Ultimate Questions - Can Religion Help?

[PeterJens]

I got to laugh. You guys are religious, you are so religious you are in denial. Religion is only a general description of talking about metaphysics or the ideas around the spiritual side of life.

What you are describing as religion is the outside of faith, but without the heart. No matter what our take of faith we all have our cermonies, behaviour, traditions, things we respect and people we admire etc.

I knew a woman who was not that stable but wanted to go to church. My advice was if it was a positive and helpful experience for her, it was a good thing. You may find it strange but some people cannot cope with too much noise, emotional expression. So though they believe, they stay away. Some need comtemplative groups, others thrive on over the top expression, some can float on elation.

I have had people say praising the Lord has nothing to do with emotion, so being slain in the Spirit could never be emotional overload. Strange a shock can cause people to faint, to much happiness, yet having fellowship with the creator of the universe you are level as a pancake. People lie to themselves so easily. Yes we are all religious, but there is truth and reality in religion as well as hypocracy.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Semantics, my brother. You're talking semantics.

Jesus is all we need; He restores our relationship with the Father. Remember, relationship, not religion.

The relationship is part of the religion though. I think people don't understand what religion is anymore. Not that I fault them considering there are more false religions and heresies in our time than I can count.

Perhaps it be beneficial here to posit the general definition of religion:

Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.


3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.


4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.


5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.


7. religions, Archaic. religious rites: painted priests performing religions deep into the night.

 

[Utah]

I got to laugh. You guys are religious, you are so religious you are in denial. Religion is only a general description of talking about metaphysics or the ideas around the spiritual side of life.

What you are describing as religion is the outside of faith, but without the heart. No matter what our take of faith we all have our cermonies, behaviour, traditions, things we respect and people we admire etc.

I knew a woman who was not that stable but wanted to go to church. My advice was if it was a positive and helpful experience for her, it was a good thing. You may find it strange but some people cannot cope with too much noise, emotional expression. So though they believe, they stay away. Some need comtemplative groups, others thrive on over the top expression, some can float on elation.

I have had people say praising the Lord has nothing to do with emotion, so being slain in the Spirit could never be emotional overload. Strange a shock can cause people to faint, to much happiness, yet having fellowship with the creator of the universe you are level as a pancake. People lie to themselves so easily. Yes we are all religious, but there is truth and reality in religion as well as hypocracy.

Speak for yourself. And keep laughing while you're at it.

 

[Utah]

The relationship is part of the religion though. I think people don't understand what religion is anymore. Not that I fault them considering there are more false religions and heresies in our time than I can count.

Perhaps it be beneficial here to posit the general definition of religion:

Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.


3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.


4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.


5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.


7. religions, Archaic. religious rites: painted priests performing religions deep into the night.

I appreciate what you share,GIS. Just remember, one day many, many years from now you may feel that crack of chest pain associated with a heart attack. If or when that happens, you won't be seeking anything religious but rather you'll be talking to God. Relationship!

 

[GodIsSalvation]

I appreciate what you share,GIS. Just remember, one day many, many years from now you may feel that crack of chest pain associated with a heart attack. If or when that happens, you won't be seeking anything religious but rather you'll be talking to God. Relationship!

That's still part of religion though. The relationship, and even the belief in the God of the Bible is part of religion. In this century because of the secularist stuff from the last two centuries people think there's a difference between religion and relationship or belief in God, but there's is no difference, it's even the same thing. Religion is just moreso the overall term for the belief systems, it includes pretty much everything from the relationship with the true God to even very small things like even the origins of the languages and writings and history itself.

 

[diggerbill]

Strange thing, there is on word for, what we consider religion, in Koine Greek or Hebrew. Last time I looked, the scriptures were not written in English or Latin.

 

[slave]

I agree, but as an aside, the creeds those religious leaders had in Jesus' day were man made traditions for the most part and not from God's Word.

Absolutely! Christianity is about responding to what Jesus wants us to do. The Pharisee law, or Pharisaical -laws, did not do this. Matthew 23:5 says, "Everything they do is done for people to see....." Matthew 23:3 also states, ".....they do not practice what they preach." And this despite being one of the most ritualist scrutinized oracles of belief doctrine out there. Of course we know why don't we? Original sin had made their earthen humanistic attempts useless.

The Pharisees were the most numerous and influential of the religious sects of Jesus' day. They were strict legalists and separatists, which is even the premise of their titles description. They stood for the rigid observance of the letter and forms of the law, and also for crazy detailed traditions, which many forget were added on top of any Scriptures.

