Is Atheism a Religion?

[Dan_473]

Sure, we could pick it apart, but, we still see a model for non-theistic religion.

Religious effort does not need to include God or gods. We understand that those who are religious in their efforts are not necessarily in relationship with God in reality, but that doesn't change the fact...they think they are.

well, imo if 'religious effort' is all that is needed to make something a religion, then the person who tries really hard to be on their high school football team has that as their religion... imo, most people don't use 'religion' that way...

I don't think Zen encourages much effort... then again, one can find examples of just about anything in Zen...

 

[Tintin]

MY GOD, YOU ARE UGLY! GOOD USER NAME. SHOWING ME THAT U DIDNT EVEN COMMENT ON MY TEXT SHOWS ME YOU DIDNT HAVE ANY RESPONSE MAYBE BECAUSE I OFFENDED U, BEING AN ATHEIST?

For an older person you sure are rude. Grow up and stop shouting.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yes. At least according to the Federal Courts.

Federal Court Rules ‘Secular Humanism’ a Religion, Extends Equal Protection Rights to Atheists

Federal Court Rules ‘Secular Humanism’ a Religion, Extends Equal Protection Rights to Atheists | Christian News Network

Then the Federal Government is promoting a form of religion because secular humanism is rooted in mans science (man boasting his so called wisdom and knowledge above that of God's) making himself his own god.

So where is the separation of religion (mans science) and State in this ruling? LOL


1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Mans knowledge (science) is falsely so called because it is actually foolishness to God, but many are deceived by it's power, signs, and lying wonders.

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

 

[Bowman]

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

 

[crossnote]

Here is an enigma, the son of Francis Schaeffer, Franky goes from evangelical up bringing, to Eastern Orthodox to being a Christian Atheist, embracing some pretty strange stuff...

Frank Schaeffer, the Atheist Who Believes in God - The Daily Beast

 

[maxwel]

Here is an enigma, the son of Francis Schaeffer, Franky goes from evangelical up bringing, to Eastern Orthodox to being a Christian Atheist, embracing some pretty strange stuff...

Frank Schaeffer, the Atheist Who Believes in God - The Daily Beast

When you embrace the reality of God (the foundation of all things) as your OWN foundation and starting place for REASON, that allows you to THINK logically, and coherently, by erecting your thought processes upon a solid and logical foundation.

Frank Schaeffer traded in his solid philosophical foundation (the existence of God) for philosophies built in sand - just tumbling, morphing, precarious heaps of illogical, self contradictory madness. He actually said he believes "there IS a God, and there is NOT a God."

He actually believes statements like that are profound, and transcendent, and philosophically meaningful.

That's what's happens when you leave God behind.
You end up spouting contradictory, self refuting, illogical nonsense statements... and lauding yourself for your genius.

 

[crossnote]

When you embrace the reality of God (the foundation of all things) as your OWN foundation and starting place for REASON, that allows you to THINK logically, and coherently, by erecting your thought processes upon a solid and logical foundation.

Frank Schaeffer traded in his solid philosophical foundation (the existence of God) for philosophies built in sand - just tumbling, morphing, precarious heaps of illogical, self contradictory madness. He actually said he believes "there IS a God, and there is NOT a God."

He actually believes statements like that are profound, and transcendent, and philosophically meaningful.

That's what's happens when you leave God behind.
You end up spouting contradictory, self refuting, illogical nonsense statements... and lauding yourself for your genius.

Personally I believe (IMHO) Franky started downhill when he nursed that root of bitterness concerning his father Francis Schaeffer.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Read Daniel 11: 38 and 39. He follows a god of war, and glorifies the strange god.

I take the verses about him making himself god to be him doing what Christ did, mocking the promised Messiah, in order to deceive people away from the One who came to save them, and put them into idolatry. But he will be one with a false, non existent god.

Satan is a false god, all right, but he is not non-existent.

But someone already beat me to the punch on this one, lol.

I would suggest that those who can get to the point where they declare themselves as God, as Antichrist will do, then it betrays that they do not believe in God or gods. If they do, then they assert dominion over God or other gods, which is again, a denial of God, because that which may be known of God makes it clear that there is One Sovereign God, and to assert dominion over God is to assert unbelief.

Hope that makes sense, lol.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Secular humanism is a comprehensive, nonreligious life-stance incorporating: A naturalistic philosophy. A cosmic outlook rooted in science. A consequentialist ethical system.

https://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php/3260


Kefa

That is what the thread is designed to test...their definition of themselves.

