. Its hard a lot of times for me to hand over my responsibilities when a man is in my life, because they have been mine. I am currently reading a book on how the man thinks and what he wants out of a woman and a man needs to be needed and fulfilled. In my relationship now I am trying to make him feel needed without pushing a lot on him. But in this world its hard for a woman to work, mow, clean house, take care of anyone she has too, shop, pay bills, etc. I think when a man looks at a strong woman he likes it, until days and months go by and shes too strong for him. I think its where the woman has to back up to the man in her life and let her be the man and the man also needs to understand the weight that was on her shoulders for so long and he needs to remind her and reassure her that hes there and he can help take that load off of her. Its a time thing, because I was married before and I gave him his responsibility and then he left. I had to take that load again, then I got engaged and it didn't work and again I had to take the load again. So as a woman, it gets harder to keep handing over my responsibilities, because when I have to take them all again, I have to adjust everything.

 

[Fenner]

I know Chris didn't mean any harm or offense in posting this and of course I am not offended by it, I just wanted to post my 2 cents.

I saw the Blindside, I didn't see the other movie that you were talking about.

I really liked the woman who was portrayed in the Blindside, I'm sure you know it's based on a true story. She saw this young man and knew she needed to help. She had the finances to do so, and also I believe she felt this was something God was telling her to do. She had to be strong, she was put into some scary situations. It's not easy to let a stranger into your home and fight for him to stay. A stranger that was raised in a broken system. Her heart told her she was doing the right thing, so she did it. If you remember the scene that she went into a drug house to pick him up. I don't know if that is part of the true story, but it took guts. Not many people would be willing to do that. I would have been really afraid, but she did what she thought was right, and it was.

I can't say that we all always do that. I admire her.

Like Rachel 03 said, it does depend on many things. I went through a lot as a young person. I needed to be strong. I'm glad I am. I am not all for the Duggar way of marriage, like give in to your Husband when almost anytime. To me that's a dangerous message. Your body belongs to you, if you don't want to you don't have to. I'm not saying that's good for a marriage, but you should never ever feel obligated to please someone sexually when maybe you're not feeling well, or frankly that person is a jerk.

I am not the type of woman who would ever obey or be submissive, I'm not a bad, mean or awful wife. I love my Husband, I want to please him, not just the bedroom, but in our relationship in general, but he knew what he got when he married me. I am who I am. I would never be happy in a marriage that one rules over me. It wouldn't work. We work together.

Please don't give me biblical quotes about why I'm wrong, because it's my life and we're happy. Don't tell me he's not happy because you don't know him or me. I love him and trust him. He knows I have my own thoughts and I'm happy to share with him.

I'm not saying submissive women are doormats, I'm just saying, that's not me.

Peace, God Bless.

 

[VioletReigns]

Why are we even using worldly films & movie stars to validate who we are? Spiritual maturity would remind us that we are not to acknowledge one another by outward appearances or characteristics. We are to view one another thru the eyes of Jesus Christ. Don't you remember who Jesus befriended and hung around with? All kinds of characters & personalities. Jesus saw them through eyes of love. And because the Lord didn't judge them and they were free to associate with Jesus just as they were, by the miracle of God's grace they became more like Christ.

Jim Minker, Christian author said: "Too often we become bound by the need to validate ourselves according to what appears to be, rather than according to Christ alone. Too easily we become trapped, constantly seeking the verification that God is working in our lives, rather than simply living as those alive in Christ. We are indeed strangers and aliens in a world that examines and reexamines every minute detail of every event, forward and backward, in the vain attempt to make life make sense in hopes that one will know how to live. We don’t need validation from such a world, for our life in Christ is not dependent upon circumstances."

AMEN to that!

 

[Desdichado]

Women ought to be strongly feminine. Men ought to be strongly masculine.

Level of "success" is irrelevant to the question.

 

[VioletReigns]

I can't even identify Jesus Christ as being "strong like bull" or ultra-masculine. In fact the disciple John, who was originally named one of the rousing "Sons of Thunder", was changed by the Lord's love so drastically that he literally draped himself onto Jesus' chest and referred to himself as "the disciple whom Jesus loved."

And not once did Jesus ever humiliate or criticize harlots (Rahab), women caught in adultery, women with multiple husbands (woman at the well), lower-class minorities (Samaritan woman), women who society deemed unclean (woman with issue of blood), brooding anxious women (Martha), etc. On the contrary, these women by the grace of Jesus Christ are found worthy in God's sight and are historic examples of true faith in the Lord. Nothing is said of their ultra-femininity or submissiveness to men. NOTHING. The only thing that matters is Jesus' love & acceptance of them and their belief in him.