And yet, there were some good men among the ranks I am sure.But for the most part they were known for their covetousness, self-righteousness, and hypocrisy.

Scribes were copyists of the Scriptures and because of their acquaintance with the Law they became recognized authorities. They were sometimes called "Lawyers" Scribes and Pharisees were the religious leaders of the Nation.

The incredible influence of the Pharisees among the masses cannot be mistaken. They were the most honored in Judaism at the time of Christ. Yet, Christ won the favor of the people because what He offered was real!

"But the great crowd of people went on hearing Him gladly."

The Words spoken by Jesus in Matt. 23 constitute the most bitter denunciation that ever fell from His lips. The enemies of Jesus could not answer Him a word, nor did anyone ever again dare to ask Him anything. The Pharisees were unrepentant, hypocritical, and more determined than ever to seek His destruction. In His final public discourse in the Temple, it was fitting that He should warn His disciples against the hypocrisy of these corrupt and wicked men.

Yet, even while He denounced their spiritual blindness, ritualism, and wickedness, He wept over Jerusalem, and ended His discourse with a lamentation, addressed to the beloved but doomed city which had sinned away it's day of opportunity.

This religion, indeed, had no positive authority, or useful authority as well, yesterday nor today..... To this end I solemnly agree!

 

[PeterJens]

I see the problem.
If I say I am talking religion, I mean I am talking about God and things related to Him.
Some would extend this to include buddihism, Hinduism, Islam, Animism etc

It is just one word used as a symbol.

Now for others here religion is anything to do with God which is outside the personal relationship with Jesus.

Now what you have got to understand, it is just a word being used to mean different things.
Many belief systems exist, some which make more sense than others.

As a follower of Jesus I have a particular view on everything, but it does not mean there are not other views and ways of expressing things.

So if you say, can following Jesus help? Yes ofcourse.

Can following any belief system be beneficial? Depends on the belief system. Some are very destructive while others are very neutral. So maybe or maybe not.

 

[Richie_2uk]

Aren't these all pretty much saying the same thing?

Perhaps, but aren't all religions saying the same thing too? putting people first instead of the true God? People want God to be second in most religions, they are forgetting that man was created by God, However, I understand alot is to do with the god that is ruling the earth right now, Satan! The devil is the creator of a lot of religions to confuse, or to deter people away from the truth. Religions tell people what to do to gain salvation, when the true God clearly tells us we dont have to do works or religious things to gain his salvation. God says clearly come as you are, and believe in me, Were in these religions bible it says you have to do all these types of ceremonies? or religious things to get to God? So aren't these religions more or less saying the same story? you have to look deep as to why they do it, I know it dont take a genious to know most of it are satans game plan.

 

[Richie_2uk]

The word Religion has two sides to it. One is a pretentious pompous piety; a living of creed instead of a relationship founded simply in Jesus Christ. But Religion can also have a doctrinal aspect to it too. As an example, when we say, "Are you dieting?" What we mean many times assumpively is that is are we trying to lose weight, but the facts could also mean, we are simply eating and this is the list; period. Because everything, and anything we do in way of eating can be concluded as the diet we are currently partaking in. "Diet simply means what we are eating, despite it's optional meanings in it. The same can be said about doctrine. We all have doctrine in our lives it's just what it is as a result of what we do.Doctrine in Religion is not the importance of God but it is in the walk with Jesus. To be Religious usually means to have that pompous piety, but it is also safe to say that our religion is also only the doctrines or creeds found in the walk in faith with the correct foundation in Christ Jesus. In that way, placing the relationship to Him and God first, the other then has value. If it is the other way around, and creed takes the front seat in our walk, it is one of the things Jesus was angry about the most. Misrepresentation of Himself, thru a false reality of righteousness.

But the true God is not a religion, its as simple as that. So why do some people stick up and take sides into believing religion is right? Its not, it clearly shows in the bible that God does not like it. As a saying goes, you probably hear it many times, but it goes like this, God does not want religious nuts, he want spiritual fruits. there is a lot of truth in that, even though thats not a quote from the bible.

 

[Richie_2uk]

Okay, I have to be the ignorant guy here and ask this.

Isn't Christianity a religion?

Christianity is not a religion, Christianity is to be Christ like, not mans like, Most religions are man made, there attempt to get right with God. So no, true Christianity is not a religion, because its by faith we are saved not by works of religion.

