The sabbath cults - making an idol of the sabbath.

[GandalfTheWhite]

what law are we dead to?

The law written on stone please get it right.

So God made a mistake and He changed His perfect plan when Jesus died?

Interesting, my Bible tells me God is a non-changing God and that the law is perfect. David went so far in as telling the reader of the Bible that he loved the law. Jesus kept the law to perfection and while He did that He showed mercy and grace. The problem was never with the law but with the law keepers. If there is a problem with our relationship with God, we are the problem not God. He is perfect. This is not a difficult concept.

Man corrupted the law not God. Strange how we want to judge people on their actions but we want to be judged on our intensions.

 

[gotime]

So God made a mistake and He changed His perfect plan when Jesus died?

Interesting, my Bible tells me God is a non-changing God and that the law is perfect. David went so far in as telling the reader of the Bible that he loved the law. Jesus kept the law to perfection and while He did that He showed mercy and grace. The problem was never with the law but with the law keepers. If there is a problem with our relationship with God, we are the problem not God. He is perfect. This is not a difficult concept.

Man corrupted the law not God. Strange how we want to judge people on their actions but we want to be judged on our intensions.

I did not say God made a mistake, I am going to assume that you don't read my posts normally, because if you did you would know that I believe that all 10 commandments are to be kept by Gods people.

and when people get how I can believe that and still say what I said about being dead to the law on stone then they will understand the new and old covenant.

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus teaches us how to observe the Sabbath lawfully, and not as some kind of intellectual idol.

This is the problem with all who are under the law and all who view the law as competing with kGod, that is the grace only folks.

Jesus has taught us to obey and understand teh law, and never be "under the law," as are any who do not understand the teachings of Jesus Christ. I say they are under the law because they are yet afraid of the law, when our Master has rendered teh law harmless to those who know Him.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I did not say God made a mistake, I am going to assume that you don't read my posts normally, because if you did you would know that I believe that all 10 commandments are to be kept by Gods people.

and when people get how I can believe that and still say what I said about being dead to the law on stone then they will understand the new and old covenant.

I apologise if I did read your post wrong Gotime. My mistake

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Makes sense to childlike hearts, but not to the yesbut crowd. "Yes, but..."

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are just plain ignorant. I'm not going to waste my time.

In case he doesn't return to read your opinion, I'll let you insult me instead. I call them law cultists.

 

[posthuman]

In case he doesn't return to read your opinion, I'll let you insult me instead. I call them law cultists.

why is it so easy for us, having this work in us begun by spirit, to think we are perfected by flesh?
even that it was born in us not of ourselves but of God, to think that we complete what He began?

my friend says we have "mixed up thinkers and broken feelers" -- always in need of a Great Physician

 

[JaumeJ]

To totally ignore the law is to ignore Jesus Christ for He has taught us to use the law lawfully. He destroyed that curse of the law, death, once and for all. He teaches us all how to observe lawfully. Do the grace people even read what He has taught?

An eye for an eye is rescinded by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek. Does this sound like merciless law?

He rescinded the law for the adulteress being stoned death, and the adulterer too, with clemency. Does this sound like merciless law?

He teaches it is just fine to do good on the Sabbath, a doctor may practice, a man may work to support his family, etc. Does this too sound like merciless law?

Why do the grace only people pervert the teachings of Jesus Christ? Perhaps not all do, but those most vociferous do, and they call the wisdom of the law dead. Like the Pharisees, they doo not know the law except with the veil of Moses over their eyes, for the do not use or see the fuel of the law under grace, that being justice, mercy and faith as, again, Jesus Christ teaches.

To the VGO', stop telling me I am under the law when I know the truth of Jesus Christ and study His teachings. God bless all, especially all in Jesus Christ, amen.

 

[gotime]

I apologise if I did read your post wrong Gotime. My mistake

No probs, I have to admit it would be easy to read that post wrong.

I find the mistake people are making (not you) is calling the 10 commandments the Old covenant when that is not true. The Old Covenant is the 10 commandments on stone.

 

[PeterJens]

I wonder why is it after so much discussion people do not use the words, justification.
I am not justified by the law, or under its condemnation, but my heart in the Spirit obeys the law.

If I claim to walk in the Spirit yet do not keep the precepts of the law, I am not walking correctly.

It is always easy to say these words here,"......." must be followed in this "........" way than working out how love in Jesus works through everything. Once you say we are free from condemnation, I find it strange how quickly people set up another set of rules by which to condemn people rather than looking for blessing it brings from peoples lives.

It is impossible to not judge obvious sin, but not as in condemnation, but as in setting the slave free from bondage. I have often seen people not want to get involved than finding out why problems and addictions exist. Maybe the fear is they actually have the same addictions and similar issues but no solutions, so it is just best avoided.

It is so much easier to say, look how good I am, keeping the sabbath, this must make up for all the other crap I do.

I suppose it is always like saying a patch up job is all that is needed rather than total surrender and a remake job.

 

[Roberth]

In case he doesn't return to read your opinion, I'll let you insult me instead. I call them law cultists.

Have you ever read any of my posts? I'm sure you have....Have I ever placed you or anyone under law? No! So I'm not taking up for the Sabbath under law....As a matter of fact I'm not supporting murder, or adultery, under law. To be under law means death.

So not all who promote the Sabbath, as a sign of justification by faith, are promoting legalism.

 

[Roberth]

Paul also said, Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day...

due to Jesus having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness.

Paul is writing about the ceremonial Sabbaths, feast days, food & drink offerings, etc as found in Lev 23. These were shadows that pointed to Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of these shadows and therefore they are meaningless this side of the cross.