If you are judging people by their outward nature, their particular characteristics, whether or not they are strong or weak, their boldness or their timidity, you are acknowledging them the way the world does. The flesh was crucified with Christ and should not be our barometer of a person's true nature. We are a spiritual dwelling place because of Christ and that is the only measure of a man or woman: Christ within them.

 

[VioletReigns]

When sick, lost & hurting people came into Jesus' presence, they were changed. Jesus' perfect love and total acceptance of people made them feel safe enough to put their guard down and face the truth about themselves. Jesus made it easy for people to see the light. And the more people hung around him, they more they became like him. That's how the love of God works.

Is that how people feel around you?

 

[PoetMary]

Women ought to be strongly feminine. Men ought to be strongly masculine.
Level of "success" is irrelevant to the question.

I think most people would agree that women should be strongly feminine and men should be strongly masculine. The problem is that neither femininity or masculinity are fixed ideas. What is feminine and masculine is largely determined by our surrounding culture.

So, if you try to determine femininity and masculinity based on clothing, we (in 2015) could judge the men of ancient Greece, or the Celts for being feminine and wearing "dresses." Clearly, the robes and kilts of those cultures were not feminine adornments. Additionally, we could judge modern women as masculine for wearing pants, if we presume that pants are somehow inherently masculine. (They're not. No man I know of would be caught dead wearing the cut and style of pants I that wear). Additionally, there are styles from the Middle Ages (like tights) that were considered particularly masculine in the 1400s, but would seem laughably feminine now.

If it's not inherent in clothing, then we move on to roles--division of labor must determine "masculine" and "feminine." Ummm...not so much. While generally speaking tribal life seems to have been divided in terms of men hunting and women gathering, there's not a lot of indication that exceptions to this were judged based on gender. So there are tribes, for instance, where men generally hunted, but sometimes would gather depending on the season, or where women generally gathered, but sometimes would hunt based on necessity. And of course, cultivating livestock changed this equation a bit. When America was largely agrarian, there were times when it was "all hands on deck" in terms of harvesting crops. The wives and daughters who participated in harvest weren't viewed as "masculine." And our perception of these clear-cut roles has vastly changed due to industry and technology. Is a woman inherently less feminine if she's a police officer or a soldier compared to a nurse or teacher? Is a man inherently less masculine if he is a stay-at-home dad or a kindergarten teacher? Does having a particular job or role make you masculine or feminine?

If we can't make definitive statements about clothing or roles, then we're left with characteristics. Again...also fuzzy territory. For example, masculinity is often associated with strength. So in many cultures men are taught that expressing vulnerability (like crying) is "weak" and "feminine." A boy who cries when in pain might be told, "Dry it up and stop acting like a little girl." Also MORAL strength is not included in this definition of "strong." If a man is caught cheating on his wife, his taxes, etc., he might say, "It was a moment of weakness." Nobody claims that a man who is morally weak is "acting like a girl."

People will also say things like "men are logical and women are emotional," when there are piles and piles of evidence to show that men and women both engage with logic and emotion...and that neither is inherently masculine or feminine. So, Jesus weeping for Lazarus or requesting the moral support of the disciples in Gethsemene isn't "girlish" behavior. And Marie Curie testing and retesting and retesting substances in her lab isn't being "masculine."

Ultimately, we're left with "What does it MEAN to be strongly feminine and strongly masculine?"

 

[Donkeyfish07]

CHECK IT OUT!!!

Neged - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - New American Standard

Sorry, I do not see Counterpart at all!!!!

So I will call RULE 5!!!! Every man should no Rule 5 in life!

There is a reason I gave you the source I did. If you will notice, in this verse it actually has a prefix and a suffix attached to it. ("K,neg,Dô")

5048
נֶגֶד
neged
{neh'-ghed}[HR][/HR]From H5046; a front, that is, part opposite; specifically a counterpart, or mate; usually (adverbially, especially with preposition) over against or before.

There are reasons it is translated this way here. You can also compare all English translations and you will never see this translated as opposite here by anyone. The english translations we have are not somehow mistaken and it didn't just slip everyones mind the past 400 years. If you want to cross reference them just compare them all on Bible Hub.

Hebrew is not such a simple language that you can just pick out the root word and just understand every possible meaning of the word regardless of the prefixes and suffixes attached to it and what context it is used in. If it was that easy, everyone would learn it.

 

[Roh_Chris]

Not sure if I must still post here, because my question has already been answered.

 

[AsifinPassing]

I could go either way. For me, it's less about dominance and submissiveness... and more about how we work, play, and relate with each other, continually choosing to want each other whether or not we need each other.