 

[diggerbill]

I base all of my beliefs on the scriptures, so I have to ask a couple of questions.
Where does this word "Religion" come from? Is there any word, in the scriptures, for religion?

If there is no scriptural basis for the word, this is not a Christian, spiritual discussion, but a theological debate.

 

[Richie_2uk]

I base all of my beliefs on the scriptures, so I have to ask a couple of questions.
Where does this word "Religion" come from? Is there any word, in the scriptures, for religion?

If there is no scriptural basis for the word, this is not a Christian, spiritual discussion, but a theological debate.

[h=3]Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.[/h][h=3]James 1:26-27
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.[/h][h=3]2 Timothy 3:5
Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.[/h]

 

[diggerbill]

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

James 1:26-27
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

2 Timothy 3:5
Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

OK..I understand where you are going and IMHO: you are on the right track. You posted 4 verses. James 1:26-27 have "Religion" or "Religious" 3 times. Those 3 words are based on the Greek Threskeia and are used in a positive and negative sense. Greek or Hebrew words translated into Latin and then into English, usually, leave thing open for multiple translations. One simple Greek or Hebrew word can take several sentences to explain because there are no English words for them, so most folks just believe what the teacher or pastor says. I prefer to do my own homework. After all, we are command to.

1 Thessalonians 5:20–22 (NASB95)
20 do not despise prophetic utterances.
21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;
22 abstain from every form of evil.


2 Timothy 2:15 (NASB95)

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.



Thrēskeia
is rare, occurring only four times in the nt and four times in the Septuagint. It designates ritual acts of worship that show commitment to God. Paul, while responding to the accusation that he disregards Jewish customs, defends himself in Acts 26:5 by saying that he is a Pharisee, the strictest party of the Jewish "religion" (thrēskeia). In other words, he engaged in the actions and way of life that manifested a commitment to the God of the Jews. Paul also warns the church in Colossae against the idolatrous worship (thrēskeia) of angels (Col 2:18). A similar meaning could be seen in Jas 1:26. Since in the Gentile world thrēskeia emphasized the performance of liturgical acts, James clarifies what the term means in the context of following God. If one is religious (thrēskos) in the Christian sense of the term, it must include a change in manner of life. The religion (thrēskeia) that God values shows a concern for others that reflects God’s own character (Jas 1:27).

Colossians 2:8 and 2 Timothy 3:5 are admonishment toward false philosophy.


The word "Religion" comes from the Latin "Relegere". There is no Latin or English word for the Greek "Threkeia". I have been trying to discern Religion for quite some time now. Mostly, the word is used in a negative connotation. Most times the word is used for "Worship" or acts of worship, as in James 1:27 toward orphans and widows. It is used in James 1:26 concerning bridling of the tongue and deceiving of the heart. In other words IMHO: Threkeia is used for "works" performed, either good or bad. Mostly bad.

There are 5 Greek words that have been translated into the Latin "Relegere" most are used in a negative connotation.

I really would like to hear some "Non-denominational" views of the word "Relegere" and "Threskeia"

 

[pottersclay]

Many have taken religion as a form of worship to God which would merit them above another this is where you have defiled it.
God came to man , man can't go to God.
So is religion a part of the Christian life? Absolutely but it is not to achieve merit from God.God is no respecter of persons. We are asked to visit the orphans and widows, to Fed the hungry, to dress the naked, to visit the sick and those in prison, to give a helping hand and to pray for one another.
God spirit is always pouring out and we as his children should show that in our walk.
It is keeping that balance in our walk that blesses us as much as them.
In going out going the practice of good works is good for the soul. The word of God is a living word found in ink on pages but are expressed through the spirit by the spirit.
It cannot add to your salvation and it is certainly not to be done in fear of losing your salvation but it is a balance in your walk with Christ.
We can know more of God by imitating than by just reading. A religion that is pure always remembering it is he that dwells in you.


,

 

[Bonnie77]

No, Christiananity is not a religion. Being a Christian is being Christ like. Religion is rule, doctrine and the like. I have been a Christian for over 60 years and I want more of Jesus in my life than every before. He walks with me and He talks with me through His word and His soft sweet voice. I seek Him daily and this morning he woke me up early to seek Him. Praise the Lord.
You had lots of good intelligent words to share and I agree with you almost 100%. I just know that I know Jesus is first, others are next and I must be last. Then Jesus will use me to glorify Him and life Him up so others can know Him too. blessings and love, Alaska Gramma or Bonnie77