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The promises... plural, all the promises were made to Abraham and his seed Christ. And the only reason Abraham was heir to the promises was because he belonged to Christ.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
E
So many nations coming from Abraham is only a promise of Christ?
Gen 17: [SUP]4 [/SUP]“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.
Where do you all come up with this stuff??
Abraham had many sons, and he was the father of many nations. What does this have to do with the salvation of one person? And what does it have to do with Christ?
Yep. In your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
That has NOTHING to do with the land promise, or the promise he would father many nations.
Gen 17: [SUP]4 [/SUP]“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.
Where do you all come up with this stuff??
Abraham had many sons, and he was the father of many nations. What does this have to do with the salvation of one person? And what does it have to do with Christ?
Yep. In your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
That has NOTHING to do with the land promise, or the promise he would father many nations.
E
Hmm. Well lets see. According to that passage, The promise was the world. Not a particular land in the middle east.
Do you really want to go down this street? I know you are smart enough to know the world and a small peace of land are not the same thing. Or maybe I am wrong about that and you do not realise this??
And what does this have to do with Abraham being the father of Edom, And Sireal, And many other nations?? (even most Islamic nations claim him to be their father, which is most likely true, God promised him many nations he would be the father off.
Do you really want to go down this street? I know you are smart enough to know the world and a small peace of land are not the same thing. Or maybe I am wrong about that and you do not realise this??
And what does this have to do with Abraham being the father of Edom, And Sireal, And many other nations?? (even most Islamic nations claim him to be their father, which is most likely true, God promised him many nations he would be the father off.
I just realized how profound that question was lol. Romans 4:13 is talking about Genesis 13:14-15 which is the land the Zionist claim belongs to National Israel. The promise that you Zionist believe is that little spot of land in the middle east is actually THE ENTIRE WORLD.
Gen 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Gen 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Than why do you claim that the O.T. is a Christian book since the promises from the O.T. have nothing to do with the cross?
How can you not see? The very reason why you are a Christian is because you believe that the promises from the O.T. have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the promise! The piece of land became the Church which Christ founded. Why else would we claim the O.T. to be our book?
You seem to be saying that God kept and at the same time hasn't kept His promises? Which one is it? You either believe that God kept His promise by sending to us (both Jews and Gentiles) Jesus Christ, either you believe He didn't kept His promise because the promise didn't come in the form expected by most of the Jews.
You can't have the two of them. It's either one either the other one. If you believe that God fulfilled His salvific promise for the Jews and for the entire world, and become a christian, either you don't and stay Jew. That's all what it is about.
Why don't you believe that God already kept His promises to the Jews since the very first Christians were Jews believing that God did kept His promises to them?
If that's the only way you can deal with uncomfortable comments that put your position in danger...
I haven't seen this phrase or else I wouldn't have responded either. But I decided to not delete what I wrote and respond anyway. Also, anytime this nonsense that God didn't kept His promises towards the Jews will show up, I will be there too, in order to speak the truth.
How can you not see? The very reason why you are a Christian is because you believe that the promises from the O.T. have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the promise! The piece of land became the Church which Christ founded. Why else would we claim the O.T. to be our book?
You seem to be saying that God kept and at the same time hasn't kept His promises? Which one is it? You either believe that God kept His promise by sending to us (both Jews and Gentiles) Jesus Christ, either you believe He didn't kept His promise because the promise didn't come in the form expected by most of the Jews.
You can't have the two of them. It's either one either the other one. If you believe that God fulfilled His salvific promise for the Jews and for the entire world, and become a christian, either you don't and stay Jew. That's all what it is about.
Why don't you believe that God already kept His promises to the Jews since the very first Christians were Jews believing that God did kept His promises to them?
If that's the only way you can deal with uncomfortable comments that put your position in danger...
I haven't seen this phrase or else I wouldn't have responded either. But I decided to not delete what I wrote and respond anyway. Also, anytime this nonsense that God didn't kept His promises towards the Jews will show up, I will be there too, in order to speak the truth.
E
He was never the heir of the world.
And I never claimed he was
1. He was the father of many nation (not the whole world)
2. One of His offspring was given a plot of land
Again, You need to stop. Your arguments are invalid and false. your not listening to a word I say, and basing your arguments on false precepts. Thus your making yourself look bad
And I never claimed he was
1. He was the father of many nation (not the whole world)
2. One of His offspring was given a plot of land
Again, You need to stop. Your arguments are invalid and false. your not listening to a word I say, and basing your arguments on false precepts. Thus your making yourself look bad
E
please stop talking to me. Someone just like you came in once before and said I was going to hellbecause I believe God keeps all his promises and not just some.
She got me angry and I said some bad stuff. I will not fall for people like that again. She is no longer here (unless your perhaps her??)
God giving a nation a plot of land is not a salvic issue. If you make it so. you preach a false gospel and you need to worry about more important issues than what Will god do or not do in the future, Your eternity is In danger. (Of Course I am sure you do not believe this)
I refuse to talk to someone who judges ones salvation based on these things.
She got me angry and I said some bad stuff. I will not fall for people like that again. She is no longer here (unless your perhaps her??)
God giving a nation a plot of land is not a salvic issue. If you make it so. you preach a false gospel and you need to worry about more important issues than what Will god do or not do in the future, Your eternity is In danger. (Of Course I am sure you do not believe this)
I refuse to talk to someone who judges ones salvation based on these things.