Will we also lend credibility their definition of Religion and the religious? That all religions are harmful? Or, for that matter, that there is no distinction between Religion...and Christianity?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

To me there is a link about atheism in Revelation, when we are being spoken to about the seven churches. To me the seven churches are of the spiritual nature, the souls condition and the relationship Jesus says we have with him! It is just not mentioned as atheism..I could be wrong, but this is what I gained from it..Just sharing! If anyone feels I have been misled, please privately message me..Thank you

A Biblical definition of Atheism would be those who are...without God.

Practically speaking, we could conclude that many of the religions of the world are atheistic in nature. We have to broaden the scope to include a modern usage of the word which has a distinct reference to those who make the positive statement "there is no God," but, we do not limit it to that definition, as they seek to. In their understanding, all religions have to have a belief in God or Gods. We would view some of the "gods" of certain religions not to be gods at all, but false gods. Just because Satan is a powerful Angel, a spirit being...doesn't actually make him a god...he is a created being.

In regards to the Seven Churches of Revelation, I view them as collective groups of Christians being warned. Just as all warnings in the New Testament are presented to believers, underlying those teachings are warnings to those who have falsely made a profession, or may have deceived themselves that they are in relationship to God, but are not. Those who are not, are religious.

So I would agree with your assessment, I think we can see atheism in the truest sense in the warnings of Christ. Here is an example of that:


Revelation 2:8-9

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

[SUP]9 [/SUP]I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Here those who "say they are Jews" are said not to be. They are blasphemers and of the synagogue of Satan.

They are without God.

If one replaces God with any god, then they are Practical Atheists. One member rightly pointed out that for the atheist, we could see a "god" for them in Richard Dawkins, who also gives them "holy writings" which they embrace as truth.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

MY GOD, YOU ARE UGLY! GOOD USER NAME. SHOWING ME THAT U DIDNT EVEN COMMENT ON MY TEXT SHOWS ME YOU DIDNT HAVE ANY RESPONSE MAYBE BECAUSE I OFFENDED U, BEING AN ATHEIST?

You are an atheist?

Excellent, welcome to the discussion, LORDYHWH.

Perhaps you can share your thoughts on the premise of the thread, and, if you don't mind, share perhaps why you have chosen Atheism?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

well, imo if 'religious effort' is all that is needed to make something a religion, then the person who tries really hard to be on their high school football team has that as their religion... imo, most people don't use 'religion' that way...

I don't think Zen encourages much effort... then again, one can find examples of just about anything in Zen...

That was kind of the point: religious effort should not be equated to genuine relationship with God.

Secondly, that religious effort is not defined by belief in God or gods.

One can embrace a limited view of the supernatural without embracing Theology. Some scientists might acknowledge the possibility of a dimension we cannot visibly see or identify.

And there is no reason not to see Football as the religion of some.

But, that is not really encompassing all that has been discussed.

Let me present again something that really hasn't been discussed much, and we are seeing repeated limited definitions of religion given, which obscures a broader understanding of religion in general:


Wikipedia

A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.[SUP][note 1][/SUP] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe. From their beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people may derive morality, ethics, religious laws, or a preferred lifestyle.


Now tell me...which of these cannot be seen a relevant to Atheism?

It's easy to try to limit definition of any issue and then proceed to deny correlation to other relevant issues, but this is not going to be the case with Religion.

We could limit it to "Religion is the belief in God or gods," and that is true. But are those religions lacking other very relevant aspects which distinguish them? Can we say "All religions worship God?" Would you agree with that? Can we say that the gods of all religions are in fact gods? Is there any less denial of Deity to those who we view as worshipping demons as opposed to those religions that acknowledge the God of the Bible?

But, if you would, look at the definition given above and point out what cannot be seen as relevant to Atheism.



God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

For an older person you sure are rude. Grow up and stop shouting.

How another member posts is not really an issue, in my view.

I don't myself see this as shouting, not when all caps are used consistently. I would see something like "I tried to tell you the truth BUT YOU WILL NOT LISTEN!" to be shouting, lol.

And even then, those not aware that caps indicate shouting might be viewed as new to forum interaction, so my view is that we do not discourage anyone, particularly an atheist, from joining the discussion.

We can overlook what we see as poor forum etiquette for the sake of having a chance to speak with someone who is the very reason for threads like this, right?