The Sabbath of creation is not a shadow because it existed before the fall. Anyway, I'll be discussing this here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-justification-faith-hebrews-chapter-4-a.html

 

[FreeNChrist]

.......HEBREWS 4

 

[Ahwatukee]

Paul is writing about the ceremonial Sabbaths, feast days, food & drink offerings, etc as found in Lev 23. These were shadows that pointed to Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of these shadows and therefore they are meaningless this side of the cross.

The Sabbath of creation is not a shadow because it existed before the fall. Anyway, I'll be discussing this here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-justification-faith-hebrews-chapter-4-a.html

Which brings us right back to our own efforts by adding to the Lord's sacrifice. Christ met the righteous requirements of the law completely and by receiving him as Lord and Savior we enter into God's rest. When anyone brings in another requirement along side the shed blood of Christ, no matter what it is, that person is in essence saying that Christ's sacrifice was incomplete. Our faith and resulting salvation is obtained by completely trusting in Christ for salvation without the need for our own efforts, be it observing Sabbath days, holy days, abstaining from foods, good works, etc. It is no wonder that the Lord said that many would say to him on that day, "but Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?" The point being that their response to not being able to enter into the kingdom of God being "did we not" demonstrating that those who will say this will have been trusting in their own efforts. If the Sabbath was a requirement for salvation, it would be written all over the place in the NT, but we don't see mentioned as a requirement even once. Surely something as important as keeping the Sabbath as a requirement for salvation and eternal life would be mentioned over and over again under the new covenant.

If a Christian feels led to keep the Sabbath, then they are free to do so (Rom.14:5), but not as a requirement for salvation. However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Col.2:16). Further, those who do not keep the Sabbath should avoid being a stumbling block (1 Cor.8:9) to those who do keep the Sabbath. Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue: “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

 

[JaumeJ]

If we do anything with the intention of making propitiation for our own wrong-doing, sin, we are in error, however we would be total ingrates were we to shirk good works given us by God, Himself, once we are in grace.. As long as we avail ourselves to God in thanksgiving, we will be given good works. It is hardly an effort accepting the gift of the Sabbath from God, and honoring Him in so doing. We do it according to the teaching from the Master, Jesus Christ.........

 

[oldthennew]

AMEN...

'If you Love Me, keep My Commandments'.

extremely simple to understand...
EPH.2:8-9-10.
For by grace are you saved through Faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before
ordained that we should walk in them....

Paul is intentionally making the contrast between salvific works' which are 'useless' and
between works of the Kingdom significance, that we may know the difference -

again, Salvific Works are useless, but Kingdom Works have Eternal Consequences....

 

[Roberth]

If a Christian feels led to keep the Sabbath, then they are free to do so (Rom.14:5), but not as a requirement for salvation. However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Col.2:16).

Both Rom 14:5 and Col 2:16 are referencing these holy days found in Lev chapter 23. The issue was never Sunday keeping vs Sabbath keeping. It's just not there. So Paul never had in mind Sunday vs Saturday.

 

[KohenMatt]

AMEN...

'If you Love Me, keep My Commandments'.

extremely simple to understand...
EPH.2:8-9-10.
For by grace are you saved through Faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before
ordained that we should walk in them....

Paul is intentionally making the contrast between salvific works' which are 'useless' and
between works of the Kingdom significance, that we may know the difference -

again, Salvific Works are useless, but Kingdom Works have Eternal Consequences....

ANY commands that God has given at ANY times are good commands, God doesn't set forth commands that might be good at one time and evil at another. Therefore ANY commands God has given are good to follow, and should be followed if someone wants to commune with our Father.

Of course obedience needs to be put in proper relationship to merciful salvation, but they don't have to mutually exclusive, even though there are some on either end of the Law debate.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If we do anything with the intention of making propitiation for our own wrong-doing, sin, we are in error, however we would be total ingrates were we to shirk good works given us by God, Himself, once we are in grace.. As long as we avail ourselves to God in thanksgiving, we will be given good works. It is hardly an effort accepting the gift of the Sabbath from God, and honoring Him in so doing. We do it according to the teaching from the Master, Jesus Christ.........

Yes, but it is imperative to understand that neither the keeping of the Sabbath nor "good works" are a requirement for salvation. Salvation is obtained by receiving Christ as Lord and savior apart from works. Good works are the result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and were prepared for us by God in advance for us to do (Eph.2:10). We are not talking about "shirking good works given us by God" but about how one is saved. Good works come after. We are credited with righteousness by faith and faith alone, trusting in Him who justifies the wicked. Salvation is a free gift through faith, it then stops being a free gift once we bring in our own efforts. Our personal works as a means for salvation cancels out grace.

Cornelius' household is a good example of salvation by grace through faith alone. For as Peter was still preaching the gospel to them, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those in his household, speaking in languages and prophesying and that without being baptized, keeping a Sabbath or anything else. For as the scripture says, "he purified their hearts by faith."

 

[JaumeJ]

Almost all of us who have been labeled as "under the law," are very much aware of this imperative..

There is another imperative, however, and that is that none who believe as I, have accused any of not being in Christ simply because they do not believe as we, where as, I for one have been accused of not accepting the grace of Christ's sacrifice for our sin, which is the farthest from the truth one may achieve.

I have mentioned there are many who do not see Christ's teaching of how the law is to be approached now, after we are saved by grace. I have indicated this for the good of those who do not recognize these teachigns from our Lord. He teaches of this in His sermon on the Mount for one, and in His own acts.

There is nothing wrong with being children of obedience as is taught in the Epistle to the Ephesians, and throughout the New Testament.

People who know Jesus Christ, hear Him, for they know His voice.