God came to His own and His own did not accept Him....remember?
So, He pretty much kept His promises towards them.
They rejected Him because they expected that Messiah's salvific agenda meant chasing the occupying rule (the Romans) and grant them a land where they can freely live. Instead He gave them freedom of sin and death: they spit Him in the face for that.
So, He pretty much kept His promises towards them.
They rejected Him because they expected that Messiah's salvific agenda meant chasing the occupying rule (the Romans) and grant them a land where they can freely live. Instead He gave them freedom of sin and death: they spit Him in the face for that.
Romans 4:16-25
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”[c] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[d]19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”[c] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[d]19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
On the road to Emmaus, Jews discussed about what happened, about how the Jew leaders crucified Jesus Christ and about how some Jews hoped that Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah, the One that was going to redeem Israel. And then Jesus Christ revealed to them as being the Messiah. He told them "how foolish you are and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah had to suffer these things and then enter His glory?"
How foolish can you be to call yourselves Christians and not understand these basic things?
How foolish can you be to call yourselves Christians and not understand these basic things?
K
Quote "How are the Jews God's chosen people if they don't accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah? "
[h=3] Romans 11....The Remnant of Israel[/h]
I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all!Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
Romans 7...“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”
Quote "Don't believe for one second that you will intimidate me and my strong beliefs that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that His Church is His true Israel, His chosen people."
Guess who you need to calm yourself. You can believe whatever you wish. No one is trying to intimidate you.So you need to settle down.This is a discussion. I did not say Jesus was not the Messiah.Do not put words in my mouth. The church is NOT the true Israel. The Jews are still Gods chosen people. Please read the Bible and study this further.If you are honest you will see God still has a plan for the Jews. But whatever you believe is up to you.
Quote "You want to call me an antisemitic? So, call me one! "
Point to the post where I called you antisemitic,you cant.
Quote "They never put the Jews in Concentration Camps, never killed Jews, never preached killing of the Jews and. If you can't see the difference between scolding someone and killing someone than you have some problems!"
Guess Who read history and get back to me. Clearly you have no idea of history or you are being obtuse.I did not say the Eastern Orthodox Church persecuted the Jews or every Christian church,I said MANY did. The Catholic church certainly did as did Protestant. The quotes I posted by some church fathers was not scolding it was antisemitic and hateful.
Quote "...for their stubbornness, for their hearts of stones, for rejecting Jesus Christ"
There are Gentiles who have rejected Christ,WE rejected Christ before we were saved.Someone loved us enough to share the Good News with us and show us the love of Christ. Where is your love for the Jewish people Guess Who? Because all Im seeing is anger.
Quote "Also, the Churches who consider themselves the New Israel are the only ones that are truly aware of their Jewish roots."
You're as blind as the Jews! Read Romans 11,you are not the New Israel!
Quote "If you want to say that God didn't fulfill His promises towards the Jews, very well!"
I didnt say God didnt fulfill His promises,you are saying that!
Quote "But don't call yourself a christian when you choose to say so!
So now Im not a Christian?! Funny how every discussion ends "you're not a Christian" when you cant beat people to submit to your doctrinal errors.
Quote "Have some decency, you and people like you!"
I know how Jews feel about Christ.Once again as Romans says the Jews have been blinded,for a time. The Jews dont believe in Jesus right now. Romans 11 explains why. It also says GOD HAS NOT FORSAKEN THE JEWS. You seem very angry and bitter. Gentiles curse Christ every day,what point are you making about Jews? Unbelievers act like unbelievers,as you did once. But someone showed you the love of Jesus.Your attitude is very un-Christlike. I simply dont understand it.
So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.
(Rom 11:11)
Stumble= πταίω. 1aor. ἔπταισα; from a basic meaning stumble against something; intransitively and figuratively in the NT, of failing to do God's will stumble, err, sin
Fall= πίπτω. impf. ἔπιπτον; fut. mid. πεσοῦμαι; 2aor. ἔπεσον and ἔπεσα; pf. πέπτωκα; fall; (1) literally; (a) as coming down forcefully from a higher to lower level fall, drop (AC 20.9); (b) of buildings and walls collapse, fall into ruins (HE 11.30); (c) of a person, as suddenly dropping from an upright position fall down, tumble.
(Analytical Lexicon of the New Testament)
The idea is that the word for stumble is not a complete fall, but a partial fall. Too many of the replacement crowd are taking 'stumble' to mean the second meaning i.e. a complete fall to ruin.
(Rom 11:11)
Stumble= πταίω. 1aor. ἔπταισα; from a basic meaning stumble against something; intransitively and figuratively in the NT, of failing to do God's will stumble, err, sin
Fall= πίπτω. impf. ἔπιπτον; fut. mid. πεσοῦμαι; 2aor. ἔπεσον and ἔπεσα; pf. πέπτωκα; fall; (1) literally; (a) as coming down forcefully from a higher to lower level fall, drop (AC 20.9); (b) of buildings and walls collapse, fall into ruins (HE 11.30); (c) of a person, as suddenly dropping from an upright position fall down, tumble.
(Analytical Lexicon of the New Testament)
The idea is that the word for stumble is not a complete fall, but a partial fall. Too many of the replacement crowd are taking 'stumble' to mean the second meaning i.e. a complete fall to ruin.