Let's focus on what he has to say, rather than how he is saying it. I for one greatly desire to have discussion with him.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Without question one of the funniest posts I have seen in a while, thanks for that, Bowman.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Here is an enigma, the son of Francis Schaeffer, Franky goes from evangelical up bringing, to Eastern Orthodox to being a Christian Atheist, embracing some pretty strange stuff...

Frank Schaeffer, the Atheist Who Believes in God - The Daily Beast

I wasn't aware of the relation. Somewhere along the line "the daily beast" has come up, and I can't remember if I interacted with the site directly, or addressed an article there.

Thanks for the info.

He does have one thing going for him, though, that perhaps there is a foundational teaching he may return to one day.


God bless.

 

[Goodness11]

I wasn't aware of the relation. Somewhere along the line "the daily beast" has come up, and I can't remember if I interacted with the site directly, or addressed an article there.

Thanks for the info.

He does have one thing going for him, though, that perhaps there is a foundational teaching he may return to one day.


God bless.

Sounds like Frank's father was more into experimentation of psychedelics than praising God!? Speaking of communes; would polygamists be a form atheism if it goes against current laws? There's a community in Southern B.C called Bountiful that went through the courts to allow multiple marriages. The court viewed multiple marriages were against civil rights of children and young brides. There is obviously no designated God; but the people are trying to create their own belief system.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/bri...face-polygamy-child-related-charges-1.2735785

So I'm hoping this will open a discussion in regards to communes or cults; most 'secular humanists' would even disagree with a commune or cult format. Thus is this also creating fractions of atheistic religions!?

 

[P1LGR1M]

Sounds like Frank's father was more into experimentation of psychedelics than praising God!? Speaking of communes; would polygamists be a form atheism if it goes against current laws? There's a community in Southern B.C called Bountiful that went through the courts to allow multiple marriages. The court viewed multiple marriages were against civil rights of children and young brides. There is obviously no designated God; but the people are trying to create their own belief system.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/bri...face-polygamy-child-related-charges-1.2735785

So I'm hoping this will open a discussion in regards to communes or cults; most 'secular humanists' would even disagree with a commune or cult format. Thus is this also creating fractions of atheistic religions!?

And this is the beauty of getting together to discuss things, lol, because we can draw from the questions and perspectives of other Members of the Body.

Interesting question. Going to think on this before I respond. I will just say that communal living doesn't have to demand an aspect of Deity, and perhaps you, or someone else might know of a good example?

And by the way, this is the first time this has come up in this thread (which has been on quite a few forums), so I look forward to seeing where it goes, and how it will contribute tot he discussion as a whole.


God bless.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Satan is a false god, all right, but he is not non-existent.

But someone already beat me to the punch on this one, lol.

I would suggest that those who can get to the point where they declare themselves as God, as Antichrist will do, then it betrays that they do not believe in God or gods. If they do, then they assert dominion over God or other gods, which is again, a denial of God, because that which may be known of God makes it clear that there is One Sovereign God, and to assert dominion over God is to assert unbelief.

Hope that makes sense, lol.


God bless.

Thats what I mean with the "acting like Christ" thing Christ was God, with us. The anti christ will do the same. Christ honored a God while He was with us, the God of Abraham. But He also told us that He was "He".

I believe the anti christ will do the same, but from a religion where Christ was "just a prophet", one that preaches that His followers "have it wrong", and one that claims Christ will come to tell us this, and to point to the /real/ messiah.

I believe that version of "Christ" will be the false prophet, though But yeah, he will do as Christ did, claim to be god on earth, but in the name of a false god created by satan.

 

[ember]

ok ok

it's a religion with it's reward in hell instead of heaven

that should settle it

 

[Dan_473]

That was kind of the point: religious effort should not be equated to genuine relationship with God.

Secondly, that religious effort is not defined by belief in God or gods.

since 'religion' is a word in common usage, imo its usage isn't going to be as tight as, say, ones used in math. So yes, atheism can be seen as a religion... imo, it won't make much impact on atheists to say that since they put effort into something, they are religious...

Wikipedia

A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.[SUP][note 1][/SUP] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe. From their beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people may derive morality, ethics, religious laws, or a preferred lifestyle.


Now tell me...which of these cannot be seen a relevant to Atheism?

many atheists have beliefs, but atheism itself doesn't require any beliefs, imo... and some atheists may say that there is no 'order to existence'... that the universe is essentially random...

if religion is defined as any philosophy that impacts one's worldview (or 'life stance')... then again, yes, atheism is a religion... but then we're saying that atheists have a philosophy... I think most atheists would agree with that...